Michael Brown Shooting and Aftermath

[Derec]

Which is why it should not have been made public to anyone and should have been presented to the grand jury at the trial.

Grand juries are not part of the trial. They decide whether a suspect is to be indicted. It is the petit juries that participate in trials.
But in any case, I do not see why we should wait until the trial to learn such pertinent information about Brown. Especially since we had been, similar to Trayvon Martin case, subjected to attempts to make him as sympathetic as possible. Even one of the photos, the one in the arcade with him wearing Beats headphones, seems several years old.

Releasing that information in a press conference serves no purpose except an attempt to shape public opinion and attract political support (which they desperately need right now after their horrendous performance in the protests). It shows that they don't actually care about the facts or the serving of justice, only appearances

Public opinion has already been shaped by Michael Brown's supporters = "college bound" (in reality just an HVAC training course), "gentle giant" (giant perhaps, but anything but gentle) etc. What's wrong with correcting some of the misconceptions with actual facts. Why should his supporters have a monopoly on shaping public opinion?

 

[RavenSky]

I have a question about the images I've seen of video of the robbery and of Michael Brown dead in the street. I cannot tell if the clothing IS the same. In the robbery video, the pants are short in length and he's wearing a red cap. The incident report mentions specifically long khaki shorts, white t shirt, yellow socks and red Cards cap. In the images I've seen of Brown after the shooting, I cannot tell the length of the pants, socks and I do not see a red cap. The quality of images for both scenes is not good or maybe I am just old but even full screen, I cannot get that much detail. Also do not see stolen cigars. I know that Johnson has admitted that Brown took cigars but I don't see them in any of the video.

Johnson admitting to the robbery pretty much seals the deal and makes amateur photo analysis superfluous. But just two comments if I may:
- the baseball cap would probably had been dislodged from his head during the attack on/scuffle with the policeman. Not surprising that he doesn't have it on.
- length of pants. On the photos of Brown's body you can see his underwear (dark blue) meaning that his pants slipped past his buttocks. That would have made the pant legs appear longer of course, looking more like capris than shorts.

Sealed what deal, Derec? The killing of Michael Brown in the middle of the street after he had already surrendered in an unrelated situation?

 

[Derec]

It makes it more acceptable to shoot a suspect multiple times after they are no danger to anyone and they've put their hands up in surrender?

That part of the story is still in dispute.

I find it interesting that we have two separate cases of black men being shot to death by police. In one case, the shooting was justified by you because the man was moving towards police. In this one you seem to be justifying the shooting because the man was moving away from the police officer.

If you are talking about Jonathan Ferrell he not only moved toward the police officer but came very close to him, ignoring verbal commands and a taser round being discharged at him. He was definitely close enough to reach the officer's weapon.
Btw, one similarity between the two cases is that both were apparently rather imposing physical specimens.

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Sealed what deal, Derec?

Seals the deal as far as his identity in the robbery photo.

 

[RavenSky]

That part of the story is still in dispute.

So you are claiming that multiple witnesses and scene photos are lying and that Michael Brown had not moved away from the police vehicle?

 

[repoman]

Ravensky, did you read the link that I put out in my recent post? The witness said that Brown doubled back and ran towards Wilson.

 

[Toni]

I have a question about the images I've seen of video of the robbery and of Michael Brown dead in the street. I cannot tell if the clothing IS the same. In the robbery video, the pants are short in length and he's wearing a red cap. The incident report mentions specifically long khaki shorts, white t shirt, yellow socks and red Cards cap. In the images I've seen of Brown after the shooting, I cannot tell the length of the pants, socks and I do not see a red cap. The quality of images for both scenes is not good or maybe I am just old but even full screen, I cannot get that much detail. Also do not see stolen cigars. I know that Johnson has admitted that Brown took cigars but I don't see them in any of the video.

Johnson admitting to the robbery pretty much seals the deal and makes amateur photo analysis superfluous. But just two comments if I may:
- the baseball cap would probably had been dislodged from his head during the attack on/scuffle with the policeman. Not surprising that he doesn't have it on.
- length of pants. On the photos of Brown's body you can see his underwear (dark blue) meaning that his pants slipped past his buttocks. That would have made the pant legs appear longer of course, looking more like capris than shorts.

The hat should be visible in the post mortem footage. My point is less about actually IDing the person in the robbery video than it is about the police reports and timelines. Unless someone from the store identified Brown by name (which should have been made clear in the report) there should have been no mention by name. As it stands, what is coming out of the police reads as a clumsy justification to the unjustified shooting of an unarmed teenager.

Re: HVAC program. Personally I think he chose a good and useful line of work, one that would have provided needed services and the opportunity to provide well for himself.

 

[fromderinside]

Ravensky, did you read the link that I put out in my recent post? The witness said that Brown doubled back and ran towards Wilson.

What would you do after the guy with the gun began shooting at you, hitting you, missing you, but shooting at you. My instincts tell me to get at the gun being used against me.

Assume for a moment that the boy turned and raised his hands, but,cop had already decided to begin shooting. the the witness say the boy run against the bullets toward the cop. Did he try to surrender? Did he act in desperation when he wassn't going to be allowed to surrender? The background conversations could have been dubbed for all we know.

Way too many variables to even consider the boy was attacking the cop.

 

[repoman]

those are good points, and I do hope that the witness overheard in the video can make a statement in a safe neutral location, free of coercion.

I think that for any time a police officer shoots a civilian the investigation should be taken away from local or maybe even state police.

