#BlackinAmerica

[Arctish]

Looks like Starbucks is making amends by giving a free cup of coffee to all black people. Good on them!:

Giving free coffee based on race is prima facie racist behavior... And people on here keep insisting there is no such thing as black privilege. I can't go into Starbucks and demand free product just because somebody white got themselves arrested at a Starbucks somewhere.

Too bad your racism sucked you into believing a #FakeNews story

http://www.cleveland19.com/story/37...r-people-of-african-american-heritage-is-fake

NBC News has published a more detailed article on the fake coupon and the trolls responsible:

Trolls spread hateful fake Starbucks coupon for 'people of color only'

A fake Starbucks coupon offering free coffee to “people of color only” to say “we’re sorry” is the latest salvo in an ongoing meme warfare campaign that exploits trending news topics to spread messages of hate and divisiveness from the fringes into the mainstream consciousness.

The counterfeit coffee coupon, created to further stoke outrage after two black men were arrested in a Philadelphia Starbucks for trespassing, purported to start a “dialogue” to address racial bias. Its origins are more insidious.

On April 17 at 10:36 a.m., a member of the notorious anonymous message board 4chan posted a new image, launching what it dubbed “Operation Mermaid.”

“Here's a fake Starbucks coupon for marginalized folks,” said the poster, who said it would be “fun” if people tried to redeem it at the coffee chain. “You know what to do.”

Like-minded members replied back with hoots of laughter, racist and homophobic slurs, and offered design tweaks to make the offer look more official, such as applying the Starbucks corporate font or optimizing the coupon for display on mobile. “To be credible, it needs one of those things for mobile phones,” one poster said. Another obliged, posting a QR code that translated to the n-word.

 

[RavenSky]

Seriously, I'm on the fence on this.

Systemic and institutional racial bias is a serious problem, and I'm all for addressing it. I'm just not sold on this incidence being evidence of systemic bias on the part of Starbucks as a company.

I agree. I am certain that their policies do not in any way encourage or condone what this manager did. And there is no amount of training nor screening that will ensure that no racist ever gets hired. But I do think that the steps they are currently taking are good.

I could be wrong, but it seems more like a case of bias on the part of a handful of employees in one store... maybe a few stores. But it doesn't seem as if it's a behavior endemic to Starbucks as a whole. Which makes this whole 'all our stores close and get diversity training

I think the training itself won't do anything - racists be racists and generally lack the self awareness to admit they are racists - but going through the exercise makes the very clear statement that whatever racists slip through in the hiring process will NOT be tolerated if they exhibit racist behavior.

and all black people get a free cup of coffee' seem like a bit of an overreaction.

That was #FakeNews

Am I missing more of the history here that would make Starbucks' response seem more appropriate?

Just their history of being uber-liberal perhaps

- - - Updated - - -

TWO MINUTES.

That is how long the men were in the store before having the police called on them for "trespassing"

 

[Derec]

That was #FakeNews

But didn't that guy score a free coffee because of his race? Now that may not be official policy, but he did manage to white guilt that blonde chick into giving him some reparations.

TWO MINUTES.

That is how long the men were in the store before having the police called on them for "trespassing"

Which means either the manager chick was major league racist or the two did something to make a nuisance of themselves within 120 seconds. Unfortunately, these bystander videos always start in medias res.

 

[Derec]

Too bad your racism sucked you into believing a #FakeNews story

http://www.cleveland19.com/story/37...r-people-of-african-american-heritage-is-fake

a) I am not racist. I am just annoyed by racist double standards in our society.
b) I wasn't going by the coupon story, but by the video of that dreadlocked guy, Hotep Jesus or something, getting a very real free coffee from the blonde barista.

 

[RavenSky]

That was #FakeNews

But didn't that guy score a free coffee because of his race? Now that may not be official policy, but he did manage to white guilt that blonde chick into giving him some reparations.

Seriously Derec... just stop. You fell for a bullshit fake news story, and ramped it up into one of your typical anti-black rants. Just accept it and try to do better next time.

TWO MINUTES.

