Elizabeth II has died

[Politesse]

I wouldn't wish pain and anguish on Trump despite the fact that he openly seeks pain and anguish for others.

I'm not going to bitch at his victims for wishing death on him either. He sure isn't giving them the courtesy you're demanding on his behalf. Why is it everyone has to be polite and courteous to the wealthy and powerful at all times, but reciprocity is never assumed? In two supposed democracies? Like, Jesus, people are allowed to be rude sometimes. Both Trump and Elizabeth II made a career of being calculatingly rude, I am not going to manners-shame anyone who wants to extend the exact same level of courtesy right back at them.

 

[Politesse]

Prissy? You don't think these comments could possibly violate the rules of posting on Twitter?
"May her pain be excruciating."
"May she die in agony."

I agree that those comments are out of line.

If anything, she was queen during the decline of the British Empire. All that's left of it are a lot of small islands.

That is such a weirdass criticism. "Stop complaining about being a territorial holding of a corrupt family, they don't have unjust domination over nearly as many places as they used to!" If they suck at maintaining their empire, then now more than ever it is a good time to want to be rid of them. If you don't want your nation to be the possession of aristocrats in the first place, why would it be any more appealing to be the possession of a crumbling and declining empire?

Her shittiness and the shittiness of things she presided over are not grounds to wish pain and anguish upon her.

Why the hell not? She could read. She knew her position. She accepted it all voluntarily, over and over.

I think the question isn't whether the Crown has issues... it is whether statements like:
"May her pain be excruciating."
"May she die in agony."

are against the terms of using Twitter. I'm pretty certain if I said "May you die in agony", that would be moderated here.. and you aren't even a Queen! Well... I don't think you are queen.

It isn't as much as wishing ill will on the Queen... it is the inflammatory wishing of ill will on anyone. The Tweet could have been scathing, without the "pain" and "agony". Oddly enough, maybe a better written and scathing Tweet would have been taken more seriously too. Granted, it wouldn't have been deleted and TSwizzle wouldn't have been able to complain about Twitter censoring people wishing terrible pain and agony on an elderly person.

I don't object to Twitter's actions, I feel I should make clear. They're free to decide what does or doesn't go out over the platform they are accountable for managing. It's the moral question at issue that I was commenting on, not the business decision Twitter has to make a daily call on. Twitter's gonna Twit, I understand that.

 

[lpetrich]

Independence and end of British monarchy:

• 1776 (asserted), 1783 (accepted): Thirteen North American colonies (later United States) (indep: on independence)
• 1867: Canada
• 1901: Australia
• 1907: New Zealand
• 1910: South Africa (1961)
• 1919, Afghanistan (indep)
• 1922: Egypt, Irish Free State (later Republic of Ireland) (1949)
• 1932: Iraq (1932) (indep)
• 1946: Transjordan (now Jordan) (indep)
• 1947: India (1950), Pakistan (1956)
• 1948: Burma (now Myanmar) (indep?), Ceylon (later Sri Lanka) (1972), Palestine (split into Israel & Arab territories) (indep)
• 1951: Libya (indep)
• 1957: Ghana (1960)
• 1960: Cyprus (indep), Nigeria (1963), Somalia (indep)
• 1961: Kuwait (indep), Sierra Leone (1971), Tanganyika (later Tanzania) (1962)
• 1962: Jamaica, Trinidad & Tobago (1976), Uganda (1963)
• 1963: Kenya, Malaysia, Zanzibar (later Tanzania) (indep)
• 1964: Malawi (1966), Malta (1974), Zambia (indep)
• 1965: Gambia (indep), Maldives (indep), Rhodesia (later Zimbabwe) (indep)
• 1966: Barbados (2021), Botswana (indep), Guyana (1970), Lesotho (indep)
• 1968: Mauritius (1992), Nauru (indep), Swaziland (later Eswatini) (indep)
• 1970: Fiji (1987), Tonga (indep)
• 1971: Bahrain (indep), Qatar (indep), Trucial States (later United Arab Emirates) (indep)
• 1973: The Bahamas
• 1974: Grenada
• 1976: Seychelles (indep)
• 1978: Dominica (indep), Solomon Islands, Tuvalu
• 1979: Kiribati (indep), St. Lucia, St. Vincent & the Grenadines
• 1980: Vanuatu (indep)
• 1981: Antigua & Barbuda, Belize
• 1983: St. Kitts & Nevis
• 1984: Brunei (indep)
• 1997: Hong Kong (transferred to China)

 Territorial evolution of the British Empire - when its territories became independent -  Abolition of monarchy - as it says -  Elizabeth II - checks on dates

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I think the question isn't whether the Crown has issues... it is whether statements like:
"May her pain be excruciating."
"May she die in agony."

are against the terms of using Twitter. I'm pretty certain if I said "May you die in agony", that would be moderated here.. and you aren't even a Queen! Well... I don't think you are queen.

