The death of Tyre Nichols

[Oleg]

Evasion. The point being made is that the end result of an effort to reduce black deaths actually increased black deaths.

You're both transparently misrepresenting the purpose of police reform, and asserting a dubious causation to a general upswing in violent crimes.

What is the alternative explanation for the homicide spike starting May 2020 and primarily affecting black males?

Self hatred passed down from generation to generation within the homes of black people spilling out into streets of the community. Now that you know, got any ideas on what to do about it?

Blacks have the highest self-esteem of any group.

 

[Gospel]

Evasion. The point being made is that the end result of an effort to reduce black deaths actually increased black deaths.

You're both transparently misrepresenting the purpose of police reform, and asserting a dubious causation to a general upswing in violent crimes.

What is the alternative explanation for the homicide spike starting May 2020 and primarily affecting black males?

Self hatred passed down from generation to generation within the homes of black people spilling out into streets of the community. Now that you know, got any ideas on what to do about it?

Blacks have the highest self-esteem of any group.

Ok well, any idea on how to turn that self esteem used to kill people into something more productive?

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

It ought to be noted there is a general trend in the public sector of lack of filled jobs. Some of that came from budget cuts during the pandemic. It hit teachers, police, school bus drivers, etc, etc.

Here is an interesting article:

Many employers across the U.S. are saying they can’t find the workers they need, but the public sector is facing some of the biggest hiring problems. Public sector workers skew older—just 8.1% of the federal workforce is younger than 30, compared to 23 percent of the private sector—and older workers retired en masse during the pandemic. More than half of state and local workers said they were considering leaving their positions voluntarily to retire, change jobs, or leave the workforce entirely, according to a December 2021 survey by MissionSquare Research Institute. Some of the top reasons: they want a higher salary and they feel burned out from the pandemic. Many said that they were shouldering a larger workload since many of their colleagues had left. Because government salaries often can’t match those in the private sector, recruiting new employees is a difficult process. While private-sector employment has surpassed March 2019 levels, there were about 400,000 fewer government employees in March of 2022 than there were in March of 2019. And as the problems in Austin show, vacancies in government jobs can lead to bigger issues than just a company selling fewer hamburgers.

The public sector crisis is reverberating across the country. In Brunswick, Maine, an ice rink didn’t open this winter because of a shortage of workers in the parks and recreation department. Philadelphia imposed mandatory overtime and six-day work weeks on its sanitation workers because of staffing issues. A charter school in Delaware offered to pay parents $700 to drive their kids to school because of problems hiring school bus drivers.

There are the little things that erode when the government is short-staffed: zoning permits take longer to process, and the wait to get a new driver’s license may be even longer than usual. But long-term hiring problems in government could lead to bigger economic issues in the U.S. economy. Public sector employees maintain the roads that workers drive on every day and operate the buses and trains that move them around. On the local level, they educate children, put out fires, and keep drinking water safe. On the federal level, they guide airplanes and create weather forecasts and process taxes. In short, without enough government employees, a lot of things stop working smoothly.

 

[Oleg]

Evasion. The point being made is that the end result of an effort to reduce black deaths actually increased black deaths.

You're both transparently misrepresenting the purpose of police reform, and asserting a dubious causation to a general upswing in violent crimes.

What is the alternative explanation for the homicide spike starting May 2020 and primarily affecting black males?

Self hatred passed down from generation to generation within the homes of black people spilling out into streets of the community. Now that you know, got any ideas on what to do about it?

Blacks have the highest self-esteem of any group.

Ok well, any idea on how to turn that self esteem used to kill people into something more productive?

Tell the white liberals to shut up. Their virtue-signaling is killing people.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Evasion. The point being made is that the end result of an effort to reduce black deaths actually increased black deaths.

You're both transparently misrepresenting the purpose of police reform, and asserting a dubious causation to a general upswing in violent crimes.

What is the alternative explanation for the homicide spike starting May 2020 and primarily affecting black males?

Poverty? I'm not saying it's the answer. It's a suggestion of an idea for consideration among alternatives to your thesis.

Here is some data.