That is how long the men were in the store before having the police called on them for "trespassing"

Which means either the manager chick was major league racist or the two did something to make a nuisance of themselves within 120 seconds. Unfortunately, these bystander videos always start in medias res.

Well, since every other person in the store said that the men did NOT do "something to make a nuisance of themselves within 120 seconds", it looks like your vile little racist bent is just making shit up yet again.

YOU are exactly the type of person Starbucks is trying to reach with their diversity training.

 

[RavenSky]

a) I am not racist. I am just annoyed by racist double standards in our society.

You mean the racist double-standard that has two black men arrested for waiting for their friend for a whole TWO MINUTES before ordering?

Yeah... didn't think so.

 

[Derec]

a) I am not racist. I am just annoyed by racist double standards in our society.

You mean the racist double-standard that has two black men arrested for waiting for their friend for a whole TWO MINUTES before ordering?

Yeah... didn't think so.

Two wrongs do not make a right. What about double standard of excusing black racism or even pretending it doesn't exist. Of prohibiting white people from using certain words but placing no such restrictions on blacks. What about racial preferences in college admissions and hiring. What about black only colleges and professional organziations. What about multi-million dollar settlements for bagatelles (like getting kicked out of a wine tasting for being loud) or ridiculous verdicts for justified police shootings ($37 million for a woman who pointed a shotgun at police when they tried to serve a warrant) and many more.
Hell, these two guys will likely become millionaires by the time this is over. Isn't that privilege?

P.S.: Also, make up your mind. Were they waiting for a friend or a business partner?

 

[Derec]

Seriously Derec... just stop. You fell for a bullshit fake news story, and ramped it up into one of your typical anti-black rants. Just accept it and try to do better next time.

The coupons may have been fake but at least one barista was giving out free coffees based on skin color. It's on video. That part is not "fake news".

Well, since every other person in the store said that the men did NOT do "something to make a nuisance of themselves within 120 seconds", it looks like your vile little racist bent is just making shit up yet again.

YOU are exactly the type of person Starbucks is trying to reach with their diversity training.

So their diversity training is all about jumping to conclusions and a prori discounting any other explanation except "crackas be racist"?

 

[Juma]

Too bad your racism sucked you into believing a #FakeNews story

http://www.cleveland19.com/story/37...r-people-of-african-american-heritage-is-fake

a) I am not racist. I am just annoyed by racist double standards in our society.
b) I wasn't going by the coupon story, but by the video of that dreadlocked guy, Hotep Jesus or something, getting a very real free coffee from the blonde barista.

The world is comlplicated... there IS a racist double standard AND you are a racist, Derec.

 

[Derec]

AND you are a racist, Derec.

Bullshit. Also, I think accusing other posters of racism is against TOU. Of course, it's ok if you are RavenSky or one of her lackeys, like you.

 

[repoman]

Where is the assertion that the guys were in Starbucks for only two minutes before the police were called?

This is not asked in a sarcastic way. It seems very possible.

 

[Arctish]

Seriously Derec... just stop. You fell for a bullshit fake news story, and ramped it up into one of your typical anti-black rants. Just accept it and try to do better next time.

The coupons may have been fake but at least one barista was giving out free coffees based on skin color. It's on video. That part is not "fake news".

My understanding of what transpired in that video, based on years spent working as a server in a restaurant, is the barista gave a pushy customer a cup of coffee so he'd chill the fuck out and not make her day any worse. Also, she may have been taken in by the fake coupon herself.

Honestly, I tried not to give stuff away for free because it just encourages the jerks to try harder to screw my employer and me out of our pay, but I admit there were times I gave out more than what the customer actually bought because I didn't want to have to deal with someone's bullshit. But I drew the line at the guy who wanted a free cheesesteak for his girlfriend.

 

[bilby]

... I drew the line at the guy who wanted a free cheesesteak for his girlfriend.

Sounds like a pretty good trade to me, unless she was really ugly

 

[Emily Lake]

I agree. I am certain that their policies do not in any way encourage or condone what this manager did. And there is no amount of training nor screening that will ensure that no racist ever gets hired. But I do think that the steps they are currently taking are good.

