A sad casualty of DEI/Woke at Cambridge University

[Bomb#20]

Are you guys talking about the Harvard admission process? Where they have systematically been cheating for years to boost black numbers?

I'm not familiar with medical school admissions processes, at least not nearly as much as a lot of the people in here apparently are (that aren't employed by colleges). I see the stats, Asians have the best average grades. Asians also have the highest acceptance rate. #controversy!!!!

At Harvard, for the Class of 2029, 4% of applicants were accepted. Asians account for 41% of accepted students for the Class of 2029. Clearly, Asians are being discriminated against by Harvard.

There was a discrimination court case about that. If Harvards application would be colour blind, and only based on merit 50% should be Asian. These was their own numbers. 0% students would be black.

Assuming ACT and GPA numbers are broadly in line with SAT scores, and assuming all these "figures of merit" follow normal distributions, their admissions would be around 1.5% black. So if Harvard claimed it would be 0% this raises the suspicion that they exaggerated the consequences of ending racial preferences in the hope that it would influence the ruling.

 

[DrZoidberg]

Are you guys talking about the Harvard admission process? Where they have systematically been cheating for years to boost black numbers?

I'm not familiar with medical school admissions processes, at least not nearly as much as a lot of the people in here apparently are (that aren't employed by colleges). I see the stats, Asians have the best average grades. Asians also have the highest acceptance rate. #controversy!!!!

At Harvard, for the Class of 2029, 4% of applicants were accepted. Asians account for 41% of accepted students for the Class of 2029. Clearly, Asians are being discriminated against by Harvard.

There was a discrimination court case about that. If Harvards application would be colour blind, and only based on merit 50% should be Asian. These was their own numbers. 0% students would be black.

Assuming ACT and GPA numbers are broadly in line with SAT scores, and assuming all these "figures of merit" follow normal distributions, their admissions would be around 1.5% black. So if Harvard claimed it would be 0% this raises the suspicion that they exaggerated the consequences of ending racial preferences in the hope that it would influence the ruling.

I heard a fun theory that the explanation is cultural. Indians don't really care about sports. Except cricket. But Indian parents don't encourage their kids to be athletes. They encourage their kids to excel academically.

And that can, allegedly, explain the discrepancy

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

And I'm certainly not going to sit here and pretend that anyone campaigning against "DEI hires" is ever either:

1. Not racist

or

2. Not associated with the regime of Donald John Trump, and his allies on the "Right" and the "Left", who have allowed him to legally seize power of an increasingly illegitimate state.

Because I refuse to pretend to be a fucking moron in the name of "politeness". These parasitic thieves and assholes infesting the White House have betrayed the Constitution, their country, their neighbors, and their God, and they should all be in jail.

The problem here is that there are clear DEI hires that shouldn't have happened.

The Felon et al are using this as an excuse to throw the baby out with the bathwater, but that doesn't make the problem nonexistent.

I suppose that is why you need to reference vaguely to "DEI hires that shouldn't have happened" instead of bringing up actual examples of DEI fires that shouldn't have happened. We musn't let this molehill be viewed as anything but a mountain.

 

[laughing dog]

And I'm certainly not going to sit here and pretend that anyone campaigning against "DEI hires" is ever either:

1. Not racist

or

2. Not associated with the regime of Donald John Trump, and his allies on the "Right" and the "Left", who have allowed him to legally seize power of an increasingly illegitimate state.

Because I refuse to pretend to be a fucking moron in the name of "politeness". These parasitic thieves and assholes infesting the White House have betrayed the Constitution, their country, their neighbors, and their God, and they should all be in jail.

The problem here is that there are clear DEI hires that shouldn't have happened.

The Felon et al are using this as an excuse to throw the baby out with the bathwater, but that doesn't make the problem nonexistent.

I suppose that is why you need to reference vaguely to "DEI hires that shouldn't have happened" instead of bringing up actual examples of DEI fires that shouldn't have happened. We musn't let this molehill be viewed as anything but a mountain.

