The death of Tyre Nichols

[lpetrich]

I concede that I'm disappointed that the BLM activists have not tried to organize vigilante squads as an alternative to the police. Like what the Black Panther militants did around 1970.

I’m not. There’s a lot more firepower out there these days. Talk about mass bloodshed and a new civil war. Leave that shit to the insurrectionists. They recorded themselves and thankfully managed to only kill a few.

I can understand that. But they'd have to be unarmed or else armed only with low-lethality weapons like baseball bats and pepper spray and Tasers. They may also wear body armor. I think that they will have to be careful about rules of engagement, and they may travel in groups of 2 or 3.

 

[Politesse]

Evasion. The point being made is that the end result of an effort to reduce black deaths actually increased black deaths.

You're both transparently misrepresenting the purpose of police reform, and asserting a dubious causation to a general upswing in violent crimes.

 

[Derec]

You're both transparently misrepresenting the purpose of police reform, and asserting a dubious causation to a general upswing in violent crimes.

There are good reforms, and bad reforms. It's not necessarily what the purpose of a reform is, but its results, both intended and unintended.

 

[Gospel]

don't blame the police for responding as humans.

No point in courts & jails then because we ought not blame civilians for responding like humans either.

 

[Gospel]

I concede that I'm disappointed that the BLM activists have not tried to organize vigilante squads as an alternative to the police. Like what the Black Panther militants did around 1970.

It's so tempting to delve deeper into this derail I'll just say that every time black people tried to fix our own issue, some ignorant woke whites of those times would make sure we couldn't. I'll leave it at that. Now we have a black community completely out of control and its "WHY YALL DONT ORGINIZSE AND STOP KILLING EACH OTHER!. smh

 

[Politesse]

I concede that I'm disappointed that the BLM activists have not tried to organize vigilante squads as an alternative to the police. Like what the Black Panther militants did around 1970.

I'm disappointed that you apparently are unaware of how that effort ended.

America murders its heroes.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The differences are quite understood. What isn't understood is why you are derailing a case where officers bludgeoned a person to death (of which you indicate first degree murder charges are appropriate) with comments about young black people killing other young black people. We are aware that this happens. There are a lot of organizations dedicated to dealing with that problem. If one is black and get murdered, most likely another black person will be the killer.

But that isn't what the thread is about. It is about another problem. A problem involving police, blacks and the animosity that exists between them.

The basic problem here is that you are treating these as independent things rather than recognizing they are linked. The BLM protesters got what they wanted--more passive police. The result killed a lot more than it saved.

 

[Oleg]

Evasion. The point being made is that the end result of an effort to reduce black deaths actually increased black deaths.

You're both transparently misrepresenting the purpose of police reform, and asserting a dubious causation to a general upswing in violent crimes.

What is the alternative explanation for the homicide spike starting May 2020 and primarily affecting black males?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

The differences are quite understood. What isn't understood is why you are derailing a case where officers bludgeoned a person to death (of which you indicate first degree murder charges are appropriate) with comments about young black people killing other young black people. We are aware that this happens. There are a lot of organizations dedicated to dealing with that problem. If one is black and get murdered, most likely another black person will be the killer.

But that isn't what the thread is about. It is about another problem. A problem involving police, blacks and the animosity that exists between them.

The basic problem here is that you are treating these as independent things rather than recognizing they are linked. The BLM protesters got what they wanted--more passive police. The result killed a lot more than it saved.

* claim unsubstantiated

 

[Toni]

The differences are quite understood. What isn't understood is why you are derailing a case where officers bludgeoned a person to death (of which you indicate first degree murder charges are appropriate) with comments about young black people killing other young black people. We are aware that this happens. There are a lot of organizations dedicated to dealing with that problem. If one is black and get murdered, most likely another black person will be the killer.

But that isn't what the thread is about. It is about another problem. A problem involving police, blacks and the animosity that exists between them.

