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How should west respond to Russian invasion of Ukraine?

 
 
 
barbos said:
What are you smoking? Seriously what shit are you smoking?
Ukraine literally can't export anything, period.
Russia is going to harvest just fine. There is no problem with diesel.
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Okay, pay attention. You've parroted the assigned lines, "all is good in Russia", and did a very fine job.

Ukraine will harvest the grain and make bread. Russia grain will rot in the fields and you will have no bread. The problem is no diesel.
 
Bronzeage said:
Okay, pay attention. You've parroted the assigned lines, "all is good in Russia", and did a very fine job.
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No, you pay attention. There is no problem with diesel in Russia. it is more expensive than normal (thanks to Trump war on Iran) which means there will be some inflation but farmers will harvest everything. Thanks to our "dictatorship"
Bronzeage said:
Ukraine will harvest the grain and make bread.
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but they won't be able to export it.
Bronzeage said:
Russia grain will rot in the fields and you will have no bread.
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Nope, everything will be fine.
Bronzeage said:
The problem is no diesel.
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Nope, problem, according to farmers is price.
Putin will order banks to loan farmers money at zero percent and that would be it.
 
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One more time, Ukraine had 90% of their agricultural export through Odessa
and 70% non-agricultural export.
In other words, their export is basically fell 90% and not for one month but indefinitely.
There is simply no way to replace that maritime export by rail, especially considering that Russia have been systematically destroying locomotives for months now.
 
Agriculture is highly controlled part of the economy in any country.
US has even higher level of control than Russia. It is simply impossible for farmers to decide that they are going to skip harvesting this year because diesel prices. The government will make sure that they do what they are supposed to do.
 
I am looking at gasoline/diesel prices online and it basically shows suspiciously normal (not particularly high) prices.
I know for a fact that couple of weeks ago it was 2x of that, all that war on refineris may have caused a week long blip amplified by panic which some motorist have not even noticed.
I will look tomorrow on actual price if I have time.
Once again, Odessa Port is no more, indefinitely.
 
barbos said:
No, you pay attention. There is no problem with diesel in Russia. it is more expensive than normal (thanks to Trump war on Iran) which means there will be some inflation but farmers will harvest everything. Thanks to our "dictatorship"

but they won't be able to export it.

Nope, everything will be fine.

Nope, problem, according to farmers is price.
Putin will order banks to loan farmers money at zero percent and that would be it.
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I can see that economics and agriculture are not subjects taught in Russian schools. Putin is the guy who said the Special Military Operation would take three weeks, so I would not take his pledge to give money to farmers too seriously. I know you have to say it, but you don't believe any more than Russian Farmers.

A more likely scenario is Putin will chew Rubles and piss diesel.
 
Bronzeage said:
Putin is the guy who said the Special Military Operation would take three weeks
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Iirc it started with 3 days, and changed to 3 weeks after most of Pootey’s tanks got stuck in mud, then destroyed (in three days or so).
 
barbos said:
Agriculture is highly controlled part of the economy in any country.
US has even higher level of control than Russia. It is simply impossible for farmers to decide that they are going to skip harvesting this year because diesel prices. The government will make sure that they do what they are supposed to do.
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Where do you get that idea? Free market capitalist economics. What gets produced and how much is produced and price is determined by consuer demand and producer supply, the law of supply and emend. Of course it is never preferably true, but that is it.

Over here agriculture is privately owned and in free market competition.

The government does not set quotas or say what gets produced and how much.

State and federal government does control irrigation water like the Colombia Basin and the Colorado River.

The federal government when warranted does take steps to stabilize commodity prices.

the U.S. federal government buys surplus agricultural commodities like milk and wheat to help stabilize farm markets and support producers. Through the U.S. Department of Agriculture, the government uses specific legislative authorities—such as Section 32 of the Agriculture Act of 1935—to purchase millions of dollars in domestic food products when supplies are high and prices drop.
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The United States federal government does not maintain a commercial or emergency domestic stockpile of surplus wheat. Instead of holding physical grain reserves, the government utilizes the Bill Emerson Humanitarian Trust—a reserve of cash and commodities managed by the USDA strictly for international humanitarian food aid. [1, 2, 3]
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You keep trying to equate Russia and the USA. There is no comparison.
 
