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Young Black Men 21 Times More Likely Than Whites to Be Shot Dead by Police

Explain what? That the leading cause of death for black males is heart disease?

I'm going to assume that you prefer to zero in on the 15 - 35 year old age group wherein the leading causes of death are: homicide, unintentional injuries, suicide.

Among the same age group for white males it is: unintentional injuries, suicide, homicide.
 
1. Who is excusing the behavior of the three boys in that article?

Implicitly you are by atributing this mainly to racism. Only a moron of epic proportions would eliminate racism as a factor. But when racism is used to excuse the fact that for a reason unknown to me black men will kill each other with impunity over nothing, it scares the heck out of me because that means we will never solve this problem.

2. India doesn't have violent crime? Extremely high incidence of rapes, domestic violence, religious violence, thefts... I guess none of those count so long as the poor boys of India aren't knocking the mirrors off of cars?

Please don't twist what I say. India has way more poverty than the US. Therefore if it was all about poverty, they would have more violent crime than the US when in fact they have a lower homicide rate than the US by between 40-50%.
 
Implicitly you are by atributing this mainly to racism.
Uh... No.

Only a moron of epic proportions would eliminate racism as a factor.
what the fuck are you babbling about?

But when racism is used to excuse the fact that for a reason unknown to me black men will kill each other with impunity over nothing, it scares the heck out of me because that means we will never solve this problem.
again, who is excusing the behavior of the three boys in the article you posted?

2. India doesn't have violent crime? Extremely high incidence of rapes, domestic violence, religious violence, thefts... I guess none of those count so long as the poor boys of India aren't knocking the mirrors off of cars?

Please don't twist what I say. India has way more poverty than the US. Therefore if it was all about poverty, they would have more violent crime than the US when in fact they have a lower homicide rate than the US by between 40-50%.

You are twisting your own words to reach your pre-determined conclusion. "Homicide" is not the only type of "violent crime" and India far leads the world on violent crime such as rape and domestic violence. Maybe poverty is a causative factor, maybe cultural, religious or other factors are the cause. But the bottom line is that your dismissal of poverty as a causative factor in violent crime because you prefer to blame the color of someone's skin in the US is clearly faulty.

P.S. If you want to discuss just intentional homicide rates, the US has 4.7 murders per 100,000 people. India has 3.5 per 100,000. Compare to the UK with just 1 per 100,000 and other countries with even less. Sounds like India isn't so non-violent after all, and that certainly is not 40-50% less than the US

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate
 
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Uh... No.

Only a moron of epic proportions would eliminate racism as a factor.
what the fuck are you babbling about?

But when racism is used to excuse the fact that for a reason unknown to me black men will kill each other with impunity over nothing, it scares the heck out of me because that means we will never solve this problem.
again, who is excusing the behavior of the three boys in the article you posted?

2. India doesn't have violent crime? Extremely high incidence of rapes, domestic violence, religious violence, thefts... I guess none of those count so long as the poor boys of India aren't knocking the mirrors off of cars?

Please don't twist what I say. India has way more poverty than the US. Therefore if it was all about poverty, they would have more violent crime than the US when in fact they have a lower homicide rate than the US by between 40-50%.

You are twisting your own words to reach your pre-determined conclusion. "Homicide" is not the only type of "violent crime" and India far leads the world on violent crime such as rape and domestic violence. Maybe poverty is a causative factor, maybe cultural, religious or other factors are the cause. But the bottom line is that your dismissal of poverty as a causative factor in violent crime because you prefer to blame the color of someone's skin in the US is clearly faulty.

I'm not twisting anything. Black men between 10-35 are killing each other at epidemic levels. You can blame it on racism if you want or poverty if you want. You can blame it on the man in the moon.
 
I'm not twisting anything. Black men between 10-35 are killing each other at epidemic levels. You can blame it on racism if you want or poverty if you want. You can blame it on the man in the moon.

1. You have failed to demonstrate that "black men between 10-35 are killing each other". You have produced a chart that indicates young black men tend to die from homicides - not that "black men... are killing each other."
2. I'm not blaming anything on anything. You are the one trying to demonstrate... something... and failing miserably.
3. You are the claiming, erroneously, that there must be some reason other than poverty for relatively high homicide rates in the US, and then compared the US to India claiming that India has 40-50% fewer homicides - except you were wrong.

