Merged Gaza just launched an unprovoked attack on Israel

[Derec]

That's the one.

That one came after Hamas invaded into Israel and captured a soldier.

In hindsight, Israel should not have released >1000 terrorists (including Yahya Sinwar) in exchange for Shalit.

 

[Arctish]

That's the one.

That one came after Hamas invaded into Israel and captured a soldier.

In hindsight, Israel should not have released >1000 terrorists (including Yahya Sinwar) in exchange for Shalit.

Yes, a criminal terrorist organization kidnapped a soldier. Israel retaliated by destroying the power plant that supplied electricity to millions of people, a blatant example of collective punishment and utterly illegal under the Geneva Conventions.

Israel doesn't even have the excuse of claiming it was responding to an attack committed by an enemy State's government. Hamas didn't battle Fatah and take over Gaza until the following year, no doubt emboldened by the widespread resentment Israel's actions generated as millions of uninvolved people were forced to scramble to keep their food from spoiling, their businesses open, their hospitals operational, and their kids in school.

Also, of those 1000 former prisoners, approx. 70% were never formally charged with a crime or had evidence against them presented in court, so declaring all of them terrorists is just you pretending to know the unknowable.

 

[Tigers!]

That's the one.

That one came after Hamas invaded into Israel and captured a soldier.

In hindsight, Israel should not have released >1000 terrorists (including Yahya Sinwar) in exchange for Shalit.

Yes, a criminal terrorist organization kidnapped a soldier. Israel retaliated by destroying the power plant that supplied electricity to millions of people, a blatant example of collective punishment and utterly illegal under the Geneva Conventions.

Israel doesn't even have the excuse of claiming it was responding to an attack committed by an enemy State's government. Hamas didn't battle Fatah and take over Gaza until the following year, no doubt emboldened by the widespread resentment Israel's actions generated as millions of uninvolved people were forced to scramble to keep their food from spoiling, their businesses open, their hospitals operational, and their kids in school.

The Gazans are not entirely blameless. They had opportunity to try to prevent Hamas from fully taking over and did not seem to take it.
Whilst there have been no elections since 2006 and polling as we understand it does not exist the Gazans as a whole seem to accept what Hamas is doing/has done. They are reaping what Hamas has sown.
Now some Gazans are rising up against Hamas but it took outside intervention to make it possible.
It was noted by the Israeli captives that not a single Gazan helped them or showed any compassion to them.

Also, of those 1000 former prisoners, approx. 70% were never formally charged with a crime or had evidence against them presented in court, so declaring all of them terrorists is just you pretending to know the unknowable.

Perhaps correct.

 

[steve_bank]

The average Palestinian in Gaza who just wanted to have a life were at the mercy of both Hamas and Israel.

I believe before the Intafada Palestinians from Gaza crossed into Israel for work and business. Israel was a market for Gazian goods.

AI Overview +6
An intifada is an Arabic word that means "uprising" or "shaking off". It is most widely used to describe two major periods of Palestinian protests, civil disobedience, and armed conflict against Israeli military rule in the West Bank and Gaza Strip.

Intifada - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

First Intifada - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The First Intifada (Arabic: الانتفاضة الأولى, romanized: al-Intifāḍa al-’Ūlā, lit. 'The First Uprising'), also known as the First Palestinian Intifada,[4][6] was a sustained uprising involving violent and non-violent protests, acts of civil disobedience, riots, and terrorist attacks carried out by Palestinian civilians and militants in the Israeli-occupied Palestinian territories and Israel.[7][8][9] It was motivated by collective Palestinian frustration over Israel's military occupation of the West Bank and the Gaza Strip as it approached a twenty-year mark, having begun in the wake of the 1967 Arab–Israeli War.[10][11] The uprising lasted from December 1987 until the Madrid Conference of 1991, though some date its conclusion to 1993, the year the Oslo Accords were signed.[4]

Way back I looked at a terrorist web site. It had a 'top 10' bombings in Israeli. Pictures of bloody streets, body parts, blown up busses.

Iran paid families of suicide bombers. Total religious fanaticism.

AI Overview Y
Yes, Iran has funded groups that make these payments and has publicly pledged money to the families of Palestinian attackers.

