How should west respond to potential (likely) Russian invasion of Ukraine?

[Loren Pechtel]

Show me one atrocity by Ukrainian army against civilians? Just to gauge what you consider to be a level of evidence required for something to be a "fact" (or "an atrocity").

Last time I had it shown, moderators deleted it.
I mean ukrainians are not even denying it, they were proud of killing of women.

Link an article about it rather than post gruesome pictures.

 

[Elixir]

Seriously Loren - you don’t think Barbos is doing anything more than throwing shit at the wall here, do you?
I must admit he is a capable operative - at least able to derail 2-3 threads simultaneously with his irresistibly ridiculous softball assertions.

 

[Harry Bosch]

Seriously Loren - you don’t think Barbos is doing anything more than throwing shit at the wall here, do you?
I must admit he is a capable operative - at least able to derail 2-3 threads simultaneously with his irresistibly ridiculous softball assertions.

Funny! Outside of any threads regarding Russia, he's actually a great poster. I agree with a lot of his takes. I sometimes wonder how much of Russian common thought he represents. If it's a majority, we're in deep trouble. He really believes that Nazi allegations. He really believes that Nato wants to conquer Russia.

 

[Elixir]

Funny! Outside of any threads regarding Russia, he's actually a great poster.

I agree.

I sometimes wonder how much of Russian common thought he represents

I wonder about a varying sincerity level … the usual technique involves establishing oneself as a credible actor, before initiating a subtle messaging effort that becomes more overt over time.

 

[barbos]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KiwiTtuWA6M
Summary of the videos:
Ukrainiann nazis used Tochka-U in Kramatorsk on their own people (not really, cause it's East Ukraine and people are pro-russian). Russia got rid of these outdated missiles in June 2021.

Next video shows Ukrainian government soldier wearing WW2 nazi SS insignia. Specifically SS division called Galizien. Video is from "The Sun"
And BBC I understand admitted that nazis are good and very useful for democracy.
So no reason to be ashamed of nazis.


Next
Analysis of Bucha incident. There is absolutely no doubt Ukrainians are behinnd it.
1. Russians declare leaving and then leave Bucha
2. Ukrainians enter Bucha
3. Ukrainians officials proclaim hunting down people who were cooperating with russians
4. Bucha Mayor (pro-nazi piece of shit) smiles and says everything is good in Bucha and Ukrainian army won.
5. 4 days (!!!) after russians left and ukrainians (Azov batallion, which is according to you own fucking government is a neo-nazi organization) entered, This story about bodies on streets appears in western press.
6. Bodies have hands tied with white bands (white arm-bands are being used by pro-russian civilians)
7. Russia has absolutely nothing to gain by murdering civilians.



You decide.

You think we didn't track the missile from launch to impact?!?! Are you forgetting the airborne radar aircraft over Poland?

Damn, you got me!
...
Wait a moment. What prevents your government from lying, that's right, nothing.
And I know for a fact that your government is lying.
Fucking ukronazis posted a picture with a serial number which says it's from the same batch the previous tochkas they used.
Position of the detached booster unequivocally points to launch site which is to the north west of the hit, there were no russians there, let alone with this outdated crap.

Sorry dude, but your government is lying to you non stop. Everything is a lie.
Ukrainian nazis are not winning despite all your support. They are losing and they are losing badly now.
Funny, just saw some general talking about S-300 Ukrainians just got (from Slovakia/USA). Well, guess what? it's been destroyed already

 

[barbos]

British pro-russian journalist versus 6 ukronazis and wins!

 

[barbos]

How many streets are named after Nazis?

One is way too many.

And for some reason I still believe the Russian reaction to a street being named after a Nazi to be a tad excessive.

The USA has a major manufacturer named for a Nazi.

Henry Ford was a Nazi. An anti-Jewish industrialist.
Adolf Hitler had a framed portrait of Ford hanging in his office.

And it wasn't just him, plenty of industrialists across Christendom supported Hitler and his Nazi party throughout the 30s and early 40s. Hitler was extremely popular, that's why he got away with so much.
Tom

Did Henry Ford take part in actual killing of poles, jews and russians?
Now, If you ask me, the Wernher von Braun is better example, but even he is known for something else besides being a nazi. In Germany itself lots of low level WW2 nazis ended up having a careers in BundesWehr after the war, that's true too.
Hell, some germans rocket scientists ended up in USSR and worked for some time on russian rocket program, not for long though.

But people we are talking about here are war criminals who were used by said german nazis to murder jews, belosussians, russians and poles on a side, they were not rocket scientists, they were murderous psychopaths.

