Merged Gaza just launched an unprovoked attack on Israel

[DrZoidberg]

So, are all the Rabbis and Jewish people who are now protesting against Israel also antisemitic? /s

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/08/26/...e_code=1.hE8.dJ9o.UiOqi8om2Gqh&smid=url-share

As Israel’s tactics in Gaza have increasingly provoked international condemnation, rabbis from across the world are taking the unusual step of speaking out against the Israeli government’s conduct in the war, on moral and religious grounds.

Over the past few weeks, as reports of mass killings in Gaza have spread and experts declared the area is officially suffering from famine, a significant number of clergy across the spectrum of Jewish observance and affiliation have signed a series of high-profile, carefully crafted public letters criticizing the Israeli government.

Associations representing Reform congregations and Conservative rabbis — denominations that encompass nearly half of American Jews — have called for Israel to release additional aid, citing Jewish values and what one group called a “moral priority” to feed the hungry. Nearly three dozen rabbis were arrested in demonstrations in New York and Washington last month, calling for more aid to Gaza and for Israel and its prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, to end the war.

Perhaps most notably, the ranks of those raising concerns now also include a small group of Orthodox rabbis, whose communities have broadly not wavered in their staunch support of Israel throughout the war.

Last week about 80 Orthodox rabbis signed an open letter demanding “moral clarity, responsibility, and a Jewish Orthodox response” to what they called a humanitarian crisis in Gaza. Signers included chief rabbis of Poland and Norway, and the former chief rabbi of Ireland. Organizers said that more than half of those who signed the letter were from the United States.

“We affirm that Hamas’s sins and crimes do not relieve the government of Israel of its obligations to make whatever efforts are necessary to prevent mass starvation,” the letter said. “Orthodox Jewry, as some of Israel’s most devoted supporters, bears a unique moral responsibility. We must affirm that Judaism’s vision of justice and compassion extends to all human beings.”

A primary organizer was Rabbi Yosef Blau, the former religious leader of Yeshiva University, a Modern Orthodox institution in Manhattan. Rabbi Blau said his concerns encompassed not only the Israeli government’s treatment of civilians in Gaza but also reported violence against Palestinians by Orthodox Jewish settlers in the West Bank.

“The responsibility and the lack of concern that Hamas has for the health and welfare of its own people does not free Israel from having responsibility for the destruction that it has caused,” Rabbi Blau said. “It is not a zero-sum game.”

The Jewish community is far from a monolith, and support for the tactics and mission of Israel’s war in Gaza has varied. But until recently, many mainstream Jewish organizations and leaders had defended Israel’s war against Hamas, if with growing unease.

“Even in the midst of a horrific immoral war started by Hamas, it doesn’t take away from our responsibility to feed and to provide medical care for the civilian population,” he said.

Some of the rabbis’ positions echo the anguished calls of protesters and prominent academics, authors, politicians and retired military leaders in Israel, who are increasingly raising alarms about potential war crimes being carried out by the government in their name.

Ministers in the Netanyahu government who have called for Israeli settlers to expel and replace Palestinians in Gaza have “consistently morally compromised Israel’s actions,” the Union for Reform Judaism said last month.

“No one should spend the bulk of their time arguing technical definitions between starvation and pervasive hunger. The situation is dire, and it is deadly,” the group wrote. “Nor should we accept arguments that because Hamas is the primary reason many Gazans are either starving or on the verge of starving, that the Jewish State is not also culpable in this human disaster.”

In the United States, the war has created painful rifts within the Jewish community dividing families, congregations, religious schools and community organizations. Older and more religiously observant Jews have been stauncher defenders of Israel, arguing that the country’s very survival is at stake — as well as the safety of Jews outside Israel.

But as the war has dragged on, younger and more secular Jews have recoiled from images of carnage and destruction in Gaza, seeing Israel and its government as responsible for the war’s continuation and its toll of devastation.

There's more in the article if you dare to read it. It's not behind a paywall. Good to see so many Jewish people waking up to the reality of what Israel is doing to innocent people.

So, are all the Rabbis and Jewish people who are now protesting against Israel also antisemitic? /s

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/08/26/...e_code=1.hE8.dJ9o.UiOqi8om2Gqh&smid=url-share

As Israel’s tactics in Gaza have increasingly provoked international condemnation, rabbis from across the world are taking the unusual step of speaking out against the Israeli government’s conduct in the war, on moral and religious grounds.

Over the past few weeks, as reports of mass killings in Gaza have spread and experts declared the area is officially suffering from famine, a significant number of clergy across the spectrum of Jewish observance and affiliation have signed a series of high-profile, carefully crafted public letters criticizing the Israeli government.

Associations representing Reform congregations and Conservative rabbis — denominations that encompass nearly half of American Jews — have called for Israel to release additional aid, citing Jewish values and what one group called a “moral priority” to feed the hungry. Nearly three dozen rabbis were arrested in demonstrations in New York and Washington last month, calling for more aid to Gaza and for Israel and its prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, to end the war.

Perhaps most notably, the ranks of those raising concerns now also include a small group of Orthodox rabbis, whose communities have broadly not wavered in their staunch support of Israel throughout the war.

Last week about 80 Orthodox rabbis signed an open letter demanding “moral clarity, responsibility, and a Jewish Orthodox response” to what they called a humanitarian crisis in Gaza. Signers included chief rabbis of Poland and Norway, and the former chief rabbi of Ireland. Organizers said that more than half of those who signed the letter were from the United States.

“We affirm that Hamas’s sins and crimes do not relieve the government of Israel of its obligations to make whatever efforts are necessary to prevent mass starvation,” the letter said. “Orthodox Jewry, as some of Israel’s most devoted supporters, bears a unique moral responsibility. We must affirm that Judaism’s vision of justice and compassion extends to all human beings.”

A primary organizer was Rabbi Yosef Blau, the former religious leader of Yeshiva University, a Modern Orthodox institution in Manhattan. Rabbi Blau said his concerns encompassed not only the Israeli government’s treatment of civilians in Gaza but also reported violence against Palestinians by Orthodox Jewish settlers in the West Bank.

“The responsibility and the lack of concern that Hamas has for the health and welfare of its own people does not free Israel from having responsibility for the destruction that it has caused,” Rabbi Blau said. “It is not a zero-sum game.”

The Jewish community is far from a monolith, and support for the tactics and mission of Israel’s war in Gaza has varied. But until recently, many mainstream Jewish organizations and leaders had defended Israel’s war against Hamas, if with growing unease.

“Even in the midst of a horrific immoral war started by Hamas, it doesn’t take away from our responsibility to feed and to provide medical care for the civilian population,” he said.

Some of the rabbis’ positions echo the anguished calls of protesters and prominent academics, authors, politicians and retired military leaders in Israel, who are increasingly raising alarms about potential war crimes being carried out by the government in their name.