It isn't as much as wishing ill will on the Queen... it is the inflammatory wishing of ill will on anyone. The Tweet could have been scathing, without the "pain" and "agony". Oddly enough, maybe a better written and scathing Tweet would have been taken more seriously too. Granted, it wouldn't have been deleted and TSwizzle wouldn't have been able to complain about Twitter censoring people wishing terrible pain and agony on an elderly person.

I don't object to Twitter's actions, I feel I should make clear. They're free to decide what does or doesn't go out over the platform they are accountable for managing. It's the moral question at issue that I was commenting on, not the business decision Twitter has to make a daily call on. Twitter's gonna Twit, I understand that.

Oh... okay...

...and completely by coincidence, there might be a flaming bag of dog poop on your front doorstep I'm now feeling guilty over.

Completely unrelated.

 

[Politesse]

Oh... okay...

...and completely by coincidence, there might be a flaming bag of dog poop on your front doorstep I'm now feeling guilty over.

Completely unrelated.

No worries, mate, concrete doesn't catch alight and the feral cats next door will happily eat the rest once its out.

 

[TSwizzle]

Uju Anya sticks to her guns;

After posting an initial tweet hoping for the Queen's 'excruciating death,' Carnegie Mellon University professor Uju Anya reiterated her beliefs about the late monarch and said she 'supervised a government that sponsored genocide.'
'If anyone expects me to express anything but disdain for the monarch who supervised a government that sponsored the genocide that massacred and displaced half my family and the consequences of which those alive today are still trying to overcome, you can keep wishing upon a star,' she posted.

Daily Mail

I must say, Queen Elizabeth must have been a monster.

 

[steve_bank]

What us interesting is the British propaganda.

The Brits all love the queen.
The world is morning over the queen.
The world loves the queen.

I woder how North Ireland and Scotalnd and Wales think about King Chuck being called their leader and head of state..

 

[Politesse]

I must say, Queen Elizabeth must have been a monster.

No, she was the figurehead for a monstrous empire. Knowledgeably and willingly so. If you nominate yourself to be the symbol of a nation, you don't get to represent only the parts of it you care to acknowledge.

 

[steve_bank]

From what she said piblically she was a traditinal beliver of Brian as empire and a monarchy. Maybe she died believing it. It was reported even family members referred to her as majesty.

She saw herself as in a line of British monarchs.

 

[Oleg]

No, she was the figurehead for a monstrous empire.

The British Empire did more to free and modernize the World than any political entity before or since. It’s not popular history, but the Brits used the force of their Empire to end slavery. Can’t think of any other empire which chose to risk treasure and lives to help outgroups.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

No, she was the figurehead for a monstrous empire.

The British Empire did more to free and modernize the World than any political entity before or since. It’s not popular history, but the Brits used the force of their Empire to end slavery. Can’t think of any other empire which chose to risk treasure and lives to help outgroups.

Such a glorious and cleaner way of looking at it. Such a Manifest Destiny sort of feel. We aren't conquering... we are civilizing.

 

[lpetrich]

That leaves these 14 nations as continuing to have the British monarch as their head of state: Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Jamaica, The Bahamas, Grenada, Papua New Guinea, Solomon Islands, Tuvalu, St. Lucia, St. Vincent & the Grenadines, Belize, Antigua & Barbuda, St. Kitts & Nevis.

• Countries May Cut Ties With Monarchy After Queen's Death | Time
• Queen’s Death Reignites Calls To Cut Ties With British Monarchy In Australia And Other Commonwealth Nations
• With Queen Elizabeth's death, republicans sense their chance | Reuters

Jamaica: British monarchy to be ditched by 2025, Marlene Malahoo Forte says | The National

Malahoo Forte said the process would have been completed before the next general election, which is due in 2025.

However, removing the British monarchy will be done “in stages”, and is expected to involve a majority vote in both the House and Senate. The people of Jamaica are also expected to be given the choice in a referendum.

• Remaining Caribbean islands: Antigua & Barbuda, Grenada, St. Kitts & Nevis, St. Lucia, St. Vincent & the Grenadines
• Near the Caribbean islands: The Bahamas, Belize
• Pacific islands: Papua New Guinea, Solomon Islands, Tuvalu
• Large Anglo nations: Canada, Australia, New Zealand

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

To catch up on some Royal related news:

• Royal family releases statement to warn of potential attempts of people trying to sell Corgis fraudulently labeled as being the Queen's remaining Corgis
  • Family announced that the two remaining living Corgis are to be mummified along with Queen and put in large sarcophagus
• In honor of the Queen, the nation of England won't do anything fun this weekend
• In honor of the death of the Queen, Ireland to hold raucous Mardi Gras like party this weekend
• In stirring first speech, King Charles III declared war on France and is moving troops to take Orleans
• The pack of feral Corgis that have terrorized Westminster for decades, with an estimated population of 251, to be culled now Queen is dead
  • The feral Corgis were the result of abandoned Corgis deemed unsuitable for breeding as part of the Queen's breeding program
• Prince Harry and Meghan Markles were soundly scorned by the British press after they murdered Prince William and Princess Kate to become first in line to the throne.

