Christians - who convinced you of the truth of god/jesus?

[Politesse]

If Christ is the main focus...i.e being the Saviour of these denominations.Then madam...the work is done!
Give or take on the finer details..of course.

The "finer details"? Like whether or not his children are fucking murdering each other or not?

 

[southernhybrid]

https://www.patheos.com/blogs/crossexamined/2018/10/top-20-most-damning-bible-contradictions/

The link explains what the author considers to be "the 20 most damning contradictions in the Bible, but I'll just post one that I found guite amusing but very true.

3. All Christians are united in what they believe about Jesus (right?)​

[Jesus said,] I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, that all of them may be one. . . . I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one—I in them and you in me—so that they may be brought to complete unity. (John 17:20–23)

I appeal to you . . . that all of you agree with one another in what you say and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly united in mind and thought. (1 Corinthians 1:10)

That’s a nice thought, but has any prayer failed more spectacularly? Christianity is more than just Roman Catholics and Baptists and Methodists and maybe a few more—there are now 45,000 denominations, and Christianity is fragmenting at a rate of two new denominations per day. (h/t commenter Greg G.)

45,000 different denominations and growing. That unity thing didn't seem to work out very well, did it?

(Responding in no particular order , I'm quite busy unfortunately )

If Christ is the main focus...i.e being the Saviour of these denominations.Then madam...the work is done!
Give or take on the finer details..of course.

They can debate with each other on the trivial things like: What Jewish brand of sandals would Jesus likely wear.

That's nonsense and what about all the other contradictions. I only listed one that was extremely obvious. Based on many articles I've read, I'm not even convinced that there was an actual Jesus, but if there was, he certainly didn't have supernatural powers. If there were any gods, it would make a lot more sense that they would be females or genderless. Why do so many current religions refer to their gods as male? The Patriarchy is dangerous, especially supernatural ones. I'm sure you mean well, but you keep trying to convince us that your beliefs in the supernatural are somehow rational. Sorry, but they are not.

 

[Learner]

If Christ is the main focus...i.e being the Saviour of these denominations.Then madam...the work is done!
Give or take on the finer details..of course.

The "finer details"? Like whether or not his children are fucking murdering each other or not?

Who are his children?

Jesus said to the naughty Pharisees:

"You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him."

...but of course.. you're not talking from that contextual point of view, are you now.

 

[Learner]

^^^^^LOL -- but how was a poor li'l ole deity spose to know that his book would create so much confusion?

...and the irony to that:
I bet every Christian will not be "confused" declaring that Christ is their Lord and Saviour.

 

[Politesse]

If Christ is the main focus...i.e being the Saviour of these denominations.Then madam...the work is done!
Give or take on the finer details..of course.

The "finer details"? Like whether or not his children are fucking murdering each other or not?

Who are his children?

Jesus said to the naughty Pharisees:

"You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him."

...but of course.. you're not talking from that contextual point of view, are you now.

And that says all anyone needs to know about Christians, doesn't it? You steal a sense of unearned salvation by carving it from from the slain corpse of your own god, consume and then ignore what you ought have tried to emulate (making a parody of the very notion of a disciple), and then turn your knives against your neighbors, even those presumably on your own side. What should the rest of us do, but lock our doors?

 

[unapologetic]

I'm not fully on board with the golden rule, though. It's a nice idea sometimes, but there's a certain point where you can't be a doormat. And I don't believe in unconditional forgiveness.

"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" (Or however it's worded)
Is a social contract. If someone breaks the contract, that frees you from it too. (in regards to them)

It saddens me that atheists have chosen to reject the Bible rather than understand it

Oh, I understand it better than even you do.
The bible is a tool for indoctrination and control. In service of a CULT. And can not be trusted.

ETA: Ask me about my BBQ theory of religion.

OK, I'm asking.

What is even the definition of a soul?

Soul^TM is a made-up organ, with made-up ailments, so a cult can sell you a made-up cure.

"God won't let us destroy the world."

A real god wouldn't. One proof your god is a poser.

