No thread on Patrick Lyoya?

[bilby]

You do realize that it wasn't a random stranger, right?
It was someone who is expected to deal with violent drug addled criminals who are a danger to the rest of us,

It was someone whose job is to serve and protect the public (which includes suspects), and to ensure that suspects get due process.

He is "expected to deal with violent drug addled criminals who are a danger to the rest of us", without them getting hurt, much less killed. Indeed it is his job to risk his life to ensure that all citizens suspected or accused of a crime are given due process, and that all citizens whether or not suspected or accused of a crime are protected against violence from any source, including police, and particularly himself.

That's a very high standard to hold police to, but it's the only standard that prevents them from just being the best equipped violent gang on the streets.

Successful policing uses minimal force. Many police appear to be unaware of this. Policing is a cooperative activity, in which police officers are employed not to hold any special status, but rather to give their full time attention to the duties that ALL citizens are duty bound to perform in defence of their fellow citizens.

If your cops aren't doing this, what you have isn't a police department: It's either a criminal gang in uniforms; or an occupying military power.

 

[Toni]

Not his violence.

Yes, it was Lyoya's violence that resulted in his death.
Tom

No, it's because someone placed a gun to the back of his head and pulled the trigger.

"Someone"?

You do realize that it wasn't a random stranger, right?
It was someone who is expected to deal with violent drug addled criminals who are a danger to the rest of us, like Lyoya.
Tom

Almost every police officer in existence manages every single day to not shoot an unarmed suspect point blank in the back of the head while the suspect is face down on the ground and the police officer is on top of him.

just this one special officer cannot manage to not shoot point lank in the back of the head an unarmed suspect who is face down on the ground under him.

You are correct: I am extremely prejudiced against police officers shooting into the back of the head, at point blank distance any unarmed suspects who are face down on the ground.

I really don’t care what color anybody is in that scenario.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Looked like "suicide by cop".

Looks like murder by cop.

I don't know about that. I think anytime you get physical with a person that has a gun, the outcome is very likely going to be tragic for the non gun person. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes and all that.

Suicide requires intent. This guy was just an idiot.

No.
He was a violent drug addled criminal.

As well as an idiot. But being an idiot isn't why he's dead. It's mostly the violent part.
Tom

Suicide by cop requires actions intended to get the cop to kill the person. I see no intent here, all I see is a drunk idiot panicking because they don't want to go to jail. People sometimes do some incredibly stupid and dangerous things in such panics but that's not the same as suicide by cop.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Not his violence. It is very very very hard to call it self defend when it involves shooting someone in the back of the head at point blank range when you are on top of him, and he’s face down and unarmed.

You're being deliberately blind here--the taser. You can't say "unarmed".

 

[TSwizzle]

Almost every police officer in existence manages every single day to not shoot an unarmed suspect point blank in the back of the head while the suspect is face down on the ground and the police officer is on top of him.

just this one special officer cannot manage to not shoot point lank in the back of the head an unarmed suspect who is face down on the ground under him.

You depict the situation like Lyoyla is innocently lying on his front sunbathing or something. He’s grappling with an armed police officer. The outcome is hardly surprising. No big loss really, violent criminals often meet a sticky end.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Suicide requires intent.

Not necessarily.

A few years back we were having a huge flood, 100 year flood. A guy up the road was a really smart guy, with a great job, and a tendency towards thrill seeking. He decided to go for a midnight kayak on the flooded river, alone. He told his wife he'd be back in a couple of hours.

It took the authorities 3 days to find his body wedged under a fallen tree. Left his wife a grieving widow, pregnant with two toddlers and no income.

Was he suicidal? Hard to say. But he did die as a result of making some super risky decisions. Whether he chose his own death is hard to say, but he did make the choices that caused it.
Tom

You're describing Darwin-award stupidity, not suicide.

 

[TomC]

Almost every police officer in existence manages every single day to not shoot an unarmed suspect point blank in the back of the head while the suspect is face down on the ground and the police officer is on top of him.

Yeah.
Funny how that doesn't make the news.

For every Lyoya, a hundred violent drug addled criminals are taken into custody without injury.
I don't remember any videos going viral showing that.
Tom

 

[Toni]

Not his violence. It is very very very hard to call it self defend when it involves shooting someone in the back of the head at point blank range when you are on top of him, and he’s face down and unarmed.

You're being deliberately blind here--the taser. You can't say "unarmed".

Blind? Did the video show Loyoya holding the taser?