Direct Pledges: Iran has publicly promised and delivered millions of dollars through specific charities and regional offices to the families of Palestinian "martyrs", including those who carried out suicide attacks against Israelis.

 

[laughing dog]

That's the one.

That one came after Hamas invaded into Israel and captured a soldier.

In hindsight, Israel should not have released >1000 terrorists (including Yahya Sinwar) in exchange for Shalit.

Yes, a criminal terrorist organization kidnapped a soldier. Israel retaliated by destroying the power plant that supplied electricity to millions of people, a blatant example of collective punishment and utterly illegal under the Geneva Conventions.

Israel doesn't even have the excuse of claiming it was responding to an attack committed by an enemy State's government. Hamas didn't battle Fatah and take over Gaza until the following year, no doubt emboldened by the widespread resentment Israel's actions generated as millions of uninvolved people were forced to scramble to keep their food from spoiling, their businesses open, their hospitals operational, and their kids in school.

The Gazans are not entirely blameless. They had opportunity to try to prevent Hamas from fully taking over and did not seem to take it.
Whilst there have been no elections since 2006 and polling as we understand it does not exist the Gazans as a whole seem to accept what Hamas is doing/has done. They are reaping what Hamas has sown.
Now some Gazans are rising up against Hamas but it took outside intervention to make it possible.

If someone argued that that Israelis are partly to blame for Hamas and its Oct 3 horrendous attack because they elected Netanahyu, had plenty if time to get rid of him and he helped fund Hamas, I suspect you’d soundly reject such argument as ridiculous. And rightly so.

Add that about half of the Gazans were not alive in 2006, and you might be able to see why others might see your argument as unconvincing.

It was noted by the Israeli captives that not a single Gazan helped them or showed any compassion to them.

Not only does their expressed and understandable oral opinion rebut their claim, they can have no knowledge of anyone who may have helped them covertly or indirectly.

 

[Arctish]

That's the one.

That one came after Hamas invaded into Israel and captured a soldier.

In hindsight, Israel should not have released >1000 terrorists (including Yahya Sinwar) in exchange for Shalit.

Yes, a criminal terrorist organization kidnapped a soldier. Israel retaliated by destroying the power plant that supplied electricity to millions of people, a blatant example of collective punishment and utterly illegal under the Geneva Conventions.

Israel doesn't even have the excuse of claiming it was responding to an attack committed by an enemy State's government. Hamas didn't battle Fatah and take over Gaza until the following year, no doubt emboldened by the widespread resentment Israel's actions generated as millions of uninvolved people were forced to scramble to keep their food from spoiling, their businesses open, their hospitals operational, and their kids in school.

The Gazans are not entirely blameless. They had opportunity to try to prevent Hamas from fully taking over and did not seem to take it.

You mean rising up en masse and participating in the civil war between Hamas and Fatah?

How many politically unaffiliated Gazans do you think had weapons and access to bullets? How were they supposed to prevent Hamas from fully taking over? You're talking about a population living on the edge of malnutrition that couldn't get their goods to markets, couldn't get to their own fishing grounds, could barely get enough electricity to keep their bare-bones economy functioning, had barely enough potable water to meet minimum daily requirements, etc.

How were the Gazans supposed to prevent Hamas from taking over?

And why would they bother when Israel was going to kick the shit out of them either way?

Israel was their biggest problem. Israel wrecked their economy, blew up their power plant, kept them hungry, destroyed their infrastructure and their schools, and with Netanyahu leading the government was going to crush and re-colonize them no matter who was nominally in charge.

Whilst there have been no elections since 2006 and polling as we understand it does not exist the Gazans as a whole seem to accept what Hamas is doing/has done. They are reaping what Hamas has sown.
Now some Gazans are rising up against Hamas but it took outside intervention to make it possible.
It was noted by the Israeli captives that not a single Gazan helped them or showed any compassion to them.

Not entirely true.

Some hostages were psychically abused. All suffered psychologically. Some were fed and housed as well as the Gazans around them, especially the elderly and children who were released early on. All of them were kept in buildings controlled by Hamas and guarded by Hamas members. As conditions in Gaza deteriorated, the conditions under which the remaining hostages were kept got worse and they suffered more.

