Merged Gaza just launched an unprovoked attack on Israel

[ZiprHead]

I don't think its always antisemitism. But often when pro-Palestine supporters try arguing their case there's no arguments. There's zero attempt to understand the actions of Israel. Then its antisemitism. That's all that's left.

But most often I think its antisemetic propaganda that gets spread and passed around. When it reaches someone otherwise sensible, they might be convinced by the argument. That is still antisemitism. We would never condone anyome committing an act of hate crime, just because they didn't know any better in any other context.

There's now more antisemetic propaganda floating about, on every channel, than ever before. Failure to do due diligence and think critically about it at this time, I think is inexcusable.

I niether tolerate antisemitism due to ignorance or maliciousness. Because the result is the same.

And this is perhaps the most important. Israel controlling Gaza, is at the moment, probably, the Gazan peoples best and only chance to be ruled by a power that cares about them, and offer stability, wise and non-corrupt govornence. So being pro Israel right now is also being pro Palestine. And being pro-Palestine right now, is in practice being pro-Hamas, which will only lead to endless carnage.

If you care about Palestinian civilians the best option is to support Israel

 

[Emily Lake]

I don't think its always antisemitism. But often when pro-Palestine supporters try arguing their case there's no arguments. There's zero attempt to understand the actions of Israel. Then its antisemitism. That's all that's left.

But most often I think its antisemetic propaganda that gets spread and passed around. When it reaches someone otherwise sensible, they might be convinced by the argument. That is still antisemitism. We would never condone anyome committing an act of hate crime, just because they didn't know any better in any other context.

There's now more antisemetic propaganda floating about, on every channel, than ever before. Failure to do due diligence and think critically about it at this time, I think is inexcusable.

I niether tolerate antisemitism due to ignorance or maliciousness. Because the result is the same.

And this is perhaps the most important. Israel controlling Gaza, is at the moment, probably, the Gazan peoples best and only chance to be ruled by a power that cares about them, and offer stability, wise and non-corrupt govornence. So being pro Israel right now is also being pro Palestine. And being pro-Palestine right now, is in practice being pro-Hamas, which will only lead to endless carnage.

If you care about Palestinian civilians the best option is to support Israel

View attachment 55860

Because religious zealots who engage in terrorist actions have proven themselves to be fair governors of their people and support democracy and liberty?

Do you actually think that Hamas is going to become a bastion of freedom and sustainability if they succeed in genociding the entire Israeli population? Or do you think that palestinians are going to somehow force democracy into place and vote hamas out, and hamas will meekly concede to the wishes of the people?

Because my money is on them ruling like afghanistan and iran.

 

[laughing dog]

I don't think its always antisemitism. But often when pro-Palestine supporters try arguing their case there's no arguments. There's zero attempt to understand the actions of Israel. Then its antisemitism. That's all that's left.

But most often I think its antisemetic propaganda that gets spread and passed around. When it reaches someone otherwise sensible, they might be convinced by the argument. That is still antisemitism. We would never condone anyome committing an act of hate crime, just because they didn't know any better in any other context.

There's now more antisemetic propaganda floating about, on every channel, than ever before. Failure to do due diligence and think critically about it at this time, I think is inexcusable.

I niether tolerate antisemitism due to ignorance or maliciousness. Because the result is the same.

And this is perhaps the most important. Israel controlling Gaza, is at the moment, probably, the Gazan peoples best and only chance to be ruled by a power that cares about them, and offer stability, wise and non-corrupt govornence. So being pro Israel right now is also being pro Palestine. And being pro-Palestine right now, is in practice being pro-Hamas, which will only lead to endless carnage.

If you care about Palestinian civilians the best option is to support Israel

View attachment 55860

Because religious zealots who engage in terrorist actions have proven themselves to be fair governors of their people and support democracy and liberty?

The irony is that aptly describes the ultra-orthodox right in Israel.