Income and Poverty in the United States: 2020

This report presents data on income, earnings, income inequality & poverty in the United States based on information collected in the 2021 and earlier CPS ASEC.

www.census.gov

2022 MEMPHIS POVERTY FACT SHEET

Economic stimulus checks to citizens helped to target families with children and so childhood poverty didn't take a big hit, but poverty increased in other areas.

Poverty didn't exist before May 2020?

Of course it did and at a different level pre-pandemic. What a bizarre hill you chose to die on.

 

[Oleg]

Evasion. The point being made is that the end result of an effort to reduce black deaths actually increased black deaths.

You're both transparently misrepresenting the purpose of police reform, and asserting a dubious causation to a general upswing in violent crimes.

What is the alternative explanation for the homicide spike starting May 2020 and primarily affecting black males?

Poverty? I'm not saying it's the answer. It's a suggestion of an idea for consideration among alternatives to your thesis.

Here is some data.

Income and Poverty in the United States: 2020

This report presents data on income, earnings, income inequality & poverty in the United States based on information collected in the 2021 and earlier CPS ASEC.

www.census.gov

2022 MEMPHIS POVERTY FACT SHEET

Economic stimulus checks to citizens helped to target families with children and so childhood poverty didn't take a big hit, but poverty increased in other areas.

Poverty didn't exist before May 2020?

Of course it did and at a different level pre-pandemic. What a bizarre hill you chose to die on.

Poverty does not explain the sudden homicide spike starting May 2020. Police not policing does.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Evasion. The point being made is that the end result of an effort to reduce black deaths actually increased black deaths.

You're both transparently misrepresenting the purpose of police reform, and asserting a dubious causation to a general upswing in violent crimes.

What is the alternative explanation for the homicide spike starting May 2020 and primarily affecting black males?

Poverty? I'm not saying it's the answer. It's a suggestion of an idea for consideration among alternatives to your thesis.

Here is some data.

Income and Poverty in the United States: 2020

This report presents data on income, earnings, income inequality & poverty in the United States based on information collected in the 2021 and earlier CPS ASEC.

www.census.gov

2022 MEMPHIS POVERTY FACT SHEET

Economic stimulus checks to citizens helped to target families with children and so childhood poverty didn't take a big hit, but poverty increased in other areas.

Poverty didn't exist before May 2020?

Of course it did and at a different level pre-pandemic. What a bizarre hill you chose to die on.

Poverty does not explain the sudden homicide spike starting May 2020. Police not policing does.

Why did the police choose to stop policing at the start of the pandemic?

 

[Oleg]

Evasion. The point being made is that the end result of an effort to reduce black deaths actually increased black deaths.

You're both transparently misrepresenting the purpose of police reform, and asserting a dubious causation to a general upswing in violent crimes.

What is the alternative explanation for the homicide spike starting May 2020 and primarily affecting black males?

Poverty? I'm not saying it's the answer. It's a suggestion of an idea for consideration among alternatives to your thesis.

Here is some data.

Income and Poverty in the United States: 2020

This report presents data on income, earnings, income inequality & poverty in the United States based on information collected in the 2021 and earlier CPS ASEC.

www.census.gov

2022 MEMPHIS POVERTY FACT SHEET

Economic stimulus checks to citizens helped to target families with children and so childhood poverty didn't take a big hit, but poverty increased in other areas.

Poverty didn't exist before May 2020?

Of course it did and at a different level pre-pandemic. What a bizarre hill you chose to die on.

Poverty does not explain the sudden homicide spike starting May 2020. Police not policing does.

Why did the police choose to stop policing at the start of the pandemic?

Not at the start of the pandemic. Then crime dropped. But in mid-May 2020, BLM began its carnage.

Drop in crime in Las Vegas during COVID-19 pandemic

Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department says there is a drop in crime in the city amid the COVID-19 pandemic.

www.ktnv.com

Coronavirus News: NYPD reports 20% drop in crime during COVID-19 emergency

Crime in New York City was down 20% during the last two weeks of March, when the city declared a coronavirus emergency, the NYPD said Thursday.

abc7ny.com

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Evasion. The point being made is that the end result of an effort to reduce black deaths actually increased black deaths.

