"Me Too" Judge Roy Moore

[Derec]

prudishness,

The left is quickly catching up on that count it seems.

 

[Derec]

I thought the whole point was that Joseph never touched her?

Perpetual virginity of Mary is a Catholic doctrine.
And even the "virgin Mary" concept itself is based on a mistranslation/misinterpretation of Isaiah 7. There are some scholars who think that the author of GMatthew did not even intend to imply that the conception was supernatural or that Mary was a virgin.

On the other hand, Yahweh was infinitely older than Mary; Now that's what you would call an unreasonable age gap.

 

[Derec]

I agree. Sounds credible. Also, the others were young when he went after them:

The other ones were of legal age though. One was even a full adult. So to lump all four stories together is pretty disingenuous. As is saying that being interested in girls 14-18 makes you a pedophile. The proper term is ephebophilia, and that only if it is the primary sexual interest.

 

[Derec]

I suspect he rapped himself in his religious beliefs to shield him from his baser instincts.

You mean he rapped on his own (judicial) chamber door, or do you mean this is actually from a rap battle like Eminem in 8 Mile?

"... and if I lose this rap battle, I still have one weapon left."

 

[Harry Bosch]

prudishness,

The left is quickly catching up on that count it seems.

Does it bother you in the least about how hypocrital Moore is? I mean he's made his entire career at judging the morality of others. And look at what he does when he thinks nonone is looking.

 

[Derec]

The 14 year old was too intimidated to protest.

That assumes that this not only happened but happened exactly as she says.
If this was a 14 year old boy and a 32 year old woman, nobody would think it impossible that the boy was initiating or reciprocating sexual contact. in fact, quite a few people would be atta-boying him. But with girls many think it impossible, as if some sort of binary switch gets flipped at 16 or 18 years of age, depending on the state (maybe they also believe in Pillow Pants).
This is even more baffling since girls tend to achieve sexual maturity earlier than boys.

After the incident where a 32 year old man removed her shirt and pants and fondled her and tried to get her to fondle him, she managed to avoid being alone with him after that.

Even if we take her word for it, they fooled around, she became uncomfortable, asked him to drive her home, he did without forcing himself on her. The other girls (all of legal age btw) also said that he did not force himself on them. Yes, going after a 14 year old was wrong. But it is still a minor transgression all things considered and I do not think it should matter 40 years later.

Granted he did not use physical force. I don't discount this: there was not an actual rape. Best case scenario he was an emotionally immature man who was too intimidated as/or socially awkward to approach a woman who was age appropriate or even of legal age. The question is why should we believe he has matured since then in any way.

The society forgives much worse things. Unless they involve sex. Just a weird consequence of the extreme prudishness of our society.

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Does it bother you in the least about how hypocrital Moore is?

Not really. I was already against him, and would have voted against him if I lived in Alabama even if he never had sex with anybody but his wife.

 

[Derec]

1. "arbitrary law" is immaterial. It IS the law and Moore was attorney (and then a judge and now wants to be a Senator). He, even more than people like you, has a duty to uphold the law.

Sure, but it was 38 years ago. Columbia university thought that being a terrorist who a) wanted to bomb Columbia university and b) participated in a bank robbery and murder of three men is not a big deal and not a qualifier to hire Kathy Boudin as professor. Fooling around with a 14 year old is a much less serious transgression than that, so why should it matter 38 years later if terrorism, bank robbery and murder do not?

2. Three women, plus contemporaneous confirmations for each of the three women.

The other ones were all of legal age though and all said that he never forced himself on them.

3. Not a "witch hunt"

Of course it is.

 

[Playball40]

So it seems like it was a consensual relationship, and the only thing wrong was that she was a year and a half or so younger than the arbitrary legal threshold. Looking at the  age of consent map, it looks like the young prosecutor and even younger Miss Leigh would have been fine in much of Latin America and even Europe. And as far as the other two girls, they were legal, so no problem there.

It is also predicated on the woman telling the entire truth. I am not saying she is lying, but we do not know one way of the other. She could also be mostly telling the truth, but embellishing key points, such as her level of aggressiveness.