Almost every police officer in existence manages every single day to not shoot an unarmed suspect point blank in the back of the head while the suspect is face down on the ground and the police officer is on top of him.

Yeah.
Funny how that doesn't make the news.

For every Lyoya, a hundred violent drug addled criminals are taken into custody without injury.
I don't remember any videos going viral showing that.
Tom

its less entertaining I guess. Trumpsters do love red meat and bleeding black men.

 

[TomC]

You're describing Darwin-award stupidity, not suicide.

It gets hard to tell the difference.

But his risk taking got him a great job and a hot wife and left three kids. He's a Darwin winner, by evolutionary standards.

Lyoya might be as well, all too possible. He might have left more than three kids. I dunno.
Tom

 

[TomC]

Trumpsters do love red meat and bleeding black men.

And Wokesters love demonizing cops and bleeding black men.
Tom

 

[Loren Pechtel]

If you shoot someone in the back, that means they are not facing you. Which means at that moment they cannot possibly be a threat to you. That makes it cowardly.

A simplistic and incorrect view.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Mr Lyoya is dead because he was shot in th

Mr Lyoya is dead because he assaulted a cop. I

Assaulting a police officer does not result in automatic death. The officer chose to shot him in the back of the head.

But you are putting your life at substantial risk if you do so.

 

[laughing dog]

If you shoot someone in the back, that means they are not facing you. Which means at that moment they cannot possibly be a threat to you. That makes it cowardly.

A simplistic and incorrect view.

Handwaved bs

 

[Toni]

Mr Lyoya is dead because he was shot in th

Mr Lyoya is dead because he assaulted a cop. I

Assaulting a police officer does not result in automatic death. The officer chose to shot him in the back of the head.

But you are putting your life at substantial risk if you do so.

I agree that any black person is putting their life at substantial risk simply by being in the vincinity of a police officer.

I don’t write that lightly or to be glib.

 

[Elixir]

I agree that any black person is putting their life at substantial risk simply by being in the vicinity of a police officer.

Agree or not, it's just an objective fact.

Anyhow, cops are just another socialist facet of the RW law'n order trope. We all - including black people - pool our money so we can hire them to kill black people who get drunk and violent.
/

 

[Derec]

I agree that any black person is putting their life at substantial risk simply by being in the vincinity of a police officer.

That is major league BS. Even more than usual.
The risk of getting shot for "being in the vincinty[sic] of a police officer" is infinitesimal. Regardless of race.
Can you even point to any cases where somebody was shot just for "being in the vincinty[sic] of a police officer" in the last few years? And even if you could find a few, you would have to divide that number by the hundreds of millions of instances of people "being in the vincinty[sic] of a police officer" and it would be a very small probability indeed.
So yes, your statement is BS.

I don’t write that lightly or to be glib.

You definitely do. What you wrote has no relationship with reality. It's pure propaganda.

 

[Derec]

Agree or not, it's just an objective fact.

It is diametrically opposite to being "an objective fact".

 

[Derec]

If you shoot someone in the back, that means they are not facing you. Which means at that moment they cannot possibly be a threat to you. That makes it cowardly.

A simplistic and incorrect view.

Handwaved bs

Glad you recognize your prior statement as "handwaved bs".
Somebody not facing you can definitely be a threat to you. Not specifically to Lyoya, but generally, if a perp is armed with a firearm and running away, he or she can easily shoot back at you over the shoulder. It will not be a well-aimed shot, of course, but it will still be a threat to you (a wild shot, if it hits, is as deadly as an well-aimed one) or innocent bystanders.
Some years ago there was a case of a perp fleeing police and shooting over his shoulder. It proved lethal - he hit himself in the neck and died. Stupid games, stupid prizes.

 

[Elixir]

Agree or not, it's just an objective fact.

It is diametrically opposite to being "an objective fact".

Dead wrong as usual.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Suicide requires intent.

Not necessarily.

Yes, necessarily. Suicide is intentional death of oneself. Jebus, if Loren Pechtel is saying it isn't suicide by cop...

A few years back we were having a huge flood, 100 year flood. A guy up the road was a really smart guy, with a great job, and a tendency towards thrill seeking. He decided to go for a midnight kayak on the flooded river, alone. He told his wife he'd be back in a couple of hours.

It took the authorities 3 days to find his body wedged under a fallen tree. Left his wife a grieving widow, pregnant with two toddlers and no income.

Was he suicidal? Hard to say. But he did die as a result of making some super risky decisions.

That is negligence death which is not suicide.