 

[barbos]

Nobody could pick up the bodies because Russians shot everyone who went out. Duh.

Is this kind of shit your propaganda feeds you?
Still, does not explain 4 days delay and very fresh corpses.

 

[barbos]

On the other hand, there is the actual pictures, videos, satellite images, and witness statements saying that Russia did indeed murder civilians in Bucha. And the same thing was revealed to happen in other towns. "The mayor of Bucha" argument is weak compared to all the other corroborating evidence.

Utter garbage.
4 days delay, answer it.

Russia has thousands and thousand testimonies of people saying that Azov commited multiple war crimes. Moreover there are hundreds of irrefutable evidences of West media flat out lying. And the recent law against that kind of lies has up to 15 years sentences. So technically these journalists can end up in prison if they decide to visit Russia in the future

 

[barbos]

1. Dead bodies shown in satellite images weeks before.

Seriously. Are you on some kind of drugs?

 

[Jayjay]

1. Dead bodies shown in satellite images weeks before.

This is evidence of fakery. because bodies on the video are fresh. And again, your fucking mayor was not made aware of that for weeks now?

And your estimate that they were "fresh" is based on what exactly?

A) Coroner's autopsy and medical opinion?
B) Or some asshat taking head on Russian state TV?

My guess is on the latter, because that's where you seem to be getting all your "information". A dead carcass doesn't begin to liquefy until several weeks. And all the bodies are fully clothed so you wouldn't be able to tell.

2. Multiple witnesses saying the same thing, many losing family members or friends.

Fucking lies!
The same kind of lies you (the west) perpetrated about maternity ward. Where the same instagram cunt was dressed to appear as different women.

That lie has been debunked ages ago. The "instagram cunt" Marianna Podgurskaya was at the hospital, but the woman who died is not her.

Are you seeing a pattern here? You see some bullshit conspiracy theory on Russian TV, come spouting it here, when five minutes of googling could show that it's utter garbage. And then you run away, never concede being wrong, and spout of some other nonsense. Do your own research next time please.

The same cunt which was caught on camera getting food from ...... russian soldiers.

Produced by Moskva Films.

Not going to bother checking if that's true, probably not because every other fucking thing you've seen on Russian state produced propaganda is not, but let's say for the sake of the argument that she did get food from Russian soldiers and was filmed doing so. That doesn't say squat about the attack on the maternity ward not happening: all it means that Podgurskaya survived and Russians later captured the city. And someone had a bright idea to use her for Russian propaganda purposes.

Complete lack of witness testimonies to the contrary.

That's not evidence
Speaking of which, do you know what else is lacking? Any videos prior to April 4
Every one has a cellphone and no videos of actual massacre.

There are videos: like this drone footage of Russian military shooting a civilian cyclist.

Lack of civilian cell phone videos or pictures is obviously: communications were cut, and only insane or desperate people would go out when Russians are shooting everyone on sight. And Russians went from door to door with their kill lists and confiscated phones and computers. But I wouldn't be surprised if more material was filmed and saved, and will now surface when the occupiers are gone.

As for lack of evidence being evidence: yes, it is, if in a city of thousands nobody says that Russians didn't do anything and it was Ukrainian army or nazis. There are international reporters and investigators talking to everyone they can, so if the vastness of the conspiracy you'd need to account for it would be staggering.

Russian army is a paid professional army who were specifically warned about that kind of crap and they behave accordingly.

In Russia, if you said anything different, you'd go to jail for 15 years. So even if you are full of shit, perhaps it's too harsh of me to demand that you concede when being shown wrong. For me, being wrong and having to admit it is no big deal. For you it's prison time. So, even if you see with your own eyes Russian tank shooting a guy on a bicycle, and obviously know that the Russian army is committing war crimes and massacres, you're not going to be able to say it out loud.

I will continue to expose your bullshit claims when you make them though.

 

[barbos]

Fuck, stop acting as if it was not proven that ukrainian nazis are behind Bucha

FUCK! FUCK! FUCK! Stop acting like the murdering invaders of Ukraine are murdering, raping, and pillaging for just cause!

Even this stupid NAZI excuse is weak and pathetic.

View attachment 38089

When is Russia going to invade "liberate"this evil hotbed of NAZI activity?