Anyway, it looks like you're using the experiences of the hostages to pass judgement on the character of Gazans in general. I've got some links to reports on the abuse Gazans kidnapped by the IDF have suffered. Shall we use those to pass judgement on Israelis in general?

Also, of those 1000 former prisoners, approx. 70% were never formally charged with a crime or had evidence against them presented in court, so declaring all of them terrorists is just you pretending to know the unknowable.

Perhaps correct.

Perhaps?

Perhaps ~700 of the released prisoners were never charged with a crime? Perhaps there is no known evidence any of them were terrorists?

Perhaps you don't know what 'administrative detention' means.

 

[Derec]

Not just journalists. Hamas' own death notices confirm that many health workers are also moonlighting as terrorists. Or are terrorists moonlighting as healthcare workers?

Gaza death notices show some so-called health workers were operating for terror groups

 

[laughing dog]

Not just journalists. Hamas' own death notices confirm that many health workers are also moonlighting as terrorists. Or are terrorists moonlighting as healthcare workers?

Gaza death notices show some so-called health workers were operating for terror groups

I read the article. The “many” is an exaggeration. As is “moonlighting as terrorists”.

Employment by Hamas does not make one a terrorist. Engaging in terrorism makes one a terrorist.

 

[Tigers!]

That's the one.

That one came after Hamas invaded into Israel and captured a soldier.

In hindsight, Israel should not have released >1000 terrorists (including Yahya Sinwar) in exchange for Shalit.

Yes, a criminal terrorist organization kidnapped a soldier. Israel retaliated by destroying the power plant that supplied electricity to millions of people, a blatant example of collective punishment and utterly illegal under the Geneva Conventions.

Israel doesn't even have the excuse of claiming it was responding to an attack committed by an enemy State's government. Hamas didn't battle Fatah and take over Gaza until the following year, no doubt emboldened by the widespread resentment Israel's actions generated as millions of uninvolved people were forced to scramble to keep their food from spoiling, their businesses open, their hospitals operational, and their kids in school.

The Gazans are not entirely blameless. They had opportunity to try to prevent Hamas from fully taking over and did not seem to take it.
Whilst there have been no elections since 2006 and polling as we understand it does not exist the Gazans as a whole seem to accept what Hamas is doing/has done. They are reaping what Hamas has sown.
Now some Gazans are rising up against Hamas but it took outside intervention to make it possible.

If someone argued that that Israelis are partly to blame for Hamas and its Oct 3 horrendous attack because they elected Netanahyu, had plenty if time to get rid of him and he helped fund Hamas, I suspect you’d soundly reject such argument as ridiculous. And rightly so.

You would not absolve the Germans in the 1930s for their failure to stop Hitler. They had opportunity and responsibility. Tragically they did not take it up.

Add that about half of the Gazans were not alive in 2006, and you might be able to see why others might see your argument as unconvincing.

Agreed those not alive in 2006 are not responsible for what happened in 2006 but those alive in Oct 2023 must face up to what was done then.

It was noted by the Israeli captives that not a single Gazan helped them or showed any compassion to them.

Not only does their expressed and understandable oral opinion rebut their claim, they can have no knowledge of anyone who may have helped them covertly or indirectly.

 

[Tigers!]

Not just journalists. Hamas' own death notices confirm that many health workers are also moonlighting as terrorists. Or are terrorists moonlighting as healthcare workers?

Gaza death notices show some so-called health workers were operating for terror groups

I read the article. The “many” is an exaggeration. As is “moonlighting as terrorists”.

Employment by Hamas does not make one a terrorist. Engaging in terrorism makes one a terrorist.

Yet working for Hamas does mean you are contributing to their work (sic). If an attack is done you as am employee has helped contribute to that attack. Not delibrately but nonetheless you helped.

If someone worked for a Nazi-like organisation in the US and they claimed not to support such activities I doubt you would cut them any slack.

 

[Tigers!]

That's the one.

That one came after Hamas invaded into Israel and captured a soldier.