 

[lpetrich]

From the looks of it, Australia might be next.

• Statement on the Passing of Queen Elizabeth II — Australian Republic Movement
• Lunch with... Matt Thistlethwaite: Labor MP’s three-step plan for Australia to become a Republic
• 'She was extraordinary,' New Zealand Prime Minister Ardern says as the world mourns the Queen | Reuters

From the Australian Republic Movement,

Queen Elizabeth respected the self-determination of the Australian people. During her reign the Australia Act 1986 was passed eliminating many of the remaining opportunities for UK interference in Australian government. Appeals from Australian courts to British courts were abolished.

The Queen backed the right of Australians to become a fully independent nation during the referendum on an Australian republic in 1999, saying that she has "always made it clear that the future of the Monarchy in Australia is an issue for the Australian people and them alone to decide, by democratic and constitutional means.”

...
“We are deeply saddened by the news of Queen Elizabeth’s passing and express deep gratitude and thanks for her service to the Commonwealth.

“During her reign, Australia has grown into a mature and independent nation. It is unlikely we will ever see a Monarch as respected or admired by the Australian people again” Mr FitzSimons said.

Yet more evidence of her likability.

Jacinda Ardern believes New Zealand will become a republic 'in her lifetime' - NZ Herald - 24 May, 2021 01:20 AM
But it is not a big priority.

"I've been very clear that despite being a republican, I'm not of the view that in the here-and-now in my term of office, that this is something New Zealanders feel particularly strongly about," Ardern said.

"I don't know that I've had one person actually raise with me generally day-to-day the issue of becoming a republic. This Government has prioritised those issues that we do see as a priority. But I do still think there will be a time and a place; I just don't see it as now."

The Prime Minister also pointed out that there are "a lot of issues that would need to be resolved in terms of our constitutional arrangements to be able to move to that place".

 

[lpetrich]

Australia almost became a republic in 1999.  1999 Australian republic referendum

The Australian republic referendum held on 6 November 1999 was a two-question referendum to amend the Constitution of Australia. The first question asked whether Australia should become a republic with a President appointed by Parliament following a bi-partisan appointment model which had been approved by a half-elected, half-appointed Constitutional Convention held in Canberra in February 1998. The second question, generally deemed to be far less important politically, asked whether Australia should alter the Constitution to insert a preamble. For some years opinion polls had suggested that a majority of the electorate favoured a republic.[3] Nonetheless, the republic referendum was defeated, partly due to division among republicans on the method proposed for selection of the president and dissident republicans opposed the president to have strong executive power.

The article listed these positions, though with a "citation needed" warning:

• Traditional monarchists - manly older and more rural
• Pragmatic monarchists - like a monarch as a nonpartisan "umpire"
• Minimal change republicans - parliamentary republic, with President appointed by 2/3 of Parliament
• Progressive republicans - popularly-elected President
• Radical republicans - want a presidential or semi-presidential system
• Tactical voters - on both sides, voting against their inclinations to try to prevent more radical changes
• The uncommitted

 

[bilby]

They need to take Jamacia off that list of small islands.

And Australia.

 

[lpetrich]

The British Empire did more to free and modernize the World than any political entity before or since. It’s not popular history, but the Brits used the force of their Empire to end slavery. Can’t think of any other empire which chose to risk treasure and lives to help outgroups.

After having slavery in it for some centuries.

 

[TSwizzle]

I must say, Queen Elizabeth must have been a monster.

No, she was the figurehead for a monstrous empire. Knowledgeably and willingly so. If you nominate yourself to be the symbol of a nation, you don't get to represent only the parts of it you care to acknowledge.

Elizabeth had her bloody hands on the genocide etc. according Uju. Hyperbole maybe, I don't know enough about the British Empire.

 

[bilby]

What us interesting is the British propaganda.

The Brits all love the queen.
The world is morning over the queen.
The world loves the queen.

I woder how North Ireland and Scotalnd and Wales think about King Chuck being called their leader and head of state..

Mate, you didn't even know the English monarch was the head of the Church of England until this morning.

You aren't qualified to wonder anything.

I doubt it's even occurred to you that there are countries far more remote from the English throne than the British Isles who now have King Chuck as their head of state.

 

[bilby]

No, she was the figurehead for a monstrous empire.

The British Empire did more to free and modernize the World than any political entity before or since. It’s not popular history, but the Brits used the force of their Empire to end slavery. Can’t think of any other empire which chose to risk treasure and lives to help outgroups.

Such a glorious and cleaner way of looking at it. Such a Manifest Destiny sort of feel. We aren't conquering... we are civilizing.

I don't know, I've never Kipled.