US President 2016 - the Great Horse Race

[RavenSky]

Telling the CIA he'll have their back, 'maybe too much', is obvious grandstanding and an insult to their intelligence.

Yes, and they as much as said so; as clearly as they could without directly calling bullshit on him.

CBS Confirms Trump Brought His Own Studio Audience To Clap For Him At CIA Speech

CBS News confirmed reports that President Donald Trump brought a studio audience to his visit with the CIA on Saturday. The news agency reports that an official said the visit left a wake of “unease,” “made relations with the intelligence community worse,” and was “uncomfortable.”

Intelligence people were “stunned” and “offended by the president’s tone,” CBS reported U.S. government sources tell CBS News that there is a sense of unease in the intelligence community after President Trump’s visit to CIA headquarters on Saturday.”

Out of thousands invited, 400 RSVP’d, and “Officials dismiss White House claims that there were people waiting to get into the event.” No, there were not people waiting to get in.

Trump needed to repair relations with the CIA after spending his time on the trail undermining the intelligence community, but instead he offended them in numerous ways to the degree that they are now confirming to the press that he brought his own cheering audience.

The real point here isn’t just that Donald Trump is very insecure, but more importantly that he tried to mislead the public into seeing the CIA as a partisan agency that wholly supported his very divisive campaign and now presidency. By doing that, Trump is working toward his larger goal of undermining the American voters’ trust in our government and media.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

Jason is wrong though.

If I had taken classified government documents from the classified government computer onto my own computer, I would have indeed gotten into a great deal of trouble. Because of that it is very hard to say that I am wrong.

J842P is correct, this is a matter of this dialogue:
Jason: "Hilary Clinton got away with something that would have landed a less prominent individual in serious trouble". Jimmy: "Get over it".

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

They did say she was "careless". Any other private citizen would have had his/her arse in jail!

Eh, probably a large fine and probation. At most.

- - - Updated - - -

No. The difference is I'm not as important as she is, and I admit as such. I don't have deep political connections, she did.

So get over it.

Look, I rarely agree with Jason on many issues, although generally we are in agreement on foreign policy. But for a second, resist the urge to kneejerk disagree with anything Jason says and defend Hillary for anything she does or has done - the election is over, by the way - and think about this exchange I'm quoting:

Jason: "Hilary Clinton got away with something that would have landed a less prominent individual in serious trouble". Jimmy: "Get over it".

Is that really how you think?

I download porn at the office, I'll be fired. A manager downloads porn, lots of porn, and everyone knows, but nothing. That is life. People at the tops of power have always been given leeway. I'm not losing sleep over the damn emails. What she did was unethical, but it wasn't very prosecutable.

 

[DrZoidberg]

An Iranian academic researcher in law that I know doesn't know if he'll be able to go to a conference in USA. He's lived his whole life in Sweden. He's an atheist.

Guess if all scientific conferences from now on will be moved to Europe and Asia, just to minimise the hassles?

Great going Trump. This is truly an idiocracy

BTW, interesting fact. Iranian citizenship isn't optional. You can't reject Iranian citizenship. My friend does not have an Iranian passport. Since he can't go there for legal reasons. So he shows up in the lists of its citizens. So he can't do anything about it

 

[bilby]

An Iranian academic researcher in law that I know doesn't know if he'll be able to go to a conference in USA. He's lived his whole life in Sweden. He's an atheist.

Guess if all scientific conferences from now on will be moved to Europe and Asia, just to minimise the hassles?

Great going Trump. This is truly an idiocracy

BTW, interesting fact. Iranian citizenship isn't optional. You can't reject Iranian citizenship. My friend does not have an Iranian passport. Since he can't go there for legal reasons. So he shows up in the lists of its citizens. So he can't do anything about it

Well then, here's the solution - the Iranian government just needs to grant citizenship to Donald J Trump and his entire cabinet. Then they are at least contained within the United States, as they will not be allowed back if they ever leave.

 

[DrZoidberg]

An Iranian academic researcher in law that I know doesn't know if he'll be able to go to a conference in USA. He's lived his whole life in Sweden. He's an atheist.

Guess if all scientific conferences from now on will be moved to Europe and Asia, just to minimise the hassles?

Great going Trump. This is truly an idiocracy

BTW, interesting fact. Iranian citizenship isn't optional. You can't reject Iranian citizenship. My friend does not have an Iranian passport. Since he can't go there for legal reasons. So he shows up in the lists of its citizens. So he can't do anything about it

Well then, here's the solution - the Iranian government just needs to grant citizenship to Donald J Trump and his entire cabinet. Then they are at least contained within the United States, as they will not be allowed back if they ever leave.