This #metoo nonsense is putting Democrats in danger of becoming more puritan than Republicans. Everything is "harassment" or "assault" these days.

Consensual? At 14? And he's in his early 30's? You are just disgusting, vile and sick if you think this is acceptable in any form.

 

[Derec]

Unsurprisingly, statutory rape of a female is trivial in Derec's world.

Yes, I think it is. I think treating consensual sex as tantamount to rape just because of an arbitrary age limit is pretty crazy. Sexuality is not a switch that gets turned on based on some legistators' whim.

I mean, if sex-negative state legislators in some states decided to make a bipartisan bill declaring 25 to be the new age of consent, would that render 24 year olds actually unable to consent? Actual ability to consent is different than legal ability to consent.

Non-responsive - you don't know what people remember or have as evidence.

Neither do you. And you have not addressed the point that 38 years is a long time and that memories fade over decades. What do you remember from 1979 and how accurate are your recollections of that year?

I don't have to prove anything.

Guilty until proven innocent?

No, bringing robbing banks and murdering police is babbling. Roy Moore's character is a legitimate concern to the voters of Alabama. It is up to them to decide what is trivial or important. Neither mine nor yours are. But feel free to continue to trivial these potential disgusting revelations.

No, it is a comparison how old offenses affect perception of character.

I think participating in bombings in the 70s and bank robbery/murder in 1982 affects one's character far more (orders of magnitude more actually) than allegations of low-level sexual misconduct in 1979. And yet, when Kathy Boudin was hired by Columbia, many have defended her character, including on this board. Why the double standard?

 

[Playball40]

Sorry Derec. But you are WRONG WRONG WRONG here. 14 might be going through puberty but it is FAR from complete for most girls. And I know MANY, myself included who didn't even start their period until 14 or later.

Roy Moore was a pedophile.

No, he was not.

14 years old is well past puberty. Pedophilia is sexual attraction to prepubescent children.
And she is not even alleging that they fucked. So, this is much ado about nothing.

Suck it up. It is going to be interesting to watch this unfold and if it will sink the old bastard's election effort. That will be December 12. How much sleaze will the Alabama electorate tolerate?

I dislike Roy Moore's politics, especially his theocratic leanings. However, this witch hunt makes him more sympathetic.

 

[Derec]

Consensual? At 14? And he's in his early 30's? You are just disgusting, vile and sick if you think this is acceptable in any form.

It would be legal in many countries, including countries as diverse as Italy, Brazil and China. I agree that going after a 14 year old when you are >30 is a bit sleazy, but it did happen 38 years ago. Allegedly.
People have been forgiven for doing far worse. Such as terrorism.

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Sorry Derec. But you are WRONG WRONG WRONG here. 14 might be going through puberty but it is FAR from complete for most girls. And I know MANY, myself included who didn't even start their period until 14 or later.

Then you are a late bloomer. I think about 12 or so is average for girls. And look at the other girls he was pursuing at the same time. 16 and 18. It would not fit the pattern if Leigh was a late bloomer like you.

 

[Mumbles]

I think it's highly likely that Moore will end up in the Senate despite any level of proof that he's a child molester.

Ya, that's the thing. It truly doesn't matter. He just needs to spend a month saying "fake news" and "liberal witch hunt" and his margin of victory will go from 10 points to 15 points, no matter what the evidence is or how many half-eaten children's skulls are found in his fridge. It's more important to voters that their side win than anything about the nature of that victory.

Why would he bother doing that, when anyone with sense won't buy it, and his base would just blame the girl right from the start for "seducing" him?

 

[RavenSky]

Sure, but it was 38 years ago. Columbia university thought that being a terrorist who a) wanted to bomb Columbia university and b) participated in a bank robbery and murder of three men is not a big deal and not a qualifier to hire Kathy Boudin as professor. Fooling around with a 14 year old is a much less serious transgression than that, so why should it matter 38 years later if terrorism, bank robbery and murder do not?.

I am so sorry! I didn't realize that Roy Moore has already served a prison sentence for what he did to the 14-year old girl!

