To Give You a Size of the Immense and Growing Size of Illegal Immigration

[TomC]

So, just hold your nose and vote blue.

This reads a whole lot like "Vote Democrat or you're an evil person"

I kinda think that myself.

I'm old. I've watched the decline of the Republican party from the Reagan years to the Trump administration. It went from one version of a vision of America, 40 years ago, to a bunch of lying grifters with no interest in the people of this country.

As much as I find to criticize the Democratic party over, I became a straight ticket Democrat voter in 2010. And ever since, the Teaparty Republicans have proven me right.

Seriously, they're voting for Trump because he's a Christian?
Tom

 

[ZiprHead]

View attachment 45305

Look at all those commie countries.

https://www.imf.org/external/datamapper/exp@FPP/USA/FRA/JPN/GBR/SWE/ESP/ITA/ZAF/IND

What criteria and sorting are you using for the image you posted?

I'm not using anything. It was a screen grab from the link I posted.

 

[Emily Lake]

View attachment 45305

Look at all those commie countries.

https://www.imf.org/external/datamapper/exp@FPP/USA/FRA/JPN/GBR/SWE/ESP/ITA/ZAF/IND

What criteria and sorting are you using for the image you posted?

I'm not using anything. It was a screen grab from the link I posted.

I can't figure out how to make it limit to the specific countries you selected. Sounds like it's a me problem though

 

[Emily Lake]

So, just hold your nose and vote blue.

This reads a whole lot like "Vote Democrat or you're an evil person"

I kinda think that myself.

I'm old. I've watched the decline of the Republican party from the Reagan years to the Trump administration. It went from one version of a vision of America, 40 years ago, to a bunch of lying grifters with no interest in the people of this country.

As much as I find to criticize the Democratic party over, I became a straight ticket Democrat voter in 2010. And ever since, the Teaparty Republicans have proven me right.

Seriously, they're voting for Trump because he's a Christian?
Tom

Problem is, this mindset is how you start a civil war.

I'm extremely concerned about the tendency of people partisans on both sides of the aisle to completely demonize the other side. There's always been some element of this involved, but the breadth and divisiveness has grown dramatically since somewhere in the middle of Obama's term. It existed before that though - there was already some of it in place back during Clinton's presidency, probably before then though I was too young to have a good grasp of it back then. But it's gotten so much worse.

I am concerned that we're hurtling toward a cliff that's going to result in the abolition of the 1st amendment. We've got two opposing parties, both of which want to force ideological conformity, and both of which view anyone on the other side as people with evil beliefs that shouldn't be allowed.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

So, just hold your nose and vote blue.

This reads a whole lot like "Vote Democrat or you're an evil person"

I kinda think that myself.

I'm old. I've watched the decline of the Republican party from the Reagan years to the Trump administration. It went from one version of a vision of America, 40 years ago, to a bunch of lying grifters with no interest in the people of this country.

As much as I find to criticize the Democratic party over, I became a straight ticket Democrat voter in 2010. And ever since, the Teaparty Republicans have proven me right.

Seriously, they're voting for Trump because he's a Christian?
Tom

Problem is, this mindset is how you start a civil war.

I'm extremely concerned about the tendency of people partisans on both sides of the aisle to completely demonize the other side. There's always been some element of this involved, but the breadth and divisiveness has grown dramatically since somewhere in the middle of Obama's term. It existed before that though - there was already some of it in place back during Clinton's presidency, probably before then though I was too young to have a good grasp of it back then. But it's gotten so much worse.

I am concerned that we're hurtling toward a cliff that's going to result in the abolition of the 1st amendment. We've got two opposing parties, both of which want to force ideological conformity, and both of which view anyone on the other side as people with evil beliefs that shouldn't be allowed.

Actually this has been around as long as the country. We're still here as a nation because there have always been larger threats and that's likely to continue. I'm not saying we shouldn't try to come together more, solve our differences as adults, only that it isn't something new for us or for any country.

 

[Emily Lake]

So, just hold your nose and vote blue.

This reads a whole lot like "Vote Democrat or you're an evil person"

I kinda think that myself.