Do you actually think that Hamas is going to become a bastion of freedom and sustainability if they succeed in genociding the entire Israeli population? Or do you think that palestinians are going to somehow force democracy into place and vote hamas out, and hamas will meekly concede to the wishes of the people?

Because my money is on them ruling like afghanistan and iran.

You missed the point. It is either delusional or mendacious to claim the gov’t of Israel cares about Gazans or that it will oversee Gaza with wisdom as Dr Z claims.

No one is suggesting Gazans will become paragons of democracy or that they will obliterate Israel. Those are straw men.

 

[Harry Bosch]

Comparing Israel’s situation to that of Ukraine is breathtaking. Consider my break taken!

I mean, to begin with (there could be much more to say), Gaza and Hamas in no way resemble Russia and Putin. Again, there could be much more to say, but why bother? This is simply daft.

A much better comparison is likening Israel to Russia.

If you ignore the Hamas 7th Oct attack then you might be correct.

Yes. Ukraine never attacked Russia.

 

[Patooka]

I don't think its always antisemitism. But often when pro-Palestine supporters try arguing their case there's no arguments. There's zero attempt to understand the actions of Israel. Then its antisemitism. That's all that's left.

But most often I think its antisemetic propaganda that gets spread and passed around. When it reaches someone otherwise sensible, they might be convinced by the argument. That is still antisemitism. We would never condone anyome committing an act of hate crime, just because they didn't know any better in any other context.

There's now more antisemetic propaganda floating about, on every channel, than ever before. Failure to do due diligence and think critically about it at this time, I think is inexcusable.

I niether tolerate antisemitism due to ignorance or maliciousness. Because the result is the same.

And this is perhaps the most important. Israel controlling Gaza, is at the moment, probably, the Gazan peoples best and only chance to be ruled by a power that cares about them, and offer stability, wise and non-corrupt govornence. So being pro Israel right now is also being pro Palestine. And being pro-Palestine right now, is in practice being pro-Hamas, which will only lead to endless carnage.

If you care about Palestinian civilians the best option is to support Israel

View attachment 55860

Because religious zealots who engage in terrorist actions have proven themselves to be fair governors of their people and support democracy and liberty? (emphasis mine)

Do you actually think that Hamas is going to become a bastion of freedom and sustainability if they succeed in genociding the entire Israeli population? Or do you think that palestinians are going to somehow force democracy into place and vote hamas out, and hamas will meekly concede to the wishes of the people?

Because my money is on them ruling like afghanistan and iran.

Tell us you know nothing about the history of modern Israel without saying you know nothing about the history of modern day Israel.

Or Ireland

Or Timor Leste

Or South Africa

 

[DrZoidberg]

I don't think its always antisemitism. But often when pro-Palestine supporters try arguing their case there's no arguments. There's zero attempt to understand the actions of Israel. Then its antisemitism. That's all that's left.

But most often I think its antisemetic propaganda that gets spread and passed around. When it reaches someone otherwise sensible, they might be convinced by the argument. That is still antisemitism. We would never condone anyome committing an act of hate crime, just because they didn't know any better in any other context.

There's now more antisemetic propaganda floating about, on every channel, than ever before. Failure to do due diligence and think critically about it at this time, I think is inexcusable.

I niether tolerate antisemitism due to ignorance or maliciousness. Because the result is the same.

And this is perhaps the most important. Israel controlling Gaza, is at the moment, probably, the Gazan peoples best and only chance to be ruled by a power that cares about them, and offer stability, wise and non-corrupt govornence. So being pro Israel right now is also being pro Palestine. And being pro-Palestine right now, is in practice being pro-Hamas, which will only lead to endless carnage.

If you care about Palestinian civilians the best option is to support Israel

View attachment 55860

Because religious zealots who engage in terrorist actions have proven themselves to be fair governors of their people and support democracy and liberty?

The irony is that aptly describes the ultra-orthodox right in Israel.