Can we view it as a dunghill?

 

[Elixir]

The problem here is that there are clear DEI hires that shouldn't have happened.

I suppose that is why you need to reference vaguely to "DEI hires that shouldn't have happened" instead of bringing up actual examples of DEI fires that shouldn't have happened.

Hear here!
A blanket statement like that, sans examples, is naked racism, plain and simple. Failure to direct it specifically is a copout, but that doesn’t make it something other than racist.

Cough it up Loren - what examples can you offer of “clear DEI hires that shouldn’t have happened”?
I’ll start you off;
DONALD TRUMP

 

[thebeave]

Are you guys talking about the Harvard admission process? Where they have systematically been cheating for years to boost black numbers?

I'm not familiar with medical school admissions processes, at least not nearly as much as a lot of the people in here apparently are (that aren't employed by colleges). I see the stats, Asians have the best average grades. Asians also have the highest acceptance rate. #controversy!!!!

At Harvard, for the Class of 2029, 4% of applicants were accepted. Asians account for 41% of accepted students for the Class of 2029. Clearly, Asians are being discriminated against by Harvard.

There was a discrimination court case about that. If Harvards application would be colour blind, and only based on merit 50% should be Asian. These was their own numbers. 0% students would be black.

Assuming ACT and GPA numbers are broadly in line with SAT scores, and assuming all these "figures of merit" follow normal distributions, their admissions would be around 1.5% black. So if Harvard claimed it would be 0% this raises the suspicion that they exaggerated the consequences of ending racial preferences in the hope that it would influence the ruling.

I heard a fun theory that the explanation is cultural. Indians don't really care about sports. Except cricket. But Indian parents don't encourage their kids to be athletes. They encourage their kids to excel academically.

And that can, allegedly, explain the discrepancy

Ya think?

Look at the names of the winners in, say, the last 20 years. Note the Indians' share of the US population is under 2%.

List of Scripps National Spelling Bee champions

I have befriended and worked with many Indian families over the years. The emphasis on academics with the kids is very high, but I have noticed they are also generally very involved in athletics as well. Mostly, traditional american sports (basketball, volleyball, etc). Cricket, not so much. Probably because the kids were born and raised here, and cricket is not really a big thing in my area, or even the US.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

If ‘merit’ were only comprised of GPA plus SAT/ACT scores, you’d perhaps have a point.

School admissions, be they for elite or just any university, medical school, law school, grad school, or other professional school, are not a race, with the top composite scores being allotted admissions.

How is it not a race??

You are right that it's not just test scores. The problem is how biased the other metrics are.

Tests themselves have racial and class biases.

I’ve had friends who are very intelligent—brilliant, even but whom would make poor physicians at least if they were dealing with patients instead of doing pure research. I’ve mentioned one who finally gave up rebelling against her parents and became a mathematics professor. She’s very good at it. As a physician she would have struggled to engage properly with patients. She was interested in math and physics and bored by biology.

You are not showing racial or class bias.

Just because some people are more suited to it than others doesn't make it any form of discrimination.

 

[Toni]

If ‘merit’ were only comprised of GPA plus SAT/ACT scores, you’d perhaps have a point.

School admissions, be they for elite or just any university, medical school, law school, grad school, or other professional school, are not a race, with the top composite scores being allotted admissions.

How is it not a race??

You are right that it's not just test scores. The problem is how biased the other metrics are.

Tests themselves have racial and class biases.

I’ve had friends who are very intelligent—brilliant, even but whom would make poor physicians at least if they were dealing with patients instead of doing pure research. I’ve mentioned one who finally gave up rebelling against her parents and became a mathematics professor. She’s very good at it. As a physician she would have struggled to engage properly with patients. She was interested in math and physics and bored by biology.

You are not showing racial or class bias.

Just because some people are more suited to it than others doesn't make it any form of discrimination.

I merely pointed out the well documented bias in standardized tests in response to your allegation of racism.