You're both transparently misrepresenting the purpose of police reform, and asserting a dubious causation to a general upswing in violent crimes.

What is the alternative explanation for the homicide spike starting May 2020 and primarily affecting black males?

Poverty? I'm not saying it's the answer. It's a suggestion of an idea for consideration among alternatives to your thesis.

Here is some data.

Income and Poverty in the United States: 2020

This report presents data on income, earnings, income inequality & poverty in the United States based on information collected in the 2021 and earlier CPS ASEC.

www.census.gov

2022 MEMPHIS POVERTY FACT SHEET

Economic stimulus checks to citizens helped to target families with children and so childhood poverty didn't take a big hit, but poverty increased in other areas.

Poverty didn't exist before May 2020?

Of course it did and at a different level pre-pandemic. What a bizarre hill you chose to die on.

Poverty does not explain the sudden homicide spike starting May 2020. Police not policing does.

Why did the police choose to stop policing at the start of the pandemic?

Not at the start of the pandemic. Then crime dropped. But in mid-May 2020, BLM began its carnage.

Drop in crime in Las Vegas during COVID-19 pandemic

Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department says there is a drop in crime in the city amid the COVID-19 pandemic.

www.ktnv.com

Coronavirus News: NYPD reports 20% drop in crime during COVID-19 emergency

Crime in New York City was down 20% during the last two weeks of March, when the city declared a coronavirus emergency, the NYPD said Thursday.

abc7ny.com

Crime was increasing for some time in Memphis.

Try harder.

 

[Oleg]

Evasion. The point being made is that the end result of an effort to reduce black deaths actually increased black deaths.

You're both transparently misrepresenting the purpose of police reform, and asserting a dubious causation to a general upswing in violent crimes.

What is the alternative explanation for the homicide spike starting May 2020 and primarily affecting black males?

Poverty? I'm not saying it's the answer. It's a suggestion of an idea for consideration among alternatives to your thesis.

Here is some data.

Income and Poverty in the United States: 2020

This report presents data on income, earnings, income inequality & poverty in the United States based on information collected in the 2021 and earlier CPS ASEC.

www.census.gov

2022 MEMPHIS POVERTY FACT SHEET

Economic stimulus checks to citizens helped to target families with children and so childhood poverty didn't take a big hit, but poverty increased in other areas.

Poverty didn't exist before May 2020?

Of course it did and at a different level pre-pandemic. What a bizarre hill you chose to die on.

Poverty does not explain the sudden homicide spike starting May 2020. Police not policing does.

Why did the police choose to stop policing at the start of the pandemic?

Not at the start of the pandemic. Then crime dropped. But in mid-May 2020, BLM began its carnage.

Drop in crime in Las Vegas during COVID-19 pandemic

Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department says there is a drop in crime in the city amid the COVID-19 pandemic.

www.ktnv.com

Coronavirus News: NYPD reports 20% drop in crime during COVID-19 emergency

Crime in New York City was down 20% during the last two weeks of March, when the city declared a coronavirus emergency, the NYPD said Thursday.

abc7ny.com

Crime was increasing for some time in Memphis.

Try harder.

Are you just flat-out denying that there was a homicide spike of black males starting May 2020?

 

[laughing dog]

Yes, but the point was that they were trying to save black people and ended up with more black people dead due to their actions. The fact that more white people also ended up dead is irrelevant to the point.

They were trying to save black people from police violence.

So it doesn't matter how bad the result if the intent was good? You would throw the switch to divert the trolley from the track with one person to the track with ten people?

What are you babbling about now?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

The differences are quite understood. What isn't understood is why you are derailing a case where officers bludgeoned a person to death (of which you indicate first degree murder charges are appropriate) with comments about young black people killing other young black people. We are aware that this happens. There are a lot of organizations dedicated to dealing with that problem. If one is black and get murdered, most likely another black person will be the killer.

But that isn't what the thread is about. It is about another problem. A problem involving police, blacks and the animosity that exists between them.

