Obama has done it now - Nine Shot dead in church

[Jimmy Higgins]

Actually to lie there like a sheep is good depending on the situation (if the gunman has not seen you). If he has seen you and is actively shooting people it is best for the group to rush him gong for his arms. But most people have not undergone active shooter training.

Here are some resources:
https://www.dhs.gov/xlibrary/assets/active_shooter_booklet.pdf
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VcSwejU2D0

And note that in this shooting neither running nor hiding was a viable option.

Because there were survivors, your statement is garbage.

 

[Derec]

I think the anti-caps only support those that claim to be innocent and who may have had an iffy trial.
I don't think there are many anti-caps that support 'rehabilitation' for admitted mass-murderers... at least not vocal ones.

Yeah, they prefer vocal cop killers like Mumia Abu-Jamal.

 

[Toni]

Actually to lie there like a sheep is good depending on the situation (if the gunman has not seen you). If he has seen you and is actively shooting people it is best for the group to rush him gong for his arms. But most people have not undergone active shooter training.

Here are some resources:
https://www.dhs.gov/xlibrary/assets/active_shooter_booklet.pdf
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VcSwejU2D0

And note that in this shooting neither running nor hiding was a viable option. Thus I am saying the same thing the professionals are saying--fight.

So, is that what you have done in an active shooter scenario? Or with an armed intruder?

Details, please.

- - - Updated - - -

I think the anti-caps only support those that claim to be innocent and who may have had an iffy trial.
I don't think there are many anti-caps that support 'rehabilitation' for admitted mass-murderers... at least not vocal ones.

Yeah, they prefer vocal cop killers like Mumia Abu-Jamal.

Derec, we are all waiting for your personal testimony about how you took down an armed bad guy (black, of course) and saved yourself and everyone else.

Really. I'd love to hear all about it.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I think the anti-caps only support those that claim to be innocent and who may have had an iffy trial.
I don't think there are many anti-caps that support 'rehabilitation' for admitted mass-murderers... at least not vocal ones.

Yeah, they prefer vocal cop killers like Mumia Abu-Jamal.

So we are changing the subject now? And while Mumia Abi-Jamal apparently has anti-death penalty supporters, this is the first time I've ever heard his name.

Could get back on subject where you explain exactly, and in what steps the people in the church should have taken to reduce the death toll, I mean other than your Underwear Gnome version of:

1) Shooter reloading
2) ...
3) Shooter disarmed

 

[Nice Squirrel]

Actually to lie there like a sheep is good depending on the situation (if the gunman has not seen you). If he has seen you and is actively shooting people it is best for the group to rush him gong for his arms. But most people have not undergone active shooter training.

Here are some resources:
https://www.dhs.gov/xlibrary/assets/active_shooter_booklet.pdf
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VcSwejU2D0

And note that in this shooting neither running nor hiding was a viable option. Thus I am saying the same thing the professionals are saying--fight.

Really? Which professionals? Because the professionals teaching the active shooter (law enforcement, Homeland Security) response training say differently. You might want to actually take a look at the links I provided or research "active shooter response". It also includes methods for not getting shot if you are armed and the police arrive. (They state not to expect them to tell the difference between you - the good guy with the gun or the shooter - the bad guy with the gun. They just will be going for the guy with the gun.)

 

[AthenaAwakened]

Actually to lie there like a sheep is good depending on the situation (if the gunman has not seen you). If he has seen you and is actively shooting people it is best for the group to rush him gong for his arms. But most people have not undergone active shooter training.

Here are some resources:
https://www.dhs.gov/xlibrary/assets/active_shooter_booklet.pdf
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VcSwejU2D0

And note that in this shooting neither running nor hiding was a viable option. Thus I am saying the same thing the professionals are saying--fight.

Who in that church was a professional in surviving mass shootings?

ya know, sometimes it is just better to stop typing.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

And in a case where it's clear the perp intends to kill them all there's no reason not to try to take him down. You don't really need strength, if enough people pile on they'll succeed.

Exactly.

Let me qualify my statement

"someone who wanted to live who was willing to fight for their life"

Incorrect again.

It would take someone who wanted OTHERS to love and was willing to get shot in the attempt.

he reloaded FIVE times, people should have been catching on.

So in your Action Hero fantasy the librarian peaks out from behind her cover and notices, at the third reload, that Roof's finger is hitting a button on the trigger guard to pop the magazine out of the gun. She also notices that he is fumbling with a fanny pack to get a fresh magazine out, and noticing it takes him a full seven seconds (LOL) to reload and rack his gun. So she calmly judges the distance between them -- eight feet exactly -- and does the calculations in her head, based on an average human running speed, how long it will take her to cover that distance in a full sprint; also, she read a book on Krav Magra last month and she has a pretty good idea how to wrestle that gun away from him after she slams into him. Then she returns to cover, counts his shots (one, two, three... pause... four five six in rapid succession and Amy screams. Poor Amy... seven eight...) she knows he's empty. She peaks up again. Watches his hand. His finger goes for the mag release. Coiling up her cat-like reflexes she springs out from cover and SAVES THE DAY!

Meanwhile, in reality...

The librarian peaks out from behind cover and notices Roof doing something to his gun, and then another something, and then is immediately shot in the face because she is no longer in cover.