In hindsight, Israel should not have released >1000 terrorists (including Yahya Sinwar) in exchange for Shalit.

Yes, a criminal terrorist organization kidnapped a soldier. Israel retaliated by destroying the power plant that supplied electricity to millions of people, a blatant example of collective punishment and utterly illegal under the Geneva Conventions.

Israel doesn't even have the excuse of claiming it was responding to an attack committed by an enemy State's government. Hamas didn't battle Fatah and take over Gaza until the following year, no doubt emboldened by the widespread resentment Israel's actions generated as millions of uninvolved people were forced to scramble to keep their food from spoiling, their businesses open, their hospitals operational, and their kids in school.

The Gazans are not entirely blameless. They had opportunity to try to prevent Hamas from fully taking over and did not seem to take it.

You mean rising up en masse and participating in the civil war between Hamas and Fatah?

How many politically unaffiliated Gazans do you think had weapons and access to bullets? How were they supposed to prevent Hamas from fully taking over? You're talking about a population living on the edge of malnutrition that couldn't get their goods to markets, couldn't get to their own fishing grounds, could barely get enough electricity to keep their bare-bones economy functioning, had barely enough potable water to meet minimum daily requirements, etc.

How were the Gazans supposed to prevent Hamas from taking over?

And why would they bother when Israel was going to kick the shit out of them either way?

Israel was their biggest problem.

The biggest problem (for the Gazans) is their seemingly insatiable desire to attack Jews. If it were not Hamas then it would be Fatah or Islmaic Jihad or other of the assortment of anti-Jewish groups that proliferate in that area.
When Israel pulled out in 2005 both were given the opportunity to give peace a chance. They did not take it. Neither side truly wants to live in peace with the other. They are so caught up in the votex of violence that neither misses an opportunity to miss an opportunity for peace.

Israel wrecked their economy, blew up their power plant, kept them hungry, destroyed their infrastructure and their schools, and with Netanyahu leading the government was going to crush and re-colonize them no matter who was nominally in charge.

Whilst there have been no elections since 2006 and polling as we understand it does not exist the Gazans as a whole seem to accept what Hamas is doing/has done. They are reaping what Hamas has sown.
Now some Gazans are rising up against Hamas but it took outside intervention to make it possible.
It was noted by the Israeli captives that not a single Gazan helped them or showed any compassion to them.

Not entirely true.

Some hostages were psychically abused. All suffered psychologically. Some were fed and housed as well as the Gazans around them, especially the elderly and children who were released early on.

You make it sound like Hamas was being magnamonous in letting those hostages go.

All of them were kept in buildings controlled by Hamas and guarded by Hamas members. As conditions in Gaza deteriorated, the conditions under which the remaining hostages were kept got worse and they suffered more.

The hostages did not need to be there. They did not choose their circumstances.

Anyway, it looks like you're using the experiences of the hostages to pass judgement on the character of Gazans in general. I've got some links to reports on the abuse Gazans kidnapped by the IDF have suffered. Shall we use those to pass judgement on Israelis in general?

If you wish to do that I cannot stop you.

Also, of those 1000 former prisoners, approx. 70% were never formally charged with a crime or had evidence against them presented in court, so declaring all of them terrorists is just you pretending to know the unknowable.

Perhaps correct.

Perhaps?

Perhaps ~700 of the released prisoners were never charged with a crime? Perhaps there is no known evidence any of them were terrorists?

Perhaps you don't know what 'administrative detention' means.

What I know is that the cycle of violence is so ingrained that there appears to be no way to stop it.

 

[laughing dog]

That's the one.

That one came after Hamas invaded into Israel and captured a soldier.

In hindsight, Israel should not have released >1000 terrorists (including Yahya Sinwar) in exchange for Shalit.

Yes, a criminal terrorist organization kidnapped a soldier. Israel retaliated by destroying the power plant that supplied electricity to millions of people, a blatant example of collective punishment and utterly illegal under the Geneva Conventions.

Israel doesn't even have the excuse of claiming it was responding to an attack committed by an enemy State's government. Hamas didn't battle Fatah and take over Gaza until the following year, no doubt emboldened by the widespread resentment Israel's actions generated as millions of uninvolved people were forced to scramble to keep their food from spoiling, their businesses open, their hospitals operational, and their kids in school.