Maybe you should just state plainly what it is you are trying to say.
 
How much more frequently (in relation to their population size) do blacks either brandish a gun or attempt to shoot a police officer vs. whites? How much more often do they violently confront the police?

Blacks commit roughly 3x the rate of violent crimes as whites. I wonder how much more often they violently confront the police? That should be taken into account if you want to determine the actual difference race itself plays in police shootings.

So that you believe that the fact that blacks commit 3 times more violent crimes than whites explains why blacks are shot 21 times as often by the police? Just off the top of my head I would say that at the best it would drop the ratio to 21 ÷ 3 = 7* times the number of black violent criminals are shot by the police as white violent criminals, to follow your logic. Do you consider 700% to be in the margin of error of the survey?


* I discovered long ago not to assume that simple arithmetic is within the grasp of many of the contributors here, so I have to detail even simple calculations.

Where in the world did I say that their increased likelihood to confront police and commit violent crimes and data error explains the entire difference? You just made that up. All I said is you need to take it into account if you want to determine how much of a factor skin color is. The OP did not take these into account.
 
No one is saying that we should excuse this behavior because the boys have been discriminated against. We are saying the treatment by the police and the courts is different because of race, that different races are treated differently. In a word, because of racism.

Except the numbers don't support this notion.
And these numbers are ...
It's not racism.
Is your claim that racism doesn't exist, that police aren't racist, or that racism can not be proven? If none of these things, what exactly are you saying? And proving classism doesn't disprove racism.
Race is merely a proxy for socioeconomic status here.
And your proof is?
The poor fare much worse with the justice system.
Yeah. And?
 
I'm not twisting anything. Black men between 10-35 are killing each other at epidemic levels. You can blame it on racism if you want or poverty if you want. You can blame it on the man in the moon.

1. You have failed to demonstrate that "black men between 10-35 are killing each other". You have produced a chart that indicates young black men tend to die from homicides - not that "black men... are killing each other."
2. I'm not blaming anything on anything. You are the one trying to demonstrate... something... and failing miserably.
3. You are the claiming, erroneously, that there must be some reason other than poverty for relatively high homicide rates in the US, and then compared the US to India claiming that India has 40-50% fewer homicides - except you were wrong.

Maybe you should just state plainly what it is you are trying to say.

Then let the Justice Department do it for me:

http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/bvvc.pdf

In 2005 most homicides involving one victim and one
offender were intraracial. About 93% of black homicide victims and 85% of white victims in single victim and single
offender homicides were murdered by someone of their
race. Women were the offenders in about 10% of single
victim and single offender homicides of both blacks and whites.

Since black men between 18-35 have a much higher of homicide and 93% of the victims were killed by blacks, the real problem is not police killing black men, it's black men killing each other.
 
Ah, the "What about black on black crime" misdirect.

You can easily find out about the litany of anti-violence work done in black neighborhoods with a Google search, but we're discussing misbehavior of law enforcement in this thread.
 
1. You have failed to demonstrate that "black men between 10-35 are killing each other". You have produced a chart that indicates young black men tend to die from homicides - not that "black men... are killing each other."
2. I'm not blaming anything on anything. You are the one trying to demonstrate... something... and failing miserably.
3. You are the claiming, erroneously, that there must be some reason other than poverty for relatively high homicide rates in the US, and then compared the US to India claiming that India has 40-50% fewer homicides - except you were wrong.

Maybe you should just state plainly what it is you are trying to say.

Then let the Justice Department do it for me:

http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/bvvc.pdf

In 2005 most homicides involving one victim and one
offender were intraracial. About 93% of black homicide victims and 85% of white victims in single victim and single
offender homicides were murdered by someone of their
race. Women were the offenders in about 10% of single
victim and single offender homicides of both blacks and whites.

Since black men between 18-35 have a much higher of homicide and 93% of the victims were killed by blacks, the real problem is not police killing black men, it's black men killing each other.

Which has what to do with Young Black Men 21 Times More Likely Than Whites to Be Shot Dead by Police?

More chickens in America are killed by people than by hawks, but if a chicken hawk is killing your dozen or so chickens you keep in your back yard so you can have fresh eggs, you still have a problem with a hawk.
 
The comparisons with India prompts me to ask two hypothetical questions:
Suppose the statistics showed that Americans of Indian origin were significantly more likely to be shot, arrested or imprisoned than whites, what would you say the most likely reason was?
Suppose the statistics showed that Americans of Indian origin were significantly less likely to be shot, arrested or imprisoned than whites, what would you say the most likely reason was?
 