The basic problem here is that you are treating these as independent things rather than recognizing they are linked. The BLM protesters got what they wanted--more passive police. The result killed a lot more than it saved.

The police are far from passive—and they are heavily more armed and increasingly receive military type training. Police are not supposed to behave as an occupying force tasked with keeping control of the citizenry.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Yes, the police felt they were being thrown under the bus and were less proactive as a result. A blind man should have been able see this coming, don't blame the police for responding as humans.

WTF??????

The police beat a man to death because they feel under-appreciated???

Surely that’s not what you are saying? Surely you don’t mean that we stew supposed to be quiet and passive when police kill so many unarmed persons on such specious grounds?

Did I say "under-appreciated"?? No! I said "thrown under the bus". And that's what we have here. Two of the people fired in this case weren't even there--they're being fired to appease the public rather than as the result of a proper investigation.

I fully agree with firing the ones that beat him. This is a clear case of the sort of problem I've been talking about for years--police applying street justice. He ran, they punished him by beating him. However, the firings went beyond that. Next time around the police are going to be less interested in acting on what they see because they saw that simply being in proximity to wrongdoing can get you fired.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Yes, the police felt they were being thrown under the bus and were less proactive as a result. A blind man should have been able see this coming, don't blame the police for responding as humans.

WTF??????

The police beat a man to death because they feel under-appreciated???

Surely that’s not what you are saying? Surely you don’t mean that we stew supposed to be quiet and passive when police kill so many unarmed persons on such specious grounds?

Did I say "under-appreciated"?? No! I said "thrown under the bus". And that's what we have here. Two of the people fired in this case weren't even there--they're being fired to appease the public rather than as the result of a proper investigation.

I fully agree with firing the ones that beat him. This is a clear case of the sort of problem I've been talking about for years--police applying street justice. He ran, they punished him by beating him. However, the firings went beyond that. Next time around the police are going to be less interested in acting on what they see because they saw that simply being in proximity to wrongdoing can get you fired.

They weren't fired for responding, they were fired for beating someone severely. They are going to prison for murdering the person.

 

[Toni]

Yes, the police felt they were being thrown under the bus and were less proactive as a result. A blind man should have been able see this coming, don't blame the police for responding as humans.

WTF??????

The police beat a man to death because they feel under-appreciated???

Surely that’s not what you are saying? Surely you don’t mean that we stew supposed to be quiet and passive when police kill so many unarmed persons on such specious grounds?

Did I say "under-appreciated"?? No! I said "thrown under the bus". And that's what we have here. Two of the people fired in this case weren't even there--they're being fired to appease the public rather than as the result of a proper investigation.

I fully agree with firing the ones that beat him. This is a clear case of the sort of problem I've been talking about for years--police applying street justice. He ran, they punished him by beating him. However, the firings went beyond that. Next time around the police are going to be less interested in acting on what they see because they saw that simply being in proximity to wrongdoing can get you fired.

Neither of us know exactly what the actions of officers not present at the beating were.

You ASSUME that they were fired to appease people—people who, btw, are really rightfully outraged.

Police departments historically are not given to firing officers lightly. Many/most(?) are unionized, meaning that there are extra procedural protections for officers.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Yes, but the point was that they were trying to save black people and ended up with more black people dead due to their actions. The fact that more white people also ended up dead is irrelevant to the point.

They were trying to save black people from police violence.

So it doesn't matter how bad the result if the intent was good? You would throw the switch to divert the trolley from the track with one person to the track with ten people?

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Evasion. The point being made is that the end result of an effort to reduce black deaths actually increased black deaths.

You're both transparently misrepresenting the purpose of police reform, and asserting a dubious causation to a general upswing in violent crimes.

What is the alternative explanation for the homicide spike starting May 2020 and primarily affecting black males?

Poverty? I'm not saying it's the answer. It's a suggestion of an idea for consideration among alternatives to your thesis.

Here is some data.

