Young White Men Without College Are Dropping Out Of Work Force

[Tigers!]

Waiting for someone to chime in and say they're lazy and want to live off government cheese.

well go on. say it

 

[laughing dog]

Not in the countries that export manufacturing where the governent is pro-union (Germany).

Germany's trade union membership has been declining since at least 1960.

Trade Union Dataset

OECD.Stat enables users to search for and extract data from across OECD’s many databases.

stats.oecd.org

I stand corrected. So I guess Germany is also trying to join the ranks of the US of high wealth disparity and shrinking middle class.

Germany isn't 'trying' to do anything. The majority of German workers simply do not see the value in joining a union.

When I first started full time work, the induction session in my workplace included dedicated time for a union representative to talk to us. I was open to the idea of joining the union - until I saw the size of the membership fees. I made the decision that I did not want to pay that amount of money to join the union. The value prospect was not there.

But you were willing to take the pay and benefits the union fought for you to get.

There are plenty of those types of free riders. . I have colleagues who bad mouth their union and refuse to join, but do not refuse any of the benefits that union earned for those employees.

 

[laughing dog]

And yet, nobody wants the unions. Despite unionized workers do much better.

The workers certainly want unions. It is the consumers who want something for nothing from China and other 3rd world countries who don't want unions in the US. And it is also our federal government (other than Trump) who will not provide tariff protections in order to keep those unions.

You do realize tariffs aren't paid by the country the tariffs are used against, right?

Tell us again how you don't support Trump. I need a good laugh.

The tariffs are the only thing that will work for unions, labor, and a middle class to survive in the US..
knowing this does not mean you have to be a Trump lover.

No, it means one is narrow-minded thinker. While it is possible for tariffs (in the short run) to help workers - unionized or not - it is not the only thing that will work. What helps workers - unionized or not - in the longer run is better productivity, better education/training, and better labor laws.

 

[Tigers!]

Hi I paid Child support! Can confirm. When I finished I overpaid and the government had to cut me a check. My wife thought me a spectacle because I wanted to frame it. I'll share a picture of it after scrubbing personal information. I'm so proud of myself that I paid all my dues and kept a relationship with my daughter the whole time. Can't say I'm proud to have to had separated from her momma but that bitch was crazy.

View attachment 41458

I showed it off every chance I got. I paid for 17 years didn't miss a payment and was elated to get a check from them for once. lol

Congratulations on maintaining the relationship with your daughter. You are an most estimable fellow.

 

[Metaphor]

Not in the countries that export manufacturing where the governent is pro-union (Germany).

Germany's trade union membership has been declining since at least 1960.

Trade Union Dataset

OECD.Stat enables users to search for and extract data from across OECD’s many databases.

stats.oecd.org

I stand corrected. So I guess Germany is also trying to join the ranks of the US of high wealth disparity and shrinking middle class.

Germany isn't 'trying' to do anything. The majority of German workers simply do not see the value in joining a union.

When I first started full time work, the induction session in my workplace included dedicated time for a union representative to talk to us. I was open to the idea of joining the union - until I saw the size of the membership fees. I made the decision that I did not want to pay that amount of money to join the union. The value prospect was not there.

But you were willing to take the pay and benefits the union fought for you to get.

There are plenty of those types of free riders. . I have colleagues who bad mouth their union and refuse to join, but do not refuse any of the benefits that union earned for those employees.

How shocking that you live in a country where 90% of the workforce are free riders. It's like a reverse ant colony.

 

[ZiprHead]

And yet, nobody wants the unions. Despite unionized workers do much better.

The workers certainly want unions. It is the consumers who want something for nothing from China and other 3rd world countries who don't want unions in the US. And it is also our federal government (other than Trump) who will not provide tariff protections in order to keep those unions.

You do realize tariffs aren't paid by the country the tariffs are used against, right?

Tell us again how you don't support Trump. I need a good laugh.

The tariffs are the only thing that will work for unions, labor, and a middle class to survive in the US..
knowing this does not mean you have to be a Trump lover.

No, it means one is narrow-minded thinker. While it is possible for tariffs (in the short run) to help workers - unionized or not - it is not the only thing that will work. What helps workers - unionized or not - in the longer run is better productivity, better education/training, and better labor laws.