I'm old. I've watched the decline of the Republican party from the Reagan years to the Trump administration. It went from one version of a vision of America, 40 years ago, to a bunch of lying grifters with no interest in the people of this country.

As much as I find to criticize the Democratic party over, I became a straight ticket Democrat voter in 2010. And ever since, the Teaparty Republicans have proven me right.

Seriously, they're voting for Trump because he's a Christian?
Tom

Problem is, this mindset is how you start a civil war.

I'm extremely concerned about the tendency of people partisans on both sides of the aisle to completely demonize the other side. There's always been some element of this involved, but the breadth and divisiveness has grown dramatically since somewhere in the middle of Obama's term. It existed before that though - there was already some of it in place back during Clinton's presidency, probably before then though I was too young to have a good grasp of it back then. But it's gotten so much worse.

I am concerned that we're hurtling toward a cliff that's going to result in the abolition of the 1st amendment. We've got two opposing parties, both of which want to force ideological conformity, and both of which view anyone on the other side as people with evil beliefs that shouldn't be allowed.

Actually this has been around as long as the country. We're still here as a nation because there have always been larger threats and that's likely to continue. I'm not saying we shouldn't try to come together more, solve our differences as adults, only that it isn't something new for us or for any country.

It's always been around, yes. But the schism has grown significantly and measurably.
 Political polarization in the United States

As Partisan Hostility Grows, Signs of Frustration With the Two-Party System

Increasingly, Republicans and Democrats view not just the opposing party but also the people in that party in a negative light. Growing shares in each party now describe those in the other party as more closed-minded, dishonest, immoral and unintelligent than other Americans. Nearly half of...

www.pewresearch.org

 

[ZiprHead]

View attachment 45305

Look at all those commie countries.

https://www.imf.org/external/datamapper/exp@FPP/USA/FRA/JPN/GBR/SWE/ESP/ITA/ZAF/IND

What criteria and sorting are you using for the image you posted?

I'm not using anything. It was a screen grab from the link I posted.

I can't figure out how to make it limit to the specific countries you selected. Sounds like it's a me problem though

I just told you I didn't select those on that list.

 

[Emily Lake]

View attachment 45305

Look at all those commie countries.

https://www.imf.org/external/datamapper/exp@FPP/USA/FRA/JPN/GBR/SWE/ESP/ITA/ZAF/IND

What criteria and sorting are you using for the image you posted?

I'm not using anything. It was a screen grab from the link I posted.

I can't figure out how to make it limit to the specific countries you selected. Sounds like it's a me problem though

I just told you I didn't select those on that list.

It gave me a list of way way more countries, and France and the US were nowhere near each other. I'm sure there's some selector somewhere, and it's a failure on my part to find it. I wasn't challenging what you posted - I just can't figure out how to limit the list the way you did

 

[Shadowy Man]

I'm extremely concerned about the tendency of people partisans on both sides of the aisle to completely demonize the other side.

it’s a problem both sides but not an equal problem on both sides.

Look at republicans trying to censure Senator Lankford, a staunch conservative Republican, for daring to do his job and write a bill that can be passed. Or what they did to Liz Cheney for voicing dissent against the President. They even demonize their own people if they don’t buy into the cult!!

I have not seen equivalent actions on the Democrats and it is arguable that the people they do demonize (the MAGA extremists who have lost touch with reality) aren’t deserving of it.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

So, just hold your nose and vote blue.

This reads a whole lot like "Vote Democrat or you're an evil person"

I kinda think that myself.

I'm old. I've watched the decline of the Republican party from the Reagan years to the Trump administration. It went from one version of a vision of America, 40 years ago, to a bunch of lying grifters with no interest in the people of this country.

As much as I find to criticize the Democratic party over, I became a straight ticket Democrat voter in 2010. And ever since, the Teaparty Republicans have proven me right.

Seriously, they're voting for Trump because he's a Christian?
Tom

Problem is, this mindset is how you start a civil war.