The basic problem here is that you are treating these as independent things rather than recognizing they are linked. The BLM protesters got what they wanted--more passive police. The result killed a lot more than it saved.

* claim unsubstantiated

Evidence has already been presented and never addressed. Sticking your head in the sand doesn't make it go away.

Where has it been presented?

 

[TomC]

Crime was increasing for some time in Memphis.

Try harder.

What a bizarre hill you chose to die on

Tom

 

[Oleg]

The differences are quite understood. What isn't understood is why you are derailing a case where officers bludgeoned a person to death (of which you indicate first degree murder charges are appropriate) with comments about young black people killing other young black people. We are aware that this happens. There are a lot of organizations dedicated to dealing with that problem. If one is black and get murdered, most likely another black person will be the killer.

But that isn't what the thread is about. It is about another problem. A problem involving police, blacks and the animosity that exists between them.

The basic problem here is that you are treating these as independent things rather than recognizing they are linked. The BLM protesters got what they wanted--more passive police. The result killed a lot more than it saved.

* claim unsubstantiated

Evidence has already been presented and never addressed. Sticking your head in the sand doesn't make it go away.

Where has it been presented?

Minneapolis Police Experience Surge of Departures in Aftermath of George Floyd Protests (Published 2020)

The retention and recruitment problems that many police departments have experienced in recent years are especially pronounced after four Minneapolis officers were charged with Mr. Floyd’s death.

www.nytimes.com

Hands-Off Patrol

After Floyd's killing, Minneapolis police retreated, data shows

www.reuters.com

 

[TomC]

has it been presented?

Oleg #363
Tom

 

[Gospel]

This is a fact; Good policing works! Bad policing jeopardizes that work, that's what we're seeing.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

The differences are quite understood. What isn't understood is why you are derailing a case where officers bludgeoned a person to death (of which you indicate first degree murder charges are appropriate) with comments about young black people killing other young black people. We are aware that this happens. There are a lot of organizations dedicated to dealing with that problem. If one is black and get murdered, most likely another black person will be the killer.

But that isn't what the thread is about. It is about another problem. A problem involving police, blacks and the animosity that exists between them.

The basic problem here is that you are treating these as independent things rather than recognizing they are linked. The BLM protesters got what they wanted--more passive police. The result killed a lot more than it saved.

* claim unsubstantiated

Minneapolis Police Experience Surge of Departures in Aftermath of George Floyd Protests (Published 2020)

The retention and recruitment problems that many police departments have experienced in recent years are especially pronounced after four Minneapolis officers were charged with Mr. Floyd’s death.

www.nytimes.com

Hands-Off Patrol

After Floyd's killing, Minneapolis police retreated, data shows

www.reuters.com

Where are the statistics that more people were killed as a result of this? The murder rate in rural areas where the police aren't under this level of scrutiny also increased.

 

[TomC]

This is a fact; Good policing works! Bad policing jeopardizes that work, that's what we're seeing.

Did you read the article Oleg posted a link to from Reuters?

The reason I ask is because it expands the concept of bad policing a great deal.

Is it "bad policing" if the cops generally avoid trouble?
Tom

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Crime was increasing for some time in Memphis.

Try harder.

Are you just flat-out denying that there was a homicide spike of black males starting May 2020?

Murders rose in cities nationwide and jurisdictions of all types. Relative to 2019, the number of murders jumped by more than 30 percent in the largest cities and by 20 percent in places designated by the FBI as “suburban” — cities with fewer than 50,000 inhabitants that are within a Metropolitan Statistical Area. Murders rose by comparable levels in rural areas too — an important fact that is only now beginning to receive press attention.

link

 

[ZiprHead]

Evasion. The point being made is that the end result of an effort to reduce black deaths actually increased black deaths.

You're both transparently misrepresenting the purpose of police reform, and asserting a dubious causation to a general upswing in violent crimes.

I'm talking about the reality, not the purpose. You don't get to ignore the bad outcome and pretend it's not part of what you intended to do and therefore doesn't matter.

You have yet to prove it's the reality. All you're doing is guessing.