And what happens to US workers in industry that exports their product to nations that impose bigger tariffs on US made goods?

 

[laughing dog]

And yet, nobody wants the unions. Despite unionized workers do much better.

The workers certainly want unions. It is the consumers who want something for nothing from China and other 3rd world countries who don't want unions in the US. And it is also our federal government (other than Trump) who will not provide tariff protections in order to keep those unions.

You do realize tariffs aren't paid by the country the tariffs are used against, right?

Tell us again how you don't support Trump. I need a good laugh.

The tariffs are the only thing that will work for unions, labor, and a middle class to survive in the US..
knowing this does not mean you have to be a Trump lover.

No, it means one is narrow-minded thinker. While it is possible for tariffs (in the short run) to help workers - unionized or not - it is not the only thing that will work. What helps workers - unionized or not - in the longer run is better productivity, better education/training, and better labor laws.

And what happens to US workers in industry that exports their product to nations that impose bigger tariffs on US made goods?

Depends on a number of factors. I am not in favor of protective tariffs as a general rule.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Why bother, when the government will pay for your kids?

I believe welfare systems in most all states requires mothers trying to get welfare must name the father and the government will go after the father to reduce the welfare amount the government pays.

You'd be wrong.
Tom

Do you have some verification of that?

These Single Moms Are Forced to Choose: Reveal Their Sexual Histories or Forfeit Welfare

Almost every parent who applies for federal welfare assistance, who in a large majority of cases is a single mother, must divulge everything she knows about the biological father of her children.

imprintnews.org

Identifying Fathers Called Crucial to Welfare Reform

Opening a major new front in efforts to discourage out-of-wedlock births and increase collection of child support, the Administration's welfare reform task force will urge that states be required to identify the fathers of virtually all children born outside of marriage.

www.latimes.com

These Single Moms Are Forced to Choose: Reveal Their Sexual Histories or Forfeit Welfare

Women who apply for welfare often have to identify who fathered their children and when they got pregnant, among other deeply personal details. State governments use that information to pursue child support from the dads — and then pocket the money.

www.propublica.org

Which becomes very unfair when she legitimately doesn't know.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The tariffs are the only thing that will work for unions, labor, and a middle class to survive in the US..
knowing this does not mean you have to be a Trump lover.

No, it means one is narrow-minded thinker. While it is possible for tariffs (in the short run) to help workers - unionized or not - it is not the only thing that will work. What helps workers - unionized or not - in the longer run is better productivity, better education/training, and better labor laws.

Neither tariffs nor unions work.

Unions work for a while but most union companies end up destroyed, eaten by non-union competitors. Pretty much the only unions you see left are situations where there's a big reason preventing competition.

And tariffs end up with a trade war--and in trade wars everyone loses. Want to solve the competition from cheap China goods problem? Build nuke plants, quit importing oil. The dollar will rise, the problem goes away without tariffs. In the long run the value of imports will balance with the value of exports.

 

[laughing dog]

The tariffs are the only thing that will work for unions, labor, and a middle class to survive in the US..
knowing this does not mean you have to be a Trump lover.

No, it means one is narrow-minded thinker. While it is possible for tariffs (in the short run) to help workers - unionized or not - it is not the only thing that will work. What helps workers - unionized or not - in the longer run is better productivity, better education/training, and better labor laws.

Neither tariffs nor unions work.

Unions work for a while but most union companies end up destroyed, eaten by non-union competitors. Pretty much the only unions you see left are situations where there's a big reason preventing competition.

You persist in your fairy tales.

And tariffs end up with a trade war--and in trade wars everyone loses.

While I am not in favor of tariffs in general, whether or not tariffs end up with a trade war is an empirical question. Whether or not a trade war ensues depends on a variety of factors. The USA has had tariffs on hundreds of products for centuries but not centuries of trade wars.

Want to solve the competition from cheap China goods problem? Build nuke plants, quit importing oil. The dollar will rise, the problem goes away without tariffs. In the long run the value of imports will balance with the value of exports.

 

[bilby]

Unions work for a while but most union companies end up destroyed, eaten by non-union competitors. Pretty much the only unions you see left are situations where there's a big reason preventing competition.

You misspelled "Shut down by right wing ideological governments at the behest of non-union businesses who don't want to be forced into decent pay or conditions".