1. You have failed to demonstrate that "black men between 10-35 are killing each other". You have produced a chart that indicates young black men tend to die from homicides - not that "black men... are killing each other."
2. I'm not blaming anything on anything. You are the one trying to demonstrate... something... and failing miserably.
3. You are the claiming, erroneously, that there must be some reason other than poverty for relatively high homicide rates in the US, and then compared the US to India claiming that India has 40-50% fewer homicides - except you were wrong.

Maybe you should just state plainly what it is you are trying to say.

Then let the Justice Department do it for me:

http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/bvvc.pdf

In 2005 most homicides involving one victim and one
offender were intraracial. About 93% of black homicide victims and 85% of white victims in single victim and single
offender homicides were murdered by someone of their
race. Women were the offenders in about 10% of single
victim and single offender homicides of both blacks and whites.

Since black men between 18-35 have a much higher of homicide and 93% of the victims were killed by blacks, the real problem is not police killing black men, it's black men killing each other.

As to the bolding, the same applies to white men between the same ages, plus you are shifting goalposts again, so I still don't get your point.

You start by posting some random article about three black youths (who, btw, were all under 18 so what the heck did they have to do with your "18-35" statistic). You write, in that post,
When you excuse this kind of behavior because they have been discriminated against you condemn these people to a lifetime of misery. There is a problem in the black community that the black community must address.
I will repeat my original question: WHO is excusing the behavior of those three random youths?

Who are "these people"? As I also noted earlier, by YOUR OWN DATA, the leading killer of black males is heart disease (same as for white males). Is this the problem you think needs to be addressed in the black community?

And in any case, what does this have to do with the fact that a young black male is 21 times more likely to be shot by police than young white males?

You also threw in this random unsupported claim which, even if true, still has nothing whatsoever to do with the fact that young black men are 21 times more likely to be shot dead by police than are their white male contemporaries.

There is more poverty in India than in the US black community and they don't have the violent crime.
<<<<<-------- but it was actually thoroughly refuted

So then you throw out some random links without explanation.

As I said above, your first link shows that the number 1 killer of black males is heart disease.

Your second link says:

The report also stated that 85 percent of white victims in single-victim and single-offender homicides were murdered by someone of their race. So that means the majority of black and white people are murdered by someone of their own race. In 2005, there were 8,017 white homicide victims.
which is exactly what I also concluded

You can't account for this by cops shooting black males. This is way deeper than racism. There is a problem in the black community.
Who said that black on black homicide or white on white homicide accounts for cops shooting black males 21 times more often than white males? No one. Which is why I keep asking you exactly what it is you are trying to say.

Then there was this doozy on a nonsensical comment:
Implicitly you are by atributing this mainly to racism. Only a moron of epic proportions would eliminate racism as a factor. But when racism is used to excuse the fact that for a reason unknown to me black men will kill each other with impunity over nothing, it scares the heck out of me because that means we will never solve this problem.
though I think the bolded is where you start to say what you actually mean.

India has way more poverty than the US. Therefore if it was all about poverty, they would have more violent crime than the US when in fact they have a lower homicide rate than the US by between 40-50%.
<<<<<< ---------------- thoroughly refuted and a derail anyway

So now that we have completely eliminated your weird India comparison, you are still stuck on:
Since black men between 18-35 have a much higher of homicide and 93% of the victims were killed by blacks, the real problem is not police killing black men, it's black men killing each other.

Since white men between 18-35 have a much higher rate of homicide and 85% of the victims were killed by whites, the real problem is not police killing white men, it's white men killing each other. Therefore, in the world according to HaRaYah, we should just ignore any and all police misconduct? Is this your point?
 
Explain what? That the leading cause of death for black males is heart disease?

I'm going to assume that you prefer to zero in on the 15 - 35 year old age group wherein the leading causes of death are: homicide, unintentional injuries, suicide.

Among the same age group for white males it is: unintentional injuries, suicide, homicide.

He didn't do a good job of making his point. Compare his first link to this:

http://www.cdc.gov/men/lcod/2010/LCOD_WHITEmen2010.pdf
 
Explain what? That the leading cause of death for black males is heart disease?

