Noah’s Ark Found!!

[bilby]

My favorite question about the ark story is simply "What about all the people who already owned boats? Why didn't any of them survive too?"

 

[Tigers!]

AI Overview

During past warm interglacial periods, global sea levels rose about 3 to 20 meters (10 to 65 feet) higher than they are today

USGS
If all land ice on Earth melts, global sea levels would rise by approximately 65 to 70 meters (about 216 to 230 feet)

Everest 29,000 feet
Mt Hood Oregon 11,000
Mt Rainier Washington14,000

Deepest point the oceans is abut 36,,000 feet. Average depth 12,000 feet. Roughly speaking to cover the Earth with water as high as the highest mountains would take ro0ughly twice the water in the oceans.

Numbers do no add up for Noah's flood.

From our dear friend Google

"If all the land above sea level were flattened and pushed into the oceans, the entire planet would still be completely submerged under water.

The Numbers:

• Average land elevation: About 0.8 km (800 meters).
• Average ocean depth: About 3.7 km (3,700 meters).
• Ocean-to-land ratio: Oceans cover about 71% of the Earth's surface, while land covers about 29% (roughly a 2.4:1 ratio).

Because the volume of the oceans is vastly larger than the volume of all the dry land combined, moving all the land into the sea would only decrease the average depth of the oceans by about 0.33 km (330 meters), leaving the new global ocean with an average depth of roughly 3.4 km (3,400 meters). There would be no dry land left exposed"

If we were prepared to spend the energy and time and find somewhere for all people to live then there is more than enough water to cover the earth. A waste of our time and energy I would agree.

(The question I asked was "if all the land was pushed into the seas how much above the land would be covered by water?")

 

[Tigers!]

My favorite question about the ark story is simply "What about all the people who already owned boats? Why didn't any of them survive too?"

They had boats, not an ark.

 

[ideologyhunter]

God probably had schools of killer tuna.

 

[bilby]

If all the land above sea level were flattened and pushed into the oceans, the entire planet would still be completely submerged under water.

Sure, but Genesis doesn't so much as hint that this is what it claims to have happened; Indeed, it makes very clear that the mountains remained in place, and were covered primarily by water that fell as rain, and possibly also by water added to the sea from "all the fountains of the great deep", which were "broken up".

19 And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth; and all the high hills, that were under the whole heaven, were covered.

20 Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered.

The absence of geological evidence for the great flood is stark; Still more stark is the absence of geological evidence for the levelling of the continents and their being pushed into the oceans. Even Genesis doesn't suggest that "all the high hills, that were under the whole heaven, were levelled and pushed into the sea".

 

[bilby]

My favorite question about the ark story is simply "What about all the people who already owned boats? Why didn't any of them survive too?"

They had boats, not an ark.

A rose by any other name would smell as sweet.

Boat, ark, ship, vessel, pontoon, punt, canoe, coracle, kayak, raft... Loads of people had a way to escape from floodwater. Why didn't any of them survive?

 

[Tigers!]

My favorite question about the ark story is simply "What about all the people who already owned boats? Why didn't any of them survive too?"

They had boats, not an ark.

A rose by any other name would smell as sweet.

Boat, ark, ship, vessel, pontoon, punt, canoe, coracle, kayak, raft... Loads of people had a way to escape from floodwater. Why didn't any of them survive?

Approx. 370 days from the rain beginning until Noah left the ark. He has a large vessel, presumably well stocked. Had about 90 years to build it. One of the consequences of the ark account is that nobody believed Noah that it would happen.
Once the rains came and the fountains of the deep broke open there would not have been enough time to have gathered provisions, stocked a vessel for how long? They did not know. I suspect Noah did not know either when it all began.
No real surprises that no one else survived.

 

[Tigers!]

If all the land above sea level were flattened and pushed into the oceans, the entire planet would still be completely submerged under water.

Sure, but Genesis doesn't so much as hint that this is what it claims to have happened; Indeed, it makes very clear that the mountains remained in place, and were covered primarily by water that fell as rain, and possibly also by water added to the sea from "all the fountains of the great deep", which were "broken up".

19 And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth; and all the high hills, that were under the whole heaven, were covered.

20 Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered.

The absence of geological evidence for the great flood is stark; Still more stark is the absence of geological evidence for the levelling of the continents and their being pushed into the oceans. Even Genesis doesn't suggest that "all the high hills, that were under the whole heaven, were levelled and pushed into the sea".

I was responding to the comment that says that there is not enough water to cover all the land on earth. There is more than enough water to cover the earth provided certain conditions are met.

 

[DBT]

Praise the Lord, for He works in mysterious ways. We shall all understand when Jesus appears in the clouds, in power and glory, for all the tribes on earth to see and tremble. Hang on, that was supposed to happen two thousand years ago...

