Are We Heading towards Theocracy?

[Elixir]

I think you have accurately identified some specific factors pressuring our representative government structure. But eventual outcomes are not ensured - and may well be changed merely by making such observations.
Religious violence is and will remain a fact. Whether the USA becomes a hotbed, depends on who and what you compare it to. I’m pretty sure it will get worse here before it gets better. But will it be Rwanda? I kinda doubt it. And eventually longer term financial interests will prevail over the current crop of rapacious oligarchs.

I did not realise the Rwandan genocide was religiously based. I thought it was ethnic.

The main driver is ethnic; religions are just actors.

 

[Elixir]

So what? He'll be out on his ass in 2029 and the government will go back to normal.

I love it when you talk dirty!
Seriously, it’s hard to see him leaving office alive.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Is WCN really a big movement with momentum or is it a fringe movement with a few loudmouths making a lot of noise? Seeing some stats would help to put this into perspective.

It's a fringe movement with a few loudmouths making a lot of noise.

That describes Trump in 2020, so it isn’t very reassuring.

One doesn’t have to be a devout Christian to swallow their snake oil. I can easily imagine my non religious MAGA brother buying into it.

Yeah... that's what I thought about the Trump thing back in the spring of 2016. Was pretty darn certain that whole thing was going to be wiped from the face of the planet.

Goodness, how awfully wrong that thought was!

So what?

So what? Trump shouldn't have won the nomination, let alone the Federal election in 2016. Trump never won 50% in many of the primaries. He took the nomination with pluralities, not majorities. Then, after committing the worst electoral action since the South tried to secede after the results of the 1860 election, Trump would manage to win again, outright in 2024.

And now, despite most of his actions being in contrast to actual conservatism (outside the dismantling of the Administrative State) and having approval ratings that just keep dropping, the GOP is complicit with every action Trump has taken with their silence.

So, this whole idea of, they are just a minority of the party theory of why the WCN shouldn't be a concern seems unbacked by recent history.

He'll be out on his ass in 2029 and the government will go back to normal. Besides which, Trump isn't one of them -- they're just another of the many little constituencies Trump used and discarded on his way to power. He doesn't give a rat's ass about their goals, or their ideology, or them. If he isn't an atheist he's about the most watered-down Christian on the planet. These guys are antisemites; Trump likes the Jews; Bibi's his best buddy. The only way Trump would impose a theocracy is if we went all Roman Empire and made him the god.

Yeah, Trump isn't a Christian. He is way too deep a narcissist to recognize a power greater than himself. But that really doesn't matter. Well over the majority of conservatives say the 2020 election was stolen. Normal might not exist anymore. We have no idea what the GOP looks like after Trump, assuming there is an after Trump. He already tried to seize power once.

 

[GenesisNemesis]

"Trump isn't a Christian" so what? That doesn't mean the extremists who are working for him aren't dangerous and don't influence him.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Is WCN really a big movement with momentum or is it a fringe movement with a few loudmouths making a lot of noise? Seeing some stats would help to put this into perspective.

It's a fringe movement with a few loudmouths making a lot of noise.

That describes Trump in 2020, so it isn’t very reassuring.

One doesn’t have to be a devout Christian to swallow their snake oil. I can easily imagine my non religious MAGA brother buying into it.

Yeah... that's what I thought about the Trump thing back in the spring of 2016. Was pretty darn certain that whole thing was going to be wiped from the face of the planet.

Goodness, how awfully wrong that thought was!

So what?

So what? Trump shouldn't have won the nomination, let alone the Federal election in 2016. Trump never won 50% in many of the primaries. He took the nomination with pluralities, not majorities. Then, after committing the worst electoral action since the South tried to secede after the results of the 1860 election, Trump would manage to win again, outright in 2024.

I wanted to revisit a statement here. The electoral malfeasance in 1876 was the most recent post election nonsense, not the 1860 secession.

 

[SLD]

Is WCN really a big movement with momentum or is it a fringe movement with a few loudmouths making a lot of noise? Seeing some stats would help to put this into perspective.

It's a fringe movement with a few loudmouths making a lot of noise.

That describes Trump in 2020, so it isn’t very reassuring.

One doesn’t have to be a devout Christian to swallow their snake oil. I can easily imagine my non religious MAGA brother buying into it.

Yeah... that's what I thought about the Trump thing back in the spring of 2016. Was pretty darn certain that whole thing was going to be wiped from the face of the planet.

Goodness, how awfully wrong that thought was!

So what? He'll be out on his ass in 2029 and the government will go back to normal. Besides which, Trump isn't one of them -- they're just another of the many little constituencies Trump used and discarded on his way to power. He doesn't give a rat's ass about their goals, or their ideology, or them. If he isn't an atheist he's about the most watered-down Christian on the planet. These guys are antisemites; Trump likes the Jews; Bibi's his best buddy. The only way Trump would impose a theocracy is if we went all Roman Empire and made him the god.

