Merged Gaza just launched an unprovoked attack on Israel

[Loren Pechtel]

I have a (philosopher) friend who I think might have the best explanation for why the left is pro Ukraine, but anti Israel. It has to do with power and power diffrential. The left today is obsessed with relative power. Arguably, they always were. Whoever has the most power is always in the wrong, no matter what anyone has done.

That might explain why leftists are so anti America. Like they can't do anything right.

I think it's a good theory.

Basically the same thing I have said in a different way. There's a solution. The side with the power is expected to find it. If they didn't find it that means they didn't look hard enough because faith says it must exist. The total inability for anyone to find it means nothing.

Thousands of years of recorded history tells us that wars end.

Army vs army wars end. But the modern proxy wars only end either with the destruction of the opponent or because the sponsor decides to quit funding it--and that's always been for internal reasons, not because of the war.

Your belief that this particular one can't end in anything but genocide and ethnic cleansing is a product of your mindset, not an inevitable conclusion given the history of the region or the world.

I do not say it can never end. I say it can never end so long as the side sponsoring the proxy war wants it to continue.

The only such things that have ended have been because the flow of money dried up. Much of that due to the collapse of Russia.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Hamas is to blame for the slaughter. They can end the whole thing immediately: Surrender unconditionally, totally disarm, and release all the hostages.

Wouldn't even take that. Release all the hostages, the world would quickly stop Israel.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Hamas is to blame for the slaughter. They can end the whole thing immediately: Surrender unconditionally, totally disarm, and release all the hostages.

Sure they could. They ain't gonna though, so why waste pixels talking about it?

Because it's the only way there will be peace. You have this fantasy that the side with the power has a peaceful solution. Appeasement. Just look at history--every time Israel acts like you want them to act Jews get killed at a higher rate. Dealing with the bully is hard so you blame the victim. Happens everywhere until we finally wake up to the reality. We have mostly learned this with domestic violence, but we continue the same thing in many other realms.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I have my doubts that this war will never truly end. There will be cooling off periods for sure. And one is probably coming sometime soon, who knows. But since 1948, hardline Palestinians (who control Gaza and the West Bank) have wanted Jewish land; and the hard line Israelis (who control Israel) have wanted Palestinian land. Until this changes on both sides, there will be no peace.

All the Palestinian factions consider all of Israel to be Palestinian land.

 

[Arctish]

I have my doubts that this war will never truly end. There will be cooling off periods for sure. And one is probably coming sometime soon, who knows. But since 1948, hardline Palestinians (who control Gaza and the West Bank) have wanted Jewish land; and the hard line Israelis (who control Israel) have wanted Palestinian land. Until this changes on both sides, there will be no peace.

All the Palestinian factions consider all of Israel to be Palestinian land.

Support this claim.

List the Palestinian factions.

Then show us which ones renounce the deal the PLO struck with the government of Israel that ceded all of the land inside the 1967 borders to the State of Israel.

 

[steve_bank]

It is official, Israel is making a major expansion of settlements in the West Bank. More Palestinians displaced by Jewish settlers.

It is all well past Jews being the victim and making excuses. Actions speak for themselves.

Palestinians living in peace? Israel was formed by seizing land and preventing Arabs from returning to their land.

It is a de facto genocide. I see no other way but to call Israel a racist state.

A nearby synagogue hosts a monthly dinner and I was planning on attending one. Not interested any more.

Unless that synagogue supports Netanahyu or settlement expansion, why not go? After all, the synagogue is not Israel.

Well before the war the synagogue was a target for threats and vandalism. Hate speech graffiti.

Attending a dinner was more about showing community support. No group should be harassed like that for politics and religion.

My father had 5 brothers and two sisters. My fat5er was not racist, two of my uncles were explicit Routine use of racist slurs including Jews. I heard it all growing up.

 

[DrZoidberg]

I have my doubts that this war will never truly end. There will be cooling off periods for sure. And one is probably coming sometime soon, who knows. But since 1948, hardline Palestinians (who control Gaza and the West Bank) have wanted Jewish land; and the hard line Israelis (who control Israel) have wanted Palestinian land. Until this changes on both sides, there will be no peace.

All the Palestinian factions consider all of Israel to be Palestinian land.

I think the main confusion on the pro Palestinine crowd is that they don't understand that Palestinians are overwhelmingly Islamic imperialists. The only thing they're willing to accept is complete Muslim dominance over Jews. They think its humiliating to have to treat Jews as equals. And that’s why they're so angry. And have been since 1948.

The western left have always been too racist to take the time to listen what the ex colonials actually want and say. Instead they project all kinds of woke nonsense onto them. Treating them like their tokens to hit conservatives with

 

[DrZoidberg]

I’m just wondering where all of us Americans of European descent are going to live, after we rightfully return all the land once inhabited by the Native American tribes back to them.
We won’t all fit, in Gaza…

FYI the right to dominate ancestral lands is a Nazi thing to say. But wokes somehow forget that.