 

[AthenaAwakened]

No one here knows who was shot in what order. And no one here knows how debilitating it is to see family and friend fall around you and how strong the pull may be to help them as oppose to play John Wayne in hopes of making faceless internet screennames happy and proud days later.

Since we don't know, maybe the Monday morning quarterbacking need to cease and the "experts" need to stfu.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

And note that in this shooting neither running nor hiding was a viable option. Thus I am saying the same thing the professionals are saying--fight.

Who in that church was a professional in surviving mass shootings?

ya know, sometimes it is just better to stop typing.

Was Sean Connery there? He could take a man down with his thumb. Also, according to his Untouchables philosophy, if they pull a knife, you pull a gun, therefore if they pull out a gun, you pull out a tank.

Also need to wonder the apologetics of a bunch of blacks that shot and killed a white boy that came to a bible study and planted a gun on him.

 

[laughing dog]

Who in that church was a professional in surviving mass shootings?

ya know, sometimes it is just better to stop typing.

Was Sean Connery there? He could take a man down with his thumb. Also, according to his Untouchables philosophy, if they pull a knife, you pull a gun, therefore if they pull out a gun, you pull out a tank.

Also need to wonder the apologetics of a bunch of blacks that shot and killed a white boy that came to a bible study and planted a gun on him.

So, we have seen 1) that these killings may not have racially motivated, and 2) the victims should have know exactly what to do and taken an armed assailant on. As of any of those fantastically stupid suggestions have anything to do with the actual tragedy that occurred. Nine black people who welcomed a white person into their midst in a church that is a strong symbol in the struggle for civil rights where then senselessly murdered that an overt racist lunatic. To even hint that the victims are somewhat responsible for their deaths is a travesty of reason and humanity.

 

[credoconsolans]

Exactly.

Let me qualify my statement

"someone who wanted to live who was willing to fight for their life"

Incorrect again.

It would take someone who wanted OTHERS to love and was willing to get shot in the attempt.

he reloaded FIVE times, people should have been catching on.

So in your Action Hero fantasy the librarian peaks out from behind her cover and notices...

Yet the fantasy happens in real life. And what do the folks who take down the shooter say?

"I waited for him to stop and reload..."

There you go.

 

[AthenaAwakened]

Incorrect again.

It would take someone who wanted OTHERS to love and was willing to get shot in the attempt.

he reloaded FIVE times, people should have been catching on.

So in your Action Hero fantasy the librarian peaks out from behind her cover and notices...

Yet the fantasy happens in real life. And what do the folks who take down the shooter say?

"I waited for him to stop and reload..."

There you go.

How often does that happen?

 

[credoconsolans]

Incorrect again.

It would take someone who wanted OTHERS to love and was willing to get shot in the attempt.

he reloaded FIVE times, people should have been catching on.

So in your Action Hero fantasy the librarian peaks out from behind her cover and notices...

Yet the fantasy happens in real life. And what do the folks who take down the shooter say?

"I waited for him to stop and reload..."

There you go.

How often does that happen?

Enough that we know about it.

 

[laughing dog]

Enough that we know about it.

Perhaps you could cite some examples or statistics to give those of us who have never heard of this outside of the movies or TV some real life context.

 

[AthenaAwakened]

Incorrect again.

It would take someone who wanted OTHERS to love and was willing to get shot in the attempt.

he reloaded FIVE times, people should have been catching on.

So in your Action Hero fantasy the librarian peaks out from behind her cover and notices...

Yet the fantasy happens in real life. And what do the folks who take down the shooter say?

"I waited for him to stop and reload..."

There you go.

How often does that happen?

Enough that we know about it.

How many times? I know about people going to the moon, doesn't make it a regular occurrence or likely to happen. So I will ask again, how often does it occur?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Incorrect again.

It would take someone who wanted OTHERS to love and was willing to get shot in the attempt.

he reloaded FIVE times, people should have been catching on.

So in your Action Hero fantasy the librarian peaks out from behind her cover and notices...

Yet the fantasy happens in real life. And what do the folks who take down the shooter say?

"I waited for him to stop and reload..."

There you go.

And in what circumstances existed in that church that would allowed it? How long to reload? Was he using a six shooter?

 

[RavenSky]

I can't help but to believe that behind this multi-day "coulda, shoulda" nonsense are three people trying to imply that the victims were cowards. None of these three will come right out and say that, of course; and I am certain they will vehemently deny it. But that is what it looks like to me.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

And note that in this shooting neither running nor hiding was a viable option.

Because there were survivors, your statement is garbage.

That doesn't follow.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Because there were survivors, your statement is garbage.

That doesn't follow.

It does follow because otherwise they would all be dead.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

And note that in this shooting neither running nor hiding was a viable option. Thus I am saying the same thing the professionals are saying--fight.

Really? Which professionals? Because the professionals teaching the active shooter (law enforcement, Homeland Security) response training say differently. You might want to actually take a look at the links I provided or research "active shooter response". It also includes methods for not getting shot if you are armed and the police arrive. (They state not to expect them to tell the difference between you - the good guy with the gun or the shooter - the bad guy with the gun. They just will be going for the guy with the gun.)

They're saying evacuate, hide, fight--in that order.

Since neither evacuate nor hide is viable in this situation that leaves fight.