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Why the Constitution is now null and void

How is taxation without representation supposed to make us more "free"? If you think the Department of Agriculture should be obliterated, fine. Put a bill before the House to do that. But they won't, because they know the American public does not want what they do. So they are doing by illegal means what could not be accomplished democratically. No one is offering to tax you less, only to give you less of a say in how your tax dollars are used. If you are afraid that your tax dollars could be used to enslave you, having their distribution be subject to the sole review and oversight of five very wealthy men ftom the same social circle, instead of 535 angry legislators from many and various places and backgrounds, should terrify you.
Yes...Congress hasn't done anything. The Democrats, because they are the minority, but the Republicans really won't because they will need Trump's endorsement when they are up for reelection. IF they are too afraid to do their job then maybe they shouldn't be there.
 
If you are afraid that your tax dollars could be used to enslave you, having their distribution be subject to the sole review and oversight of five very wealthy men ftom the same social circle, instead of 535 angry legislators from many and various places and backgrounds, should terrify you.
You forget that every American believes that one day he may become a billionaire too, so if we reign in the billionaires with law, what will he be left with when he also becomes a billionaire?
This isn't just about money. I could become a billionaire tomorrow, and that would not guarantee me an audience with Trump, let alone a political appointment.
 
If you are afraid that your tax dollars could be used to enslave you, having their distribution be subject to the sole review and oversight of five very wealthy men ftom the same social circle, instead of 535 angry legislators from many and various places and backgrounds, should terrify you.
You forget that every American believes that one day he may become a billionaire too, so if we reign in the billionaires with law, what will he be left with when he also becomes a billionaire?
This isn't just about money. I could become a billionaire tomorrow, and that would not guarantee me an audience with Trump, let alone a political appointment.
Sure, but you would want the tax law to benefit you, like the billionaires that do have an audience with Trump, right?? So, why would you want the lowlifes in Congress dictating how your tax law is spent, instead of members of your billionaire class social circle?
 
Sure, but you would want the tax law to benefit you, like the billionaires that do have an audience with Trump, right??

Nope. No way I could, would or would want to, spend my life spending money on "stuff". And definitely not to go anywhere near the half witted felon.
I'd give away 99% of the billion to some cause trying to tax billionaires. That would leave me $10m, enough that I'd never have to own anything outright ever again. (And hopefully a big enough tax deduction that I'd never have to pay taxes on whatever the $10m happened to earn.)
If I was in my 20s, I'd probably save more than 1% :)
 
Sure, but you would want the tax law to benefit you, like the billionaires that do have an audience with Trump, right??

Nope. No way I could, would or would want to, spend my life spending money on "stuff". And definitely not to go anywhere near the half witted felon.
I'd give away 99% of the billion to some cause trying to tax billionaires. That would leave me $10m, enough that I'd never have to own anything outright ever again. (And hopefully a big enough tax deduction that I'd never have to pay taxes on whatever the $10m happened to earn.)
If I was in my 20s, I'd probably save more than 1% :)
Man, you would totally suck as a billionaire. I'm embarrassed to consider you an American (if you even are)!! Sheesh... If you make a billion dollars just give it to me, ok, because clearly you have no idea what to do with your money. Elon and I will spend it at Martian strip clubs! :p
 
Sure, but you would want the tax law to benefit you, like the billionaires that do have an audience with Trump, right??

Nope. No way I could, would or would want to, spend my life spending money on "stuff". And definitely not to go anywhere near the half witted felon.
I'd give away 99% of the billion to some cause trying to tax billionaires. That would leave me $10m, enough that I'd never have to own anything outright ever again. (And hopefully a big enough tax deduction that I'd never have to pay taxes on whatever the $10m happened to earn.)
If I was in my 20s, I'd probably save more than 1% :)
Man, you would totally suck as a billionaire. I'm embarrassed to consider you an American (if you even are)!! Sheesh... If you make a billion dollars just give it to me, ok, because clearly you have no idea what to do with your money. Elon and I will spend it at Martian strip clubs! :p

If you're out clubbing with Leon, then
* fuck you, and
* Leon can pick up the tab! :)

And BTW I wouldn't suck as a billionaire under my scenario because I'd no longer be one! :p
 
I would be happy if they made large cuts to the military and closed down the useless bases too. And you are correct about pet projects for special interests....on either side But if people want something for nothing (say Lindsey Graham or Mitch McConnel) at least those kind of projects should be paid for by their own local or state governments so that the people nearest to the project are the same people who benefit from that project. We should be able to agree that the federal government should not be in the business for senator pet projects no matter who wants them. I pledge that when the Democrats get in next time they can and should get rid of all the Republican pet projects in next election cycle. And I for one will have no problem with that whatsoever even if George Soros does it.