Ministers in the Netanyahu government who have called for Israeli settlers to expel and replace Palestinians in Gaza have “consistently morally compromised Israel’s actions,” the Union for Reform Judaism said last month.

“No one should spend the bulk of their time arguing technical definitions between starvation and pervasive hunger. The situation is dire, and it is deadly,” the group wrote. “Nor should we accept arguments that because Hamas is the primary reason many Gazans are either starving or on the verge of starving, that the Jewish State is not also culpable in this human disaster.”

In the United States, the war has created painful rifts within the Jewish community dividing families, congregations, religious schools and community organizations. Older and more religiously observant Jews have been stauncher defenders of Israel, arguing that the country’s very survival is at stake — as well as the safety of Jews outside Israel.

But as the war has dragged on, younger and more secular Jews have recoiled from images of carnage and destruction in Gaza, seeing Israel and its government as responsible for the war’s continuation and its toll of devastation.

There's more in the article if you dare to read it. It's not behind a paywall. Good to see so many Jewish people waking up to the reality of what Israel is doing to innocent people.

These are American Jews criticising Israel. Jews in America get the same news as non-Jews. The news is strongly antisemtic right now. They're bound to get influenced by it. The people spreading antisemitic hate in this thread have managed to convince themselves they're not. I've been accused of racism and bigotry in this thread by people expressing racist and bigoted views. There's a huge blind spot right now among leftists. It's like a massive leftist mass psychosis, where people are feeding eachothers narratives and managing to convince themselves they're not a tool of evil.

There's plenty of Jews in Israel who also have bought into the bullshit pro-Palestinian propaganda. Loads. No, they're not antisemitic. But they are spreading an antisemitic narrative. Which is pretty typical of Jews. They have historically, fucking sucked at standing up for themselves. A result of being more inward looking than outward looking.

On the starvation in Gaza. There exists food. USAID is providing it. It's a war zone. Hamas are trying to prevent people from getting USAID aid. If people aren't able to get the USAID food, then that's on Hamas. Hamas has weaponised aid since they first took over. It's important they're not longer able to control the aid in Gaza.

The claim that Israel is starving Gazans is an antisemitic lie. If Jews spread this lie, they're still spreading an antisemtic lie, even if they're not antisemites. Narratives are powerful.

And finally, when Jews spread antisemitic lies it's just sad. But when non-Jews do it than it's malicious and actual antisemtism. It's fueled by something different. Hate directed inwards should trigger compassion. Hate directed outwards should trigger anger in the rest of us that have a working moral compass.

 

[ZiprHead]

Geezussss. So much bullshit in five tiny paragraphs.

You do know USAID was disbanded several months ago, right?

 

[DrZoidberg]

Geezussss. So much bullshit in five tiny paragraphs.

You do know USAID was disbanded several months ago, right?

Ok. Now its called GHF. Same thing. Israel is still distributing aid, and doing the best they can while keeping Hamas away from being able to control it

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

So, are all the Rabbis and Jewish people who are now protesting against Israel also antisemitic? /s

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/08/26/...e_code=1.hE8.dJ9o.UiOqi8om2Gqh&smid=url-share

As Israel’s tactics in Gaza have increasingly provoked international condemnation, rabbis from across the world are taking the unusual step of speaking out against the Israeli government’s conduct in the war, on moral and religious grounds.

Over the past few weeks, as reports of mass killings in Gaza have spread and experts declared the area is officially suffering from famine, a significant number of clergy across the spectrum of Jewish observance and affiliation have signed a series of high-profile, carefully crafted public letters criticizing the Israeli government.

Associations representing Reform congregations and Conservative rabbis — denominations that encompass nearly half of American Jews — have called for Israel to release additional aid, citing Jewish values and what one group called a “moral priority” to feed the hungry. Nearly three dozen rabbis were arrested in demonstrations in New York and Washington last month, calling for more aid to Gaza and for Israel and its prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, to end the war.

Perhaps most notably, the ranks of those raising concerns now also include a small group of Orthodox rabbis, whose communities have broadly not wavered in their staunch support of Israel throughout the war.

Last week about 80 Orthodox rabbis signed an open letter demanding “moral clarity, responsibility, and a Jewish Orthodox response” to what they called a humanitarian crisis in Gaza. Signers included chief rabbis of Poland and Norway, and the former chief rabbi of Ireland. Organizers said that more than half of those who signed the letter were from the United States.

“We affirm that Hamas’s sins and crimes do not relieve the government of Israel of its obligations to make whatever efforts are necessary to prevent mass starvation,” the letter said. “Orthodox Jewry, as some of Israel’s most devoted supporters, bears a unique moral responsibility. We must affirm that Judaism’s vision of justice and compassion extends to all human beings.”

A primary organizer was Rabbi Yosef Blau, the former religious leader of Yeshiva University, a Modern Orthodox institution in Manhattan. Rabbi Blau said his concerns encompassed not only the Israeli government’s treatment of civilians in Gaza but also reported violence against Palestinians by Orthodox Jewish settlers in the West Bank.

“The responsibility and the lack of concern that Hamas has for the health and welfare of its own people does not free Israel from having responsibility for the destruction that it has caused,” Rabbi Blau said. “It is not a zero-sum game.”

The Jewish community is far from a monolith, and support for the tactics and mission of Israel’s war in Gaza has varied. But until recently, many mainstream Jewish organizations and leaders had defended Israel’s war against Hamas, if with growing unease.

“Even in the midst of a horrific immoral war started by Hamas, it doesn’t take away from our responsibility to feed and to provide medical care for the civilian population,” he said.

Some of the rabbis’ positions echo the anguished calls of protesters and prominent academics, authors, politicians and retired military leaders in Israel, who are increasingly raising alarms about potential war crimes being carried out by the government in their name.

Ministers in the Netanyahu government who have called for Israeli settlers to expel and replace Palestinians in Gaza have “consistently morally compromised Israel’s actions,” the Union for Reform Judaism said last month.

“No one should spend the bulk of their time arguing technical definitions between starvation and pervasive hunger. The situation is dire, and it is deadly,” the group wrote. “Nor should we accept arguments that because Hamas is the primary reason many Gazans are either starving or on the verge of starving, that the Jewish State is not also culpable in this human disaster.”

In the United States, the war has created painful rifts within the Jewish community dividing families, congregations, religious schools and community organizations. Older and more religiously observant Jews have been stauncher defenders of Israel, arguing that the country’s very survival is at stake — as well as the safety of Jews outside Israel.

But as the war has dragged on, younger and more secular Jews have recoiled from images of carnage and destruction in Gaza, seeing Israel and its government as responsible for the war’s continuation and its toll of devastation.

There's more in the article if you dare to read it. It's not behind a paywall. Good to see so many Jewish people waking up to the reality of what Israel is doing to innocent people.

So, are all the Rabbis and Jewish people who are now protesting against Israel also antisemitic? /s

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/08/26/...e_code=1.hE8.dJ9o.UiOqi8om2Gqh&smid=url-share

As Israel’s tactics in Gaza have increasingly provoked international condemnation, rabbis from across the world are taking the unusual step of speaking out against the Israeli government’s conduct in the war, on moral and religious grounds.