What makes you think he'll be gone in 2029, as long as he's alive? I don't understand this mentality of everything will go back to normal. We just have to wait him out. I don't think these people will release their grip on power. Trump may go away, or maybe die. But do you really think that these people give a shit about the constitutional norms we've had for 240 years?

I am really wondering if we will survive after November 3rd. I really see Trump saying block the new Congress, and ordering the military to make it so. He will have the support of his cabinet and the VP for sure.

The only question is whether the democrats will be pansies and say something stupid like, take him to court. At that point, fuck the courts.

 

[laughing dog]

"Trump isn't a Christian" so what? That doesn't mean the extremists who are working for him aren't dangerous and don't influence him.

That is the key. This isn't about Trump but the attraction of the values of white Christian nationalists to MAGAs, populists, white supremacists, and others.

 

[southernhybrid]

Even a high percentage of Republicans hate Trump now, so I'm sure he will be gone dead or alive in 2029. But, the WCN movement is powerful and does want to establish a Christian theocracy. I'm sure I already posted about the book called "The Gospel According to Hobby Lobby". They are putting billions of dollars toward the WCN movement. I've said it before and I'll say it again, join the organizations that are doing everything possible to fight this, like the ACLU, the AU for SCS, the AHS, Free Inquiry and probably a few more that I don't know about. These organizations have actually stopped the passage of some bills, at least in some states, that are a threat to the SCS and the more the rest of us support them the better. Even if you can only spare a few dollars, do it! Even the Christians I know personally are in favor of the SCS, so as the saying goes, Don't give up the fight! Negativity doesn't help, so don't roll over and live in defeat. "We must fight the powers that be". ( is this the 60s again? fuck )

One more happy thought. Some of the worst members of SCOTUS are pretty old so maybe they will be gone shortly after 2029 and if we all vote, we can defeat any crap Republicon artist who runs for president. Hopefully, someone who is a left of center moderate and reasonable will win the D primary.

I'm more concerned about climate change and the lack of regulation of AI. Those are a lot more of a threat compared to the WCN, imo.

 

[SLD]

Here’s a Federal Judge’s playbook on how Trump and the Republican Party will try to stay in power in 2027:

The Final Battle for America’s Democracy

Forget November 3. It’s January 3 when Donald Trump and his MAGA Republicans might bury our democracy once and for all. Here’s how.

newrepublic.com

They will refuse to sit the democratic Congressmen, claiming electoral fraud. They will challenge any and all court orders claiming that only Congress (the previously elected one) must decide the elections and seating of its members.

All they need is the clerk’s connivance.

The problem is that democrats are really too much of a pansies to really do what is necessary. They should be prepared to call for a nationwide strike of some kind. There are enough supporters of democracy in the government and elsewhere to shut down DC. Call for subway workers to strike in dc. Call for gridlock on the nation’s streets. It would happen. Call for massive protests across the country. Shut down state governments as well.

I don’t know if the Democrats have the balls to threaten this. But it is fundamentally necessary. The incoming democratic leadership should say, “If you don’t play by the rules, then we won’t either. You challenge the election results and we call for a nationwide strike and a march on Washington that will make Jan 6 look like a picnic. We will call for Wall Street to be shut down. We will cause markets to fail. We will call on our military rank and file to refuse to obey orders. We will call on on our bureaucrats to refuse to obey orders. And you know many will obey. We will filibuster in the senate, every single bill, including every appropriations bills. You will not get paid. Your staff will not get paid. Our economy will collapse. And the president will be blamed.”

Well, that would be my speech to Johnson.

 

[steve_bank]

The conflict was there to from the start.

AI Overview
No, Thomas Paine was not hated simply for supporting the separation of church and state; he was hated because he fiercely attacked Christianity and the Bible itself.

AI Overview
Thomas Paine argued against mixing religion and government in Common Sense (1776), writing in his appendix ("To the Quakers") that "mingling religion with politics" should be disavowed and reprobated by every American.

It is a short book online.

The first draft of what became the First Amendment used the phrase "religious belief" rather than "freedom of religion".

James Madison's initial June 8, 1789 proposal protected "religious belief or worship" and the "rights of conscience", though the full text can be reviewed in the referenced source.

From "Belief" to "Exercise": Through congressional revisions, the phrasing evolved into the Establishment Clause and the broader protection of the "free exercise" of religion

The nuanced difference what creates a lot of the problems. The intervention is not just freedom of belief and worship, but freedom to act out and impose based on beliefs.

There has always been a push to get Christianity back into public schools. If you are old enough to rememberr to get around COTUS and non establishment there was tume at the startr of the school day where kids couldp ray. Getting prayer back into schools was a big deal.

Haven't heard anything recently teachers were bringing Christianity into subjects. There was the case of a high school football team having group prayer on the playing field.

To me all of it is why it is important to senate religion on;ine.

 

[ideologyhunter]

Yeah, Trump isn't a Christian.

The man memorized Two Corinthians. Don't judge!!

 

[SLD]

Another article about these fucktards calling for anti blasphemy laws in the United States:

Anti-blasphemy laws in America?