Do you actually think that Hamas is going to become a bastion of freedom and sustainability if they succeed in genociding the entire Israeli population? Or do you think that palestinians are going to somehow force democracy into place and vote hamas out, and hamas will meekly concede to the wishes of the people?

Because my money is on them ruling like afghanistan and iran.

You missed the point. It is either delusional or mendacious to claim the gov’t of Israel cares about Gazans or that it will oversee Gaza with wisdom as Dr Z claims.

No one is suggesting Gazans will become paragons of democracy or that they will obliterate Israel. Those are straw men.

In all of the Middle-East the Palestinians living inside Israel are the least oppressed and most free Palestinians. That includes oppression by other Palestinians. The Palestinians living inside Israel are among the most free people and least oppressed in all of the Middle-East.

Tell me more about how I'm deluded?

 

[laughing dog]

I don't think its always antisemitism. But often when pro-Palestine supporters try arguing their case there's no arguments. There's zero attempt to understand the actions of Israel. Then its antisemitism. That's all that's left.

But most often I think its antisemetic propaganda that gets spread and passed around. When it reaches someone otherwise sensible, they might be convinced by the argument. That is still antisemitism. We would never condone anyome committing an act of hate crime, just because they didn't know any better in any other context.

There's now more antisemetic propaganda floating about, on every channel, than ever before. Failure to do due diligence and think critically about it at this time, I think is inexcusable.

I niether tolerate antisemitism due to ignorance or maliciousness. Because the result is the same.

And this is perhaps the most important. Israel controlling Gaza, is at the moment, probably, the Gazan peoples best and only chance to be ruled by a power that cares about them, and offer stability, wise and non-corrupt govornence. So being pro Israel right now is also being pro Palestine. And being pro-Palestine right now, is in practice being pro-Hamas, which will only lead to endless carnage.

If you care about Palestinian civilians the best option is to support Israel

View attachment 55860

Because religious zealots who engage in terrorist actions have proven themselves to be fair governors of their people and support democracy and liberty?

The irony is that aptly describes the ultra-orthodox right in Israel.

Do you actually think that Hamas is going to become a bastion of freedom and sustainability if they succeed in genociding the entire Israeli population? Or do you think that palestinians are going to somehow force democracy into place and vote hamas out, and hamas will meekly concede to the wishes of the people?

Because my money is on them ruling like afghanistan and iran.

You missed the point. It is either delusional or mendacious to claim the gov’t of Israel cares about Gazans or that it will oversee Gaza with wisdom as Dr Z claims.

No one is suggesting Gazans will become paragons of democracy or that they will obliterate Israel. Those are straw men.

In all of the Middle-East the Palestinians living inside Israel are the least oppressed and most free Palestinians. That includes oppression by other Palestinians. The Palestinians living inside Israel are among the most free people and least oppressed in all of the Middle-East.

Tell me more about how I'm deluded?

No need, your post does not address my Israel’s caring about Gazans.

 

[TomC]

No need, your post does not address my Israel’s caring about Gazans.

The Israelis have done more to promote peace and prosperity for Palestinians, especially Gazans, than the Palestinians leadership has done for generations!
That's why the violent Islamists have been starting wars against Israel all these decades.
Tom

 

[Emily Lake]

You missed the point. It is either delusional or mendacious to claim the gov’t of Israel cares about Gazans or that it will oversee Gaza with wisdom as Dr Z claims.

Well, Israel didn’t go on killing sprees when they’ve had authority over Palestinians in the past. And Muslims living in Israel proper haven’t really been hunted down and killed, jailed, or pressured to convert. Despite having consistently and repeatedly having been attacked and terrorized by those Palestinians and Muslims.

I think Israel is much more likely to govern with care for Palestinians than the other way around.

 

[Emily Lake]

I don't think its always antisemitism. But often when pro-Palestine supporters try arguing their case there's no arguments. There's zero attempt to understand the actions of Israel. Then its antisemitism. That's all that's left.

