China Prepares for War - Our Response?

[SLD]

If they do attack Taiwan, we at least should use the SWIFT nuclear response.

Swift was a failed thermonuclear artillery shell tested in the Redwing Yuma shot at Eniwetok Atoll in May 1956. The fission stage was of insufficient yield to ignite the fusion boost stage. Its design was redeveloped as the basis for the successful W54 nuclear artillery shell.

I do not recommend using these against China, unless they use nuclear weapons first.

I also do not recommend using the word "nuclear" as a hyperbolic description of a mere economic sanction. It's possibility of causing dangerous misunderstandings is too high.

You didn’t watch the video! SWIFT is a payment system for international transactions. Russia threatened war if we used it against them, by cutting them off, but I think we should call their bluff. Without it, selling oil to India becomes difficult.

 

[bilby]

You didn’t watch the video!

I don't watch online videos, and I sincerely doubt that if I had, my response would have been any different.

SWIFT is a payment system for international transactions.

I know.

But in the context of "nuclear", it's an experimental thermonuclear artillery shell.

For safety's sake, nuclear armed nations should refrain from using the phrase "nuclear response" to describe anything that's not literally a nuclear response.

 

[SLD]

You didn’t watch the video!

I don't watch online videos, and I sincerely doubt that if I had, my response would have been any different.

SWIFT is a payment system for international transactions.

I know.

But in the context of "nuclear", it's an experimental thermonuclear artillery shell.

For safety's sake, nuclear armed nations should refrain from using the phrase "nuclear response" to describe anything that's not literally a nuclear response.

Ok.

 

[barbos]

Your response should be obvious - don't start it.

Wouldn't that be the logical response for every country? After all, what's the rationale in gearing up for a massive war if it would result in global annihilation? Why not just launch the missiles and expedite the inevitable? The idea is silly to me.

US started War with Russia and thinking about starting war with China.
There is an interesting shit going on with American foreign policy journals.
Apparently they were/are editing old articles to look like they were not advocating starting war with Russia.
Unfortunately for them, there is internet archive

 

[barbos]

I don't know how a full scale naval battle would go today. I am sure our military has gamed it our with simulations.

It was reported that US loses badly.

The CCP is crazy, they are living in an anti west delusional revolution ideology. Fanatical.

They are crazy? what about you during Cuban missile crisis?
Or even Vietnam War? why did you start it? why?

 

[barbos]

Our Navy is hands down 10x better than theirs.

True, but their anti-ship missiles are 10x better than your Navy. Submarines can not be used for transport.
And we really don't know how good your submarines are against chinese and russians for that matter.

 

[SLD]

Our Navy is hands down 10x better than theirs.

True, but their anti-ship missiles are 10x better than your Navy. Submarines can not be used for transport.
And we really don't know how good your submarines are against chinese and russians for that matter.

We don’t need to transport Jack. We just need to destroy their navy. The. The big ships can go in. As for how well our subs will do, they’ll do fine. They will destroy any invading force headed for taiwan. They could flood the straights with smart torpedoes, and those ships would never know what hit them. they would not no how to even find our subs to strike back. Sub on sub warfare would be rare.

 

[barbos]

We don’t need to transport Jack. We just need to destroy their navy

What for? they are not going to use it for anything.

They will destroy any invading force headed for taiwan.

Well, as I said, your own war games consistently show that you lose, consistently.

 

[steve_bank]

We don’t need to transport Jack. We just need to destroy their navy

What for? they are not going to use it for anything.

They will destroy any invading force headed for taiwan.

Well, as I said, your own war games consistently show that you lose, consistently.

Meanwhile Russia is consistently losing in Ukraine.

After the VN war China invaded Vietam and got their butts kicked out.

China seized Tibet saying historically it was part of China. Same reasoning as Taiwan. The Tibetans had no defense at all.

China could subdue Taiwan as Russia is doing in Ukraine, but then there would be noting left of te manufacturing infrastructure. And as in Russia in Ukraine it would not be so easy to invade.

China bullies Philippine fishing ships in international waters and harasses aircraft and ships in the South China Sea it arbitrarily claimed. If China actually provoked a military American response they would regret it. America and our allies have a lot of combat experience and cooperation. An attack on the US would bring in NATO. There is a new military alliance with Australia secfclly to counter China. Vietnam joins naval exercises.

China has Russia and North Korea. Useless. If NK used nuclear weapons its capital would be quickly turned to glass with our nukes.

China economically needs the US more than we need China, ad that dependence on China is diminishing, and not just us. The result of their irrational stupid belligerence.

Hong Kong was a major economic asset for China. Banking, finance, and commerce. The CCP destroyed that by its forced subjugation and imposition of the mind numbing CCP ideolgy and control.

 

[barbos]

Meanwhile Russia is consistently losing in Ukraine.

Sure, whatever you believe.

 

[barbos]

Same reasoning as Taiwan

Taiwan IS China. Even Taiwanese know that, they just don't like CCP rule.

 

[barbos]

China has Russia

Well, China is not interested in Western regime change in Russia.

 

[Elixir]

hey are crazy? what about you during Cuban missile crisis?

Yeah, how about that! Russia got found out and had to cart all their toys back to their shithole country.

 

[steve_bank]

China has Russia

Well, China is not interested in Western regime change in Russia.

Nobody would care what goes on in Russia if Putin had not invaded Ukraine. Stupid self destructive belligerence. The Russian people are paying for it economically, with casualties in the war, and isolation from the rest of the world. Except China and Cuba.

