The death of Tyre Nichols

[Playball40]

I don't think that is your actual beef. I think you aren't happy with people not agreeing with you.

Because that's how I understood your post.

Maybe if you didn't consistently misrepresent me you'd wouldn't be so confused.
Possibly. I'm not holding my breath or anything.
Tom

So explain it better.

 

[Toni]

I don't think that is your actual beef. I think you aren't happy with people not agreeing with you.

Because that's how I understood your post.

Maybe if you didn't consistently misrepresent me you'd wouldn't be so confused.
Possibly. I'm not holding my breath or anything.
Tom

I was not aware that I misrepresented you.

What I have observed is that you make a post taking a position that is challenged by one or several posters. Sometimes you will say that wasn’t what you were saying but you don’t offer clarification. Your post is again disagreed with or challenged. You stick with your original statement and state that you are being misrepresented but you don’t offer any clarification.

I realize that you don’t see things in the same way but I’m not getting anything from you that lets me understand what it is that you did mean,

And so round and round we go.

 

[Rhea]

Maybe if you didn't consistently misrepresent me you'd wouldn't be so confused.
Possibly. I'm not holding my breath or anything.
Tom

Sometimes I ponder why a person would bother write a post saying “I’m so misunderstood!” instead of writing one that says “here’s what I meant.”

It’s interesting to think about. And lots of opportunities to ponder again, when they do it a dozen times.


Tom - why not spend the time clarifying what you DID mean?

 

[TomC]

Sometimes I ponder why a person would bother write a post saying “I’m so misunderstood!” instead of writing one that says “here’s what I meant.”

Can you quote me posting "I'm so misunderstood"?

Probably not.

But you can ignore what I do post and project a bunch of caricatures and misrepresentation and confidently expect the ideological purists on IIDB to follow suit.
Tom

 

[TomC]

Tom - why not spend the time clarifying what you DID mean?

You mean like all the many posts that get me responses such as

And it has become a Hillary Clinton email like response to these killings... "... but what about #BLM."

Tom

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

No one is dodging anything here, other than you.

Some black guys killed a black guy in Memphis.

Let's talk about black culture and violence.
Oh wait, that's not politically correct. Not Woke. Let's keep talking about cops.

Politically correct? Whites killing whites... let's talk about white culture. White culture only becomes a thing during mass shootings and complaining about media influences, otherwise, them just bad eggs. Some black dudes kill each other... and all of a sudden it becomes a minority cultural issue.

Also, wouldn't wokesters be defending the black officers and say something like that they were victims of racism and lashed out?

 

[bilby]

Can you quote me posting "I'm so misunderstood"?

Sure:

Sometimes I ponder why a person would bother write a post saying “I’m so misunderstood!” instead of writing one that says “here’s what I meant.”

Can you quote me posting "I'm so misunderstood"?

Probably not.

But you can ignore what I do post and project a bunch of caricatures and misrepresentation and confidently expect the ideological purists on IIDB to follow suit.
Tom

 

[Gospel]

Is this a thread about Tyre Nichols or an episode of


Anyhow, apparently fire department EMT's are in trouble as well. Allegedly the EMT's did nothing. I'm shocked.

Three Memphis Fire employees who responded to Tyre Nichols scene are fired

The three employees violated "numerous" policies and protocols, the department said.

www.cbsnews.com

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Can you quote me posting "I'm so misunderstood"?

Sure:

Sometimes I ponder why a person would bother write a post saying “I’m so misunderstood!” instead of writing one that says “here’s what I meant.”

Can you quote me posting "I'm so misunderstood"?

Probably not.

But you can ignore what I do post and project a bunch of caricatures and misrepresentation and confidently expect the ideological purists on IIDB to follow suit.
Tom

TomC is saying he is being misrepresented, implying we are making shit up, instead of having a difficult time parsing his meanings (misunderstanding). But oddly enough, he is quick to take of the knife and chop up responses to him and then attribute the stuff he has taken outside of the posted context as snark.

 

[laughing dog]

Can you quote me posting "I'm so misunderstood"?

Sure:

Sometimes I ponder why a person would bother write a post saying “I’m so misunderstood!” instead of writing one that says “here’s what I meant.”

Can you quote me posting "I'm so misunderstood"?

Probably not.

But you can ignore what I do post and project a bunch of caricatures and misrepresentation and confidently expect the ideological purists on IIDB to follow suit.
Tom

TomC is saying he is being misrepresented, implying we are making shit up, instead of having a difficult time parsing his meanings (misunderstanding).

To be fair, TomC spends more time flinging ad homs and whining about being misrepresented than actually explaining himself.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

But the record remains: you were blaming BLM for black people getting killed. And it turns out that was a lie some people are trying to promulgate, and they tricked you into adding your voice and passing on their lie.

And where was it proven a lie?

Where has this been rebutted: https://www.vox.com/22360290/black-lives-matter-protest-crime-ferguson-effects-murder

I'd like to solicit an alternative explanation as to why the black homicide rate exploded after Floyd's death.

Actually, the linked article indicates a possible 10% increase in murders with no reference to race, so perhaps the "explosion" in the black homicide rate is more in your mind?

Yes, but the point was that they were trying to save black people and ended up with more black people dead due to their actions. The fact that more white people also ended up dead is irrelevant to the point.

That police pulled back and criminals did their thing is pretty solid.

That would make any increase in crime the result of the choices and (in)action of the police.

Yes, the police felt they were being thrown under the bus and were less proactive as a result. A blind man should have been able see this coming, don't blame the police for responding as humans.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Come back when you have evidence instead of insults.