Yeah, 25 year old pictures. Bill Clinton was a president and he was a big "friend" of Russia
You keep stepping in the same shit

There are more recent examples:

View attachment 38093

Or this guy:

Both example are from Donbas, the latter is from 2015 I believe. This is because FSB used Russian neo-nazis as cannon fodder early in the 2014 conflict: when arrested in Russia, they were given a choice between going to jail or to help prop up the "people's republics". Many nazis were recruited this way from ranks of RNU for example.

Both sides have a few card-carrying nazis fighting for them. Ukraine maybe more because in Russia it's not hip to openly glorify Hitler, but ideologically the Russian brand of fascism is much worse.

You were claiming that there were no nazis in Ukrainian army becasue their president was a black jew and ended with committing Tu quoque fallacy.

Yeah, there were reports of some russian nationalist (not neo-nazis) volunteers fighting in Eastern Ukraine in the early days of the conflict. Nothing new.
They were not associated with Russian army though. That ukrainian piece of shit nazi IS ukrainian army. The other badge suggests exactly that.
The guy with swastika you posted, there is no way to confirm that he was
1. Russian
2. fighting on the russian side.

Fact is, ukrainian army has shitload of nazis, and their "jew" presidents name streets after jew killers. They have to, otherwise they would have no country.

 

[barbos]

And your estimate that they were "fresh" is based on what exactly?

On experts looking at the pictures.

And it does not even matter. There are tons of inconsistencies there.
I mean ukrainian fake-team could have acquired 2 weeks old corpses and used them.
That would not change anything. Your stupid satellite images are irrelevant too.
These could have been flat out manufactured by the west.
They could have been real and with real bodies, and would still prove nothing.
They might had been there by the time of taking satellite picture. But they are certainly not the same bodies from the video taken 4 days after russians left.


Only in Finland it is customary to let bodies to lie down for weeks in the center of the road. And only in Finland bodies do not decompose.

Do you know what most likely happened?
These "bodies" were found on satellite images by ukrainian nazi shitheads.
And they decided to stage "massacre"..... 4 days after russians left, not knowing that mayor had already posted his smiling video.
So they hired makeup artists from Palestine to do the whole thing and they did
And now, you are making a fool of yourself and losing any respect you might have with me.

As for the satelite image bodies, don't know, could be russian or ukrainian soldiers.
Could be simply some kind of debris which looks like bodies.

Same thing with city hall bombing, everything is great, except the rocket is missing on 3 frames. That's it, end of story, video is fake, no amount of testimonies can change that.

maternity ward - same thing - fake!

Now, it clearly works with most (not all) western public now. But trust me, it will blow in you face eventually.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

It can all be faked, like Russia’s accusations. Ukraine is responsible for the fake accusations from Putin about nazis in Ukraine. In fact the entire Ukrainian military has been faking the entire invasion. They are amassing in far eastern Ukraine to invade eastern Ukraine.

 

[barbos]

Some unexpected but good news.
Since the start of the denazification operation in Ukraine, number of scam phone calls in Russia dropped 10 times. Some say it's because most of these call centers were located in Ukraine.

 

[barbos]

It can all be faked, like Russia’s accusations.

Russia does not accuse anybody yet.
But do you have anything of substance to say?

 

[Jayjay]

Sorry man, you lost again. The same way you lost argument with City Hall bombing.

Are you referring to the missile strike in Kharkiv? The one where you claimed that it was a "bomb" rather than a missile because of one frame in a video where the missile was fainter than the other? At which point you ran away and didn't bother to reply?

I don't know what imaginary land you are living in if you think that I "lost" that argument.

 

[Hermit]

Nobody could pick up the bodies because Russians shot everyone who went out. Duh.

Is this kind of shit your propaganda feeds you?
Still, does not explain 4 days delay and very fresh corpses.

The corpses were not fresh. Satellite photos showes some of them dead on the street almost two weeks before the Russians pulled out of Bucha.



It is up to you to provide evidence they were faked.

More debunking of alleged fakes:

 

[barbos]

Sorry man, you lost again. The same way you lost argument with City Hall bombing.

Are you referring to the missile strike in Kharkiv? The one where you claimed that it was a "bomb" rather than a missile because of one frame in a video where the missile was fainter than the other? At which point you ran away and didn't bother to reply?

Yes that one. And no, I did not run away.

I don't know what imaginary land you are living in if you think that I "lost" that argument.

You lost argument. Video is 100% fake, that is it was doctored to look the way it looks.
And now you are losing remaining respect you had.
Seriously, why should I continue to engage with you?

 

[barbos]

The corpses were not fresh

They were. And again, it does not even matter.

4 days delay!
Perpetrators of that scam will be found and will rot in russian prison.