Thank you fir making my point: one can be brilliant and a stellar test taker and be totally unsuited to the practice of medicine.

Which helps explain why some applicants with perfect GPAs and SAT scores andMCAT scores still are not admitted to med school: they aren’t suited.

I’ve known people who were heavily pushed into particular fields, including medicine but also engineering despite this not being what they wanted for themselves, despite having the academic talent and accomplishments.

Metrics which are supposedly unbiased are usually not.

Metrics fail to tell a complete story if a student’s ability or interest.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I merely pointed out the well documented bias in standardized tests in response to your allegation of racism.

You assume all differences are racism.

Dig into "racism" and you find socioeconomic and cultural effects.

Thank you fir making my point: one can be brilliant and a stellar test taker and be totally unsuited to the practice of medicine.

Well, duh, the test can't measure how you fare at dealing with people.

Which helps explain why some applicants with perfect GPAs and SAT scores andMCAT scores still are not admitted to med school: they aren’t suited.

But we have no evidence that the medical schools are making the right decision.

Metrics fail to tell a complete story if a student’s ability or interest.

The question isn't whether the tests tell the whole story. The question is whether they are judging honestly on the other part.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

A smoking gun about why some of us consider this DEI:

https://voices.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/VOICESpost2600045

Yes, this is an opinion column, not a research piece. But:

I want to be clear that I don’t care whether or not any of these allegations against Prof. Arday were true. None of them were worth his career. And certainly not his life.

The evidence doesn't matter, the important thing was that he was black and faced accusations.

So long as there is stuff like this there will be accusations of DEI.

(And, yeah, it wasn't worth his life--but that was his choice.)

 

[Toni]

I merely pointed out the well documented bias in standardized tests in response to your allegation of racism.

You assume all differences are racism.

Dig into "racism" and you find socioeconomic and cultural effects.

Thank you fir making my point: one can be brilliant and a stellar test taker and be totally unsuited to the practice of medicine.

Well, duh, the test can't measure how you fare at dealing with people.

Which helps explain why some applicants with perfect GPAs and SAT scores andMCAT scores still are not admitted to med school: they aren’t suited.

But we have no evidence that the medical schools are making the right decision.

Metrics fail to tell a complete story if a student’s ability or interest.

The question isn't whether the tests tell the whole story. The question is whether they are judging honestly on the other part.

Dig into racism and you will find that socioeconomic forces enforce societal strata by race and firm expectations and perceptions of individuals according to ‘family background’ including and especially race and family income which gave historically been entertained and enforced through racist policies at every level from local to national.

 

[laughing dog]

A smoking gun about why some of us consider this DEI:

https://voices.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/VOICESpost2600045

Yes, this is an opinion column, not a research piece. But:

I want to be clear that I don’t care whether or not any of these allegations against Prof. Arday were true. None of them were worth his career. And certainly not his life.

The evidence doesn't matter, the important thing was that he was black and faced accusations.

So long as there is stuff like this there will be accusations of DEI.

(And, yeah, it wasn't worth his life--but that was his choice.)

Interesting that you did not include the text that preceding your quote of

Jason Arday had the distinction of being the youngest Black professor in the University of Cambridge’s history. His publications specifically focused on race and racism in the British educational system, and he didn’t shy away from using his own life in his examples. After the deliberate targeting of his veracity as an academic by another former Cambridge professor, dismissed due to his racism and white supremacist views, Prof. Arday came under intense scrutiny with regard to his Ph.D. thesis and the stories in his memoir. Besides making the point that his Ph.D. advisor and the university cleared him of any deliberate plagiarism allegations, I want to be clear that I don’t care whether or not any of these allegations against Prof. Arday were true

How exactly is your link "a smoking gun for DEI?"

I ask, because the author is not affliated with Cambridge University, so how does her opinion reflect any possible DEI hiring demeanor?