 

[Learner]

If all the land above sea level were flattened and pushed into the oceans, the entire planet would still be completely submerged under water.

Sure, but Genesis doesn't so much as hint that this is what it claims to have happened; Indeed, it makes very clear that the mountains remained in place, and were covered primarily by water that fell as rain, and possibly also by water added to the sea from "all the fountains of the great deep", which were "broken up".

19 And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth; and all the high hills, that were under the whole heaven, were covered.

20 Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered.

The absence of geological evidence for the great flood is stark; Still more stark is the absence of geological evidence for the levelling of the continents and their being pushed into the oceans. Even Genesis doesn't suggest that "all the high hills, that were under the whole heaven, were levelled and pushed into the sea".

I was responding to the comment that says that there is not enough water to cover all the land on earth. There is more than enough water to cover the earth provided certain conditions are met.

Indeed Tigers.

If we go by the current geological evidence.
It seems your analysis is quite correct.

• Himalayas and Tibet: Fossils including giant skulls and vertebrae have been discovered on the Himalayan Plateau and Tibetan mountaintops, providing evidence that these regions were once deep underwater before the collision of tectonic plates formed the mountains.
• Andes Mountains (Chile): Scientists have uncovered marine fossils, including whale bones, at altitudes exceeding 5,000 feet in the Andes, demonstrating the rapid rise of the mountain chain from the sea floor over the last 15 to 20 million years.
• California Coast Ranges: A nearly intact 25-foot mysticete whale skeleton was unearthed in Scotts Valley (Santa Cruz Mountains), dating back approximately 4 million years, preserved by uplift from tectonic activity.
• Japan: Recent excavations in the Shirakami-Sanchi mountains in Akita Prefecture revealed a 2.7-million-year-old baleen whale mandible and ribs, confirming the area was once a seabed.
• Other Locations: Significant finds also include the Cerro Ballena ("Whale Hill") fossil site in Chile’s Atacama Desert and Wadi al-Hitan ("Valley of the Whales") in Egypt, which contains some of the world's most complete early whale fossils.

 

[bilby]

Once the rains came and the fountains of the deep broke open there would not have been enough time to have gathered provisions, stocked a vessel for how long? They did not know. I suspect Noah did not know either when it all began.

Which is an excellent bit of desperate ad-hoc reasoning, right up until somebody points out that a very large proportion of boat owners at the time were fishermen. Like, professional fishermen, who made their livings by catching enough fish to have some to eat, and some left over to trade.

They might be bored to tears of eating fish at the end of ~370 days; But they wouldn't have gone hungry.

They had boats. They had fishing gear. Many would have lived on their boats (if they had left them unattended, no doubt some bugger would steal the fishing gear, or the boat, or both - Allegedly men in that time were known to be sinful), so they wouldn't all be caught ashore when the waters started to rise. Of the multitude* of humans alive at the time, it beggars belief that only Noah and his crew would have survived.




* Maybe even two or three multitudes; I don't have exact population numbers to hand

 

[bilby]

I was responding to the comment that says that there is not enough water to cover all the land on earth. There is more than enough water to cover the earth provided certain conditions are met.

An atomically perfect sphere would require only a minuscule amount of water to cover it totally. But as that's not the event that we are discussing, why bring it up?

Are we going to also debate the properties of seven pairs of spherical cows in a vacuum?

 

[ideologyhunter]

We shall all understand when Jesus appears in the clouds, in power and glory, for all the tribes on earth to see and tremble.

Apparently, he'll arrive on a white horse, in a robe covered with blood, and with a double-edged sword coming out of his mouth, with which he will slaughter the armies of darkness. Worst piercing ever -- he won't be pronouncing Methuselah or Beatitudes anytime soon. Will everyone be using ASL around him?

Laura Ingraham: I'm here with Jesus of Nazareth. Lord, I want to thank you for making The Ingraham Angle the first stop on your tour.
Jesus Christ: Glud tuh be huh.
Laura: Our audio people want to know if you can remove that sword.
Jesus: Uh caunth, ith magith.
Laura: It's magic? Okay. But are you still looking for evil people to fight? I thought you got 'em all.
Jesus: Buttah tuh be thafe thun thorry.
Laura: "Safe, than sorry"? Got it. Question from a viewer in Colorado Springs: 'why are Joe Biden and Barack Obama still on earth?'
Jesus: Oh muh Godth, Laula, tell thum to shtop wathing Foth Newth.
Laura: (loud laugh) Not sure what you said, Lord, but there was a twinkle in your eye! Question from a viewer in Erie, Pennsylvania: 'settle a bet, Jesus, who was older, Noah or Methuselah?'
Jesus: Muthooo-- Muh -- Muthooooth -- Muh, Muh --
Laura: Would you like some water?
Jesus: Muh -- MuhTHOOOSH -- MuhTHOOOTHUH -- Muh --
Laura: We'll be back in ninety seconds with Jesus of Nazareth, live, after a word from Chik-Fil-A. (Bumper music.)