Come back when you've got evidence, better than "I can't access the internet when it doesn't suit me."

Lemme ask you this. Who killed more YBM? Cops or other YBM?
By what margin?
Tom

That does not support your claim that it's attraction/retention that is the factor. Especially since when I originally encountered this it was attributed to the police being less proactive rather than officer quality per se.

 

[Toni]

But the record remains: you were blaming BLM for black people getting killed. And it turns out that was a lie some people are trying to promulgate, and they tricked you into adding your voice and passing on their lie.

And where was it proven a lie?

Where has this been rebutted: https://www.vox.com/22360290/black-lives-matter-protest-crime-ferguson-effects-murder

I'd like to solicit an alternative explanation as to why the black homicide rate exploded after Floyd's death.

Actually, the linked article indicates a possible 10% increase in murders with no reference to race, so perhaps the "explosion" in the black homicide rate is more in your mind?

Yes, but the point was that they were trying to save black people and ended up with more black people dead due to their actions. The fact that more white people also ended up dead is irrelevant to the point.

That police pulled back and criminals did their thing is pretty solid.

That would make any increase in crime the result of the choices and (in)action of the police.

Yes, the police felt they were being thrown under the bus and were less proactive as a result. A blind man should have been able see this coming, don't blame the police for responding as humans.

WTF??????

The police beat a man to death because they feel under-appreciated???

Surely that’s not what you are saying? Surely you don’t mean that we stew supposed to be quiet and passive when police kill so many unarmed persons on such specious grounds?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Lemme ask you this. Who killed more YBM? Cops or other YBM?

Aside from presenting no evidence, you are comparing inequivalent things.

When common citizens murder each other, it's usually considered a crime, and the perpetrator, if caught, will go to jail provided that a jury of their peers becomes convinced that they are guilty of that crime.

When a police officer kills someone, it is far less clear whether justice will be possible to attain, and their victim's criminality is assumed despite never having faced the criterion of the law.

Evasion. The point being made is that the end result of an effort to reduce black deaths actually increased black deaths. I disagree with TomC about the exact mechanism by which this happened but the relationship is pretty clear. Or do you say one black dead at police hands is worse than 50 at the hands of criminals?

 

[Toni]

Is this a thread about Tyre Nichols or an episode of
View attachment 42177

Anyhow, apparently fire department EMT's are in trouble as well. Allegedly the EMT's did nothing. I'm shocked.

Three Memphis Fire employees who responded to Tyre Nichols scene are fired

The three employees violated "numerous" policies and protocols, the department said.

www.cbsnews.com

Yeah, I’ve been reading about that as well. It’s almost more disturbing.

 

[Toni]

Lemme ask you this. Who killed more YBM? Cops or other YBM?

Aside from presenting no evidence, you are comparing inequivalent things.

When common citizens murder each other, it's usually considered a crime, and the perpetrator, if caught, will go to jail provided that a jury of their peers becomes convinced that they are guilty of that crime.

When a police officer kills someone, it is far less clear whether justice will be possible to attain, and their victim's criminality is assumed despite never having faced the criterion of the law.

Evasion. The point being made is that the end result of an effort to reduce black deaths actually increased black deaths. I disagree with TomC about the exact mechanism by which this happened but the relationship is pretty clear. Or do you say one black dead at police hands is worse than 50 at the hands of criminals?

I think so. We expect criminals to commit crimes. We do not expect police to commit crimes.

 

[laughing dog]

Yes, but the point was that they were trying to save black people and ended up with more black people dead due to their actions. The fact that more white people also ended up dead is irrelevant to the point.

They were trying to save black people from police violence.

Yes, the police felt they were being thrown under the bus and were less proactive as a result. A blind man should have been able see this coming, don't blame the police for responding as humans.

Ignoring the fact that professionals are not supposed to respond in such ways, I am not blaming the policce. Your explanation makes them responsible - that is not my explanation.

I think that any uptick in violence was part of the human reaction to George Floyd's killing. I don't think the police could have prevented any of it.

 

[Toni]

Lemme ask you this. Who killed more YBM? Cops or other YBM?

Aside from presenting no evidence, you are comparing inequivalent things.

When common citizens murder each other, it's usually considered a crime, and the perpetrator, if caught, will go to jail provided that a jury of their peers becomes convinced that they are guilty of that crime.

When a police officer kills someone, it is far less clear whether justice will be possible to attain, and their victim's criminality is assumed despite never having faced the criterion of the law.

Evasion. The point being made is that the end result of an effort to reduce black deaths actually increased black deaths. I disagree with TomC about the exact mechanism by which this happened but the relationship is pretty clear. Or do you say one black dead at police hands is worse than 50 at the hands of criminals?

No evasion, Loren. He’s just making a more nuanced point than the police = good; everybody killed by police were dirty rotten criminals who had it coming argument you typically make.

Here’s the thing: Police are paid to serve and protect. They represent ordinary citizens.
I’m opposed to the death penalty, full stop. But especially when carried out by police officers, without the benefit of a trial with legal representation, a verdict, and where found guilty, a sentence.

 

[lpetrich]

I concede that I'm disappointed that the BLM activists have not tried to organize vigilante squads as an alternative to the police. Like what the Black Panther militants did around 1970.

 

[Toni]

I concede that I'm disappointed that the BLM activists have not tried to organize vigilante squads as an alternative to the police. Like what the Black Panther militants did around 1970.

I’m not. There’s a lot more firepower out there these days. Talk about mass bloodshed and a new civil war. Leave that shit to the insurrectionists. They recorded themselves and thankfully managed to only kill a few.