Over the past few weeks, as reports of mass killings in Gaza have spread and experts declared the area is officially suffering from famine, a significant number of clergy across the spectrum of Jewish observance and affiliation have signed a series of high-profile, carefully crafted public letters criticizing the Israeli government.

Associations representing Reform congregations and Conservative rabbis — denominations that encompass nearly half of American Jews — have called for Israel to release additional aid, citing Jewish values and what one group called a “moral priority” to feed the hungry. Nearly three dozen rabbis were arrested in demonstrations in New York and Washington last month, calling for more aid to Gaza and for Israel and its prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, to end the war.

Perhaps most notably, the ranks of those raising concerns now also include a small group of Orthodox rabbis, whose communities have broadly not wavered in their staunch support of Israel throughout the war.

Last week about 80 Orthodox rabbis signed an open letter demanding “moral clarity, responsibility, and a Jewish Orthodox response” to what they called a humanitarian crisis in Gaza. Signers included chief rabbis of Poland and Norway, and the former chief rabbi of Ireland. Organizers said that more than half of those who signed the letter were from the United States.

“We affirm that Hamas’s sins and crimes do not relieve the government of Israel of its obligations to make whatever efforts are necessary to prevent mass starvation,” the letter said. “Orthodox Jewry, as some of Israel’s most devoted supporters, bears a unique moral responsibility. We must affirm that Judaism’s vision of justice and compassion extends to all human beings.”

A primary organizer was Rabbi Yosef Blau, the former religious leader of Yeshiva University, a Modern Orthodox institution in Manhattan. Rabbi Blau said his concerns encompassed not only the Israeli government’s treatment of civilians in Gaza but also reported violence against Palestinians by Orthodox Jewish settlers in the West Bank.

“The responsibility and the lack of concern that Hamas has for the health and welfare of its own people does not free Israel from having responsibility for the destruction that it has caused,” Rabbi Blau said. “It is not a zero-sum game.”

The Jewish community is far from a monolith, and support for the tactics and mission of Israel’s war in Gaza has varied. But until recently, many mainstream Jewish organizations and leaders had defended Israel’s war against Hamas, if with growing unease.

“Even in the midst of a horrific immoral war started by Hamas, it doesn’t take away from our responsibility to feed and to provide medical care for the civilian population,” he said.

Some of the rabbis’ positions echo the anguished calls of protesters and prominent academics, authors, politicians and retired military leaders in Israel, who are increasingly raising alarms about potential war crimes being carried out by the government in their name.

Ministers in the Netanyahu government who have called for Israeli settlers to expel and replace Palestinians in Gaza have “consistently morally compromised Israel’s actions,” the Union for Reform Judaism said last month.

“No one should spend the bulk of their time arguing technical definitions between starvation and pervasive hunger. The situation is dire, and it is deadly,” the group wrote. “Nor should we accept arguments that because Hamas is the primary reason many Gazans are either starving or on the verge of starving, that the Jewish State is not also culpable in this human disaster.”

In the United States, the war has created painful rifts within the Jewish community dividing families, congregations, religious schools and community organizations. Older and more religiously observant Jews have been stauncher defenders of Israel, arguing that the country’s very survival is at stake — as well as the safety of Jews outside Israel.

But as the war has dragged on, younger and more secular Jews have recoiled from images of carnage and destruction in Gaza, seeing Israel and its government as responsible for the war’s continuation and its toll of devastation.

There's more in the article if you dare to read it. It's not behind a paywall. Good to see so many Jewish people waking up to the reality of what Israel is doing to innocent people.

These are American Jews criticising Israel. Jews in America get the same news as non-Jews. The news is strongly antisemtic right now. They're bound to get influenced by it. The people spreading antisemitic hate in this thread have managed to convince themselves they're not. I've been accused of racism and bigotry in this thread by people expressing racist and bigoted views. There's a huge blind spot right now among leftists. It's like a massive leftist mass psychosis, where people are feeding eachothers narratives and managing to convince themselves they're not a tool of evil.

There's plenty of Jews in Israel who also have bought into the bullshit pro-Palestinian propaganda. Loads. No, they're not antisemitic. But they are spreading an antisemitic narrative. Which is pretty typical of Jews. They have historically, fucking sucked at standing up for themselves. A result of being more inward looking than outward looking.

On the starvation in Gaza. There exists food. USAID is providing it. It's a war zone. Hamas are trying to prevent people from getting USAID aid. If people aren't able to get the USAID food, then that's on Hamas. Hamas has weaponised aid since they first took over. It's important they're not longer able to control the aid in Gaza.

The claim that Israel is starving Gazans is an antisemitic lie. If Jews spread this lie, they're still spreading an antisemtic lie, even if they're not antisemites. Narratives are powerful.

And finally, when Jews spread antisemitic lies it's just sad. But when non-Jews do it than it's malicious and actual antisemtism. It's fueled by something different. Hate directed inwards should trigger compassion. Hate directed outwards should trigger anger in the rest of us that have a working moral compass.

Thank you for gentile-splaining to the world's jews how they are being anti-semitic when they don't share your opinions. Last time you called them self-hating Jews which is an anti-semitic trope. So I guess this is an improvement.

#babysteps

 

[southernhybrid]

So, are all the Rabbis and Jewish people who are now protesting against Israel also antisemitic? /s

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/08/26/...e_code=1.hE8.dJ9o.UiOqi8om2Gqh&smid=url-share

As Israel’s tactics in Gaza have increasingly provoked international condemnation, rabbis from across the world are taking the unusual step of speaking out against the Israeli government’s conduct in the war, on moral and religious grounds.

Over the past few weeks, as reports of mass killings in Gaza have spread and experts declared the area is officially suffering from famine, a significant number of clergy across the spectrum of Jewish observance and affiliation have signed a series of high-profile, carefully crafted public letters criticizing the Israeli government.

Associations representing Reform congregations and Conservative rabbis — denominations that encompass nearly half of American Jews — have called for Israel to release additional aid, citing Jewish values and what one group called a “moral priority” to feed the hungry. Nearly three dozen rabbis were arrested in demonstrations in New York and Washington last month, calling for more aid to Gaza and for Israel and its prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, to end the war.

Perhaps most notably, the ranks of those raising concerns now also include a small group of Orthodox rabbis, whose communities have broadly not wavered in their staunch support of Israel throughout the war.

Last week about 80 Orthodox rabbis signed an open letter demanding “moral clarity, responsibility, and a Jewish Orthodox response” to what they called a humanitarian crisis in Gaza. Signers included chief rabbis of Poland and Norway, and the former chief rabbi of Ireland. Organizers said that more than half of those who signed the letter were from the United States.

