Russian Invasion of Ukraine - tactics and logistics

[Gun Nut]

You ok? You are sounding more and more desperate lately.... Is this what Russian state-owned media is broadcasting?

I am OK, are you?
I was talking about Ukrainian news, not russian. Ukrainian news reported all of that.
Do you understand the difference between these two?
They are the source of all of that.

link (citation), or you are just making stuff up.

Nope, I am not giving you any links. And I explained why

[Removed] OK, good to know you have nothing to share but your own imagination.

 

[steve_bank]

A friend in the Swedish military tells me they have now switched to a stance where war with Russia is likely and inevitable. That's what they are training for. Finland and Sweden were already allied. But now they are having joint excercises. For practical purposes Sweden and Finland now has a single unified army designed with a single purpose, defending against Russian aggression.

I see Sweden and Finland joining NATO ASAP as a given. Once that is final Denmark and Norway will add their troops to the Finish defence. And perhaps more importantly, their money.

Yes, I know, soldiers always assume the worst. It is their job. But the degree to that they take this recent development seriously is pretty scary.

Both world wars went from very peaceful to war in a very short time. Things can quickly spiral out of control

The USA was not directly touched by WWII. There may be people in Sweden and Finland who were alive in the war.

Putin's invasion of Ukraine may go down in history as one of the worst political and military blunders in the last 200 years. Future politicians and militarily strategists will study it.

There is some irony to the USA and Chanda supplying significant aid to Russia in WWII, and now we are aiding Ukraine against Russia.

I read Kissinger's book Diplomacy. Not being an historian what I took away form it was undestanding that WWI and WWII were not short term events. They were the culmination of many geopolitical and cultural threads going back centuries.


From that and analysis I listend to Putin appears to be playing out Russian culture. It is not just Putin and his propaganda. The majority of Russian people have not rejected the past.

 

[Elixir]

Ukrainian news reported all of that.

... just not in any form that can be linked (of course). Probably reported it to barbos in his sleep.
Or maybe Gun Nut is right. Forthrightness from Putinpologists would be a shocking development.

The majority of Russian people have not rejected the past.

They do seem to love their barbaric dictators.

 

[DrZoidberg]

.

I read Kissinger's book Diplomacy. Not being an historian what I took away form it was undestanding that WWI and WWII were not short term events. They were the culmination of many geopolitical and cultural threads going back centuries.

But that can only be after the fact justification. The problem with rare events is that there's little to compare them to

From that and analysis I listend to Putin appears to be playing out Russian culture. It is not just Putin and his propaganda. The majority of Russian people have not rejected the past.

Bah. Putin's "justifications" is the ramblings of a madman. If he didn't have the Russian propaganda machine behind him nobody but Russian fascists would buy his nonsense

 

[Copernicus]

.

I read Kissinger's book Diplomacy. Not being an historian what I took away form it was undestanding that WWI and WWII were not short term events. They were the culmination of many geopolitical and cultural threads going back centuries.

But that can only be after the fact justification. The problem with rare events is that there's little to compare them to

I haven't read Kissinger's book, but I think that Steve is right about the two world wars being the culmination of historical trends. For example, WWI was triggered by a panslavic terrorist attack that was playing out between Serbia (with Russian meddling) and the Austro-Hungarian Empire. A war with Russia had been considered inevitable in the Prussian Empire, so the stage was set for a major Germanic vs Slavic conflagration aggravated by the religious schism between Eastern Orthodoxy and Western Catholicism. WWII was, in many ways, a replay of that historic rivalry when the two great European dictators, Stalin and Hitler, concluded a pact to divide territories between their two expanding empires. The involvement of France, England, and the US was, in many ways, just a sideshow.

From that and analysis I listend to Putin appears to be playing out Russian culture. It is not just Putin and his propaganda. The majority of Russian people have not rejected the past.

Bah. Putin's "justifications" is the ramblings of a madman. If he didn't have the Russian propaganda machine behind him nobody but Russian fascists would buy his nonsense

Again, I see Putin's essay and speeches on Slavic "unity" as a historical theme that long predated Putin. I don't believe that he wrote that essay on his own. He had nationalists helping him craft it. Russians have long felt that Moscow, the so-called "Third Rome", was destined to rule over all Slavic-speaking areas in which the Eastern Orthodox faith was dominant. That's why Belarus, Ukrainian, and Russian are written in a Cyrillic alphabet--because those territories were seen by Russians as theirs to rule. The very name "tsar" goes back to the fall of Constantinople, which sent shockwaves through the Eastern Orthodox Slavic territories to the north of the Black Sea. Ukrainians and Belarusians, of course, did not see Moscow as the historical or cultural capital, but Russians did. SigmatheZeta's essay above makes reference to some of that history. This war in Ukraine is Russian ultranationalism rearing its ugly head again. It is a historical jihad.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

This war in Ukraine is Russian ultranationalism rearing its ugly head again. It is a historical jihad.