Everyone's ancestors was an asshole at some point and the reason you are alive at all is because your ancestors killed and opressed someone at some point. Nobody is an ancestral angel.

Peace is reached by setting aside past grievances, agreeing that it probably wasn't great, what was done, (no matter what it was) and validating each others pain.

 

[robnisch]

 

[Harry Bosch]

I have my doubts that this war will never truly end. There will be cooling off periods for sure. And one is probably coming sometime soon, who knows. But since 1948, hardline Palestinians (who control Gaza and the West Bank) have wanted Jewish land; and the hard line Israelis (who control Israel) have wanted Palestinian land. Until this changes on both sides, there will be no peace.

All the Palestinian factions consider all of Israel to be Palestinian land.

Support this claim.

List the Palestinian factions.

Then show us which ones renounce the deal the PLO struck with the government of Israel that ceded all of the land inside the 1967 borders to the State of Israel.

I would like to disagree with Loren. I don't have evidence either way. He might be right. Is there a Palestinian faction that is okay with rejecting right of return; that is open to limiting its potential country in a two-state solution to land inside the 67 borders and to East Jerusalem?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I have my doubts that this war will never truly end. There will be cooling off periods for sure. And one is probably coming sometime soon, who knows.

That's exactly how I felt about the Irish 'Troubles'. The IRA were never going away, the border between the Republic and the Six Counties would always be heavily militarised, and terririst attacks in England and against British military forces around the world would would continue to happen, with occasional flare-ups, interspersed with cooling-off periods.

They ended when the money went away.

I felt the same way about the Cold War; The USSR and the USA would always be facing off in a thermonuclear stalemate across the Iron Curtain, with diplomaric machinations, strategic moves of forces, brinkmanship, and proxy wars worldwide, hotly fought but with just enough remove from the main players to avoid nuclear war - most of the time.

And then, one day, it all went away.

As I said, internal problems. And note how the Marxist terror groups went away when Russia collapsed.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Israel military strike in Doha. Sounds like they might not have got much out of it.

Sure they did - putting the kibosh on ceasefire talks, thereby costing Trump is Nobel Peace

I don't know about that. Now they've made it personal. Now the Hamas leaders are also risking their own lives by prolonging the war. It might turn out to be a smart move.

Exactly. Directly, apparently nothing. Indirectly, perhaps a lot. And if the reports that Israel told Qatar before they hit and that Hamas got off the X because of that they've established the precedent that there's a leak, next time they won't be tipped off.

A Qatar isn't neutral. Sheltering known terrorists isn't being neutral.

The only reason they're protecting Hamas is because of retarded Islamic tribalism. That's not a valid excuse

I suspect there's Iranian money involved.

 

[laughing dog]

Israel military strike in Doha. Sounds like they might not have got much out of it.

Sure they did - putting the kibosh on ceasefire talks, thereby costing Trump is Nobel Peace

I don't know about that. Now they've made it personal. Now the Hamas leaders are also risking their own lives by prolonging the war. It might turn out to be a smart move.

Exactly. Directly, apparently nothing. Indirectly, perhaps a lot.

A Qatar isn't neutral. Sheltering known terrorists isn't being neutral.

The only reason they're protecting Hamas is because of retarded Islamic tribalism. That's not a valid excuse

I suspect there's Iranian money involved.

You think Qatar needs or wants Iranian money?

 

[Colonel Sanders]

I have my doubts that this war will never truly end. There will be cooling off periods for sure. And one is probably coming sometime soon, who knows. But since 1948, hardline Palestinians (who control Gaza and the West Bank) have wanted Jewish land; and the hard line Israelis (who control Israel) have wanted Palestinian land. Until this changes on both sides, there will be no peace.

All the Palestinian factions consider all of Israel to be Palestinian land.

Support this claim.

List the Palestinian factions.

Then show us which ones renounce the deal the PLO struck with the government of Israel that ceded all of the land inside the 1967 borders to the State of Israel.

"From the river to the sea" is a sentiment and goal alive and well among the Hamas and the government of that support them (see Iran). I've seen this retconned as a call to peaceful integration among Palestinians and Jews, but that's as disingenuous as Arafat's "ceding land" to Israel.

The PLO had no authority to give land to anyone because it wasn't a government; it was a terrorist organization.

The Oslo Accords divided up the area into three different sections (generally speaking). It wasn't about Arafat ceding land, it was an attempt to stop the violence.