The government was founded on the idea that competing interests would reach compromises through negotiations by elected representatives. That is how a democratic republic is supposed to work. Government spending actually creates and sustains millions of jobs. If you suddenly withdraw all of those funds, you don't make things better. What you do is throw a lot of people out of work who then file for welfare benefits, thereby requiring more tax dollars to keep them alive. Or, you could just eliminate those benefits and go back to the good old days of the Great Depression, which is why FDR implemented his New Deal programs in the first place. Not surprisingly, the Great Depression followed on the heels the Gilded Age and Andrew Mellon's reign as Treasury Secretary for (1921-1932). That was when fiscal conservative Republicans managed to reduce taxes on business and slash government spending--Republican utopia. After the economy crashed, they raised money through draconian tariffs, shutting down international trade. This is what you seem to want to bring back so that America can be "Great Again". We did have the greatest depression then.

Let the federal government get smaller so that it can be solvent and still carry out federal programs that are not pet projects. Let the federal government get smaller so that the middle class (not just the uber wealthy) can pay less federal tax. I want less from the federal government and to pay less too.

The government runs deficits and was still the strongest economy in the world before Musk or Trump came into the picture. It wasn't broke and didn't need fixing. When you pull billions from the economy, that throws lots of people out of work, driving up welfare costs and reducing the amount of tax revenue from their lost income. Oh, but you think we will SAVE money by taking away the welfare programs they need to survive. Republicans. Still crazy after all these decades.

You should not be objecting to Musk getting rid of a charity pet program that gives away money to the rest of the world. A program that does not even directly benefit our own country. The federal government is nearly bankrupt and not in a position for a charity pet program right now. Let Bill Gates keep it going for now since he is able to afford it.

The federal government is not bankrupt, but it will be if Trump gets his way. The man ran his inherited wealth straight into the ground. Musk has the whackadoodle idea that throwing people out of work will somehow make us wealthier. How does that happen when all of the income tax revenue goes away and government services are slashed? Does the private sector magically generate jobs like they did during the Great Depression? In a national economy, one person's spending is another person's income. So those whose jobs are trashed won't be putting their wages back into the economy, causing a ripple effect dragging everyone down. USAID purchased humanitarian supplies from American businesses, but now those businesses will see their profits decreasing, probably causing more layoffs. The government budget is not the same thing as a household or business budget. It is grounded in the Gross Domestic Product. What you are proposing to do is drive the GDP into the toilet.
 

And BTW I wouldn't suck as a billionaire under my scenario because I'd no longer be one! :p
That's right. I would have all your money, making it rain on Mars!!
Do you have to pay a third more for the three boobed Martian hooker?
What else do they have three of?
Doesn't matter. You still have only one penis. :dancy:
Rather presumptuous of you to asssume that you know how many penises @ideologyhunter has.

On the Internet, nobody knows that you're a Martian. ;)
 
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You should not be objecting to Musk getting rid of a charity pet program that gives away money to the rest of the world. A program that does not even directly benefit our own country. The federal government is nearly bankrupt and not in a position for a charity pet program right now. Let Bill Gates keep it going for now since he is able to afford it.

The federal government is not bankrupt, but it will be if Trump gets his way. The man ran his inherited wealth straight into the ground. Musk has the whackadoodle idea that throwing people out of work will somehow make us wealthier. How does that happen when all of the income tax revenue goes away and government services are slashed? Does the private sector magically generate jobs like they did during the Great Depression? In a national economy, one person's spending is another person's income. So those whose jobs are trashed won't be putting their wages back into the economy, causing a ripple effect dragging everyone down. USAID purchased humanitarian supplies from American businesses, but now those businesses will see their profits decreasing, probably causing more layoffs. The government budget is not the same thing as a household or business budget. It is grounded in the Gross Domestic Product. What you are proposing to do is drive the GDP into the toilet.