Do you think it is Russian nationalism? To be more precise, and perhaps I'm splitting hairs but I see it as Tsarist imperialism. I don't think Joe Russian gives two shits about Putin's vainglorious ambitions.

 

[Jayjay]

May 9th is basically Altertag. He will announce full Russian mobilization. He will demand that Ukraine surrender or he will threaten nuclear war. He cannot afford to lose. He cannot afford to allow this war to drag on. Who knows what he will do. But it will be done on May 9th. It will be very bad.

The question is whether there’s a Russian Tresckow, Gersdorff, or Stauffenberg to stop him.

Dude, you are crazy.

Sure. But Russian forces are the ones getting their butts kicked in Ukraine. What’s crazy is invading a sovereign country without provocation. Who gives a shit about their internal regime? IT’S THEIR FUCKING COUNTRY. They didn’t attack Russia, Russia attacked them, and no amount of reasoning by you, justifies what your fucked up country has done. You have destroyed decades of trust. People will condemn the Russian people for doing this for thousands of years. Just as Germany bears the shame of Hitler for launching WWII. You can rationalize it all you want. Nobody believes you. The whole world has condemned you. Your arguments will never erase your shame.

seriously, what fucking good has this war done for you? How is Russia’s security situation improved by having 1,000 tanks destroyed? How has it helped Russia that 15,000 of its young men lie dead?

You have never answered those questions! And now you’re fucked up leader is going to double down and fully mobilize the reserves, sending hundreds of thousands conscripted soldiers to the war and tens of thousands to their deaths. No matter what you do you will never conquer Ukraine. They don’t want you there. Go home.

I agree with everything except the last paragraph. Putin very well might conquer Ukraine, or at least the parts it has occupied so far and maybe a little bit more.

 

[Copernicus]

This war in Ukraine is Russian ultranationalism rearing its ugly head again. It is a historical jihad.

Do you think it is Russian nationalism? To be more precise, and perhaps I'm splitting hairs but I see it as Tsarist imperialism. I don't think Joe Russian gives two shits about Putin's vainglorious ambitions.

Yes, I think that it is Russian ultranationalism--the brand of Russian fascism that Putin appears to be promoting with his "Z" campaign that gets painted and displayed all over the place on Russian military vehicles. They are even going to some lengths now to rehabilitate Stalin, who was the Soviet equivalent of Adolph Hitler. That's why they are sending this historian to a gulag:

Russian Historian Dmitriyev To Be Transferred To Penal Colony​

Ukrainians in general are now continually mocked and vilified in the state-controlled press, and we can see that attitude reflected in barbos's rhetoric here. Putin is a full-blooded right wing fascist dictator, but that transition from his Soviet past was not all that great. Russia has been transformed from a fledgling democracy back into a dictatorship run by the United Russia Party, along with other ultraright parties. The "Z" label is becoming their version of the swastika.

 

[Jayjay]

I said Germanic. And I'm still right. You are just wrong.

No, ukrainian does not have germanic words.
What is the point of that anyway? Where are you going with this BS?

Wikipedia disagrees with you, and seems to confirm what Zoidberg is saying.

Ukrainian language - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

During the 13th century, when German settlers were invited to Ukraine by the princes of the Kingdom of Ruthenia, German words began to appear in the language spoken in Ukraine. Their influence would continue under Poland not only through German colonists but also through the Yiddish-speaking Jews. Often such words involve trade or handicrafts. Examples of words of German or Yiddish origin spoken in Ukraine include dakh (roof), rura (pipe), rynok (market), kushnir (furrier), and majster (master or craftsman).

(...)

Due to heavy borrowings from Polish, German, Czech and Latin, early modern vernacular Ukrainian (prosta mova, "simple speech") had more lexical similarity with West Slavic languages than with Russian or Church Slavonic. By the mid-17th century, the linguistic divergence between the Ukrainian and Russian languages had become so significant that there was a need for translators during negotiations for the Treaty of Pereyaslav, between Bohdan Khmelnytsky, head of the Zaporozhian Host, and the Russian state.