“We affirm that Hamas’s sins and crimes do not relieve the government of Israel of its obligations to make whatever efforts are necessary to prevent mass starvation,” the letter said. “Orthodox Jewry, as some of Israel’s most devoted supporters, bears a unique moral responsibility. We must affirm that Judaism’s vision of justice and compassion extends to all human beings.”

A primary organizer was Rabbi Yosef Blau, the former religious leader of Yeshiva University, a Modern Orthodox institution in Manhattan. Rabbi Blau said his concerns encompassed not only the Israeli government’s treatment of civilians in Gaza but also reported violence against Palestinians by Orthodox Jewish settlers in the West Bank.

“The responsibility and the lack of concern that Hamas has for the health and welfare of its own people does not free Israel from having responsibility for the destruction that it has caused,” Rabbi Blau said. “It is not a zero-sum game.”

The Jewish community is far from a monolith, and support for the tactics and mission of Israel’s war in Gaza has varied. But until recently, many mainstream Jewish organizations and leaders had defended Israel’s war against Hamas, if with growing unease.

“Even in the midst of a horrific immoral war started by Hamas, it doesn’t take away from our responsibility to feed and to provide medical care for the civilian population,” he said.

Some of the rabbis’ positions echo the anguished calls of protesters and prominent academics, authors, politicians and retired military leaders in Israel, who are increasingly raising alarms about potential war crimes being carried out by the government in their name.

Ministers in the Netanyahu government who have called for Israeli settlers to expel and replace Palestinians in Gaza have “consistently morally compromised Israel’s actions,” the Union for Reform Judaism said last month.

“No one should spend the bulk of their time arguing technical definitions between starvation and pervasive hunger. The situation is dire, and it is deadly,” the group wrote. “Nor should we accept arguments that because Hamas is the primary reason many Gazans are either starving or on the verge of starving, that the Jewish State is not also culpable in this human disaster.”

In the United States, the war has created painful rifts within the Jewish community dividing families, congregations, religious schools and community organizations. Older and more religiously observant Jews have been stauncher defenders of Israel, arguing that the country’s very survival is at stake — as well as the safety of Jews outside Israel.

But as the war has dragged on, younger and more secular Jews have recoiled from images of carnage and destruction in Gaza, seeing Israel and its government as responsible for the war’s continuation and its toll of devastation.

There's more in the article if you dare to read it. It's not behind a paywall. Good to see so many Jewish people waking up to the reality of what Israel is doing to innocent people.

So, are all the Rabbis and Jewish people who are now protesting against Israel also antisemitic? /s

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/08/26/...e_code=1.hE8.dJ9o.UiOqi8om2Gqh&smid=url-share

As Israel’s tactics in Gaza have increasingly provoked international condemnation, rabbis from across the world are taking the unusual step of speaking out against the Israeli government’s conduct in the war, on moral and religious grounds.

Over the past few weeks, as reports of mass killings in Gaza have spread and experts declared the area is officially suffering from famine, a significant number of clergy across the spectrum of Jewish observance and affiliation have signed a series of high-profile, carefully crafted public letters criticizing the Israeli government.

Associations representing Reform congregations and Conservative rabbis — denominations that encompass nearly half of American Jews — have called for Israel to release additional aid, citing Jewish values and what one group called a “moral priority” to feed the hungry. Nearly three dozen rabbis were arrested in demonstrations in New York and Washington last month, calling for more aid to Gaza and for Israel and its prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, to end the war.

Perhaps most notably, the ranks of those raising concerns now also include a small group of Orthodox rabbis, whose communities have broadly not wavered in their staunch support of Israel throughout the war.

Last week about 80 Orthodox rabbis signed an open letter demanding “moral clarity, responsibility, and a Jewish Orthodox response” to what they called a humanitarian crisis in Gaza. Signers included chief rabbis of Poland and Norway, and the former chief rabbi of Ireland. Organizers said that more than half of those who signed the letter were from the United States.

“We affirm that Hamas’s sins and crimes do not relieve the government of Israel of its obligations to make whatever efforts are necessary to prevent mass starvation,” the letter said. “Orthodox Jewry, as some of Israel’s most devoted supporters, bears a unique moral responsibility. We must affirm that Judaism’s vision of justice and compassion extends to all human beings.”

A primary organizer was Rabbi Yosef Blau, the former religious leader of Yeshiva University, a Modern Orthodox institution in Manhattan. Rabbi Blau said his concerns encompassed not only the Israeli government’s treatment of civilians in Gaza but also reported violence against Palestinians by Orthodox Jewish settlers in the West Bank.

“The responsibility and the lack of concern that Hamas has for the health and welfare of its own people does not free Israel from having responsibility for the destruction that it has caused,” Rabbi Blau said. “It is not a zero-sum game.”

The Jewish community is far from a monolith, and support for the tactics and mission of Israel’s war in Gaza has varied. But until recently, many mainstream Jewish organizations and leaders had defended Israel’s war against Hamas, if with growing unease.

“Even in the midst of a horrific immoral war started by Hamas, it doesn’t take away from our responsibility to feed and to provide medical care for the civilian population,” he said.

Some of the rabbis’ positions echo the anguished calls of protesters and prominent academics, authors, politicians and retired military leaders in Israel, who are increasingly raising alarms about potential war crimes being carried out by the government in their name.

Ministers in the Netanyahu government who have called for Israeli settlers to expel and replace Palestinians in Gaza have “consistently morally compromised Israel’s actions,” the Union for Reform Judaism said last month.

“No one should spend the bulk of their time arguing technical definitions between starvation and pervasive hunger. The situation is dire, and it is deadly,” the group wrote. “Nor should we accept arguments that because Hamas is the primary reason many Gazans are either starving or on the verge of starving, that the Jewish State is not also culpable in this human disaster.”

In the United States, the war has created painful rifts within the Jewish community dividing families, congregations, religious schools and community organizations. Older and more religiously observant Jews have been stauncher defenders of Israel, arguing that the country’s very survival is at stake — as well as the safety of Jews outside Israel.

But as the war has dragged on, younger and more secular Jews have recoiled from images of carnage and destruction in Gaza, seeing Israel and its government as responsible for the war’s continuation and its toll of devastation.

There's more in the article if you dare to read it. It's not behind a paywall. Good to see so many Jewish people waking up to the reality of what Israel is doing to innocent people.

These are American Jews criticising Israel. Jews in America get the same news as non-Jews. The news is strongly antisemtic right now. They're bound to get influenced by it. The people spreading antisemitic hate in this thread have managed to convince themselves they're not. I've been accused of racism and bigotry in this thread by people expressing racist and bigoted views. There's a huge blind spot right now among leftists. It's like a massive leftist mass psychosis, where people are feeding eachothers narratives and managing to convince themselves they're not a tool of evil.

There's plenty of Jews in Israel who also have bought into the bullshit pro-Palestinian propaganda. Loads. No, they're not antisemitic. But they are spreading an antisemitic narrative. Which is pretty typical of Jews. They have historically, fucking sucked at standing up for themselves. A result of being more inward looking than outward looking.