It is a myth and erroneous as a belief itself to think that ALL religions of faith are identical if one is said and shown to be false.

But not a single religion has been shown to be true. (except yours of course). So of course we lump them all together, with the false ones.

Where these "contradictions" left there.. because the authors of the NT ARE who they are said to be! .Therefore giving a reason for restraint for each successor of the church from altering or correcting these so-called contradictions?

Not necessarily. That only shows that the successors BELIEVED, or needed, the authors to be who they claimed. Or that it would be a sin^TM to purposely change a single word of 'holy text'. Does not prove anything.
('sin' is one of those made-up ailments I spoke of above)

 

[southernhybrid]

Here's another contraction in the Bible. I was taught that it was belief that would get me into heaven and spare me eternal torment, but the Bible isn't so clear on that, is it?

6. Faith saves (or do works save?)​

Protestant Christianity often emphasizes that faith alone (sola fide) justifies God’s forgiveness. Many verses support this.

For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—not by works, so that no one can boast (Ephesians 2:8–9).

We maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the law(Romans 3:28).

That seems clear enough until we find the opposite claim elsewhere in the Bible. The clearest example to me is the Parable of the Sheep and Goats in Matthew 25, but there’s more.

Will [God] not repay everyone according to what they have done? (Proverbs 24:12)

What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? (James 2:14).

For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father’s glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what they have done (Matthew 16:27).

The dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works (Revelation 20:12).

For something so important as getting into heaven and avoiding hell, the New Testament is surprisingly unclear.

Addendum: Or maybe it’s repentance that saves . . . or maybe baptism?​

What if it’s repentance?

Repent, then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out, that times of refreshing may come from the Lord (Acts 3:19).

Repentance for the forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem (Luke 24:47).

Or baptism? It was so essential a ritual that Jesus did it.

Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:38).

We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life (Romans 6:4).

This is from the link in my former post that I doubt Learner read. So, Christians can't even agree on how to get into heaven. I was told all my little Catholic friends were headed to hell because they didn't have the right version of Christianity. Damn! How do you think that shit makes a kid feel?

 

[robnisch]

Here's another contraction in the Bible. I was taught that it was belief that would get me into heaven and spare me eternal torment, but the Bible isn't so clear on that, is it?

6. Faith saves (or do works save?)​

Protestant Christianity often emphasizes that faith alone (sola fide) justifies God’s forgiveness. Many verses support this.

For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—not by works, so that no one can boast (Ephesians 2:8–9).

We maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the law(Romans 3:28).

That seems clear enough until we find the opposite claim elsewhere in the Bible. The clearest example to me is the Parable of the Sheep and Goats in Matthew 25, but there’s more.

Will [God] not repay everyone according to what they have done? (Proverbs 24:12)

What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? (James 2:14).

For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father’s glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what they have done (Matthew 16:27).

The dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works (Revelation 20:12).

For something so important as getting into heaven and avoiding hell, the New Testament is surprisingly unclear.

Addendum: Or maybe it’s repentance that saves . . . or maybe baptism?​

What if it’s repentance?

Repent, then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out, that times of refreshing may come from the Lord (Acts 3:19).

Repentance for the forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem (Luke 24:47).

Or baptism? It was so essential a ritual that Jesus did it.

Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:38).

We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life (Romans 6:4).

This is from the link in my former post that I doubt Learner read. So, Christians can't even agree on how to get into heaven. I was told all my little Catholic friends were headed to hell because they didn't have the right version of Christianity. Damn! How do you think that shit makes a kid feel?

According to Bart Ehrman Jesus never talked about Hell the way we were taught. It was invented; I suppose to keep you in line. The Old Testament Hell was basically just a place one through garbage.

 

[Learner]

If Christ is the main focus...i.e being the Saviour of these denominations.Then madam...the work is done!
Give or take on the finer details..of course.

The "finer details"? Like whether or not his children are fucking murdering each other or not?

Who are his children?

Jesus said to the naughty Pharisees:

"You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him."

...but of course.. you're not talking from that contextual point of view, are you now.