It's easy to be more profitable than your competitors if you're allowed to pay lower wages.

And unions are doing fine in places such as the EU and Australasia where right-wing governments didn't succeed in destroying them.

Americans have been taught to disdain unionisation, but in my experience they have very strange and idiosyncratic opinions of what unions are, or do. US labor unions never had the position in society that European ones do, and Americans are always happy to dismiss as unworkable that which has not been made to work in the USA.

Unions don't work in exactly the same way the universal healthcare doesn't work - it works everywhere except America, where it doesn't work only because the right wing have persuaded people to believe that it cannot work.

 

[Metaphor]

Unions work for a while but most union companies end up destroyed, eaten by non-union competitors. Pretty much the only unions you see left are situations where there's a big reason preventing competition.

You misspelled "Shut down by right wing ideological governments at the behest of non-union businesses who don't want to be forced into decent pay or conditions".

It's easy to be more profitable than your competitors if you're allowed to pay lower wages.

And unions are doing fine in places such as the EU and Australasia where right-wing governments didn't succeed in destroying them.

Union membership in Australia is at all time lows, and has been falling since at least the 1960s.

Americans have been taught to disdain unionisation, but in my experience they have very strange and idiosyncratic opinions of what unions are, or do. US labor unions never had the position in society that European ones do, and Americans are always happy to dismiss as unworkable that which has not been made to work in the USA.

Unions don't work in exactly the same way the universal healthcare doesn't work - it works everywhere except America, where it doesn't work only because the right wing have persuaded people to believe that it cannot work.

Union membership has declined since the 1960s in countries all over the world.

 

[ZiprHead]

Unions work for a while but most union companies end up destroyed, eaten by non-union competitors. Pretty much the only unions you see left are situations where there's a big reason preventing competition.

You misspelled "Shut down by right wing ideological governments at the behest of non-union businesses who don't want to be forced into decent pay or conditions".

It's easy to be more profitable than your competitors if you're allowed to pay lower wages.

And unions are doing fine in places such as the EU and Australasia where right-wing governments didn't succeed in destroying them.

Union membership in Australia is at all time lows, and has been falling since at least the 1960s.

Americans have been taught to disdain unionisation, but in my experience they have very strange and idiosyncratic opinions of what unions are, or do. US labor unions never had the position in society that European ones do, and Americans are always happy to dismiss as unworkable that which has not been made to work in the USA.

Unions don't work in exactly the same way the universal healthcare doesn't work - it works everywhere except America, where it doesn't work only because the right wing have persuaded people to believe that it cannot work.

Union membership has declined since the 1960s in countries all over the world.

What's Australia's minimum wage and who lobbied to get it? Hint: it starts with an L and a U.

 

[Metaphor]

Unions work for a while but most union companies end up destroyed, eaten by non-union competitors. Pretty much the only unions you see left are situations where there's a big reason preventing competition.

You misspelled "Shut down by right wing ideological governments at the behest of non-union businesses who don't want to be forced into decent pay or conditions".

It's easy to be more profitable than your competitors if you're allowed to pay lower wages.

And unions are doing fine in places such as the EU and Australasia where right-wing governments didn't succeed in destroying them.

Union membership in Australia is at all time lows, and has been falling since at least the 1960s.

Americans have been taught to disdain unionisation, but in my experience they have very strange and idiosyncratic opinions of what unions are, or do. US labor unions never had the position in society that European ones do, and Americans are always happy to dismiss as unworkable that which has not been made to work in the USA.

Unions don't work in exactly the same way the universal healthcare doesn't work - it works everywhere except America, where it doesn't work only because the right wing have persuaded people to believe that it cannot work.

Union membership has declined since the 1960s in countries all over the world.

What's Australia's minimum wage and who lobbied to get it? Hint: it starts with an L and a U.

I have zero idea how you think your question somehow addresses or refutes what I've written.

However, the idea of an enforced minimum wage in Australia (before federation) arose from the Harvester judgment.

 

[ZiprHead]

Unions work for a while but most union companies end up destroyed, eaten by non-union competitors. Pretty much the only unions you see left are situations where there's a big reason preventing competition.

You misspelled "Shut down by right wing ideological governments at the behest of non-union businesses who don't want to be forced into decent pay or conditions".