In 1967 Jordan was one of the nations that tried to invade Israel. At the time Jordan controlled the area that is now known as Palestine. It was only after Israel kicked their ass multiple times that the Arab aggressor states gave up. Then, for all practical purposes, the PLO eventually became Hamas.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

For all the moral lepers who support Israel’s ethnic cleansing and genocide in Gaza

One sentence says all you really need to know about that piece:

Cement trucks are churning out concrete to fill tunnels.

Filling Hamas tunnels is an evil act? Only if you support terrorism.

As Israeli tanks advance, Palestinians are fleeing, with neighborhoods such as Sabra and Tuffah, cleansed of its inhabitants.

Fleeing? Israel already called for the evacuation of the city. If people are still there it's because Hamas is making them stay.

There is little clean water and Israel plans to cut it off in northern Gaza.

As I said, they have called for the evacuation of the city. There's no need of water.

Food supplies are scarce or wildly overpriced. A bag of flour costs $22.00 a kilo, or your life.

And note they are implying that it's Israel but it's not--that's Hamas price.

A report published Friday by the Integrated Food Security Phase Classifications (IPC) , the world's leading authority on food insecurity, for the first time has confirmed a famine in Gaza City.

Except they're lying. Blatantly enough that Israel published a rebuttal.

https://govextra.gov.il/mda/ipc/gaza/

The Great Omari Mosque in Gaza City, the ancient Roman cemetery and the Commonwealth War Cemetery — where more than 3,000 British and commonwealth soldiers from World War I and World War II are buried — have been bombed, and destroyed, along with universities, archives, hospitals, mosques, churches, homes and apartment blocks. Anthedon Harbor, which dates to 1100 B.C. and once provided anchorage for Babylonian, Persian, Greek, Roman, Byzantine and Ottoman ships, lies in ruins.

I'm not aware of the specifics but it doesn't matter. Hamas uses these things for military purpose so they can cry to the world when they get destroyed.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The Israeli army took over my home, used it like a hotel, then set it on fire

Purely defensively, of course. And the penis graffiti in the daughter's bedroom was just boys saying they'd like to meet her.

1) Note: "Luxury apartments". This guy is Hamas-affiliated.

2) Note: Graffiti, yet supposedly burned when they left. The images of the graffiti show no signs of fire.

And, yes, Israel has demolished a fair number of buildings. Lots of stuff has become unstable, and booby-trapped buildings are simply destroyed, no attempt is made to make them safe. There's been a case where US law enforcement took the same approach--they couldn't be confident of clearing the booby traps so they destroyed the house rather than leave it for someone to find the booby traps the hard way.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Dr Z need a new moral compass. His compass keeps pointing south intended of north.

The trouble began with Jews arbitrarily declaring a state by force taking land and disparaging people.

Taking land? No. Israel agreed to the partition agreement. They declared a state on the land that was supposed to be given to them in the partition, the Arabs responded by attacking. The only Israeli action that predated the war was the declaration of the existence of the state. And declaration of the existence of a state does not take anybody's land. It changed what government owned public stuff, it didn't change anything private.

Same as if the city annexes the area we live in now. There are some city statutes that would apply, property taxes would go up and I would get to vote in the city council election. I would still own my house, though.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I’m just wondering where all of us Americans of European descent are going to live, after we rightfully return all the land once inhabited by the Native American tribes back to them.

The same place. We'd just pay tax to a local authority instead of to Washington. Is that such an awful thought?

Or go to their casinos.

The casinos would not be as important or popular in a world where being Indian didn't mean grinding poverty for most.

Same problem we get anywhere there has been heavy emigration. The reservations are in poverty because the people who make something of themselves don't stay. And because the governments aren't trustworthy. Nearby case that makes it clear: Hired a contractor to build something expensive. Didn't pay, seized the building for not completing the work. What was not complete is the utility hookups (and associated things that could only happen when the utilities were on)--that the government was not allowing to happen.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

View attachment 52093

This is the first I've heard of this. The strike that's been in the news was against Houthi government officials. Has there been another that went unreported?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I have my doubts that this war will never truly end. There will be cooling off periods for sure. And one is probably coming sometime soon, who knows. But since 1948, hardline Palestinians (who control Gaza and the West Bank) have wanted Jewish land; and the hard line Israelis (who control Israel) have wanted Palestinian land. Until this changes on both sides, there will be no peace.

All the Palestinian factions consider all of Israel to be Palestinian land.

Support this claim.

List the Palestinian factions.

Then show us which ones renounce the deal the PLO struck with the government of Israel that ceded all of the land inside the 1967 borders to the State of Israel.

I would like to disagree with Loren. I don't have evidence either way. He might be right. Is there a Palestinian faction that is okay with rejecting right of return; that is open to limiting its potential country in a two-state solution to land inside the 67 borders and to East Jerusalem?

They sometimes pretend to agree in English. Not in Arabic.