 

[Patooka]

Meh, Wikipedia is run by Nazis anyway. They're in cahoots with NATO to spread lies about glorious Putin

 

[SLD]

So today Russia denied that it would declare war on May 9th. We will see.

Ukraine war: Russia denies it plans to declare war on 9 May

The Kremlin has so far only referred to the war in Ukraine as a "special military operation".

www.bbc.com

 

[Elixir]

I said Germanic. And I'm still right. You are just wrong.

No, ukrainian does not have germanic words.
What is the point of that anyway? Where are you going with this BS?

Wikipedia disagrees with you, and seems to confirm what Zoidberg is saying.

Ukrainian language - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

During the 13th century, when German settlers were invited to Ukraine by the princes of the Kingdom of Ruthenia, German words began to appear in the language spoken in Ukraine. Their influence would continue under Poland not only through German colonists but also through the Yiddish-speaking Jews. Often such words involve trade or handicrafts. Examples of words of German or Yiddish origin spoken in Ukraine include dakh (roof), rura (pipe), rynok (market), kushnir (furrier), and majster (master or craftsman).

(...)

Due to heavy borrowings from Polish, German, Czech and Latin, early modern vernacular Ukrainian (prosta mova, "simple speech") had more lexical similarity with West Slavic languages than with Russian or Church Slavonic. By the mid-17th century, the linguistic divergence between the Ukrainian and Russian languages had become so significant that there was a need for translators during negotiations for the Treaty of Pereyaslav, between Bohdan Khmelnytsky, head of the Zaporozhian Host, and the Russian state.

Interesting.
Showing definitively that Barbos is talking out of his ass again, priceless.

 

[Jayjay]

A friend in the Swedish military tells me they have now switched to a stance where war with Russia is likely and inevitable. That's what they are training for. Finland and Sweden were already allied. But now they are having joint excercises. For practical purposes Sweden and Finland now has a single unified army designed with a single purpose, defending against Russian aggression.

I see Sweden and Finland joining NATO ASAP as a given. Once that is final Denmark and Norway will add their troops to the Finish defence. And perhaps more importantly, their money.

Yes, I know, soldiers always assume the worst. It is their job. But the degree to that they take this recent development seriously is pretty scary.

Both world wars went from very peaceful to war in a very short time. Things can quickly spiral out of control

What the hell did the Swedish army think they were training for before?

 

[DrZoidberg]

I said Germanic. And I'm still right. You are just wrong.

No, ukrainian does not have germanic words.
What is the point of that anyway? Where are you going with this BS?

Wikipedia disagrees with you, and seems to confirm what Zoidberg is saying.

Ukrainian language - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

During the 13th century, when German settlers were invited to Ukraine by the princes of the Kingdom of Ruthenia, German words began to appear in the language spoken in Ukraine. Their influence would continue under Poland not only through German colonists but also through the Yiddish-speaking Jews. Often such words involve trade or handicrafts. Examples of words of German or Yiddish origin spoken in Ukraine include dakh (roof), rura (pipe), rynok (market), kushnir (furrier), and majster (master or craftsman).

(...)

Due to heavy borrowings from Polish, German, Czech and Latin, early modern vernacular Ukrainian (prosta mova, "simple speech") had more lexical similarity with West Slavic languages than with Russian or Church Slavonic. By the mid-17th century, the linguistic divergence between the Ukrainian and Russian languages had become so significant that there was a need for translators during negotiations for the Treaty of Pereyaslav, between Bohdan Khmelnytsky, head of the Zaporozhian Host, and the Russian state.

Interesting.
Showing definitively that Barbos is talking out of his ass again, priceless.

My Ukrainian lover told me that when people say that Ukrainians sounds just like Russian, it's because that Ukrainian is probably speaking Russian at that point. Ukrainians are often fluent in both. Due to the similarities and close cultural ties, it's pretty easy for Ukrainians to learn Russian, and do. But they're not the same language. They use different alphabets! A lot of similarities. But they are distinct.

This is not hard to look up.

Ukrainian and Russian: how similar are the two languages?

Putin has suggested Ukrainians and Russians share one language, but there are many differences that are important to understand.

theconversation.com

Difference Between Russian and Ukrainian (With Table) – Ask Any Difference

Difference Between Russian and Ukrainian (With Table)

askanydifference.com

 

[DrZoidberg]

A friend in the Swedish military tells me they have now switched to a stance where war with Russia is likely and inevitable. That's what they are training for. Finland and Sweden were already allied. But now they are having joint excercises. For practical purposes Sweden and Finland now has a single unified army designed with a single purpose, defending against Russian aggression.

I see Sweden and Finland joining NATO ASAP as a given. Once that is final Denmark and Norway will add their troops to the Finish defence. And perhaps more importantly, their money.

Yes, I know, soldiers always assume the worst. It is their job. But the degree to that they take this recent development seriously is pretty scary.

Both world wars went from very peaceful to war in a very short time. Things can quickly spiral out of control

What the hell did the Swedish army think they were training for before?

The most likely combat scenario they were earlier training for was joining an international US-led coalition somewhere around the world. Like the war in former Yugoslavia, Afghanistan, Iraq or somewhere in Africa. Either as part of a UN-police action or as an attacking force. Offensive training. They saw the risk of war in Europe as low.

Now Sweden has switched from training for a predominantly offensive style of warfare, to a defensive style of warfare. Or more precisely, being a defensive reinforcement to Finland specifically. So it's quite a big shift.

I would have thought defending the Baltic states should also be a priority. But it's not. Perhaps, because they're members of NATO, Sweden assumes USA has that covered, and is focusing on the Finnish defense? I really don't know. Or perhaps they don't think they're possible to defend?

Trivia: The attached picture is a statue of Charles XII of Sweden. He lost to the Russians at the battle of Poltava (1709 in Ukraine). The outcome of that battle is what later led to Ukraine being absorbed into Russia. The statue is pointing towards Moscow. This is to remind Swedes who pass below the statue of who their enemy is. It's also a handy way to know what direction east is when navigating downtown Stockholm. It's a prominent statue.

Charles XII of Sweden - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[barbos]

DrZoidberg, still think a lot of german words in ukrainian?

 

[barbos]

The outcome of that battle is what later led to Ukraine being absorbed into Russia.

You sound almost as if Ukraine is a part of Sweden.

 

[bilby]

This war in Ukraine is Russian ultranationalism rearing its ugly head again. It is a historical jihad.

Do you think it is Russian nationalism? To be more precise, and perhaps I'm splitting hairs but I see it as Tsarist imperialism. I don't think Joe Russian gives two shits about Putin's vainglorious ambitions.

Yes, I think that it is Russian ultranationalism--the brand of Russian fascism that Putin appears to be promoting with his "Z" campaign that gets painted and displayed all over the place on Russian military vehicles. They are even going to some lengths now to rehabilitate Stalin, who was the Soviet equivalent of Adolph Hitler. That's why they are sending this historian to a gulag:

Russian Historian Dmitriyev To Be Transferred To Penal Colony​

Ukrainians in general are now continually mocked and vilified in the state-controlled press, and we can see that attitude reflected in barbos's rhetoric here. Putin is a full-blooded right wing fascist dictator, but that transition from his Soviet past was not all that great. Russia has been transformed from a fledgling democracy back into a dictatorship run by the United Russia Party, along with other ultraright parties. The "Z" label is becoming their version of the swastika.

I understand that the Ukrainians joke that the reason the Russians use the 'Z' is that the other half of their swastika got stolen in the warehouse...

 

[barbos]

Azov nazis blocked at AzovSteel suggested exchanging hostages they are holding for food and medical supplies. Looks like they finally ran out of food.
I say give them some food for a lot of hostages.

Captured ukrainian soldiers complained that javelines and NLAWs were with expired batteries and only 1 in 4 actually worked.

 

[bilby]

A friend in the Swedish military tells me they have now switched to a stance where war with Russia is likely and inevitable. That's what they are training for. Finland and Sweden were already allied. But now they are having joint excercises. For practical purposes Sweden and Finland now has a single unified army designed with a single purpose, defending against Russian aggression.

I see Sweden and Finland joining NATO ASAP as a given. Once that is final Denmark and Norway will add their troops to the Finish defence. And perhaps more importantly, their money.

Yes, I know, soldiers always assume the worst. It is their job. But the degree to that they take this recent development seriously is pretty scary.

Both world wars went from very peaceful to war in a very short time. Things can quickly spiral out of control

What the hell did the Swedish army think they were training for before?

They were worried that Norway was looking at them funny.