There's just one problem. The Iranian government is Islamo-fascist. Fascist governments are dependent on external enemies. It's the glue that keeps the rotting carcass together. Trump provides this free of charge. Iran loves this. It's only a problem for exile Iranians who don't like Iran. I also suspect that the Iranian government would prefer if no Iranian nationals visited USA and saw for themselves the great benefit of being an infidel. So this is win-win for Iran. Trump might as well be en employee of the Iranian propaganda department.

 

[Elixir]

Trump might as well be en employee of the Iranian propaganda department.

When Russia decides to consolidate all its partners, that may well be the case - literally.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Well then, here's the solution - the Iranian government just needs to grant citizenship to Donald J Trump and his entire cabinet. Then they are at least contained within the United States, as they will not be allowed back if they ever leave.

Oh, I absolutely love it!

Iran would even love it.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Well then, here's the solution - the Iranian government just needs to grant citizenship to Donald J Trump and his entire cabinet. Then they are at least contained within the United States, as they will not be allowed back if they ever leave.

There's just one problem. The Iranian government is Islamo-fascist. Fascist governments are dependent on external enemies. It's the glue that keeps the rotting carcass together. Trump provides this free of charge. Iran loves this. It's only a problem for exile Iranians who don't like Iran. I also suspect that the Iranian government would prefer if no Iranian nationals visited USA and saw for themselves the great benefit of being an infidel. So this is win-win for Iran. Trump might as well be en employee of the Iranian propaganda department.

Iran has Israel for an enemy.

 

[bilby]

Well then, here's the solution - the Iranian government just needs to grant citizenship to Donald J Trump and his entire cabinet. Then they are at least contained within the United States, as they will not be allowed back if they ever leave.

Oh, I absolutely love it!

Iran would even love it.

Better still, they could wait until His Flatulence is on his upcoming visit to the UK, and grant him citizenship while he is outside the USA, thereby effectively preventing him from returning.

 

[DrZoidberg]

There's just one problem. The Iranian government is Islamo-fascist. Fascist governments are dependent on external enemies. It's the glue that keeps the rotting carcass together. Trump provides this free of charge. Iran loves this. It's only a problem for exile Iranians who don't like Iran. I also suspect that the Iranian government would prefer if no Iranian nationals visited USA and saw for themselves the great benefit of being an infidel. So this is win-win for Iran. Trump might as well be en employee of the Iranian propaganda department.

Iran has Israel for an enemy.

Fascists need all the enemies they can get. Real enemies are better than imagined enemies

 

[barbos]

I also suspect that the Iranian government would prefer if no Iranian nationals visited USA and saw for themselves the great benefit of being an infidel. So this is win-win for Iran. Trump might as well be en employee of the Iranian propaganda department.

Iran is not a North Korea or Soviet Union in the 70s, they have internet.

 

[DrZoidberg]

I also suspect that the Iranian government would prefer if no Iranian nationals visited USA and saw for themselves the great benefit of being an infidel. So this is win-win for Iran. Trump might as well be en employee of the Iranian propaganda department.

Iran is not a North Korea or Soviet Union in the 70s, they have internet.

Iran is a bizarre mixture of a highly westernised liberal and cosmopolitan middle class (that is growing) and a backward highly religious conservative sheep shagging lower class. The poor are the equivalent of Trump supporters.

The ruling class has to constantly juggle these groups.

 

[repoman]

Nice for you to acknowledge that muslims also fuck sheep, not just backward hillbilly christians.

The poor are the equivalent of Trump supporters.

worthy of your contempt as well?

 

[DrZoidberg]

Nice for you to acknowledge that muslims also fuck sheep, not just backward hillbilly christians.

The poor are the equivalent of Trump supporters.

worthy of your contempt as well?

Yes. There's no problem a fascist mindset can solve. All solutions are overly simplistic and stupid. And they all are based on bait and switch. The object isn't to solve any problems. The object is to perpetuate the conflicts in order to maximise identity generation. With fascism all problems will only get worse.

The Ayatollah of Iran and Donald Trump might as well have been cloned. It's the same scum

Edit: ...and so are their supporters.

Understanding root causes is an explanation. Not an excuse.

 

[blastula]

If I had taken classified government documents from the classified government computer onto my own computer, I would have indeed gotten into a great deal of trouble. Because of that it is very hard to say that I am wrong.

Then, what law would you be breaking?

 

[DrZoidberg]

If I had taken classified government documents from the classified government computer onto my own computer, I would have indeed gotten into a great deal of trouble. Because of that it is very hard to say that I am wrong.

Then, what law would you be breaking?

If you work with classified information you typically sign a contract which clearly defines what you're allowed to do. When it comes to government secrets the punishments are severe. But the laws broken would be some sort of contract breach.

Could also be espionage

 

[blastula]

I want to clarify what law he thinks Clinton broke.

 

[fast]

Nice for you to acknowledge that muslims also fuck sheep, not just backward hillbilly christians.



worthy of your contempt as well?