The Gazans are not entirely blameless. They had opportunity to try to prevent Hamas from fully taking over and did not seem to take it.
Whilst there have been no elections since 2006 and polling as we understand it does not exist the Gazans as a whole seem to accept what Hamas is doing/has done. They are reaping what Hamas has sown.
Now some Gazans are rising up against Hamas but it took outside intervention to make it possible.

If someone argued that that Israelis are partly to blame for Hamas and its Oct 3 horrendous attack because they elected Netanahyu, had plenty if time to get rid of him and he helped fund Hamas, I suspect you’d soundly reject such argument as ridiculous. And rightly so.

You would not absolve the Germans in the 1930s for their failure to stop Hitler. They had opportunity and responsibility. Tragically they did not take it up.

I don’t think the two situations are comparable.

Agreed those not alive in 2006 are not responsible for what happened in 2006 but those alive in Oct 2023 must face up to what was done then.

What does that even mean?

 

[laughing dog]

Not just journalists. Hamas' own death notices confirm that many health workers are also moonlighting as terrorists. Or are terrorists moonlighting as healthcare workers?

Gaza death notices show some so-called health workers were operating for terror groups

I read the article. The “many” is an exaggeration. As is “moonlighting as terrorists”.

Employment by Hamas does not make one a terrorist. Engaging in terrorism makes one a terrorist.

Yet working for Hamas does mean you are contributing to their work (sic). If an attack is done you as am employee has helped contribute to that attack. Not delibrately but nonetheless you helped.

Hamas was the Gazan gov’t. A postal worker or clerk or nurse who do their jobs and only their jobs are not contributing to the attack.

Using your logic, a USPS mail sorter in Oklahoma during the Vietnam war contributed to the Mi Lai massacre. Sorry, I don’t buy it.

If someone worked for a Nazi-like organisation in the US and they claimed not to support such activities I doubt you would cut them any slack.

Depends on the specifics.

 

[Tigers!]

.

If someone argued that that Israelis are partly to blame for Hamas and its Oct 3 horrendous attack because they elected Netanahyu, had plenty if time to get rid of him and he helped fund Hamas, I suspect you’d soundly reject such argument as ridiculous. And rightly so.

You would not absolve the Germans in the 1930s for their failure to stop Hitler. They had opportunity and responsibility. Tragically they did not take it up.

I don’t think the two situations are comparable.

But would you absolve the 1930s Germans of their failure to act? They could not claim ignorance. Ignorance of the final total perhaps but not ignorances of what the Nazis wished to do. Are they guilty of sleep walking into war and genocide? Or active participants?

Agreed those not alive in 2006 are not responsible for what happened in 2006 but those alive in Oct 2023 must face up to what was done then.

What does that even mean?

Could Hamas could have built all of those tunnels, launched all of those rockets, launched all of those cross border raids etc. if they did not have the support (sometimes reluctantly?) of a majority of the Gazan population? They needed workers, places to hide and so many people willing to look the other way or say or do nothing. That tells me that the Gazans accept enough of what Hamas was doing, is doing and will keep on doing.

 

[Tigers!]

Not just journalists. Hamas' own death notices confirm that many health workers are also moonlighting as terrorists. Or are terrorists moonlighting as healthcare workers?

Gaza death notices show some so-called health workers were operating for terror groups

I read the article. The “many” is an exaggeration. As is “moonlighting as terrorists”.

Employment by Hamas does not make one a terrorist. Engaging in terrorism makes one a terrorist.

Yet working for Hamas does mean you are contributing to their work (sic). If an attack is done you as am employee has helped contribute to that attack. Not delibrately but nonetheless you helped.

Hamas was the Gazan gov’t. A postal worker or clerk or nurse who do their jobs and only their jobs are not contributing to the attack.

Using your logic, a USPS mail sorter in Oklahoma during the Vietnam war contributed to the Mi Lai massacre. Sorry, I don’t buy it.

If you were employed by Hamas you were working for an employer that exists only to kill Jews. They cannot claim they did not know that.