 

[Politesse]

Which is an excellent bit of desperate ad-hoc reasoning, right up until somebody points out that a very large proportion of boat owners at the time were fishermen. Like, professional fishermen, who made their livings by catching enough fish to have some to eat, and some left over to trade.

Presuming they can find fish to catch in an ocean that has just largely turned into a dead zone due to rapid temperature change.

 

[bilby]

Which is an excellent bit of desperate ad-hoc reasoning, right up until somebody points out that a very large proportion of boat owners at the time were fishermen. Like, professional fishermen, who made their livings by catching enough fish to have some to eat, and some left over to trade.

Presuming they can find fish to catch in an ocean that has just largely turned into a dead zone due to rapid temperature change.

Fishes don't have the "breath of life", and so were unaffected by the flood, just like plants were.

21 And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of beast, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth, and every man:

22 All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died.

23 And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth: and Noah only remained alive, and they that were with him in the ark.

 

[bilby]

Indeed Tigers.

If we go by the current geological evidence.
It seems your analysis is quite correct.

No it doesn't:

the collision of tectonic plates formed the mountains.

the rapid rise of the mountain chain from the sea floor over the last 15 to 20 million years.

uplift from tectonic activity.

2.7-million-year-old

Your own source says that the mountains rose out of the sea, due to tectonic activity, over millions of years.

That's completely the opposite of an "analysis" that absurdly suggests that the sea rose over the mountains, in less than a year.

If we go by the evidence you yourself just posted, it is immediately obvious that Tigers' "analysis" is utter tripe.

 

[steve_bank]

Old news

Fossils of tropical plants and animals are found at the poles because those regions were once near the equator and lived in warm, tropical climates, later moving to polar positions due to continental drift and global climate change

Polar forests of the Cretaceous - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Cretaceous polar forests were temperate forests that grew at polar latitudes towards the end of the Mesozoic Era, known as the Cretaceous Period (145–66 Ma).[1] At this time, global average temperature was about 10 °C (18 °F) higher and carbon dioxide (CO2) levels were around 1000 parts per million (ppm), 2.5 times the current concentration in Earth's atmosphere.[2] High atmospheric carbon dioxide is one of the main causes of a pronounced greenhouse Earth in the Cretaceous, with a low global temperature gradient. This means that high latitudes in both hemispheres were much warmer than they are now, and the Earth lacked ice caps.[2]

That there are marine fossils at higher altitudes says nothing about a global flood 4000 years ago.

Given the marine fossil record humans would nit want to go fishing or swimming in the oceans. If you think god created everything at the same time.

The oceans were a real life monster movie.

 

[Politesse]

Which is an excellent bit of desperate ad-hoc reasoning, right up until somebody points out that a very large proportion of boat owners at the time were fishermen. Like, professional fishermen, who made their livings by catching enough fish to have some to eat, and some left over to trade.

Presuming they can find fish to catch in an ocean that has just largely turned into a dead zone due to rapid temperature change.

Fishes don't have the "breath of life", and so were unaffected by the flood, just like plants were.

21 And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of beast, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth, and every man:

22 All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died.

23 And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth: and Noah only remained alive, and they that were with him in the ark.

The sudden addition of an entire extra ocean atop their usual habitat would not be good for the fishies.

 

[Elixir]

The sudden addition of an entire extra ocean atop their usual habitat would not be good for the fishies.

Nah. They just swam up to their habituated depth.
Then they died. 40 days and night of raging storm stirred up so much sediment, they all choked.
God didn’t give a shit.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Meanwhile, a suspected 4,700 year old shipwreck was found off the coast of Turkey. Of course, this will likely go the peer review path. There isn't a boat anymore, just the stuff that was in it.

The wreck is close to the shore of Kekova Island in Antalya, Turkey. The artefacts lie scattered across an underwater slope, just 30m beneath the waves.

Three large stone anchors were found, as well as more than 30 ceramic storage pots, called amphorae.

The fact that none of the ship's wood remained meant techniques like radiocarbon dating - which measures a form of carbon in organic materials - could not be used to determine its age.

Instead, archaeologists analysed the shape of the amphorae. Because pottery styles have changed over time, different styles are linked to particular periods.

Apparently the ark was much smaller (10 meters) than recorded in the Narrative of the Great Flood.