On the starvation in Gaza. There exists food. USAID is providing it. It's a war zone. Hamas are trying to prevent people from getting USAID aid. If people aren't able to get the USAID food, then that's on Hamas. Hamas has weaponised aid since they first took over. It's important they're not longer able to control the aid in Gaza.

The claim that Israel is starving Gazans is an antisemitic lie. If Jews spread this lie, they're still spreading an antisemtic lie, even if they're not antisemites. Narratives are powerful.

And finally, when Jews spread antisemitic lies it's just sad. But when non-Jews do it than it's malicious and actual antisemtism. It's fueled by something different. Hate directed inwards should trigger compassion. Hate directed outwards should trigger anger in the rest of us that have a working moral compass.

These are Jewish people around the world, not just American Jewish people and Rabbis. Are you incapable of reading or is your mind so closed that you don't want to know the truth? This isn't about being anti Jewish. It's about being against a cruel leader who is trying to wipe out an entire group of people and take over the land they have been living on for decades. I don't understand how you can justify that.

As the Jewish people in the article have stated, while Hamas started this, it doesn't justify what Israel is doing. I hate what's currently going on in my country, but that doesn't make me un American. It just means I want my country to get rid of a psychopathic leader who is destroying our democracy.

There is a line that I like from an old jazz song that goes, "Even when I hate you, it's only because I love you." I feel that way about my country sometimes and I'm sure many Israelis feel that way about their country as well.

 

[DrZoidberg]

So, are all the Rabbis and Jewish people who are now protesting against Israel also antisemitic? /s

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/08/26/...e_code=1.hE8.dJ9o.UiOqi8om2Gqh&smid=url-share

As Israel’s tactics in Gaza have increasingly provoked international condemnation, rabbis from across the world are taking the unusual step of speaking out against the Israeli government’s conduct in the war, on moral and religious grounds.

Over the past few weeks, as reports of mass killings in Gaza have spread and experts declared the area is officially suffering from famine, a significant number of clergy across the spectrum of Jewish observance and affiliation have signed a series of high-profile, carefully crafted public letters criticizing the Israeli government.

Associations representing Reform congregations and Conservative rabbis — denominations that encompass nearly half of American Jews — have called for Israel to release additional aid, citing Jewish values and what one group called a “moral priority” to feed the hungry. Nearly three dozen rabbis were arrested in demonstrations in New York and Washington last month, calling for more aid to Gaza and for Israel and its prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, to end the war.

Perhaps most notably, the ranks of those raising concerns now also include a small group of Orthodox rabbis, whose communities have broadly not wavered in their staunch support of Israel throughout the war.

Last week about 80 Orthodox rabbis signed an open letter demanding “moral clarity, responsibility, and a Jewish Orthodox response” to what they called a humanitarian crisis in Gaza. Signers included chief rabbis of Poland and Norway, and the former chief rabbi of Ireland. Organizers said that more than half of those who signed the letter were from the United States.

“We affirm that Hamas’s sins and crimes do not relieve the government of Israel of its obligations to make whatever efforts are necessary to prevent mass starvation,” the letter said. “Orthodox Jewry, as some of Israel’s most devoted supporters, bears a unique moral responsibility. We must affirm that Judaism’s vision of justice and compassion extends to all human beings.”

A primary organizer was Rabbi Yosef Blau, the former religious leader of Yeshiva University, a Modern Orthodox institution in Manhattan. Rabbi Blau said his concerns encompassed not only the Israeli government’s treatment of civilians in Gaza but also reported violence against Palestinians by Orthodox Jewish settlers in the West Bank.

“The responsibility and the lack of concern that Hamas has for the health and welfare of its own people does not free Israel from having responsibility for the destruction that it has caused,” Rabbi Blau said. “It is not a zero-sum game.”

The Jewish community is far from a monolith, and support for the tactics and mission of Israel’s war in Gaza has varied. But until recently, many mainstream Jewish organizations and leaders had defended Israel’s war against Hamas, if with growing unease.

“Even in the midst of a horrific immoral war started by Hamas, it doesn’t take away from our responsibility to feed and to provide medical care for the civilian population,” he said.

Some of the rabbis’ positions echo the anguished calls of protesters and prominent academics, authors, politicians and retired military leaders in Israel, who are increasingly raising alarms about potential war crimes being carried out by the government in their name.

Ministers in the Netanyahu government who have called for Israeli settlers to expel and replace Palestinians in Gaza have “consistently morally compromised Israel’s actions,” the Union for Reform Judaism said last month.

“No one should spend the bulk of their time arguing technical definitions between starvation and pervasive hunger. The situation is dire, and it is deadly,” the group wrote. “Nor should we accept arguments that because Hamas is the primary reason many Gazans are either starving or on the verge of starving, that the Jewish State is not also culpable in this human disaster.”

In the United States, the war has created painful rifts within the Jewish community dividing families, congregations, religious schools and community organizations. Older and more religiously observant Jews have been stauncher defenders of Israel, arguing that the country’s very survival is at stake — as well as the safety of Jews outside Israel.

But as the war has dragged on, younger and more secular Jews have recoiled from images of carnage and destruction in Gaza, seeing Israel and its government as responsible for the war’s continuation and its toll of devastation.

There's more in the article if you dare to read it. It's not behind a paywall. Good to see so many Jewish people waking up to the reality of what Israel is doing to innocent people.

So, are all the Rabbis and Jewish people who are now protesting against Israel also antisemitic? /s

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/08/26/...e_code=1.hE8.dJ9o.UiOqi8om2Gqh&smid=url-share

As Israel’s tactics in Gaza have increasingly provoked international condemnation, rabbis from across the world are taking the unusual step of speaking out against the Israeli government’s conduct in the war, on moral and religious grounds.

Over the past few weeks, as reports of mass killings in Gaza have spread and experts declared the area is officially suffering from famine, a significant number of clergy across the spectrum of Jewish observance and affiliation have signed a series of high-profile, carefully crafted public letters criticizing the Israeli government.

Associations representing Reform congregations and Conservative rabbis — denominations that encompass nearly half of American Jews — have called for Israel to release additional aid, citing Jewish values and what one group called a “moral priority” to feed the hungry. Nearly three dozen rabbis were arrested in demonstrations in New York and Washington last month, calling for more aid to Gaza and for Israel and its prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, to end the war.

Perhaps most notably, the ranks of those raising concerns now also include a small group of Orthodox rabbis, whose communities have broadly not wavered in their staunch support of Israel throughout the war.

Last week about 80 Orthodox rabbis signed an open letter demanding “moral clarity, responsibility, and a Jewish Orthodox response” to what they called a humanitarian crisis in Gaza. Signers included chief rabbis of Poland and Norway, and the former chief rabbi of Ireland. Organizers said that more than half of those who signed the letter were from the United States.