Russia will harvest whet with stolen Ukraine farm equipment.
 
Just ran across this. A typical Russian family apartment. Frankly, it looks like a fire hazard.

 
comparison of drone offensive by Russia and Ukraine.
rabidly pro-ukrainian publication counted 1 (one) out of 1400 attempts successful drone hit on proper Moscow. 1/1400 success rate. The rest were shot down at different distances from the target. Most in the country side. Compare that to russian ballisstic missiles success rate in Kiev of 100%
They also calculated cost it it roughly the same ~$70mil. Except each russian ballisttic missiles cary 500kg of explosives and that single shit plane was carrying 50kg.
Nazi clowns spent $70mil to have one (!!!) 50kg charge explode in Mosocow.
Of course it is Moscow and other places are not that good.

Regarding refineries, ukro drones were able to knock down only 10% (not 40% as reported by western scum media) And it was temporary.

 
Bronzeage said:
I can see that economics and agriculture are not subjects taught in Russian schools. Putin is the guy who said the Special Military Operation would take three weeks,
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He said no such thing.
Bronzeage said:
so I would not take his pledge to give money to farmers too seriously. I know you have to say it, but you don't believe any more than Russian Farmers.

A more likely scenario is Putin will chew Rubles and piss diesel.
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Ok, I am walking to gas station and when I return you will be chewing your stupid dollars.
 
Russia has reached total air space control over Ukrane. I suspect it's temporary I would not fly Su-34 over Kiev just yet but fact is a fact. Ukraine has no air defense. They might still have some F-16s operational but they are not really a match for Su-35.
 
barbos said:
Nope, not in agriculture.
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You said you went to school and lived here, and have a PHD in physics. What school was yur PHD?

I would think you would have some capacity to think logically and understand western free market economics.

Our federal government provides a safety net to protect growers in down yardarms.

The U.S. federal government does not generally set domestic production or planting quotas for American farmers. Instead, American agricultural policy relies on price supports, crop insurance, and risk-management programs through the U.S. Department of Agriculture rather than compulsory output limits. However, the federal government does implement import restrictions and tariff-rate quotas on specific sensitive commodities—such as dairy and sugar—to protect domestic markets.
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Russian agriculture is the opposite of American free market economics. There are positives and negatives to it. When you really see it the free market system is something. It runs itself on a daily basis with little diirect government control.

Russia controls its agricultural sector through a state-directed combination of massive megacorporations (agroholdings), heavy financial subsidies, aggressive protectionism, and strict geopolitical export limits. While the country transitioned from the Soviet Union's absolute state ownership to a market-based economy, the Russian government maintains deep, indirect control by favoring massive loyal conglomerates over independent family farms.
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en.wikipedia.org

Agriculture in Russia - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

Agriculture in Russia is an important part of the economy of the Russian Federation. The agricultural sector survived a severe transition decline in the early 1990s as it struggled to transform from a planned economy to a market-oriented system.[1] Following the breakup of the Soviet Union in 1991, large collective and state farms – the backbone of Soviet agriculture – had to contend with the sudden loss of state-guaranteed marketing and supply channels and a changing legal environment that created pressure for reorganization and restructuring. In less than ten years, livestock inventories declined by half, pulling down demand for feed grains, and the area planted to grains dropped by 25%.
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This came to mind.

In modern Russian agriculture, the main issue regarding mineral fertilizers is actually under-application and soil nutrient depletion rather than widespread chemical oversaturation. Since the end of the Soviet era, high costs and supply shifts have kept fertilizer use low in many regions, causing gradual soil nutrient loss, though intensive localized use of chemicals and pesticides still presents regional contamination risks.
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Putin wanted Ukraine to be part of the Russian Federation economy. Ukraine chose to go with European economics and kicked out the Russian puppet.
 
barbos said:
Russia has reached total air space control over Ukrane. I suspect it's temporary I would not fly Su-34 over Kiev just yet but fact is a fact. Ukraine has no air defense. They might still have some F-16s operational but they are not really a match for Su-35.
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Delusions of grandeur.
 
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