I'm going to assume that you prefer to zero in on the 15 - 35 year old age group wherein the leading causes of death are: homicide, unintentional injuries, suicide.

Among the same age group for white males it is: unintentional injuries, suicide, homicide.

He didn't do a good job of making his point. Compare his first link to this:

http://www.cdc.gov/men/lcod/2010/LCOD_WHITEmen2010.pdf

And I will repeat:

Explain what? That the leading cause of death for black and white males is heart disease?

I'm going to assume that you prefer to zero in on the 15 - 35 year old age group for black males wherein the leading causes of death are: homicide, unintentional injuries, suicide.

Among the same age group for white males it is: unintentional injuries, suicide, homicide.

Those three categories are roughly 75% for both black and white males between the ages of 15 - 35

You have not added any understanding to whatever it is that HaRaAYah is not saying, nor have you explained what any of it has to do with police killing black males at 21 times the rate they kill white males.
 
It is bad that police are paid by tax payers and young black have to die at their hands.
They don't have to die. That's the point.

Decisions are made that and actions are taken that lead to deaths that don't have to happen if other decisions are made and other actions taken.
More people die in the US of heart attacks than die of food poisoning. Does this make food poisoning unimportant or an ok thing?

So what do homicide rates among civilians within a given demographic have to do with Young Black Men 21 Times More Likely Than Whites to Be Shot Dead by Police
 
He didn't do a good job of making his point. Compare his first link to this:

http://www.cdc.gov/men/lcod/2010/LCOD_WHITEmen2010.pdf

And I will repeat:

Explain what? That the leading cause of death for black and white males is heart disease?

I'm going to assume that you prefer to zero in on the 15 - 35 year old age group for black males wherein the leading causes of death are: homicide, unintentional injuries, suicide.

Among the same age group for white males it is: unintentional injuries, suicide, homicide.

Those three categories are roughly 75% for both black and white males between the ages of 15 - 35

You have not added any understanding to whatever it is that HaRaAYah is not saying, nor have you explained what any of it has to do with police killing black males at 21 times the rate they kill white males.

I think the difference between homicide being in the #1 slot vs the #3 slot is quite relevant.
 
And I will repeat:

Explain what? That the leading cause of death for black and white males is heart disease?

I'm going to assume that you prefer to zero in on the 15 - 35 year old age group for black males wherein the leading causes of death are: homicide, unintentional injuries, suicide.

Among the same age group for white males it is: unintentional injuries, suicide, homicide.

Those three categories are roughly 75% for both black and white males between the ages of 15 - 35

You have not added any understanding to whatever it is that HaRaAYah is not saying, nor have you explained what any of it has to do with police killing black males at 21 times the rate they kill white males.

I think the difference between homicide being in the #1 slot vs the #3 slot is quite relevant.

I think it's relevant, too., but how much of that is due to the fact that black men are 21 times more likely to be shot by the police? If the cops weren't shooting blacks so frequently, would the homicide rates among 15-35 year old black males more closely resemble that of their white peers?
 
You assume that black folk more frequently guns? Why?
How much more often do they violently confront the police?
You assume black folk more violently confront police? Why?
Blacks commit roughly 3x the rate of violent crimes as whites.
Commit or are arrested and/or convicted?
I wonder how much more often they violently confront the police?
You assume they do? Why?
That should be taken into account if you want to determine the actual difference race itself plays in police shootings.

What facts do you have to say black folk are doing anything more so that white folks?

I'm not assuming anything. The data shows they are charged with crimes at roughly 3x the rate, and gun crimes at 5x the rate, compared to whites. That's certainly going to factor into the number of police shootings encountered, will it not?
 
I think the difference between homicide being in the #1 slot vs the #3 slot is quite relevant.

I think it's relevant, too., but how much of that is due to the fact that black men are 21 times more likely to be shot by the police? If the cops weren't shooting blacks so frequently, would the homicide rates among 15-35 year old black males more closely resemble that of their white peers?

The effect isn't very significant. The data is shown in the OP: 31.17 per million over 3 years, which is about 1 per 100,000 each year (15-19 year olds). The homicide rate is 52 per 100,000 for that same group, meaning that about 1 out of 52 black teen killings are at the hands of police. Something worth talking about, but relatively small in comparison to other causes (98% of black teen killings are from non-law enforcement criminals who murder or kill them).

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr62/nvsr62_06.pdf p. 34
 
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