Al Mohler's flirtation with Christian nationalism shows that privileging Christianity in law is going mainstream.

www.washingtonexaminer.com

What’s interesting is that they’re both Protestant and Catholic. They want constitutional amendments to enshrine Christianity. We freethinkers would become second class citizens and basically required to shut our mouths. But then the Protestant dude thinks the Catholics are blasphemers. Madison’s warnings about such sectarianism are never more a propos.

I was heartened that even the head of conservative Southern Baptist Convention is opposed to these views. Baptists who know the history of their church, are usually against blasphemy laws, knowing that they could be used against them. But one of the proponents is a long time head of Baptist Theological Seminary. One is Hegseth’s pastor. That’s what’s really scary.

 

[scombrid]

If they pass blasphemy laws I will rejoin the church of my youth and vehemently pursue all who blaspheme, especially sects like Catholics with their false doctrine and idolatry.

 

[ZiprHead]

Another article about these fucktards calling for anti blasphemy laws in the United States:

Anti-blasphemy laws in America?

Al Mohler's flirtation with Christian nationalism shows that privileging Christianity in law is going mainstream.

www.washingtonexaminer.com

What’s interesting is that they’re both Protestant and Catholic. They want constitutional amendments to enshrine Christianity. We freethinkers would become second class citizens and basically required to shut our mouths. But then the Protestant dude thinks the Catholics are blasphemers. Madison’s warnings about such sectarianism are never more a propos.

I was heartened that even the head of conservative Southern Baptist Convention is opposed to these views. Baptists who know the history of their church, are usually against blasphemy laws, knowing that they could be used against them. But one of the proponents is a long time head of Baptist Theological Seminary. One is Hegseth’s pastor. That’s what’s really scary.

So what's the difference between this and Muslims who want to make drawing Muhammed illegal, i.e. blasphemy?

 

[Tigers!]

Another article about these fucktards calling for anti blasphemy laws in the United States:

Anti-blasphemy laws in America?

Al Mohler's flirtation with Christian nationalism shows that privileging Christianity in law is going mainstream.

www.washingtonexaminer.com

What’s interesting is that they’re both Protestant and Catholic. They want constitutional amendments to enshrine Christianity. We freethinkers would become second class citizens and basically required to shut our mouths. But then the Protestant dude thinks the Catholics are blasphemers. Madison’s warnings about such sectarianism are never more a propos.

I was heartened that even the head of conservative Southern Baptist Convention is opposed to these views. Baptists who know the history of their church, are usually against blasphemy laws, knowing that they could be used against them. But one of the proponents is a long time head of Baptist Theological Seminary. One is Hegseth’s pastor. That’s what’s really scary.

So what's the difference between this and Muslims who want to make drawing Muhammed illegal, i.e. blasphemy?

None. Why do you ask?

 

[unapologetic]

He'll be out on his ass in 2029

Not fast enough.
Look at all the damage he's done in two years.
I can't take another two years.

, take him to court. At that point, fuck the courts.

What options do we have?
Hegseth is purging Officers who might oppose illegal orders.

Another article about these fucktards calling for anti blasphemy laws in the United States:

Dam, I wasn't paying attention. I missed International Blasphemy Day again this year. It was last week.

 

[unapologetic]

As a christian nation we'd still be a colony.
God wanted us to remain British.

 

[bilby]

God wanted us to remain British.

Nah. Fictional characters only have the wants of the storytellers. God wanted whatever anybody wanted. He still does.

 

[WAB]

King George III went off his rocker in his later years. Sounds familiar.

 

[SLD]

He'll be out on his ass in 2029

Not fast enough.
Look at all the damage he's done in two years.
I can't take another two years.

, take him to court. At that point, fuck the courts.

What options do we have?
Hegseth is purging Officers who might oppose illegal orders.

Another article about these fucktards calling for anti blasphemy laws in the United States:

Dam, I wasn't paying attention. I missed International Blasphemy Day again this year. It was last week.

Hegseth is trying to purge flag officers that would stand up to him indeed. But he has a serious problem. The lower he goes in rank, the higher demographic issues he has. 20% of the army is African American, and that’s total. It’s higher among enlisted soldiers. He might be able to count on the 4 stars, but outside of those he personally put into place, he has to be a bit wary. If the rank and file don’t follow him, he’ll be in trouble.

Bottom line is we may have to decide whether our democracy is indeed worth fighting for. Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty. People have stood up to tyranny and won. But it does require sacrifice. I have every intention of standing up to them if they try this shit. I hope it’s not necessary. But I’m not going to lie down and let them steamroll their way over our freedom.

It needs to happen all over the country too, not just in DC. A large number of people should truly occupy Wall Street. Shut down our financial heart. Large enough people could shut down DC. People should flood the DC streets and subways and shut them down. The train drivers are likely from very liberal DC and surrounding areas. They should strike. Dc Maryland and Northern Virginia are very blue. Our bureaucracy could stymie a huge amount of shit that they’re trying to pull. There are a huge number of options - and not necessarily violent.

But yes, you will have to get off your ass and show them. You’ll have plenty of company.