 

[Jayjay]

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/jay-nixon-declares-state-emergency-curfew-ferguson

Why impose a curfew at all? It appears to be a tactic designed to allow police to crack down again.

...a visibly shaken Nixon, who faced outspoken and frustrated community members at a press conference Saturday afternoon. “If we are to achieve justice we must first have and maintain peace. This is a test. The eyes of the world are watching.”

Yes, the world is watching. You (Gov. Nixon) and the police forces in Ferguson are failing miserably.

I think it's a bit of an exaggeration to say the world is watching either way. Plenty of other entertainment in Ukraine, Gaza, Iraq, ...

 

[Toni]

those are good points, and I do hope that the witness overheard in the video can make a statement in a safe neutral location, free of coercion.

I think that for any time a police officer shoots a civilian the investigation should be taken away from local or maybe even state police.

And that any such testimony be taken along with the other eyewitness testimony which states that Brown had his arms up and does not say he was running towards the police officer.

If the unnamed person on the video is correct, was Brown coming towards the police officer in surrender? Charging him?

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That part of the story is still in dispute.

I find it interesting that we have two separate cases of black men being shot to death by police. In one case, the shooting was justified by you because the man was moving towards police. In this one you seem to be justifying the shooting because the man was moving away from the police officer.

If you are talking about Jonathan Ferrell he not only moved toward the police officer but came very close to him, ignoring verbal commands and a taser round being discharged at him. He was definitely close enough to reach the officer's weapon.
Btw, one similarity between the two cases is that both were apparently rather imposing physical specimens.

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Sealed what deal, Derec?

Seals the deal as far as his identity in the robbery photo.

Specimens? Really?

You truly are beyond belief.

 

[repoman]

I am not defending what anyone says in general, but I have used to phrase "imposing specimen" or similar a few times before. I don't see it having a racial connotation.

 

[Derec]

Specimens? Really?

You truly are beyond belief.

What's wrong with the word I've been using?

 

[thebeave]

Yeah, "specimen" doesn't really mean much. I've seen women gawk at a men and call him a "fine specimen". Can't believe how edgy everyone is these days about certain words. Thug, slut, bossy, retard and now "specimen". Where does it end? I guess we can still say "fuck"?

 

[Crazy Eddie]

Also in the police report of the robbery, Brown is identified by NAME. (p. 10 of police report (http://www.scribd.com/doc/236914260/Michael-Brown-Police-Report)

How was that possible?

Already covered that in a previous post. The identification comes from the supplemental report that was filed two days after Brown was shot, where the investigating officer reviewed the video and is now claiming that the person he sees in the video is the same person who was shot on Sunday.

Did the clerk or witness identify him by name to the police?

He did not.

 

[Underseer]

Even if the police's story is completely true, I don't see how this is anything other than murder. If he tried to get a weapon and then failed, he wasn't a threat to anybody when he was thirty feet away from them and unarmed.

You're just another liberal who hates the cops and hates our freedom!

 

[Crazy Eddie]

I do not see why we should wait until the trial to learn such pertinent information about Brown.

Because WE aren't the ones who have to hand down an indictment for the officers in question if and when it comes to that. There's no reason to release that information to the PUBLIC except to try and salvage the department's reputation.

Public opinion has already been shaped by Michael Brown's supporters

Public opinion is shaped by MANY things, not least of which is the actions of the police department in response to the protestors, and also the public's own experiences with police brutality.

Why should his supporters have a monopoly on shaping public opinion?

Because public opinion isn't a judicial process and cannot acquit or convict the officer or the department.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

The conversation of a witness in this video is interesting, suggestive but NOT convincing along the policeman's story.

http://www.ijreview.com/2014/08/168698-eyewitness-recalls-important-detail-background-video-mins-ferguson-shooting/

Yeah, it pretty much makes it sound like the usual "failure to comply" shooting death. That has been a relatively common problem for suspects -- particularly black suspects -- for at least the last 30 years:

"That large scary black man isn't cooperating! I told him to get down on his knees, he raised his arms higher! I told him again, and he started shouting about how he didn't do anything... Why won't he listen to me!" * bang bang*

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The conversation of a witness in this video is interesting, suggestive but NOT convincing along the policeman's story.

http://www.ijreview.com/2014/08/168698-eyewitness-recalls-important-detail-background-video-mins-ferguson-shooting/

Interesting.

Sounds like one of these guys used to settling things by force and not recognizing that the gun changes the whole equation.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I want to step outside of the racial issue for a second and say that it is the lack of evidence that makes this story catch fire in the imagination of the public. Same as the missing Malaysian Airlines plane. With the mystery you can make it whatever you want it to be that happened.

There are much better PROVEN cases of police brutality on blacks in America that for some reason don't galvanize a response. It is a shame they are not being used instead.

Using the Michael Brown case is having a "boy who cried wolf" effect on potentially sympathetic whites.

It's beginning to look like another example of white "perp", black "victim" is automatically racism--it doesn't matter if the facts say otherwise.

 

[George S]

I want to step outside of the racial issue for a second and say that it is the lack of evidence that makes this story catch fire in the imagination of the public. Same as the missing Malaysian Airlines plane. With the mystery you can make it whatever you want it to be that happened.

There are much better PROVEN cases of police brutality on blacks in America that for some reason don't galvanize a response. It is a shame they are not being used instead.

Using the Michael Brown case is having a "boy who cried wolf" effect on potentially sympathetic whites.

It's beginning to look like another example of white "perp", black "victim" is automatically racism--it doesn't matter if the facts say otherwise.

Perhaps the racist pants don't fit.