If someone worked for a Nazi-like organisation in the US and they claimed not to support such activities I doubt you would cut them any slack.

Depends on the specifics.

Should you or I or the bloke over there work for a Nazi-like organisation?

 

[laughing dog]

.

If someone argued that that Israelis are partly to blame for Hamas and its Oct 3 horrendous attack because they elected Netanahyu, had plenty if time to get rid of him and he helped fund Hamas, I suspect you’d soundly reject such argument as ridiculous. And rightly so.

You would not absolve the Germans in the 1930s for their failure to stop Hitler. They had opportunity and responsibility. Tragically they did not take it up.

I don’t think the two situations are comparable.

But would you absolve the 1930s Germans of their failure to act? They could not claim ignorance. Ignorance of the final total perhaps but not ignorances of what the Nazis wished to do. Are they guilty of sleep walking into war and genocide? Or active participants?

I don’t believe in collective guilt.

Could Hamas could have built all of those tunnels, launched all of those rockets, launched all of those cross border raids etc. if they did not have the support (sometimes reluctantly?) of a majority of the Gazan population? They needed workers, places to hide and so many people willing to look the other way or say or do nothing. That tells me that the Gazans accept enough of what Hamas was doing, is doing and will keep on doing.

Yes, they could have done without the support of half the population.

Neither you nor I have a clue what “the Gazans” accept or not.

 

[laughing dog]

Not just journalists. Hamas' own death notices confirm that many health workers are also moonlighting as terrorists. Or are terrorists moonlighting as healthcare workers?

Gaza death notices show some so-called health workers were operating for terror groups

I read the article. The “many” is an exaggeration. As is “moonlighting as terrorists”.

Employment by Hamas does not make one a terrorist. Engaging in terrorism makes one a terrorist.

Yet working for Hamas does mean you are contributing to their work (sic). If an attack is done you as am employee has helped contribute to that attack. Not delibrately but nonetheless you helped.

Hamas was the Gazan gov’t. A postal worker or clerk or nurse who do their jobs and only their jobs are not contributing to the attack.

Using your logic, a USPS mail sorter in Oklahoma during the Vietnam war contributed to the Mi Lai massacre. Sorry, I don’t buy it.

If you were employed by Hamas you were working for an employer that exists only to kill Jews. They cannot claim they did not know that.

Hamas was the gov’t and a major employer. What any Gazan knew and what their options were to earn enough to support their household are two completely different motivations.

Should you or I or the bloke over there work for a Nazi-like organisation?

I am retired, so no. I cannot say what your options are,

 

[Arctish]

That's the one.

That one came after Hamas invaded into Israel and captured a soldier.

In hindsight, Israel should not have released >1000 terrorists (including Yahya Sinwar) in exchange for Shalit.

Yes, a criminal terrorist organization kidnapped a soldier. Israel retaliated by destroying the power plant that supplied electricity to millions of people, a blatant example of collective punishment and utterly illegal under the Geneva Conventions.

Israel doesn't even have the excuse of claiming it was responding to an attack committed by an enemy State's government. Hamas didn't battle Fatah and take over Gaza until the following year, no doubt emboldened by the widespread resentment Israel's actions generated as millions of uninvolved people were forced to scramble to keep their food from spoiling, their businesses open, their hospitals operational, and their kids in school.

The Gazans are not entirely blameless. They had opportunity to try to prevent Hamas from fully taking over and did not seem to take it.

You mean rising up en masse and participating in the civil war between Hamas and Fatah?

How many politically unaffiliated Gazans do you think had weapons and access to bullets? How were they supposed to prevent Hamas from fully taking over? You're talking about a population living on the edge of malnutrition that couldn't get their goods to markets, couldn't get to their own fishing grounds, could barely get enough electricity to keep their bare-bones economy functioning, had barely enough potable water to meet minimum daily requirements, etc.

How were the Gazans supposed to prevent Hamas from taking over?

And why would they bother when Israel was going to kick the shit out of them either way?

Israel was their biggest problem.

The biggest problem (for the Gazans) is their seemingly insatiable desire to attack Jews.

I have no idea what media outlet led you to believe that Gazans have a "seemingly insatiable desire to attack Jews", but I suspect it is a place that caters to racists and religious bigots.