Just to follow up on my earlier post, I made the point that government spending represents income for Americans. Kansas is a bright red state. The heart of Trump country. Here is the latest on the Trump-Rubio-Musk shutdown of USAID from Wichita:

Trump’s spending halts raise concerns for Kansas farmers, global stability


Fiscal conservatives tend to think of a national economy as needing to be run like a business with a budget. You don't spend more than you take in. So government spending represents a net loss to the nation. It needs to balance its budget.

This is a false picture of how national economies work. The US has as many dollars as it decides to print. Those dollars chase after however many goods and services the economy produces. The worth of the currency is roughly a fraction of the GDP (see Fiat Money). So the value of the money grows or diminishes, depending on the supply of currency. The more dollars you print, the less each dollar is worth. However, you can print more dollars and push them into the economy, where they represent new income chasing after goods and services produced by businesses. Those businesses expand to meet the increased demand. Government spending is therefore income for the people who receive it. Reduce spending, and you take money away from those businesses. They are forced to contract in order to stay solvent. So deficit spending stimulates economic growth, which produces more goods and services--making those dollars worth a little more than they were before the growth and making up for some of the inflation in prices for goods and services. Businesses expand to make up for shortages of goods and services produced by increased demand. Government spending increases demand, causing businesses to grow.

It really isn't difficult to understand why Elon Musk and DOGE are not going to save the American people money by sucking vast amounts of income out of the US economy. Yet, that is where we are. Musk originally claimed he could find $2 trillion in savings. He pulled that figure out of his ass. Then he learned that there wasn't that much money being spent on nonmilitary stuff, so he farted out $1 trillion as his new target. Then he thought he would start with USAID, because nobody cares about foreign aid. Nobody except all of those Republican farmers in Kansas whose income depended on selling the products of their labor to USAID.
 
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The worth of the currency is roughly a fraction of the GDP (see Fiat Money). So the value of the money grows or diminishes, depending on the supply of currency. The more dollars you print, the less each dollar is worth. However, you can print more dollars and push them into the economy, where they represent new income chasing after goods and services produced by businesses.
...which increases GDP, and the sub-conclusion that "The more dollars you print, the less each dollar is worth" remains true only for constant GDP.

If the dollars you "print" are spent in a way that increases GDP by less than their face value, the value of the dollar falls (inflation).

But most government spending increases GDP by more than the face value of the money that spending creates. This increases the value of money (deflation).

Deflation is bad. So governments avoid the deflationary effect of the GDP boost that comes from spending, by destroying some money. This destructive process is called "taxation".

Spending (particularly on infrastructure in the broadest sense) implies growth; Growth is good; Deflation is bad; Taxes prevent deflation; Taxes are good.

Austerity - low tax, low spending - is a recipe for disaster. It leads to inadequate and shoddy infrastructure, and the entire economy depends on infrastructure.

Ideally, taxes should be lower than spending, in proportion to the rate of growth of the economy. Or to look at it another way, growth will occur proportional to the size of the defecit, as long as that spending is directed at things that sustainably grow the economy. And it's quite hard to find something to spend money on that doesn't cause sustainable growth.

Of course, there is another source of money - borrowing. And that money creation is offset by debt repayment. So the money supply can also be "tuned" to GDP growth by manipulating interest rates to encourage or discourage the lending of money. So it's more complex than that ideal. But a balanced budget (at the level of the currency issuer - ie in the case of the USA, the federal budget) remains a bad thing for a growing economy.

State and city budgets are more like business budgets, and balancing those is generally a good idea, though as income to such sub-national entities can come from the federal budget, as well as from local taxation, the total spend can still be higher than the local tax receipts, with a budget that is nevertheless "balanced".

Limiting spending to tax receipts is a terrible idea, and will fuck up your economy in short order. But it is a simple strategy. And so simpletons love it, despite it's being a total disaster.
 
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Whether you like Musk or not, you have to at least admit Musk is right about the size of our over grown federal government. Government never gets smaller.
Why do you feel it is too big? What makes you think that, besides the right-wing radio/TV jockeys you follow telling to.
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It really isn't difficult to understand why Elon Musk and DOGE are not going to save the American people money by sucking vast amounts of income out of the US economy. Yet, that is where we are. Musk originally claimed he could find $2 trillion in savings. He pulled that figure out of his ass. Then he learned that there wasn't that much money being spent on nonmilitary stuff, so he farted out $1 trillion as his new target. Then he thought he would start with USAID, because nobody cares about foreign aid. Nobody except all of those Republican farmers in Kansas whose income depended on selling the products of their labor to USAID.
This is what happens when "Common Sense" comes charging down the aisle to fix things so Government spending drops a lot and the Government is better. Common sense is synonym for "inexperienced" and "untrained".