 

[ZiprHead]

Are you guys talking about the Harvard admission process? Where they have systematically been cheating for years to boost black numbers?

I'm not familiar with medical school admissions processes, at least not nearly as much as a lot of the people in here apparently are (that aren't employed by colleges). I see the stats, Asians have the best average grades. Asians also have the highest acceptance rate. #controversy!!!!

At Harvard, for the Class of 2029, 4% of applicants were accepted. Asians account for 41% of accepted students for the Class of 2029. Clearly, Asians are being discriminated against by Harvard.

There was a discrimination court case about that. If Harvards application would be colour blind, and only based on merit 50% should be Asian. These was their own numbers. 0% students would be black.

Assuming ACT and GPA numbers are broadly in line with SAT scores, and assuming all these "figures of merit" follow normal distributions, their admissions would be around 1.5% black. So if Harvard claimed it would be 0% this raises the suspicion that they exaggerated the consequences of ending racial preferences in the hope that it would influence the ruling.

I heard a fun theory that the explanation is cultural. Indians don't really care about sports. Except cricket. But Indian parents don't encourage their kids to be athletes. They encourage their kids to excel academically.

And that can, allegedly, explain the discrepancy

Ya think?

Look at the names of the winners in, say, the last 20 years. Note the Indians' share of the US population is under 2%.

List of Scripps National Spelling Bee champions

I have befriended and worked with many Indian families over the years. The emphasis on academics with the kids is very high, but I have noticed they are also generally very involved in athletics as well. Mostly, traditional american sports (basketball, volleyball, etc). Cricket, not so much. Probably because the kids were born and raised here, and cricket is not really a big thing in my area, or even the US.

The Indian people I know are big into golfing.

 

[Politesse]

Dig into "racism" and you find socioeconomic and cultural effects.

Literally everyone but you understands that sustained, intergenerational racism has socioeconomic and cultural effects. And I'm just being kind pretending that it is unintentional on your part, I think it is actually highly implausible that you write as well as you do yet are as stupid about race issues as you want us to believe you are.

 

[Bomb#20]

... So if Harvard claimed it would be 0% this raises the suspicion that they exaggerated the consequences of ending racial preferences in the hope that it would influence the ruling.

I heard a fun theory that the explanation is cultural. Indians don't really care about sports. Except cricket. But Indian parents don't encourage their kids to be athletes. They encourage their kids to excel academically.

And that can, allegedly, explain the discrepancy

Ya think?

Look at the names of the winners in, say, the last 20 years. Note the Indians' share of the US population is under 2%.

List of Scripps National Spelling Bee champions

Impressive! And it looks like the raw statistics understate the degree of dominance. Indian-Americans were winners twelve years in a row. To find the last time students from the same ethnic background won twelve times in a row (guessing ethnicity from names) you have to go back sixty years. Here are the words Anglo kids knew how to spell in order to win from 1963 to 1974:

equipage
sycophant
eczema
ratoon
chihuahua
abalone
interlocutory
croissant
shalloon
macerate
vouchsafe
hydrophyte

And here are the words Indian-American kids knew how to spell in order to win from 2008 to 2019:

guerdon
Laodicean
stromuhr
cymotrichous
guetapens
knaidel
stichomythia
feuilleton
scherenschnitte
nunatak
Feldenkrais
gesellschaft
marocain
koinonia
auslaut
bougainvillea
aiguillette
pendeloque
palama
cernuous
odylic

(There are more than twelve words because ties have become much more common in recent years, due to the questioners running out of words before the winners run out of opponents.)

 

[Politesse]

scherenschnitte

Among my favorite "words that sound vaguely profane but aren't"

 

[Derec]

 

[thebeave]

I didn't recognize him without his makeup and dress.

 

[DrZoidberg]

I think this is the best and most level headed summary of this case so far.

 

[Emily Lake]

Tests themselves have racial and class biases.

Sure. And math is totally white supremacist.

There needs to be some means of demonstrating to a high degree that such racial and class biases actually exist.