But most often I think its antisemetic propaganda that gets spread and passed around. When it reaches someone otherwise sensible, they might be convinced by the argument. That is still antisemitism. We would never condone anyome committing an act of hate crime, just because they didn't know any better in any other context.

There's now more antisemetic propaganda floating about, on every channel, than ever before. Failure to do due diligence and think critically about it at this time, I think is inexcusable.

I niether tolerate antisemitism due to ignorance or maliciousness. Because the result is the same.

And this is perhaps the most important. Israel controlling Gaza, is at the moment, probably, the Gazan peoples best and only chance to be ruled by a power that cares about them, and offer stability, wise and non-corrupt govornence. So being pro Israel right now is also being pro Palestine. And being pro-Palestine right now, is in practice being pro-Hamas, which will only lead to endless carnage.

If you care about Palestinian civilians the best option is to support Israel

View attachment 55860

Because religious zealots who engage in terrorist actions have proven themselves to be fair governors of their people and support democracy and liberty? (emphasis mine)

Do you actually think that Hamas is going to become a bastion of freedom and sustainability if they succeed in genociding the entire Israeli population? Or do you think that palestinians are going to somehow force democracy into place and vote hamas out, and hamas will meekly concede to the wishes of the people?

Because my money is on them ruling like afghanistan and iran.

Tell us you know nothing about the history of modern Israel without saying you know nothing about the history of modern day Israel.

Or Ireland

Or Timor Leste

Or South Africa

I feel like you missed the sarcasm there.

 

[laughing dog]

No need, your post does not address my Israel’s caring about Gazans.

The Israelis have done more to promote peace and prosperity for Palestinians, especially Gazans, than the Palestinians leadership has done for generations!
That's why the violent Islamists have been starting wars against Israel all these decades.
Tom

So violent Islamists have been starting violent wars against Israel because of Israel’s success in promoting peace and prosperity in the West Bank and Gaza?

 

[laughing dog]

You missed the point. It is either delusional or mendacious to claim the gov’t of Israel cares about Gazans or that it will oversee Gaza with wisdom as Dr Z claims.

Well, Israel didn’t go on killing sprees when they’ve had authority over Palestinians in the past. And Muslims living in Israel proper haven’t really been hunted down and killed, jailed, or pressured to convert. Despite having consistently and repeatedly having been attacked and terrorized by those Palestinians and Muslims.

Arabs in the West Bank have.

I Israel is much more likely to govern with care for Palestinians than the other way around.

“Governing with care” and “caring about” are different. And not being terrible is not “governing with care”.

 

[TomC]

No need, your post does not address my Israel’s caring about Gazans.

The Israelis have done more to promote peace and prosperity for Palestinians, especially Gazans, than the Palestinians leadership has done for generations!
That's why the violent Islamists have been starting wars against Israel all these decades.
Tom

So violent Islamists have been starting violent wars against Israel because of Israel’s success in promoting peace and prosperity in the West Bank and Gaza?

Yep
That's why the Gazans keep attacking Israel.
Tom

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

How does one terrorist act mean it's okay to attack Gaza as Israel is doing? It reminds me in a way of how Bush started stupid, mindless wars due to one terrorist attack on the US.

I seem to remember that FDR committed the US to war against Japan based upon a single terror attack.

How to say, don't take anything I ever say seriously, without saying 'don't take anything I ever say seriously'. The parallels between Pearl Harbor and 10/7 are near non-existent, other than there was an attacker and an attacked. Scope, goals, targets, history. Jesus Fucking Christ what a stupid thing to say.

And the entire strawman of 'Israel isn't allowed to defend itself then?!' is just as stupid. The issue wasn't self defense, it was the extensive duration, widespread nature, and seemingly inhumane take on it... and how it wasn't getting the hostages home.

 

[steve_bank]

Israel has always promoter peace? Somebody has been drinking the Israeli Kool Aide.

Long running Netayahu hs always been anti peace well before taking office.

Several peqce accords were trashed by Israel. They don't want it. They'd have to give up colonization. If Palestinians get any kind of formal recognition they have stanging to make claims against Israel.