We would not care about who runs China if China is not claiming inernational waters and threatening free maritime trade and free passage.

Global free trade and free maritime shipping is what brought China out of its Maoist failed communist economic misery. Stupid Chinese belligerence.

If China landed troops on Taiwan it would not be like Tibet or Hong Kong. People are armed and would be fighting to protect their homeland and family.

The word would see Chinese brutality on daily TV, as in Ukraine. In he end China loses if it attacks Taiwan even if it takes control of Taiwan by force.

Even if Putin manages to take control of Ukraine he and Russia has lost more than it gains.

 

[SLD]

We don’t need to transport Jack. We just need to destroy their navy

What for? they are not going to use it for anything.

They will destroy any invading force headed for taiwan.

Well, as I said, your own war games consistently show that you lose, consistently.

I’m sure your wargaming showed you’d capture Kiev in two weeks.

But I doubt seriously that you understand wargaming at all.

 

[ZiprHead]

We don’t need to transport Jack. We just need to destroy their navy

What for? they are not going to use it for anything.

They will destroy any invading force headed for taiwan.

Well, as I said, your own war games consistently show that you lose, consistently.

Proof?

Oh, who the hell am I kidding...

 

[steve_bank]

Here in Seattle it is a beautiful day. Warm, sunny, and breezy.

To all the Chinese and Russians who surf the net looking for criticism, I sincerely wish you all a very pleasant day. It sucks working weekends.

 

[steve_bank]

Taiwan has about 23 million people. The idea that he CCP will force them with their generational experience of a democratic process and civil rights is ridiculous. It is the old communist ideology, indoctrination and rigid control.

In the news China set up what amounts to illegal police stations where they intimidate Chinese ex pats in the USA.

I have no doubt there are Chinese agents here in Chinatown which is a hub for Chinese immigrants.

Two Arrested for Operating Illegal Overseas Police Station of the Chinese Government

A complaint was unsealed today in federal court in Brooklyn, New York, charging two defendants in connection with opening and operating an illegal overseas police station, located in lower Manhattan, New York, for a provincial branch of the Ministry of Public Security (MPS) of the People’s...

www.justice.gov

A complaint was unsealed today in federal court in Brooklyn, New York, charging two defendants in connection with opening and operating an illegal overseas police station, located in lower Manhattan, New York, for a provincial branch of the Ministry of Public Security (MPS) of the People’s Republic of China (PRC). “Harry” Lu Jianwang, 61, of the Bronx, and Chen Jinping, 59, of Manhattan, were arrested earlier this morning at their homes in New York City. Their initial appearances are scheduled this afternoon in Brooklyn before U.S. Magistrate Judge Ramon E. Reyes Jr.

“The PRC, through its repressive security apparatus, established a secret physical presence in New York City to monitor and intimidate dissidents and those critical of its government,” said Assistant Attorney General Matthew G. Olsen of the Justice Department’s National Security Division. “The PRC’s actions go far beyond the bounds of acceptable nation-state conduct. We will resolutely defend the freedoms of all those living in our country from the threat of authoritarian repression.”

“This prosecution reveals the Chinese government’s flagrant violation of our nation’s sovereignty by establishing a secret police station in the middle of New York City,” said U.S. Attorney Breon Peace for the Eastern District of New York. “As alleged, the defendants and their co-conspirators were tasked with doing the PRC’s bidding, including helping locate a Chinese dissident living in the United States, and obstructed our investigation by deleting their communications. Such a police station has no place here in New York City – or any American community.”

“It is simply outrageous that China’s Ministry of Public Security thinks it can get away with establishing a secret, illegal police station on U.S. soil to aid its efforts to export repression and subvert our rule of law,” said Acting Assistant Director Kurt Ronnow of the FBI Counterintelligence Division. “This case serves as a powerful reminder that the People’s Republic of China will stop at nothing to bend people to their will and silence messages they don’t want anyone to hear. The FBI is dedicated to protecting everyone in the United States against efforts to undermine our democratic freedoms, and we’ll hold any state actors – and those who help them – accountable for breaking our laws.”

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Our Navy is hands down 10x better than theirs.

True, but their anti-ship missiles are 10x better than your Navy. Submarines can not be used for transport.
And we really don't know how good your submarines are against chinese and russians for that matter.

We know Russian can barely sortie it's boomers. You have quite publicly lost multiple subs. We saw what happened when you tried to deploy your carrier to Syria. Yes, you have big, fast anti-ship missiles--but you've been lobbing them indiscriminately into Ukraine. And even if your ships still have missiles you'll have a very hard time getting accurate targeting info to shoot with.

China is another matter--it has some modern units. It's also got a bunch of old junk that would be little more than targets if war broke out.

There have been wargames where we lost badly to small forces but they all involve surprise attacks when there is a bunch of "neutral" shipping around.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

We don’t need to transport Jack. We just need to destroy their navy. The. The big ships can go in. As for how well our subs will do, they’ll do fine. They will destroy any invading force headed for taiwan. They could flood the straights with smart torpedoes, and those ships would never know what hit them. they would not no how to even find our subs to strike back. Sub on sub warfare would be rare.

I don't think we would even need to control the straight. All that's needed is the ability to deny it to China--and forcing a landing against modern forces is very hard. China probably can't do it against what Taiwan has now. Mobile anti-ship missiles are very hard to kill before they launch and the defenders had better shoot it down very quickly to protect the landing ship--but if they're going to doodle around guarding it they're putting themselves in the MANPAD envelope.

As a ship approaches flight time for an anti-ship missile will be well under a minute--they won't be an easy kill.