 

[Derec]

I am so sorry! I didn't realize that Roy Moore has already served a prison sentence for what he did to the 14-year old girl!

Serving a prison sentence or not has fuck-all to do with how what people did in late 70s and early 80s reflects on their character today.

 

[RavenSky]

What I find interesting is how quickly so many Republicans have suggested (in carefully worded statements) that Moore should step out of the race.

I would not be the least bit surprised if the Trump group are ultimately behind this story about Moore in the first place. Trump did not support Moore in the primary, and we know Trump does not like to lose.

Luther Strange (Trump's guy) is already talking about doing a "write-in" campaign if Moore steps out.

 

[RavenSky]

I am so sorry! I didn't realize that Roy Moore has already served a prison sentence for what he did to the 14-year old girl!

Serving a prison sentence or not has fuck-all to do with how what people did in late 70s and early 80s reflects on their character today.

Yes, serving her prison sentence DOES matter. She is a free citizen now.

As for Roy Moore's "character", he was and still is a hypocritical, vile, repulsive, far-right-wing dominionist.

 

[laughing dog]

Yes, I think it is...

Wow.

Neither do you. And you have not addressed the point that 38 years is a long time and that memories fade over decades. What do you remember from 1979 and how accurate are your recollections of that year?

I am not the one saying this is trivial - you are. My ability to recollect is irrelevant. What is relevant is the available information that can be obtained now. The difference here is that in contrast to you I am not concluding there is no information in order to defend a potential rapist. Unlike you, I am willing to wait and see what, if anything, develops.

Guilty until proven innocent?

You are babbling again. Unlike you, I am willing to wait and see what, if anything, develops.

No, it is a comparison how old offenses affect perception of character.

Bullshit.

I think participating in bombings in the 70s and bank robbery/murder in 1982 affects one's character far more (orders of magnitude more actually) than allegations of low-level sexual misconduct in 1979. And yet, when Kathy Boudin was hired by Columbia, many have defended her character, including on this board. Why the double standard?

FFS, unlike Moore, Kathy Boudin has not made a career as a moralistic judge. Unlike Moore, Kathy Boudin is not running for office. Unlike Moor, Kathy Boudin has been convicted of her crimes and served her sentences.

Furthermore, your argument is based on false premise. This is not about what AFFECTS character, it is about REVEALING character. If these allegations are true, they reveal more unsavoriness about Moore's character. On the other hand, Boudin served her time and while serving her time, furthered her education and is now endeavoring to educate people for the future.

But I do withdraw my characterization of your argument as babble, because it is so fundamentally flawed and stupid that to describe it as mere "babble" insults actual babble.

 

[Derec]

I would not be the least bit surprised if the Trump group are ultimately behind this story about Moore in the first place.

And that doesn't make you suspicious about the story's veracity?

Luther Strange (Trump's guy) is already talking about doing a "write-in" campaign if Moore steps out.

That would virtually guarantee the seat for the Democrat. The best strategy for saving this seat for Republicans would be "full steam forward and damn the torpedoes".

 

[starwater]

Consensual? At 14? And he's in his early 30's? You are just disgusting, vile and sick if you think this is acceptable in any form.

It would be legal in many countries, including countries as diverse as Italy, Brazil and China. I agree that going after a 14 year old when you are >30 is a bit sleazy, but it did happen 38 years ago. Allegedly.
People have been forgiven for doing far worse. Such as terrorism.

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Sorry Derec. But you are WRONG WRONG WRONG here. 14 might be going through puberty but it is FAR from complete for most girls. And I know MANY, myself included who didn't even start their period until 14 or later.

Then you are a late bloomer. I think about 12 or so is average for girls. And look at the other girls he was pursuing at the same time. 16 and 18. It would not fit the pattern if Leigh was a late bloomer like you.

So what makes you an expert on girls and puberty? You are very WRONG.

 

[ZiprHead]

I suspect he rapped himself in his religious beliefs to shield him from his baser instincts.

You mean he rapped on his own (judicial) chamber door, or do you mean this is actually from a rap battle like Eminem in 8 Mile?

Sorry. Both the W and the U keys on my laptop keyboard are flaky.