It's easy to be more profitable than your competitors if you're allowed to pay lower wages.

And unions are doing fine in places such as the EU and Australasia where right-wing governments didn't succeed in destroying them.

Union membership in Australia is at all time lows, and has been falling since at least the 1960s.

Americans have been taught to disdain unionisation, but in my experience they have very strange and idiosyncratic opinions of what unions are, or do. US labor unions never had the position in society that European ones do, and Americans are always happy to dismiss as unworkable that which has not been made to work in the USA.

Unions don't work in exactly the same way the universal healthcare doesn't work - it works everywhere except America, where it doesn't work only because the right wing have persuaded people to believe that it cannot work.

Union membership has declined since the 1960s in countries all over the world.

What's Australia's minimum wage and who lobbied to get it? Hint: it starts with an L and a U.

I have zero idea how you think your question somehow addresses or refutes what I've written.

I think if you think about it hard enough you could figure it out. Get back to me if you need some help.

However, the idea of an enforced minimum wage in Australia (before federation) arose from the Harvester judgment.

So the minimum wage was established in AU about a hundred twenty years ago and that explains absolutely everything about Australia's minimum wage today. Got it. Thanks.

 

[Metaphor]

Unions work for a while but most union companies end up destroyed, eaten by non-union competitors. Pretty much the only unions you see left are situations where there's a big reason preventing competition.

You misspelled "Shut down by right wing ideological governments at the behest of non-union businesses who don't want to be forced into decent pay or conditions".

It's easy to be more profitable than your competitors if you're allowed to pay lower wages.

And unions are doing fine in places such as the EU and Australasia where right-wing governments didn't succeed in destroying them.

Union membership in Australia is at all time lows, and has been falling since at least the 1960s.

Americans have been taught to disdain unionisation, but in my experience they have very strange and idiosyncratic opinions of what unions are, or do. US labor unions never had the position in society that European ones do, and Americans are always happy to dismiss as unworkable that which has not been made to work in the USA.

Unions don't work in exactly the same way the universal healthcare doesn't work - it works everywhere except America, where it doesn't work only because the right wing have persuaded people to believe that it cannot work.

Union membership has declined since the 1960s in countries all over the world.

What's Australia's minimum wage and who lobbied to get it? Hint: it starts with an L and a U.

I have zero idea how you think your question somehow addresses or refutes what I've written.

I think if you think about it hard enough you could figure it out. Get back to me if you need some help.

I've thought about it and I can't figure it out. So I will appeal to you again. What does what you've written somehow inform, address, rebut, what you quoted me saying?

However, the idea of an enforced minimum wage in Australia (before federation) arose from the Harvester judgment.

So the minimum wage was established in AU about a hundred twenty years ago and that explains absolutely everything about Australia's minimum wage today. Got it. Thanks.

Were you born constructing strawmen or did you take lessons?

 

[ZiprHead]

Union membership has declined since the 1960s in countries all over the world.

What's Australia's minimum wage and who lobbied to get it? Hint: it starts with an L and a U.

I have zero idea how you think your question somehow addresses or refutes what I've written.

I think if you think about it hard enough you could figure it out. Get back to me if you need some help.

I've thought about it and I can't figure it out. So I will appeal to you again. What does what you've written somehow inform, address, rebut, what you quoted me saying?

The minimum wage is quite large in Australia, and western Europe. Why? because left leaning Politicians and labor unions lobbied and ran campaigns. They want all workers to have what union membership gets. Good pay, good benefits, etc. Basically unions in Australia and Europe are making themselves redundant. That's a good thing for everyone.

However, the idea of an enforced minimum wage in Australia (before federation) arose from the Harvester judgment.

So the minimum wage was established in AU about a hundred twenty years ago and that explains absolutely everything about Australia's minimum wage today. Got it. Thanks.

Were you born constructing strawmen or did you take lessons?

I learned it from the best, you.

 

[Metaphor]

Union membership has declined since the 1960s in countries all over the world.

What's Australia's minimum wage and who lobbied to get it? Hint: it starts with an L and a U.

I have zero idea how you think your question somehow addresses or refutes what I've written.

I think if you think about it hard enough you could figure it out. Get back to me if you need some help.

I've thought about it and I can't figure it out. So I will appeal to you again. What does what you've written somehow inform, address, rebut, what you quoted me saying?