Income and Poverty in the United States: 2020

This report presents data on income, earnings, income inequality & poverty in the United States based on information collected in the 2021 and earlier CPS ASEC.

www.census.gov

2022 MEMPHIS POVERTY FACT SHEET

Economic stimulus checks to citizens helped to target families with children and so childhood poverty didn't take a big hit, but poverty increased in other areas.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Evasion. The point being made is that the end result of an effort to reduce black deaths actually increased black deaths.

You're both transparently misrepresenting the purpose of police reform, and asserting a dubious causation to a general upswing in violent crimes.

I'm talking about the reality, not the purpose. You don't get to ignore the bad outcome and pretend it's not part of what you intended to do and therefore doesn't matter.

 

[Gospel]

Evasion. The point being made is that the end result of an effort to reduce black deaths actually increased black deaths.

You're both transparently misrepresenting the purpose of police reform, and asserting a dubious causation to a general upswing in violent crimes.

What is the alternative explanation for the homicide spike starting May 2020 and primarily affecting black males?

Self hatred passed down from generation to generation within the homes of black people spilling out into streets of the community. Now that you know, got any ideas on what to do about it?

Edit: This was not an "alternative answer" by the way. I'm not interested in feeding your bullshit idea of folks running away from the issue. I'm willing to talk about it, are you? And by talk about It I don't mean just blasting out statistics but meaningful solutions to what statistics show.

 

[Oleg]

The differences are quite understood. What isn't understood is why you are derailing a case where officers bludgeoned a person to death (of which you indicate first degree murder charges are appropriate) with comments about young black people killing other young black people. We are aware that this happens. There are a lot of organizations dedicated to dealing with that problem. If one is black and get murdered, most likely another black person will be the killer.

But that isn't what the thread is about. It is about another problem. A problem involving police, blacks and the animosity that exists between them.

The basic problem here is that you are treating these as independent things rather than recognizing they are linked. The BLM protesters got what they wanted--more passive police. The result killed a lot more than it saved.

* claim unsubstantiated

Minneapolis Police Experience Surge of Departures in Aftermath of George Floyd Protests (Published 2020)

The retention and recruitment problems that many police departments have experienced in recent years are especially pronounced after four Minneapolis officers were charged with Mr. Floyd’s death.

www.nytimes.com

Hands-Off Patrol

After Floyd's killing, Minneapolis police retreated, data shows

www.reuters.com

 

[Oleg]

Evasion. The point being made is that the end result of an effort to reduce black deaths actually increased black deaths.

You're both transparently misrepresenting the purpose of police reform, and asserting a dubious causation to a general upswing in violent crimes.

What is the alternative explanation for the homicide spike starting May 2020 and primarily affecting black males?

Poverty? I'm not saying it's the answer. It's a suggestion of an idea for consideration among alternatives to your thesis.

Here is some data.

Income and Poverty in the United States: 2020

This report presents data on income, earnings, income inequality & poverty in the United States based on information collected in the 2021 and earlier CPS ASEC.

www.census.gov

2022 MEMPHIS POVERTY FACT SHEET

Economic stimulus checks to citizens helped to target families with children and so childhood poverty didn't take a big hit, but poverty increased in other areas.

Poverty didn't exist before May 2020?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The differences are quite understood. What isn't understood is why you are derailing a case where officers bludgeoned a person to death (of which you indicate first degree murder charges are appropriate) with comments about young black people killing other young black people. We are aware that this happens. There are a lot of organizations dedicated to dealing with that problem. If one is black and get murdered, most likely another black person will be the killer.

But that isn't what the thread is about. It is about another problem. A problem involving police, blacks and the animosity that exists between them.

The basic problem here is that you are treating these as independent things rather than recognizing they are linked. The BLM protesters got what they wanted--more passive police. The result killed a lot more than it saved.

* claim unsubstantiated

Evidence has already been presented and never addressed. Sticking your head in the sand doesn't make it go away.