“We affirm that Hamas’s sins and crimes do not relieve the government of Israel of its obligations to make whatever efforts are necessary to prevent mass starvation,” the letter said. “Orthodox Jewry, as some of Israel’s most devoted supporters, bears a unique moral responsibility. We must affirm that Judaism’s vision of justice and compassion extends to all human beings.”

A primary organizer was Rabbi Yosef Blau, the former religious leader of Yeshiva University, a Modern Orthodox institution in Manhattan. Rabbi Blau said his concerns encompassed not only the Israeli government’s treatment of civilians in Gaza but also reported violence against Palestinians by Orthodox Jewish settlers in the West Bank.

“The responsibility and the lack of concern that Hamas has for the health and welfare of its own people does not free Israel from having responsibility for the destruction that it has caused,” Rabbi Blau said. “It is not a zero-sum game.”

The Jewish community is far from a monolith, and support for the tactics and mission of Israel’s war in Gaza has varied. But until recently, many mainstream Jewish organizations and leaders had defended Israel’s war against Hamas, if with growing unease.

“Even in the midst of a horrific immoral war started by Hamas, it doesn’t take away from our responsibility to feed and to provide medical care for the civilian population,” he said.

Some of the rabbis’ positions echo the anguished calls of protesters and prominent academics, authors, politicians and retired military leaders in Israel, who are increasingly raising alarms about potential war crimes being carried out by the government in their name.

Ministers in the Netanyahu government who have called for Israeli settlers to expel and replace Palestinians in Gaza have “consistently morally compromised Israel’s actions,” the Union for Reform Judaism said last month.

“No one should spend the bulk of their time arguing technical definitions between starvation and pervasive hunger. The situation is dire, and it is deadly,” the group wrote. “Nor should we accept arguments that because Hamas is the primary reason many Gazans are either starving or on the verge of starving, that the Jewish State is not also culpable in this human disaster.”

In the United States, the war has created painful rifts within the Jewish community dividing families, congregations, religious schools and community organizations. Older and more religiously observant Jews have been stauncher defenders of Israel, arguing that the country’s very survival is at stake — as well as the safety of Jews outside Israel.

But as the war has dragged on, younger and more secular Jews have recoiled from images of carnage and destruction in Gaza, seeing Israel and its government as responsible for the war’s continuation and its toll of devastation.

There's more in the article if you dare to read it. It's not behind a paywall. Good to see so many Jewish people waking up to the reality of what Israel is doing to innocent people.

These are American Jews criticising Israel. Jews in America get the same news as non-Jews. The news is strongly antisemtic right now. They're bound to get influenced by it. The people spreading antisemitic hate in this thread have managed to convince themselves they're not. I've been accused of racism and bigotry in this thread by people expressing racist and bigoted views. There's a huge blind spot right now among leftists. It's like a massive leftist mass psychosis, where people are feeding eachothers narratives and managing to convince themselves they're not a tool of evil.

There's plenty of Jews in Israel who also have bought into the bullshit pro-Palestinian propaganda. Loads. No, they're not antisemitic. But they are spreading an antisemitic narrative. Which is pretty typical of Jews. They have historically, fucking sucked at standing up for themselves. A result of being more inward looking than outward looking.

On the starvation in Gaza. There exists food. USAID is providing it. It's a war zone. Hamas are trying to prevent people from getting USAID aid. If people aren't able to get the USAID food, then that's on Hamas. Hamas has weaponised aid since they first took over. It's important they're not longer able to control the aid in Gaza.

The claim that Israel is starving Gazans is an antisemitic lie. If Jews spread this lie, they're still spreading an antisemtic lie, even if they're not antisemites. Narratives are powerful.

And finally, when Jews spread antisemitic lies it's just sad. But when non-Jews do it than it's malicious and actual antisemtism. It's fueled by something different. Hate directed inwards should trigger compassion. Hate directed outwards should trigger anger in the rest of us that have a working moral compass.

These are Jewish people around the world, not just American Jewish people and Rabbis. Are you incapable of reading or is your mind so closed that you don't want to know the truth? This isn't about being anti Jewish. It's about being against a cruel leader who is trying to wipe out an entire group of people and take over the land they have been living on for decades. I don't understand how you can justify that.

As the Jewish people in the article have stated, while Hamas started this, it doesn't justify what Israel is doing. I hate what's currently going on in my country, but that doesn't make me un American. It just means I want my country to get rid of a psychopathic leader who is destroying our democracy.

There is a line that I like from an old jazz song that goes, "Even when I hate you, it's only because I love you." I feel that way about my country sometimes and I'm sure many Israelis feel that way about their country as well.

Let's separate two issues:

1) Whether or not Netanyahu's response is a good one. I have not managed to find anyone who thinks Netanyahu has handled this well. I've been impressed by how he's handled a lot of stuff in this conflict. But overall I'm pretty critical. His strategic choices are questionable IMHO. Especially his lack of communication. In true Jewish fashion he assumes that everyone criticising Israel are antisemites and can't be bothered to explain himself. That's less than helpful.

2) Whether or not Israel has a right to go into Gaza to forcibly remove Hamas.

If you're not clear on which you are criticising than the assumption will be that you are against Israel going into Gaza with force at all. Hamas has since forever said they're sworn to destroy Israel and murder all Jews. In the 7/10 attack they demonstrated that it's more than just talk. That makes this an existential issue for Israel. In Gaza, for whatever reason, there doesn't seem to be any political movement for peace with Israel. None. Not among expat Palestinians, nor in Gaza itself. Israel, of course, needs to act accordingly. Otherwise it would be suicidal for Israel, both Jewish and Palestinian Israelis.

 

[DrZoidberg]

Here's a documentary about the fall of Idi Amin. A kind of ruler quite similar to Hamas. He certainly ruled in a similar way. His downfall was the miscalculated invasion of Tanzania. Who had had enough of Idi Amin's provocation and continual aggression. And invaded. Leading to Idi Amin's overthrow. In hindsight it led to 9 years of bloody civil war in Uganda. Nobody thought that stability under Idi Amin was preferable.

Notice how the way we talk about the invasion of Gaza is very different than the way we talk about this invasion. Notice how differently we talk about Hamas, Gaza and the Palestinians compared to how people talked about Uganda under Idi Amin.

Everybody was cheering the invasion of Uganda. Everyone in the civilised part of the world wanted to see his downfall. Fun fact... Idi Amin's regime was supported by the Islamic states.... because Islam. That alone gave him their support. How the fuck has Hamas managed to get anyone's support outside the Islamic world!?! Is it possibly because Julius Nyere wasn't Jewish?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Geezussss. So much bullshit in five tiny paragraphs.

You do know USAID was disbanded several months ago, right?

Ok. Now its called GHF. Same thing. Israel is still distributing aid, and doing the best they can while keeping Hamas away from being able to control it

Not remotely the same thing.

USAID was part of the problem--as normal, the aid gets controlled by the local oppressors. The UN is still providing aid that basically all goes to Hamas. The GHF is not part of USAID, it's actually bypassing the local oppressors and so Hamas is going bonkers over it.