I'm extremely concerned about the tendency of people partisans on both sides of the aisle to completely demonize the other side. There's always been some element of this involved, but the breadth and divisiveness has grown dramatically since somewhere in the middle of Obama's term. It existed before that though - there was already some of it in place back during Clinton's presidency, probably before then though I was too young to have a good grasp of it back then. But it's gotten so much worse.

I am concerned that we're hurtling toward a cliff that's going to result in the abolition of the 1st amendment. We've got two opposing parties, both of which want to force ideological conformity, and both of which view anyone on the other side as people with evil beliefs that shouldn't be allowed.

Actually this has been around as long as the country. We're still here as a nation because there have always been larger threats and that's likely to continue. I'm not saying we shouldn't try to come together more, solve our differences as adults, only that it isn't something new for us or for any country.

It's always been around, yes. But the schism has grown significantly and measurably.
 Political polarization in the United States

As Partisan Hostility Grows, Signs of Frustration With the Two-Party System

Increasingly, Republicans and Democrats view not just the opposing party but also the people in that party in a negative light. Growing shares in each party now describe those in the other party as more closed-minded, dishonest, immoral and unintelligent than other Americans. Nearly half of...

www.pewresearch.org

Why do you think a majority of republicans claim that there was election fraud, that Trump won and Biden didn't? I think I know why and I think it addresses the partisan issue.

 

[ZiprHead]

View attachment 45305

Look at all those commie countries.

https://www.imf.org/external/datamapper/exp@FPP/USA/FRA/JPN/GBR/SWE/ESP/ITA/ZAF/IND

What criteria and sorting are you using for the image you posted?

I'm not using anything. It was a screen grab from the link I posted.

I can't figure out how to make it limit to the specific countries you selected. Sounds like it's a me problem though

I just told you I didn't select those on that list.

It gave me a list of way way more countries, and France and the US were nowhere near each other. I'm sure there's some selector somewhere, and it's a failure on my part to find it. I wasn't challenging what you posted - I just can't figure out how to limit the list the way you did

How many times do I have to say it? I didn't limit anything. The list was there when I got to the site. And it's still there. It's also in the link text.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

So, just hold your nose and vote blue.

This reads a whole lot like "Vote Democrat or you're an evil person"

I kinda think that myself.

I'm old. I've watched the decline of the Republican party from the Reagan years to the Trump administration. It went from one version of a vision of America, 40 years ago, to a bunch of lying grifters with no interest in the people of this country.

As much as I find to criticize the Democratic party over, I became a straight ticket Democrat voter in 2010. And ever since, the Teaparty Republicans have proven me right.

Seriously, they're voting for Trump because he's a Christian?
Tom

Problem is, this mindset is how you start a civil war.

Yes, this alt-right Trump or riot mindset is a potential path to violence. There will be no war.

I'm extremely concerned about the tendency of people partisans on both sides of the aisle to completely demonize the other side.

Yeah... I remember when Democrats were accused of siding with (being paid by) Saddam Hussein just because they thought the Iraq invasion was a bad idea.

Or how Limbaugh said al Qaeda wanted John Kerry to win in '04.

Or how anti-Muslim sentiment was shot out at Barrack Hussein Obama in '08.

"Death panels".

Or how after knowing he lost the election, Trump incited a riot on January 6th.

To fucking hell with this "both sides" shit.

Democrat base are partisan, a strong minority of the GOP base have become vile and the majority of that base don't seem capable of managing it. To the point that they re radicalizing behind them... with many more Republicans supporting the events on 1/6/21 than on 1/7/21.

 

[ZiprHead]

Who cares how the list was created. I just used it to show how idiotic it was for RVonse to claim the US is almost a communist nation because our government spending to GDP is 36.7%.

 

[TomC]

Why do you think a majority of republicans claim that there was election fraud, that Trump won and Biden didn't? I think I know why and I think it addresses the partisan issue.

Also the "OMG Civil War!" crap.
One side is the party of insurrectioists and violence and federal debt. The other side is trying to keep US together.
Yeah, guess who I'm voting for.

Squealing "they're both the same" is what's leading to civil war.
Tom

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I'm extremely concerned about the tendency of people partisans on both sides of the aisle to completely demonize the other side.

it’s a problem both sides but not an equal problem on both sides.

