• Welcome to the new Internet Infidels Discussion Board, formerly Talk Freethought.

Nazi sympathizer profiled in New York Times loses job

Don2 (Don1 Revised) said:
Underseer said:
https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/11/29/us/nazi-sympathizer-profiled-by-the-times-loses-his-job.html

Ha ha!

I can't wait to hear all the conservatives complain that this is counts as "persecution" of white people. Aren't we attacking the free speech rights of Nazi sympathizers?
Click to expand...

I am completely unfamiliar with this news, including things ronburgundy is talking about. Even so, if I were a restaurant owner I would not want a genocidal maniac serving possibly poisoned or shat-in food to minorities at my restaurant. I guess that means i am part of the regressive the left or whatever to some people who don't recognize basic tenets of capitalism or other rights such as freedom from being poisoned.
Click to expand...

No, your part of the regressive left if, like Underseer and pridefall, you cheer when death threats are used against anyone associated with a person in order to coerce those others to punish someone for their speech.
You are part of the regressive left if you fail to grasp that the principle of free speech is not limited to preventing government coercion against speech, but also ensuring the content of speech plays no role in determining who can use public spaces to engage in discourse.
Thus you are part of the fascist regressive left if you support tactics designed to prevent others from being heard in a public forum rather than pro free speech efforts to counter those ideas.
 
Fire Neo Nazis. If you are an Evangelical on the extreme get rid of Catholics and Mormons.

It is the definition of slippery slope.

A business has no business about your politics. On the flip side freedom of speech and any kind of politicking or religious activism can be limited on a company's property.

From the reports out of California, limiting free speech to politically correct on campus is dangerous. It is sounding like Cuba or Venezuela or China.
 
steve_bank said:
From the reports out of California, limiting free speech to politically correct on campus is dangerous. It is sounding like Cuba or Venezuela or China.
Click to expand...
the complete inability of the politically right mode of thinking to be able to grasp the fundamental difference between governmental oppression of speech and a single venue telling assholes to shut the fuck up never ceases to astound me.
 
ronburgundy said:
Note that even this guy's firing involved violations of the principle of free speech. People made threats of violence against him, his family, and the restaurant. Besides being criminal (I hope they are tracked down and imprisoned), it is against the principle of free speech to use threats of violence or physically prevent others from speaking or third parties from allowing them to speak.
The fact that Underseer and pridefall saw no problem with this shows how eroded the value and understanding of the principle of free speech has become among some on left.
Click to expand...

OK, fine. If I discovered I had accidentally hired a Nazi, I'd find a way to get rid of him. And nevermind "free speech". He (it's almost always "he") would not be "a good fit" in the team. My team, my ball, my field. Go home.
Also, I am Canadian. Our Charter of Rights and Freedoms trumps free speech. Free speech is not permitted when it's hate speech. FWIW, we don't like guns either. Boom go two Amendments.
 
ronburgundy said:
No, your part of the regressive left if, like Underseer and pridefall, you cheer when death threats are used against anyone associated with a person in order to coerce those others to punish someone for their speech.
Click to expand...
first of all, i'm not part of anything - i'm apolitical, i just find the subject interesting.
secondly, it's not my fault if you're too stupid to be able to tell the difference between punished for speech and having a platform for speech revoked, because the two are not the same.


You are part of the regressive left if you fail to grasp that the principle of free speech is not limited to preventing government coercion against speech, but also ensuring the content of speech plays no role in determining who can use public spaces to engage in discourse.
Click to expand...
the latter here is patently and obviously bullshit on its face to the extent that i am honestly shocked you would even try and state something so ridiculously idiotic and expect anyone who hears you say it to not immediately assume you're suffering a traumatic head injury.

the use of public space for discourse is mitigated *all the time* and that's even when it can be agreed upon what constitutes "public space", because i'm not seeing a public space being used in opposition to free speech here.

Thus you are part of the fascist regressive left if you support tactics designed to prevent others from being heard in a public forum rather than pro free speech efforts to counter those ideas.
Click to expand...
oooooo now the left is both regressive *and* fascist! sure you don't want to cover all your bases and call them the regressive fascist communist authoritarian neocon pedophile zombie 9/11 left?
after all, not letting some dipshit come scream lies at a college campus is exactly as bad as literally being the nuclear bomb that was dropped on hiroshima, right?

and since i'm giving you the benefit of the doubt that you aren't a complete simpleton and instead skimmed my posts without bothering to actually read their content, i'll remind you that i don't support the idea of a college campus or its students revoking speakers and i have never posted anything remotely in support of that - i said that the act of trying to prevent those people from speaking is a form of free speech, and that denying those people the right to express their opinion that so-and-so shouldn't speak is as much of a denial of free speech as preventing so-and-so from speaking.
i was pointing out the blatantly hypocrisy of the people prolapsing their vaginas in their efforts to cry about how anne coulter didn't get to tell a bunch of 19 year olds that liberals are baby eating nigger jews because of how an organized student protest got her time slot revoked, since both of those actions are equally expressions of free speech.
 
prideandfall said:
steve_bank said:
From the reports out of California, limiting free speech to politically correct on campus is dangerous. It is sounding like Cuba or Venezuela or China.
Click to expand...
the complete inability of the politically right mode of thinking to be able to grasp the fundamental difference between governmental oppression of speech and a single venue telling assholes to shut the fuck up never ceases to astound me.
Click to expand...