 

[Derec]

Turkish broadcaster TRT caught using old photo from Yemen, claiming it was a recent one from Gaza.
Major broadcaster uses decade-old photo of starving Yemeni child for article about hunger in Gaza

And our own media outlets are blindly following whatever Hamas dishes out, without a shred of critical thinking.
It turns out that there are still restaurants open in Gaza.

Another video:

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Oops, they let the mask slip.



MSF was complaining about one of their people in Gaza getting killed. Israel just published a picture of the guy in Hamas uniform.



MSF's own data of those they treated for injuries is quite different than the population demographics.

 

[Politesse]

So is the argument that Doctors Without Borders is some sort of far left, antisemitic organization? If so, that's absurd. They're doctors, not politicians. They are funded by public donations. Why would they be telling lies about the situation on the ground, how could that possibly benefit themselves or their mission? I can't think of any. L Whereas Israel has every reason to try and convince us that every nurse they murder in cold blood was Hamas in disguise. And that all the child killings are fake news.

 

[DrZoidberg]

Geezussss. So much bullshit in five tiny paragraphs.

You do know USAID was disbanded several months ago, right?

Ok. Now its called GHF. Same thing. Israel is still distributing aid, and doing the best they can while keeping Hamas away from being able to control it

Not remotely the same thing.

USAID was part of the problem--as normal, the aid gets controlled by the local oppressors. The UN is still providing aid that basically all goes to Hamas. The GHF is not part of USAID, it's actually bypassing the local oppressors and so Hamas is going bonkers over it.

Ok, thanks. I looked it up now. I meant GHF all the time. USAID was, as you say, part of the problem and had their aid distributed via UNRWA, which means Hamas.

It's good GHF distributes all the aid. It's a bit weird in this conflict where the UN has sided with a fascist organisation and letting them distribute their aid, in a situation where the Hamas leaders are litteral billionairs, and who's entire fortune comes from embezzled foreign aid.

 

[DrZoidberg]

So is the argument that Doctors Without Borders is some sort of far left, antisemitic organization? If so, that's absurd. They're doctors, not politicians. They are funded by public donations. Why would they be telling lies about the situation on the ground, how could that possibly benefit themselves or their mission? I can't think of any. L Whereas Israel has every reason to try and convince us that every nurse they murder in cold blood was Hamas in disguise. And that all the child killings are fake news.

The doctors without borders are doctors and have therefore signed the hipocratic oath. A ceasefire now would, quite correctly, lead to less death and less problems in the immediate future. Doctors without borders does not get involved in politics. They're a one trick pony. Which is why they're allowed access into situations where the rulers might be... let's say a bloodthirsty islamofascist regime. They have to say this. Long term, Israel backing off would of course, be a catastrophe, for everyone involved, including the Palestinianians.

Hamas uses hospitals and military bases. Their fighters dress as civilians. Of course this will lead to doctors and nurses accidentaly getting shot. Probably often.

Hamas uses child soldiers. A child with a gun can kill an adult IDF soldier. If a child is holding a gun in Gaza, they will get shot. They even might get shot if they're not holding a gun. If a IDF soldier thinks they might have a gun, or pose some other military threat.

Pay attention to who says what and why they're saying it.

Stop being a tool for Hamas. They haven't earned any of your love and support, have they? Be honest now. How can you support the continuation of a regime that endagers civilians like this?

 

[Politesse]

So is the argument that Doctors Without Borders is some sort of far left, antisemitic organization? If so, that's absurd. They're doctors, not politicians. They are funded by public donations. Why would they be telling lies about the situation on the ground, how could that possibly benefit themselves or their mission? I can't think of any. L Whereas Israel has every reason to try and convince us that every nurse they murder in cold blood was Hamas in disguise. And that all the child killings are fake news.

The doctors without borders are doctors and have therefore signed the hipocratic oath. A ceasefire now would, quite correctly, lead to less death and less problems in the immediate future. Doctors without borders does not get involved in politics. They're a one trick pony. Which is why they're allowed access into situations where the rulers might be... let's say a bloodthirsty islamofascist regime. They have to say this. Long term, Israel backing off would of course, be a catastrophe, for everyone involved, including the Palestinianians.

Hamas uses hospitals and military bases. Their fighters dress as civilians. Of course this will lead to doctors and nurses accidentaly getting shot. Probably often.

Hamas uses child soldiers. A child with a gun can kill an adult IDF soldier. If a child is holding a gun in Gaza, they will get shot. They even might get shot if they're not holding a gun. If a IDF soldier thinks they might have a gun, or pose some other military threat.

Pay attention to who says what and why they're saying it.

Stop being a tool for Hamas. They haven't earned any of your love and support, have they? Be honest now. How can you support the continuation of a regime that endagers civilians like this?

That is laughable. I am not a "tool for Hamas". You're working for them directly, by supporting the exact political actions they intended to provoke from The West. They wrote a part for your country in their score, and you're singing it like a bird. You're being played for a fool by very evil men, and you're enjoying it.

 

[DrZoidberg]

So is the argument that Doctors Without Borders is some sort of far left, antisemitic organization? If so, that's absurd. They're doctors, not politicians. They are funded by public donations. Why would they be telling lies about the situation on the ground, how could that possibly benefit themselves or their mission? I can't think of any. L Whereas Israel has every reason to try and convince us that every nurse they murder in cold blood was Hamas in disguise. And that all the child killings are fake news.

The doctors without borders are doctors and have therefore signed the hipocratic oath. A ceasefire now would, quite correctly, lead to less death and less problems in the immediate future. Doctors without borders does not get involved in politics. They're a one trick pony. Which is why they're allowed access into situations where the rulers might be... let's say a bloodthirsty islamofascist regime. They have to say this. Long term, Israel backing off would of course, be a catastrophe, for everyone involved, including the Palestinianians.

Hamas uses hospitals and military bases. Their fighters dress as civilians. Of course this will lead to doctors and nurses accidentaly getting shot. Probably often.

Hamas uses child soldiers. A child with a gun can kill an adult IDF soldier. If a child is holding a gun in Gaza, they will get shot. They even might get shot if they're not holding a gun. If a IDF soldier thinks they might have a gun, or pose some other military threat.

Pay attention to who says what and why they're saying it.

Stop being a tool for Hamas. They haven't earned any of your love and support, have they? Be honest now. How can you support the continuation of a regime that endagers civilians like this?

That is laughable. I am not a "tool for Hamas". You're working for them directly, by supporting the exact political actions they intended to provoke from The West. They wrote a part for your country in their score, and you're singing it like a bird. You're being played for a fool by very evil men, and you're enjoying it.

What are you talking about? Hamas is using Palestinians as human shields, in order to manipulate an outrage against Israel if they retaliated after the 7/10 attack.

If you have a working moral compas it should make you want Israel to hurry the fuck up to depose Hamas.