Look at republicans trying to censure Senator Lankford, a staunch conservative Republican, for daring to do his job and write a bill that can be passed. Or what they did to Liz Cheney for voicing dissent against the President. They even demonize their own people if they don’t buy into the cult!!

This is indeed the other side of the coin. The movement Trump hitch his gut to, transformed from the astro-turf'd tea party, has become a monstrosity that has targeted stalwart conservatives Cheney and even conservative partisans like McCarthy! They attacked Cheney because she said Biden won the election.

 

[southernhybrid]

I finished reading Liz Cheney's book last week. I admire her honesty and willingness to vote for the Democrats despite not agreeing with their politics. She realizes that her party is very dangerous and a threat to democracy. She gives a lot more details in the book about the things that went on before and after the insurrection. Yes. It was planned by Trump, as well as many of his sycophants in Congress.

 

[Shadowy Man]

Saying there's a two sides problem here is like saying there are two sides of an iceberg: the side above the water and the side below the water. That is a true statement.

 

[TomC]

I finished reading Liz Cheney's book last week. I admire her honesty and willingness to vote for the Democrats despite not agreeing with their politics. She realizes that her party is very dangerous and a threat to democracy. She gives a lot more details in the book about the things that went on before and after the insurrection. Yes. It was planned by Trump, as well as many of his sycophants in Congress.

I hardly knew anything about Liz Cheney until the last couple of years or so. Before that, I thought of her vaguely like Ivanka Trump, only older. A child of nepotism,

Since then, I've come to respect her a great deal. I still disagree with her policies and attitudes about most everything. But she's tough and smart and dedicated.
Kinda like Cori Bush.

Props where they're due!
Tom

 

[Playball40]

So far, based on what I've read and heard on the news, the killer who decapitated his father's head had no history of mental illness, but he was a MAGA extremist. He might have been mentally ill, but I'm tired of seeing the mentally ill being blamed for these outrageous violent crimes.

The people who stormed the Capitol Building on January 6th to overthrow a democratic election were a mob of radically partisan people. While some of them were probably suffering from some form of mental illness, the majority of them were most likely white collar manager types who have been lied to for decades and they are also deplorable.

A person murdering his father and cutting his head off, that sounds like a great deal of mental illness. It takes a ton of rage or paranoia to do that.

The majority of mentally ill people aren't violent. I guess sometimes people suddenly lost it, but what influences cause their behavior to become extreme?

There have been numerous instances of otherwise sane people getting caught up in the MAGA cult and committing acts of violence. That includes most of the people who were among those arrested for their crimes on Jan 6th, 2021. A lot of information is coming out about the latest MAGA inspired criminal. He ranted against minorities, wrote some books about survivalism, insisted that all federal employees should be killed, and spent an awful lot of time on social media. Then he posts his crime on social media. This type of thing seems to becoming more common as well. Why?

Seems to be a cyclical thing. My Dad said that when times are too good for too long, people get stupid. And history shows likewise when things are bad. This seems to indicate that given enough time, enough people get stupid. With right-wing propaganda on 24/7, these people are absorbing so much bullshit, for so long, they are permanently detached from reality.

Rage and anger are not mental illnesses. Just because the crime is violent and seems impossible to you or me, it does NOT automatically mean the perpetrator suffered any severe mental illness, psychosis or anything else. Most murders are perpetrated by those WITH NO KNOWN MENTAL ILLNESS. Some may be diagnosed later, but most simply are not ill.

 

[Playball40]

Our country is in an extremely sad state of affairs.

I agree.

This country is fucked! I just most people vote blue no matter who this fall or we're screwed.

We got where we are by voting for the same people who were from the same red and blue parties. At least 50% of where we are today is because people voted for the blue party people. Where we have arrived has to be at least 50% due to the same kind of blue democrats like Obama who promised hope and change but did not deliver.

So if you want the same kind of fucked up country that you enjoy... then you should vote exactly like you always have.

You mean where Obama was prevented from delivering.