What evidence have you seen that led you to believe that nonsense? Are you just going by feelings here? Do you "feel" that Gazans have an insatiable desire to attack Jews, as opposed to them having an unmet desire to be left alone by IDF soldiers who have imprisoned them and by the rightwing Zionist politicians who want to drive them out of their homeland?

I ran the numbers back in this post. You are using the results of an election in which Hamas got less than half of the votes to blame millions of people too young to have participated for their enclave being run by a terrorist organization that has all of the guns. And you're being particularly racist by casting their legitimate grievances as an insatiable desire for violence against your preferred racial/religious group.

If it were not Hamas then it would be Fatah or Islmaic Jihad or other of the assortment of anti-Jewish groups that proliferate in that area.
When Israel pulled out in 2005 both were given the opportunity to give peace a chance. They did not take it.

Who is "they"?

The people working to rebuild Gaza? Or the people who imposed an economic blockade, making that impossible?

The people who backed the Arab Peace Initiative? Or the people who rejected it?

Neither side truly wants to live in peace with the other. They are so caught up in the votex of violence that neither misses an opportunity to miss an opportunity for peace.

Israel wrecked their economy, blew up their power plant, kept them hungry, destroyed their infrastructure and their schools, and with Netanyahu leading the government was going to crush and re-colonize them no matter who was nominally in charge.

Whilst there have been no elections since 2006 and polling as we understand it does not exist the Gazans as a whole seem to accept what Hamas is doing/has done. They are reaping what Hamas has sown.
Now some Gazans are rising up against Hamas but it took outside intervention to make it possible.
It was noted by the Israeli captives that not a single Gazan helped them or showed any compassion to them.

Not entirely true.

Some hostages were psychically abused. All suffered psychologically. Some were fed and housed as well as the Gazans around them, especially the elderly and children who were released early on.

You make it sound like Hamas was being magnamonous in letting those hostages go.

Hamas was being pragmatic. So was Israel when it released hundreds of people held in administrative detention.

You made a sweeping statement about no one in Gaza showing the hostages any compassion at all. Did you think the hostages were housed with ordinary citizens? Did you think everyone in Gaza is just like everyone else, so you can take the experiences of people held captive by terrorist assholes as evidence that every man, woman, and child in Gaza is a terrorist asshole? That's absurd.

All of them were kept in buildings controlled by Hamas and guarded by Hamas members. As conditions in Gaza deteriorated, the conditions under which the remaining hostages were kept got worse and they suffered more.

The hostages did not need to be there. They did not choose their circumstances.

Obviously.

Anyway, it looks like you're using the experiences of the hostages to pass judgement on the character of Gazans in general. I've got some links to reports on the abuse Gazans kidnapped by the IDF have suffered. Shall we use those to pass judgement on Israelis in general?

If you wish to do that I cannot stop you.

Also, of those 1000 former prisoners, approx. 70% were never formally charged with a crime or had evidence against them presented in court, so declaring all of them terrorists is just you pretending to know the unknowable.

Perhaps correct.

Perhaps?

Perhaps ~700 of the released prisoners were never charged with a crime? Perhaps there is no known evidence any of them were terrorists?

Perhaps you don't know what 'administrative detention' means.

What I know is that the cycle of violence is so ingrained that there appears to be no way to stop it.

There is a way. It's the same way peace was achieved in every conflict that ended in peace. But it means no one gets everything they want, and that's a problem for racist bigots who think they can get more if they're brutal enough to take it.

 

[Emily Lake]

Employment by Hamas does not make one a terrorist. Engaging in terrorism makes one a terrorist.

In some pedantic sense, perhaps. But realistically?

Pretty sure someone employed by the Taliban would be considered a terrorist even if they never personally blew anything up.

I have a hard time believing you’d be so generous toward the employees of the KKK.

Look, I get that the entire situation is complicated and messy. I just keep being taken aback by the bottomless compassion and tolerance granted to terrorists, it’s profoundly antisocial.

 

[Emily Lake]

What I know is that the cycle of violence is so

There are ways… they just aren’t good or nice ways.