Netanyahu said explicitly what was once Israel was given by god to Jews and they can do whatever they see fit with it. He is the Jewish equivalent of our biblical literalist Christians.

Yigal Amir
In November 1995, he was assassinated by Yigal Amir, an extremist who opposed the terms of the Oslo Accords. Amir was convicted of Rabin's murder and sentenced to life imprisonment.

There is evidence Netanyahu knew of the plot and did nothing.

And again modern Israel formed itself by taking land from Arabs. They are doing it as we speak.

 

[Derec]

Nevermind the total lack of effort and sheer indifference of Netanyahu's regime in retrieving the hostages taken on Oct 7 three fucking years ago. That they prioritise genocide, collective punishment and other fun war crimes over that is telling in and of itself.

That's quite a ridiculous assessment. How do you propose that hostages were to be freed without taking the war to Hamas? And note that direct hostage rescue was done in one instance where four hostages were held in two ostensibly civilian apartments. By the way, one of these apartments was owned and occupied by a Hamas father-son duo who had physician and journalist as day jobs.

That brings me to civilian casualties. They are to some extent inevitable in urban warfare, but there are more civilian casualties because of Hamas (and its allies) operating from among civilians. To accuse Israel of "genocide" over casualties that Hamas' strategy and tactics have caused is to swallow Hamas' propaganda like a good useful idiot (not an insult, but an actual term of art).

 

[Derec]

Several peqce accords were trashed by Israel. They don't want it.

Bullshit. Israel successfully made peace deals with Egypt and Jordan. And Israel offered Palestinians a very generous peace accord at Camp David. Palestinians refused, and instead started the 2nd Intifada which involved many suicide bombings such as this one or this one.
It is true that Bibi is more hardline than the likes of Ehud Barak, but his return to prime ministership in 2009 is a direct consequence of the failure of negotiating with Palestinians.

They'd have to give up colonization.

What do you mean by "colonization"? In reality it is the Arabs that colonized the Land of Israel.

If Palestinians get any kind of formal recognition they have stanging to make claims against Israel.

What about being held responsible for their crimes against humanity, including against their own people. For just one recent example, it is a war crime to use a hospital for militant operations.

Netanyahu said explicitly what was once Israel was given by god to Jews and they can do whatever they see fit with it. He is the Jewish equivalent of our biblical literalist Christians.

[citation needed]

There is evidence Netanyahu knew of the plot and did nothing.

[citation needed]
How would Netanyahu have known of the plot, or be able to act to thwart it? He wasn't even in government at the time.

And again modern Israel formed itself by taking land from Arabs. They are doing it as we speak.

Wrong. That land was occupied by Ottomans before becoming a British protectorate after WWI. Why do you think Arab colonizers have some sort of claim on the Land of Israel? They do not even have a native name for the land, which is why they use a Greco-Roman colonial name which has a sound that does not even exist in their language. And to preclude a possible objection, Palestinian Arabs have nothing whatsoever to do with the ancient Philistines, which are descendants of the Sea Peoples.

 

[bilby]

“It’s a war,” she shouted. “You have seen both societies! You cannot tell me with a straight face that you see us as being the same as them! All you have seen are the horrible things they do and the horrible things they make us do.”

— Jason Pargin, There are NO Giant Crabs in this Novel

 

[laughing dog]

No need, your post does not address my Israel’s caring about Gazans.

The Israelis have done more to promote peace and prosperity for Palestinians, especially Gazans, than the Palestinians leadership has done for generations!
That's why the violent Islamists have been starting wars against Israel all these decades.
Tom

So violent Islamists have been starting violent wars against Israel because of Israel’s success in promoting peace and prosperity in the West Bank and Gaza?

Yep
That's why the Gazans keep attacking Israel.
Tom

And you know this because…..?

 

[TomC]

And you know this because…..?

Because I know a bit about recent history.
It doesn't take a lot.
Tom