The liberals are not any better. The left is now castigating people for 'cultural appropriation'. In Ca a couple of whites ran a food truck selling Mexican food. They were hounded out of business on social media. Utter liberal nonsense.Every year the silly Black Blok comes to Seattle in their cute little black costumes, throwing rocks and firebombs, carrying homemade weapons. The extremes outside of the left-right center are flip sides of the same coin.


During the Cold War there was an above ground communist party. They fielded political candidates. Overt communist voices were heard, there was nothing for them to take root in beyond a small group.
 
prideandfall said:
steve_bank said:
From the reports out of California, limiting free speech to politically correct on campus is dangerous. It is sounding like Cuba or Venezuela or China.
Click to expand...
the complete inability of the politically right mode of thinking to be able to grasp the fundamental difference between governmental oppression of speech and a single venue telling assholes to shut the fuck up never ceases to astound me.
Click to expand...

And it wasn't even the venue telling them to stfu. It was other people exercising their free speech.

Berkeley was prepared to spend millions for the extra security needed to host the Free Speech Week, only to discover the whole thing was a sham event staged by alt-right trolls. No one has an obligation to feed trolls, and trolls don't have a constitutional right to be fed. If Berkeley is now telling them to take their shit show somewhere else, that's as it should be. If the alt-right has a problem with that, they should take it up with the guys who screwed over Berkeley one time too many.
 
prideandfall said:
Harry_Bosch said:
How is blocking someone's speech "free speech"?
Click to expand...
based on your fundamental misunderstanding of the US first amendment and what "free speech" in the context of america really means.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

a college is not congress and so whatever they do is not an action covered under the first amendment, and students exercising their free speech to express their desire to not have some fuckwad come to the campus and speak and having the administrating body hear them and respond to their desire is free speech in action.
"free speech" means you can say what you what and the government won't arrest you for it... it doesn't mean you're entitled to a platform from which to spew your stupidity, and it doesn't mean other people are obligated to listen to you.
it never ceases to astound me how much difficulty people in the US have with comprehending this. do you need this in comic form to make it easier?

free_speech.png


The best way to expose crazy right wingers is to let them speak IMO...
Click to expand...
cool, so let them speak - that's why there is no law against them speaking. they can go stand on a street corner by the gas station with a bullhorn and scream about the liberal jews all day long.
Click to expand...

There are "government" colleges... those that take state money.. there are a tremendous number of those. I attended one. Their actions certainly are limited by the 1st Amendment.
 
dendrast said:
ronburgundy said:
Note that even this guy's firing involved violations of the principle of free speech. People made threats of violence against him, his family, and the restaurant. Besides being criminal (I hope they are tracked down and imprisoned), it is against the principle of free speech to use threats of violence or physically prevent others from speaking or third parties from allowing them to speak.
The fact that Underseer and pridefall saw no problem with this shows how eroded the value and understanding of the principle of free speech has become among some on left.
Click to expand...

OK, fine. If I discovered I had accidentally hired a Nazi, I'd find a way to get rid of him. And nevermind "free speech". He (it's almost always "he") would not be "a good fit" in the team. My team, my ball, my field. Go home.
Also, I am Canadian. Our Charter of Rights and Freedoms trumps free speech. Free speech is not permitted when it's hate speech. FWIW, we don't like guns either. Boom go two Amendments.
Click to expand...

Canadians don't like guns? The country with like the most hunting in the world.. doesn't;t like guns?
They love their guns!!... they just don't MAKE love to them like they do in America.
 
ronburgundy said:
Don2 (Don1 Revised) said:
Underseer said:
https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/11/29/us/nazi-sympathizer-profiled-by-the-times-loses-his-job.html

Ha ha!

I can't wait to hear all the conservatives complain that this is counts as "persecution" of white people. Aren't we attacking the free speech rights of Nazi sympathizers?
Click to expand...

I am completely unfamiliar with this news, including things ronburgundy is talking about. Even so, if I were a restaurant owner I would not want a genocidal maniac serving possibly poisoned or shat-in food to minorities at my restaurant. I guess that means i am part of the regressive the left or whatever to some people who don't recognize basic tenets of capitalism or other rights such as freedom from being poisoned.
Click to expand...

No, your part of the regressive left if, like Underseer and pridefall, you cheer when death threats are used against anyone associated with a person in order to coerce those others to punish someone for their speech.
You are part of the regressive left if you fail to grasp that the principle of free speech is not limited to preventing government coercion against speech, but also ensuring the content of speech plays no role in determining who can use public spaces to engage in discourse.
Thus you are part of the fascist regressive left if you support tactics designed to prevent others from being heard in a public forum rather than pro free speech efforts to counter those ideas.
Click to expand...
Nazis had their chance at a forum. They fucked it up with their whole extermination of over ten million civilians thing.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom