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Roe v Wade is on deck

What if all of the apathetic people who never vote would vote? Sadly, most of the ones I've known are either young, black or poor. Think what a different it would make if all of us voted. That's the problem in Georgia, even worse than voter suppression, is voter apathy. I'm tired of hearing "my vote doesn't count", or even dumber, "they might call me for jury duty if I vote", or "they don't let black people vote". OMG! I've heard all of those things, as well as "I'm just not going to vote. You can't make me". Stacey Abrams has motivate a lot of people to vote for the first time in their lives. But, will it continue? Can she get more people to grasp the most powerful right that they have and use it?

I may be off topic, but if everyone would vote, we'd have a chance to make things better for all of us. Our education system has failed us. We even have people in our Congress with advanced degrees from fancy colleges and universities who are ignorant or greedy for power, perhaps both.
 
What if all of the apathetic people who never vote would vote? Sadly, most of the ones I've known are either young, black or poor. Think what a different it would make if all of us voted. That's the problem in Georgia, even worse than voter suppression, is voter apathy. I'm tired of hearing "my vote doesn't count", or even dumber, "they might call me for jury duty if I vote", or "they don't let black people vote". OMG! I've heard all of those things, as well as "I'm just not going to vote. You can't make me". Stacey Abrams has motivate a lot of people to vote for the first time in their lives. But, will it continue? Can she get more people to grasp the most powerful right that they have and use it?

I may be off topic, but if everyone would vote, we'd have a chance to make things better for all of us. Our education system has failed us. We even have people in our Congress with advanced degrees from fancy colleges and universities who are ignorant or greedy for power, perhaps both.
Mandatory voting would put most elected Republicans out on the street. Their donors don’t want that to happen, and are currently empowered to ensure that it doesn’t. The coming battle for democracy will determine whether or not the donor class can be overthrown, among other things. I am not optimistic.
 
If a government can force a woman to have a baby when she wants to have an abortion, why cannot that same government force a woman to have an abortion when she wants to have a baby?

If the government should be empowered to do the former but not the latter, I ask, why? What legal principle distinguishes one from the other?

When the issue is put this way, it becomes plain that there is no legal or constitutional issue here. There is only religion.

Life, the anti-abortion crowd yammers, begins at conception! But what does that mean? Do they hold that a zygote is a person? No one could be so daft. A zygote is not sentient. It does not feel pain. It does not think. It cannot in any way care for itself.

But apparently a certain sort of religious dementia teaches their adherents that a zygote is ensouled. Ah, there it is! It has nothing to do with constitutional principle or even personhood — it has only to do with the fact that people believe in non-existent souls! And because of this stupid belief, we are going back to the coat-hanger confederacy that existed pre-Roe v. Wade.

That stupid belief is driving us back there, and the equally stupid and sinister belief that women are appliances for men to use as they see fit.

The Democrats are now talking about passing a federal law to permit abortion, even though they know that it cannot pass the current evenly divided Congress. Hmm? Why the hell did they not do that when they had actual Democratic majorities under the corporate-bought milquetoasts Jimmy Carter, Bill Clinton and Barack Obama?

Meanwhile, Moscow Mitch McConnell is talking about a federal ban on abortion if the GOP regains Congress, meaning the ban on abortion would be nationwide. A house divided against itself cannot stand, warned Lincoln in 1858, predicting that the house of the union would indeed stand, but only because it would soon become all free or all slave.

This Supreme Court decision, if it comes down as leaked, will be the most infamous decision since Dred Scott and must awaken the Blue State majority — not just because of this, but as the culmination of all the other Red State aberrations imposed by Red upon Blue, including the election of two Republican presidents in sixteen years who lost the popular vote but were elected because of the reactionary anachronism of the Electoral College. Confederate secession occurred a few years after Dred Scott, even though the decision went their way, because Lincoln and his fellow Republicans (the opposite of today’s Republicans) would not bow before it — Dred Scott, Lincoln said, was not a “Thus saith the Lord.”

Blue State secession must be contemplated now, not only because of this decision but for myriad other reasons. The Blue and Red states are two different nations de facto and perhaps it is time to recognize this fact de jure. Even Lincoln, who opposed secession, conceded that peaceful divorce was possible, that the two sides in a dispute could agree to dissolve the contract between them. Maybe peaceful separation is the way to go.
 

This is what a rogue Supreme Court looks like--justices who want to use their power to shape public policy rather than leave that up to the legislative and executive branches. What possible point of legal issue is she thinking about here? It has nothing to do with the interpretation of the Constitution let alone Roe v Wade. This has to do with her opinion about what to do with all of those unwanted pregnancies that women will be forced to carry to term.
HuH? The leaked paper said it shpuld be up to the states and people. FDR tried to pack the court to get around the federal courts rejecting his New Deal.

I support te right for women to choose abortion, but relying on which way the SCOTUS is leaning leads to obvious legal instability.

It is not for SCOURTUS to take into account financial and social burdens of banning abortion, only if there is a constitrutional right to abortion.

There are a number of rights which are not directly related to COTUS but were enacted by congressional legislation into law.

The battle over the ERA.

 
I think women will be heard loud and clear in the coming elections.
Women were heard loud and clear in the last several elections.
That's why Trump was in the White House. Women comprise a substantial part of the TeaPartiers. TeaPartiers vote.
End of story.

Doesn't matter how you think women should vote. "Democrats" women tend not to vote, "Republican" women tend to vote.
Tom

Previous elections =/= coming elections (which is what I was talking about).
Yup. At all these protests of Alito's ruling, they are registering voters.
 
I think women will be heard loud and clear in the coming elections.
Women were heard loud and clear in the last several elections.
That's why Trump was in the White House. Women comprise a substantial part of the TeaPartiers. TeaPartiers vote.
End of story.

Doesn't matter how you think women should vote. "Democrats" women tend not to vote, "Republican" women tend to vote.
Tom
More women than men vote, as percentages. Women are more likely to vote Democrat compared with men, including white women and white men.

Trump lost the popular vote in 2016.

Blame women all you want. It's white men who elected Trump.

https://www.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/ft_2020.08.18_turnout_04.png
 
Are you suggesting the tyranny of the minority is preferable?
Certainly not. It is always a balancing act. The majority is not always right and neither is the minority always right. If we ever work out how to balancing all those competing and sometimes contradictory wishes it will be wonderful.
Pregnancy is perhaps the most intimate and invasive thing a human being can go through. At its very least, it is an extraordinary sacrifice.
What?
Pregnancy is perhaps the most intimate and invasive thing a human being can go through. At its very least, it is an extraordinary sacrifice.

I assume you mean this definition of sacrifice:

a : destruction or surrender of something for the sake of something else
b : something given up or lost
I mean the part where there is suffering, compromise, and even a bunch of pain. While I'm glad you think pregnancy is roses and lilacs with cherubs floating around for over nine months, that isn't exactly how it works.
I didn't say pregnancy and birth were 'roses and lilacs'. I asked what was given up or lost because of pregnancy?

Many women even plan and want to get pregnant.
And marathon runners want to run in a marathon. That doesn't mean it isn't hard and painful.
I know a marathon runner. I doubt he would call his training an act of sacrifice.

I'm certain you are going to get to some point here. Was it that the state should be allowed to force a woman to endure a pregnancy? Because your mom was overjoyed over conception?
My point is nothing about the State allowing or forbidding abortion. It's that calling every pregnancy 'an extraordinary sacrifice' seems like you understand neither the word 'extraordinary' or 'sacrifice'.
 
I think women will be heard loud and clear in the coming elections.
Women were heard loud and clear in the last several elections.
That's why Trump was in the White House. Women comprise a substantial part of the TeaPartiers. TeaPartiers vote.
End of story.

Doesn't matter how you think women should vote. "Democrats" women tend not to vote, "Republican" women tend to vote.
Tom
More women than men vote, as percentages. Women are more likely to vote Democrat compared with men, including white women and white men.

Trump lost the popular vote in 2016.

Blame women all you want. It's white men who elected Trump.

https://www.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/ft_2020.08.18_turnout_04.png

I think that there's an argument to be made that all the people who decided not to vote or did not care to vote also elected Trump.
 
My question was directed at lpetrich. He has approvingly reproduced a Tweet which implies something that the draft ruling, as far as I can see, does not say.

I know it's a leaked draft. Your pedantic note is not warranted.
 
Obameter: | PolitiFact
Sign the Freedom of Choice Act

"Throughout my career, I've been a consistent and strong supporter of reproductive justice, and have consistently had a 100% pro-choice rating with Planned Parenthood and NARAL Pro-Choice America. ... And I will continue to defend this right by passing the Freedom of Choice Act as president."

Nothing to sign; bill has fizzled

After initially vowing to sign the Freedom of Choice Act, President Barack Obama quickly said it's not his "highest legislative priority."

That was in March 2009. Since then, it has scarcely been mentioned. A version of the bill was last introduced in Congress in 2007, and no new bill has appeared since.
I looked in  Party divisions of United States Congresses
Democrats had several chances to codify RvW into law over the last half-century, but they failed.
  • 1977-79 - Jimmy Carter -- 61-37 -- 292-143
  • 1979-81 - Jimmy Carter -- 58-41 -- 277-158
  • 1993-95 - Bill Clinton - 57-43 -- 258-176-1
  • 2009-11 - Barack Obama - 60-40/59-31 - 257-178
Now they are being obstructed by Joe Manchin, who is anti-abortion and Kyrsten Sinema, who is pro-choice but also pro-filibuster.
 
So
I think that there's an argument to be made that all the people who decided not to vote or did not care to vote also elected Trump.

Is there a good argument against mandatory voting? The myth is that it would turn the GQP into a dinosaur. I kinda doubt it. But would love to find out.
 
So
I think that there's an argument to be made that all the people who decided not to vote or did not care to vote also elected Trump.

Is there a good argument against mandatory voting? The myth is that it would turn the GQP into a dinosaur. I kinda doubt it. But would love to find out.
There are lots of points against mandatory voting. Can you not think of any on your own?
 
Max Burns on Twitter: "Help me collect the @GOP's anti-choice extremism from the past few days: ..." / Twitter
Help me collect the @GOP's anti-choice extremism from the past few days:

- AZ Senate candidate calls for state bans on condoms
- TN Sen. @MarshaBlackburn calls for contraception ban except for married couples
- @LeaderMcConnell floats a "possible" national abortion ban
- Missouri GOP debating bill to ban women from traveling out of state for abortions
- Louisiana GOP declaring life begins "at fertilization"
- Tennessee GOP law makes it a felony (with a $50K fine) to recieve abortion medication via mail

These are of course in addition to the more than 500 abortion restrictions red state legislatures have passed in the first five months of 2022, and the 13 states that will immediately ban abortion after the Dobbs decision is official.

- Arkansas GOP trigger law would make it a felony to obtain an abortion
- North Dakota GOP Gov. @KristiNoem pledges a special legislative session to pass new abortion restrictions
- Oklahoma GOP passes Texas-style abortion "Bounty Hunter" law
- Ohio GOP debating two trigger laws that would immediately ban abortion once Roe is overturned.
- Ohio GOP trying to reinstate a fetal heartbeat law stuck in the courts.
- Idaho passing a law authorizing civil lawsuits against abortion clinics/providers.
- West Virginia leaving in place a 19th Century anti-abortion law that makes obtaining an abortion punishable by up to 10 years in prison.
- Florida Sen. @marcorubio introducing federal legislation to punish private companies that provide travel benefits for women to obtain abortions in states where they are legal.
- Kansas GOP leading a push to remove abortion protections guaranteed to Kansans by their state constitution.
- Alaska GOP rejects its own state court rulings on abortion, calls for a state constitutional convention to permanently criminalize abortion.

It took less than a week for over a dozen state Republican parties to roll out sweeping anti-abortion policies that even the @GOP of the 1980s would have rejected as unworkably extreme.

- Idaho GOP openly discussing the idea of banning not only Plan B, but IUDs.

It all has a very Taliban-y feel to it, right? The willingness to rewrite laws and even state constitutions with incredible speed, the unwillingness to even frame their goals as ideas to be debated and discussed among their voters. This is top-down government at its worst.

And one small ray of hope (h/t @BrettSBaker) (defeat of Nebraska anti-abortion bill)

- North Carolina @GOP lawmakers will make it their main priority to pass full abortion criminalization in early 2023.
- South Carolina Gov. Henry McMaster announces he will call a special session to immediately pass abortion criminalization without any exceptions.
- Alabama GOP will ban abortion immediately following the Dobbs decision becoming official, with a law that does not currently contain any exceptions for rape or incest.

I can't say I'm "excited" given the grim topic, but I've turned this thread of @GOP totalitarian anti-privacy insanity into a special Sunday edition column for @thedailybeast

Stay tuned, dropping soon!

NEW from me: The @GOP is wasting no time unrolling a dystopian post-abortion future for Americans. They still have time to stop it.

5/9 UPDATE

- Mississippi Gov. Tate Reeves refuses to rule out sweeping ban on male and female contraception if SCOTUS overturns Roe v. Wade.
- Montana anti-abortion advocates are floating the idea of replacing the ENTIRE MONTANA SUPREME COURT in order to overturn the Court's 1999 decision giving women state abortino protections.

Marco Rubio Targets Citi, Amazon With Bill on Abortion-Travel Benefits - Bloomberg
  • Apple also has plans to reimburse abortion travel costs
  • Rubio calls out Disney for paying childrens’ transgender care
Senator Marco Rubio is sending a message to Amazon Inc., The Walt Disney Co., Citigroup Inc. and other U.S. companies that have vowed to pay travel costs for their employees to access abortion services or gender-affirming care for their children: Republicans want to make it more expensive.

The Florida Republican, a potential contender for the GOP nomination in 2024, is proposing legislation that would prevent companies from writing off these costs for their employees and their families. The tax code generally allows companies to deduct their business costs, including employee health coverage and other benefits.
Joining the governor of his state in being anti-business whenever a business does something that he doesn't like.

Overturn of Roe v. Wade raises stakes for Kansas abortion rights battle in August - Kansas Reflector

Brett Baker on Twitter: "@themaxburns State Senators in Nebraska doing some good work this week in keeping would be Talibaners. (link)" / Twitter
noting
Nebraska senators defeat Abortion Ban bill with late night vote

Alaska political fight brewing as Roe v. Wade looks to be overturned soon

McMaster says he’d call SC lawmakers back to curb abortions | The State

What’s next for abortion access in Alabama if Roe v. Wade is overturned?

Republicans Are Wasting No Time Pushing Dystopian Post-Roe v. Wade Laws - The Daily Beast, by Max Burns himself

Mississippi Gov. Tate Reeves won't rule out banning contraception - The Washington Post

Montana abortion rights governed by state law, not SCOTUS
 
Are you suggesting the tyranny of the minority is preferable?
Certainly not. It is always a balancing act. The majority is not always right and neither is the minority always right. If we ever work out how to balancing all those competing and sometimes contradictory wishes it will be wonderful.
Pregnancy is perhaps the most intimate and invasive thing a human being can go through. At its very least, it is an extraordinary sacrifice.
What?
Pregnancy is perhaps the most intimate and invasive thing a human being can go through. At its very least, it is an extraordinary sacrifice.

I assume you mean this definition of sacrifice:

a : destruction or surrender of something for the sake of something else
b : something given up or lost
I mean the part where there is suffering, compromise, and even a bunch of pain. While I'm glad you think pregnancy is roses and lilacs with cherubs floating around for over nine months, that isn't exactly how it works.
I didn't say pregnancy and birth were 'roses and lilacs'. I asked what was given up or lost because of pregnancy?

Many women even plan and want to get pregnant.
And marathon runners want to run in a marathon. That doesn't mean it isn't hard and painful.
I know a marathon runner. I doubt he would call his training an act of sacrifice.

I'm certain you are going to get to some point here. Was it that the state should be allowed to force a woman to endure a pregnancy? Because your mom was overjoyed over conception?
My point is nothing about the State allowing or forbidding abortion. It's that calling every pregnancy 'an extraordinary sacrifice' seems like you understand neither the word 'extraordinary' or 'sacrifice'.
Well, I’ve led a horse to water, not much else can be done.
 
Obameter: | PolitiFact
Sign the Freedom of Choice Act

"Throughout my career, I've been a consistent and strong supporter of reproductive justice, and have consistently had a 100% pro-choice rating with Planned Parenthood and NARAL Pro-Choice America. ... And I will continue to defend this right by passing the Freedom of Choice Act as president."

Nothing to sign; bill has fizzled

After initially vowing to sign the Freedom of Choice Act, President Barack Obama quickly said it's not his "highest legislative priority."

That was in March 2009. Since then, it has scarcely been mentioned. A version of the bill was last introduced in Congress in 2007, and no new bill has appeared since.
I looked in  Party divisions of United States Congresses
Democrats had several chances to codify RvW into law over the last half-century, but they failed.
  • 1977-79 - Jimmy Carter -- 61-37 -- 292-143
  • 1979-81 - Jimmy Carter -- 58-41 -- 277-158
  • 1993-95 - Bill Clinton - 57-43 -- 258-176-1
  • 2009-11 - Barack Obama - 60-40/59-31 - 257-178
Now they are being obstructed by Joe Manchin, who is anti-abortion and Kyrsten Sinema, who is pro-choice but also pro-filibuster.
Will you shut up about Manchin? He doesn’t represent 10 votes and if the Dems kill the filibuster, ACA and the Roe protection will be axed by next January,
 
My question was directed at lpetrich. He has approvingly reproduced a Tweet which implies something that the draft ruling, as far as I can see, does not say.

I know it's a leaked draft. Your pedantic note is not warranted.
The draft ruling implies wild west for anti-abortion. It doesn’t express any limitations to repealing of the right to abortion and plants seeds for repealing a number of other rights. This very vague ruling makes appealing anti-abortion laws very hard, especially in light of the whole we don’t have elephant gestation time lines.

About the only good thing is that it doesn’t say abortion is automatically banned in the US.
 
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