And that says all anyone needs to know about Christians, doesn't it?

Yes, it does...
...however, having agreeing with that. It actually says two different things between us.

I'm also gonna say: No it doesn't!
Come on now, see reason. You wouldn't really be expecting me to "concur" with your gripe with Christians now would you?

You steal a sense of unearned salvation by carving it from from the slain corpse of your own god, consume and then ignore what you ought have tried to emulate (making a parody of the very notion of a disciple),

More to the context that differs from your distorted view of the narrative.
It is an unearned GIFT that is there for anyone to accept!

That's saying: accepting freely and willingly without the dramatisation of one needing to" steal the sense of salvation" as you frame it.

Contrary to your begrudging view of Christians..the sense of remorse, shame or sorrow is a realisation, to be Christ-like which means then: it doesn't ignore what one ought to emulate.

and then turn your knives against your neighbors, even those presumably on your own side. What should the rest of us do, but lock our doors?

Lock your doors and work yourself up increasing the manifestation of your paranoia? Snap out of it!

It's not happening! With billions of Christians on the planet?

Christians wouldn't be allowed on the forum if it were true, and you wouldn't be responding to my posts.

So..since this forum has standards, has it not occured to you by now?
Sheesh kebab

( my sense of remorse...arrogance. I'm still working on it)

 

[steve_bank]

Lions 32, Christians 0.

 

[robnisch]

Once someone has adopted "magical Thinking" it becomes hard to have a discussion with them.

 

[Learner]

This may be quite surprising to many. The bible rebukes magic and magicians, sorcerers and conjurors..

...and so...what should be an obvious . I am always open to engage in discussions.

If I get posts that expects my response. I'll respond back (when I can)
.

 

[Learner]

Here's another contraction in the Bible. I was taught that it was belief that would get me into heaven and spare me eternal torment, but the Bible isn't so clear on that, is it?

6. Faith saves (or do works save?)​

Protestant Christianity often emphasizes that faith alone (sola fide) justifies God’s forgiveness. Many verses support this.

For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—not by works, so that no one can boast (Ephesians 2:8–9).

We maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the law(Romans 3:28).

That seems clear enough until we find the opposite claim elsewhere in the Bible. The clearest example to me is the Parable of the Sheep and Goats in Matthew 25, but there’s more.

Will [God] not repay everyone according to what they have done? (Proverbs 24:12)

What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? (James 2:14).

For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father’s glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what they have done (Matthew 16:27).

The dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works (Revelation 20:12).

For something so important as getting into heaven and avoiding hell, the New Testament is surprisingly unclear.

Addendum: Or maybe it’s repentance that saves . . . or maybe baptism?​

What if it’s repentance?

Repent, then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out, that times of refreshing may come from the Lord (Acts 3:19).

Repentance for the forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem (Luke 24:47).

Or baptism? It was so essential a ritual that Jesus did it.

Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:38).

We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life (Romans 6:4).

This is from the link in my former post that I doubt Learner read. So, Christians can't even agree on how to get into heaven.

All of them believe it's through Christ, with or without works.

Having said that...I think we can differentiate between them, down to context -
there are works to do good, without the thought of seeking reward ..i.e. by the intention of the heart. The highest of these that Jesus said for example: is when one sacrifices his or her life for the sake of saving another, without giving a second thought.


And there are the 'works' to "doing good" with the intention at heart to be rewarded or admired , be it though beneficial to the recipient of the "good works". Like the verse about doing good works and boasting a out it.

Hope that helps.

I was told all my little Catholic friends were headed to hell because they didn't have the right version of Christianity. Damn! How do you think that shit makes a kid feel?

I never had that. Who was it that told you that your Catholic friends would go to hell? Was it someone at the local church?.

 

[Politesse]

This may be quite surprising to many. The bible rebukes magic and magicians, sorcerers and conjurors..

...

Who on planet earth doesn't know that Christians murder other faith's witches?