Yes. There's no problem a fascist mindset can solve. All solutions are overly simplistic and stupid. And they all are based on bait and switch. The object isn't to solve any problems. The object is to perpetuate the conflicts in order to maximise identity generation. With fascism all problems will only get worse.

The Ayatollah of Iran and Donald Trump might as well have been cloned. It's the same scum

Edit: ...and so are their supporters.

Understanding root causes is an explanation. Not an excuse.

What identifying characteristics inform us of fascist thought or behavior?

 

[DrZoidberg]

Yes. There's no problem a fascist mindset can solve. All solutions are overly simplistic and stupid. And they all are based on bait and switch. The object isn't to solve any problems. The object is to perpetuate the conflicts in order to maximise identity generation. With fascism all problems will only get worse.

The Ayatollah of Iran and Donald Trump might as well have been cloned. It's the same scum

Edit: ...and so are their supporters.

Understanding root causes is an explanation. Not an excuse.

What identifying characteristics inform us of fascist thought or behavior?

I like Umberto Ecco's definition. He said this about Musselini. But he might as well have been talking about Trump.

In his 1995 essay "Eternal Fascism", Umberto Eco lists fourteen general properties of fascist ideology.[11] He argues that it is not possible to organise these into a coherent system, but that "it is enough that one of them be present to allow fascism to coagulate around it". He uses the term "Ur-fascism" as a generic description of different historical forms of fascism. The fourteen properties are as follows:

"The Cult of Tradition", characterized by cultural syncretism, even at the risk of internal contradiction. When all truth has already been revealed by Tradition, no new learning can occur, only further interpretation and refinement.

"The Rejection of modernism", which views the rationalistic development of Western culture since the Enlightenment as a descent into depravity. Eco distinguishes this from a rejection of superficial technological advancement, as many fascist regimes cite their industrial potency as proof of the vitality of their system.

"The Cult of Action for Action's Sake", which dictates that action is of value in itself, and should be taken without intellectual reflection. This, says Eco, is connected with anti-intellectualism and irrationalism, and often manifests in attacks on modern culture and science.
"Disagreement Is Treason" – Fascism devalues intellectual discourse and critical reasoning as barriers to action, as well as out of fear that such analysis will expose the contradictions embodied in a syncretistic faith.

"Fear of Difference", which fascism seeks to exploit and exacerbate, often in the form of racism or an appeal against foreigners and immigrants.
"Appeal to a Frustrated Middle Class", fearing economic pressure from the demands and aspirations of lower social groups.

"Obsession with a Plot" and the hyping-up of an enemy threat. This often combines an appeal to xenophobia with a fear of disloyalty and sabotage from marginalized groups living within the society (such as the German elite's 'fear' of the 1930s Jewish populace's businesses and well-doings; see also anti-Semitism). Eco also cites Pat Robertson's book The New World Order as a prominent example of a plot obsession.

Fascist societies rhetorically cast their enemies as "at the same time too strong and too weak." On the one hand, fascists play up the power of certain disfavored elites to encourage in their followers a sense of grievance and humiliation. On the other hand, fascist leaders point to the decadence of those elites as proof of their ultimate feebleness in the face of an overwhelming popular will.

"Pacifism is Trafficking with the Enemy" because "Life is Permanent Warfare" – there must always be an enemy to fight. Both fascist Germany under Hitler and Italy under Mussolini worked first to organize and clean up their respective countries and then build the war machines that they later intended to and did use, despite Germany being under restrictions of the Versailles treaty to NOT build a military force. This principle leads to a fundamental contradiction within fascism: the incompatibility of ultimate triumph with perpetual war.

"Contempt for the Weak", which is uncomfortably married to a chauvinistic popular elitism, in which every member of society is superior to outsiders by virtue of belonging to the in-group. Eco sees in these attitudes the root of a deep tension in the fundamentally hierarchical structure of fascist polities, as they encourage leaders to despise their underlings, up to the ultimate Leader who holds the whole country in contempt for having allowed him to overtake it by force.

"Everybody is Educated to Become a Hero", which leads to the embrace of a cult of death. As Eco observes, "[t]he Ur-Fascist hero is impatient to die. In his impatience, he more frequently sends other people to death."

"Machismo", which sublimates the difficult work of permanent war and heroism into the sexual sphere. Fascists thus hold "both disdain for women and intolerance and condemnation of nonstandard sexual habits, from chastity to homosexuality."

"Selective Populism" – The People, conceived monolithically, have a Common Will, distinct from and superior to the viewpoint of any individual. As no mass of people can ever be truly unanimous, the Leader holds himself out as the interpreter of the popular will (though truly he dictates it). Fascists use this concept to delegitimize democratic institutions they accuse of "no longer represent[ing] the Voice of the People."

"Newspeak" – Fascism employs and promotes an impoverished vocabulary in order to limit critical reasoning.