The minimum wage is quite large in Australia, and western Europe. Why? because left leaning Politicians and labor unions lobbied and ran campaigns. They want all workers to have what union membership gets. Good pay, good benefits, etc. Basically unions in Australia and Europe are making themselves redundant. That's a good thing for everyone.

So, you agree there is no compelling reason for the majority of workers to join unions today, and you understand why I made the decision that the majority of the working population in each and every industry makes.

However, the idea of an enforced minimum wage in Australia (before federation) arose from the Harvester judgment.

So the minimum wage was established in AU about a hundred twenty years ago and that explains absolutely everything about Australia's minimum wage today. Got it. Thanks.

Were you born constructing strawmen or did you take lessons?

I learned it from the best, you.

The day the student surpasses the teacher.

 

[Toni]

Union membership has declined since the 1960s in countries all over the world.

What's Australia's minimum wage and who lobbied to get it? Hint: it starts with an L and a U.

I have zero idea how you think your question somehow addresses or refutes what I've written.

I think if you think about it hard enough you could figure it out. Get back to me if you need some help.

I've thought about it and I can't figure it out. So I will appeal to you again. What does what you've written somehow inform, address, rebut, what you quoted me saying?

The minimum wage is quite large in Australia, and western Europe. Why? because left leaning Politicians and labor unions lobbied and ran campaigns. They want all workers to have what union membership gets. Good pay, good benefits, etc. Basically unions in Australia and Europe are making themselves redundant. That's a good thing for everyone.

So, you agree there is no compelling reason for the majority of workers to join unions today, and you understand why I made the decision that the majority of the working population in each and every industry makes.

However, the idea of an enforced minimum wage in Australia (before federation) arose from the Harvester judgment.

So the minimum wage was established in AU about a hundred twenty years ago and that explains absolutely everything about Australia's minimum wage today. Got it. Thanks.

Were you born constructing strawmen or did you take lessons?

I learned it from the best, you.

The day the student surpasses the teacher.

Australia and Western Europe are not the entire planet. While unions in the US have done much to secure workplace safety, establishing a workweek, securing wages and benefits, there has been a concerted campaign to discredit unions in the US and to drive down union membership. The results have been a stagnant minimum wage since 2009, despite increase in COLA of at least 50% since 2009. Housing, health care and education costs have very far surpassed the general rate of inflation, making it more and more difficult for families in the US to meet expenses.

 

[Metaphor]

Union membership has declined since the 1960s in countries all over the world.

What's Australia's minimum wage and who lobbied to get it? Hint: it starts with an L and a U.

I have zero idea how you think your question somehow addresses or refutes what I've written.

I think if you think about it hard enough you could figure it out. Get back to me if you need some help.

I've thought about it and I can't figure it out. So I will appeal to you again. What does what you've written somehow inform, address, rebut, what you quoted me saying?

The minimum wage is quite large in Australia, and western Europe. Why? because left leaning Politicians and labor unions lobbied and ran campaigns. They want all workers to have what union membership gets. Good pay, good benefits, etc. Basically unions in Australia and Europe are making themselves redundant. That's a good thing for everyone.

So, you agree there is no compelling reason for the majority of workers to join unions today, and you understand why I made the decision that the majority of the working population in each and every industry makes.

However, the idea of an enforced minimum wage in Australia (before federation) arose from the Harvester judgment.

So the minimum wage was established in AU about a hundred twenty years ago and that explains absolutely everything about Australia's minimum wage today. Got it. Thanks.

Were you born constructing strawmen or did you take lessons?

I learned it from the best, you.

The day the student surpasses the teacher.

Australia and Western Europe are not the entire planet. While unions in the US have done much to secure workplace safety, establishing a workweek, securing wages and benefits, there has been a concerted campaign to discredit unions in the US and to drive down union membership. The results have been a stagnant minimum wage since 2009, despite increase in COLA of at least 50% since 2009. Housing, health care and education costs have very far surpassed the general rate of inflation, making it more and more difficult for families in the US to meet expenses.

The federal minimum wage in the USA is set by the Fair Labor Standards Act, not unions.

Union membership in the US has been steadily decaying since at least 1960. Blaming a stagnant federal wage on either lower union membership or a conspiracy to reduce union membership does not make sense.