Almost every American youth reads The Crucible in school. Almost every European city has ghost tours for the tourists bragging about your old "hunts". In central Africa, being accused of witchcraft can still be a death sentence, should it reach the ears of Christian or Muslim authorities. Fear not, your reputation is quite well known globally.

 

[steve_bank]

Faith healing is magic, to me.

The bible says don't eat pork. Do you like pork chops?

 

[Learner]

This may be quite surprising to many. The bible rebukes magic and magicians, sorcerers and conjurors..

...

Who on planet earth doesn't know that Christians murder witches?

View attachment 54839

Almost every American youth reads The Crucible in school. Almost every European city has ghost tours for the tourists bragging about your old "hunts". In central Africa, being accused of witchcraft can still be a death sentence, should it reach the ears of Christian or Muslim authorities. Fear not, your reputation is quite well known globally.

Never done it..and I certainly don't intend to. Being a tad pendandic...that "reputation" belongs to someone else.

I am sure when you think about it..the numbers should tell you that it's not a common thing among an estimated 2.54 billion Christians that exist on the planet. The implied 'reputation" it seems.. is so misplaced on them. Don't work yourself up. I'm not out to get you.

 

[Politesse]

It is an unearned GIFT that is there for anyone to accept!

A "gift" that you pay for with eternal fealty to an autocrat whose will cannot be challenged, or even questioned.

That's saying: accepting freely and willingly without the dramatisation of one needing to" steal the sense of salvation" as you frame it.

And yet, not only did you murder and eat your god to save your own souls, you re-enact the foul act as a pageant every year. Sometimes you have children play both the murderers and the executed. Charming. But it doesn't really suggest remorse, does it? Even if it did, personal moral accountability, despite being so important in the living Christ's actual teachings, seems to play no role in modern soteriology. Why do you suppose that is?

 

[Politesse]

Never done it..and I certainly don't intend to. Being a tad pendandic...that "reputation" belongs to someone else.

How convenient for you. But you give 10 cents of every dollar you earn to the church, correct? If your pastor doesn't scarf up all your offerings, I bet at least some of it goes to the mission field abroad. Are you sure that none of your dollars ever bought a knife, or is that just hope on your part?

I do not see Christianity as irredeemable. It was my childhood tradition, and I'd happily return to it if doing so were a morally defensible act. I miss the music. The food was great. Even the philosophy has had occasional highs amid the horrific lows. I've obviously got no problem with Jesus the man. But this church? It has gone down a cruel and wicked road ever since it first tasted political power, and these days you hunt fags like myself as cruelly and relentlessly as you once hunted witches. So that is not an open door. If that fact offends your conscience, ask why your brethren do such things, not what's wrong with me for seeing the obvious truths you try to ignore, or explain away with shallow quips. You say you're here to discuss. So discuss. Why do Christians murder those who they fail to seduce? Why are they intent on legislating the morality of those who never accepted these "freely chosen burdens" of yours? Why do Christians routinely vote for egotists and autocrats in every nation where they form a consistent political bloc? Why do they praise the God who once reprimanded his people for being unkind to the alien in their land because he had once brought them out of Egypt, while screaming hatred and violence at Egyptian refugees, locking their children in cages and torturing their parents?

 

[bilby]

This may be quite surprising to many. The bible rebukes magic and magicians, sorcerers and conjurors..

I don't think that will be even slightly surprising to anybody here; I would expect this audience to all be fully aware of that.

Of course, Jesus and the prophets and saints get a free pass, and their miracles are declared as different for no good reason.

"Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live" is the biblical DMCA - the objection is not to the act, but to the actor's being unauthorised.

Turning water into wine is unabashedly a conjouring trick.

The claim is not "magic isn't real", but rather "only our magic is allowed". But the fact is, magic isn't real, and neither The authorised nor the unauthorised claims of its existence are true.

 

[Elixir]

Turning water into wine is unabashedly a conjouring trick.

Yabut one liquid to annother is amateur stuff - David Blaine can do that in his sleep.
OTOH, changing partially fermented, baked grain product into an oceanic protein feast, instantly and on a massive scale, well, that’s some real majicke!