The reality is that Government spending not attached to retirement, health care, debt management... means jobs. Yes, you can cut spending on USAID, there are jobs attached to that. How many? Well, you'd need to ask someone who has more than "Common Sense" to find out.
 
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You should not be objecting to Musk getting rid of a charity pet program that gives away money to the rest of the world. A program that does not even directly benefit our own country. The federal government is nearly bankrupt and not in a position for a charity pet program right now. Let Bill Gates keep it going for now since he is able to afford it.

The federal government is not bankrupt, but it will be if Trump gets his way. The man ran his inherited wealth straight into the ground. Musk has the whackadoodle idea that throwing people out of work will somehow make us wealthier. How does that happen when all of the income tax revenue goes away and government services are slashed? Does the private sector magically generate jobs like they did during the Great Depression? In a national economy, one person's spending is another person's income. So those whose jobs are trashed won't be putting their wages back into the economy, causing a ripple effect dragging everyone down. USAID purchased humanitarian supplies from American businesses, but now those businesses will see their profits decreasing, probably causing more layoffs. The government budget is not the same thing as a household or business budget. It is grounded in the Gross Domestic Product. What you are proposing to do is drive the GDP into the toilet.

Just to follow up on my earlier post, I made the point that government spending represents income for Americans. Kansas is a bright red state. The heart of Trump country. Here is the latest on the Trump-Rubio-Musk shutdown of USAID from Wichita:

Trump’s spending halts raise concerns for Kansas farmers, global stability


Fiscal conservatives tend to think of a national economy as needing to be run like a business with a budget. You don't spend more than you take in. So government spending represents a net loss to the nation. It needs to balance its budget.

This is a false picture of how national economies work. The US has as many dollars as it decides to print. Those dollars chase after however many goods and services the economy produces. The worth of the currency is roughly a fraction of the GDP (see Fiat Money). So the value of the money grows or diminishes, depending on the supply of currency. The more dollars you print, the less each dollar is worth. However, you can print more dollars and push them into the economy, where they represent new income chasing after goods and services produced by businesses. Those businesses expand to meet the increased demand. Government spending is therefore income for the people who receive it. Reduce spending, and you take money away from those businesses. They are forced to contract in order to stay solvent. So deficit spending stimulates economic growth, which produces more goods and services--making those dollars worth a little more than they were before the growth and making up for some of the inflation in prices for goods and services. Businesses expand to make up for shortages of goods and services produced by increased demand. Government spending increases demand, causing businesses to grow.

It really isn't difficult to understand why Elon Musk and DOGE are not going to save the American people money by sucking vast amounts of income out of the US economy. Yet, that is where we are. Musk originally claimed he could find $2 trillion in savings. He pulled that figure out of his ass. Then he learned that there wasn't that much money being spent on nonmilitary stuff, so he farted out $1 trillion as his new target. Then he thought he would start with USAID, because nobody cares about foreign aid. Nobody except all of those Republican farmers in Kansas whose income depended on selling the products of their labor to USAID.
In an emergency, I agree the government works good to stimulate the economy with printed money. But in the long run, we know that central managed economies simply don't work. You simply can not have a few selected people who know how money should be allocated in Kansas. We know this because Cuba did not work. And we know this because the Soviet Union did not work. Private industry coupled with respect for private property is the best we know about today. That is how America was founded and became successful. You might argue that China might be the contemporary exception to private owned capitalism but I would argue that China got to be the exception only by America's globalist stupidity during the Clinton years that allowed our industry to be wholesale moved to into China. And China is by no means going to continue to be as successful as in recent years.

So on known history so far, it is probably a fair bet private industry always uses capital more efficiently than central governments do. That means America should take all measures it can reduce capital from government so that that same capital can be used in private industry to further everyone's lifestyle. Furthermore, all measures should include making the existing government more efficient so that more of its capital can actually find its way to its own citizens. Everyone should be in agreement to this because it will benefit everyone overall.

For all I have heard so far, USAID is about the most inefficient government program there could possibly be. It might be compassionate but it is not at all efficient. Taking tax money to give it away to other countries. That is not efficient.
 
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