If you are a moral degenerate, you might want Israel to stop, in order to help save the Hamas regime.

Which one of those do you think fits you best?

 

[bilby]

Hamas is using Palestinians as human shields, in order to manipulate an outrage against Israel if they retaliated after the 7/10 attack.

Yup. And it's working pretty well.

If you have a working moral compas it should make you want Israel to hurry the fuck up to depose Hamas.

If you are a moral degenerate, you might want Israel to stop, in order to help save the Hamas regime.

This applies only if we accept the unwritten premise that what Israel is doing is the kind of thing that might result in deposing Hamas.

That premise is false; You can't stop people from hating you, and therefore from supporting your stated enemies, by dropping bombs on their families.

I do want Hamas to be deposed, quick smart. That's one reason why I think the IDF should stop. Not to save the Hamas regime, but to discontinue their bolstering of it.

Your simpleton's take on all this is very popular, and very wrong; And by pushing it, you are indeed acting as a total fucking tool.

 

[DrZoidberg]

Hamas is using Palestinians as human shields, in order to manipulate an outrage against Israel if they retaliated after the 7/10 attack.

Yup. And it's working pretty well.

Which is a collective failure of the West. We clearly have lost our progressive values

If you have a working moral compas it should make you want Israel to hurry the fuck up to depose Hamas.

If you are a moral degenerate, you might want Israel to stop, in order to help save the Hamas regime.

This applies only if we accept the unwritten premise that what Israel is doing is the kind of thing that might result in deposing Hamas.

Israel needs to control all of Gaza. When they do that Hamas will be neutered. A two state solution is not going to happen. The 7/10 saw to that.

Hamas built Gaza into a fortress and a death trap. That only means Isreal's progress is slowed down. There's still progress

Wars, typically, are slow. Artillery and bombardment flatten the region where there's opposition. Only when the enemy stops shooting back do ground troops go in. Every army avoids urban combat if possible.

if think you might have seen too many action movies. Reality is different

That premise is false; You can't stop people from hating you, and therefore from supporting your stated enemies, by dropping bombs on their families.

This is an old leftist trope. Sprung from Marxist studies in the 70'ies. Which in turn came as a result of trying to explain why our colonial empires fell apart. They didn't fall apart because the natives hated us. They fell apart because they were corrupt and dysfunctional. The post colonial dictatorships were only copies of the western government's before it. We just weren't honest with ourselves on how the colonies were run. Which is why it was such a mystery to us when they collapsed. It wasn’t because we'd failed the popularity contest.

If people are safe and prosperous they don't care about freedom. Hamas bought Palestinian loyalty in Gaza with Iranian money. Now the Palestinians have learned the true price of taking that bribe, so won't do that again. But it's a fascist regime, and needs to be removed like any fascist regime. Through a process we call de-radicalisation. Its been tried and tested many times it'll work in Gaza to.

I do want Hamas to be deposed, quick smart. That's one reason why I think the IDF should stop. Not to save the Hamas regime, but to discontinue their bolstering of it.

So what's your genius plan for that to happen? Let me guess, it's unrealistic and a complete fantasy?

Your simpleton's take on all this is very popular, and very wrong; And by pushing it, you are indeed acting as a total fucking tool.

A tool of what? Who' s manipulating me?

 

[Politesse]

What are you talking about? Hamas is using Palestinians as human shields, in order to manipulate an outrage against Israel if they retaliated after the 7/10 attack.

Not just against Israel, but all of her allies. And you are helping them.

If you have a working moral compas it should make you want Israel to hurry the fuck up to depose Hamas.

Israel's actions have not "deposed Hamas" in any meaningful sense.

If you are a moral degenerate, you might want Israel to stop, in order to help save the Hamas regime.

If it is moral degeneracy to oppose genocide, morality is a joke.

Which one of those do you think fits you best?

I am often called a degenerate, for a host of reasons, by people of your type. My philosophy, my politics, my religion, my marriage. Join the club.

 

[DrZoidberg]

What are you talking about? Hamas is using Palestinians as human shields, in order to manipulate an outrage against Israel if they retaliated after the 7/10 attack.

Not just against Israel, but all of her allies. And you are helping them.

Take me through your logic of how I am helping "them"? And who is "them".

If you have a working moral compas it should make you want Israel to hurry the fuck up to depose Hamas.

Israel's actions have not "deposed Hamas" in any meaningful sense.

How do you mean? Hamas fighters are able to move within an ever decreasing area. Israel is moving slowly and methodically. The IDF will just keep taking over new areas of Gaza until Hamas capitulates. If they don't Israel will eventually take over all of it, and that will be the end of Hamas.

But already now Hamas is barely able to operate. All they can do is terrorise the Gazan civilians.

If you are a moral degenerate, you might want Israel to stop, in order to help save the Hamas regime.

If it is moral degeneracy to oppose genocide, morality is a joke.

Its not genocide. Calling it genocide is just good ole' antisemitism imho. If you can't see that then I will just think you are too blinded by racist hate against Jews to be able to think clearly about it. That’s what it looks like to me.

Which one of those do you think fits you best?

I am often called a degenerate, for a host of reasons, by people of your type. My philosophy, my politics, my religion, my marriage. Join the club.

You're welcome. If you hear it a lot then perhaps there's well earned reasons for it. Ever considered that?

I don't know you so I won't speculate on what those reasons may be.

 

[Politesse]

Take me through your logic of how I am helping "them"? And who is "them".

Hamas and the hardliners in the Israeli government, directly. Crazed jihadis and right wing militarists, globally. Everyone who wants to drown this planet in blood just to rehash ancient grievances and make a few old men wealthier than they already are selling arms and humanitarian aid to whoever will pay.

How do you mean? Hamas fighters are able to move within an ever decreasing area. Israel is moving slowly and methodically. The IDF will just keep taking over new areas of Gaza until Hamas capitulates. If they don't Israel will eventually take over all of it, and that will be the end of Hamas.

This is an insane take, unrelated to the actual, lived history of Palestine. Even if Hamas the organization were somehow utterly disbanded, it would change nothing in the long run. Our grandchildren would still be fighting a bitter and endless war against the New Reformed Hamas Liberation Front or the Second Palestinian Liberation Squadron when you and I are fifty years in the grave. Genocide does not end cultural disagreements, it prolongs them.

Its not genocide. Calling it genocide is just good ole' antisemitism imho. If you can't see that then I will just think you are too blinded by racist hate against Jews to be able to think clearly about it. That’s what it looks like to me.

No, I am not. Actually, the Jewish people know better than anyone what the consequences look like when the world turns a blind eye to genocide. You are a fine one to talk to me about racism, while you beg me to see the death of an Israeli child as a tragedy, and the death of Palestinian child as a perfectly justifiable oopsie.

You're welcome. If you hear it a lot then perhaps there's well earned reasons for it. Ever considered that?

Religious bigotry and scoail media fueled stupidity, mostly.