I think the training itself won't do anything - racists be racists and generally lack the self awareness to admit they are racists - but going through the exercise makes the very clear statement that whatever racists slip through in the hiring process will NOT be tolerated if they exhibit racist behavior.

and all black people get a free cup of coffee' seem like a bit of an overreaction.

That was #FakeNews

Yeah, that's what I get for believing things written on discussion forums and not double checking everything myself, I suppose.

Am I missing more of the history here that would make Starbucks' response seem more appropriate?

Just their history of being uber-liberal perhaps

I never really considered "uber-liberal" and "racially biased" to be terms that were strongly correlated...

TWO MINUTES.

That is how long the men were in the store before having the police called on them for "trespassing"

That's just absurd. Seriously, just bafflingly absurd.

 

[laughing dog]

This thread has two examples of black males being attacked or mistreated and humiliated obstensibly because of their race. There is no excuse for the Rochester Hills attack. None. Nor is there any excuse for the actions of the staff at that Philadelphia Starbucks. None. Why anyone would either defend the mistreatment or who show more concern about some fake news driven example of "black privilege" or alleged petty double standards than the actual mistreatment or attack is truly remarkable.

 

[Emily Lake]

This thread has two examples of black males being attacked or mistreated and humiliated obstensibly because of their race. There is no excuse for the Rochester Hills attack. None. Nor is there any excuse for the actions of the staff at that Philadelphia Starbucks. None. Why anyone would either defend the mistreatment or who show more concern about some fake news driven example of "black privilege" or alleged petty double standards than the actual mistreatment or attack is truly remarkable.

I understand the impulse to deny racial bias. Most of us are unaware of the biases we hold - if we were aware of them, they wouldn't be biases And in reality there are many possible reasons for any specific individual event to occur. And there have been many cases in the past where it's not clear that racial bias is the most pertinent factor in an event. Not every case where a black person experiences a negative event is caused by bias. Overreacting and assuming that all negative outcomes for a black person are the result of social bias across racial lines can also reinforce racial divides. It can do just as much damage to overcoming bias as refusing to acknowledge bias in the first place.

In these particular cases, racial bias seems to be the most plausible cause.

But it's probably worthwhile to remember that the people who are being told that they're biased or racist or privileged are extremely likely to react defensively. Until there is a better understanding of how that bias is felt on an aggregate level, and a shift away from the individual experience focus, it's very difficult to make headway. I spent a lot of time denying the existence of bias and privilege myself. Very few people get it right away.

 

[laughing dog]

This thread has two examples of black males being attacked or mistreated and humiliated obstensibly because of their race. There is no excuse for the Rochester Hills attack. None. Nor is there any excuse for the actions of the staff at that Philadelphia Starbucks. None. Why anyone would either defend the mistreatment or who show more concern about some fake news driven example of "black privilege" or alleged petty double standards than the actual mistreatment or attack is truly remarkable.

I understand the impulse to deny racial bias. Most of us are unaware of the biases we hold - if we were aware of them, they wouldn't be biases And in reality there are many possible reasons for any specific individual event to occur. And there have been many cases in the past where it's not clear that racial bias is the most pertinent factor in an event. Not every case where a black person experiences a negative event is caused by bias. Overreacting and assuming that all negative outcomes for a black person are the result of social bias across racial lines can also reinforce racial divides. It can do just as much damage to overcoming bias as refusing to acknowledge bias in the first place.

In these particular cases, racial bias seems to be the most plausible cause.

But it's probably worthwhile to remember that the people who are being told that they're biased or racist or privileged are extremely likely to react defensively. Until there is a better understanding of how that bias is felt on an aggregate level, and a shift away from the individual experience focus, it's very difficult to make headway. I spent a lot of time denying the existence of bias and privilege myself. Very few people get it right away.

Even if racial bias is not the cause, there is no excuse for whining about alleged "black privilege" or excusing this unacceptable behavior.

And, someone could acknowledge that these actions are unacceptable without engaging in bigoted derails and persistently embracing fake news.

 

[Emily Lake]

Even if racial bias is not the cause, there is no excuse for whining about alleged "black privilege" or excusing this unacceptable behavior.

And, someone could acknowledge that these actions are unacceptable without engaging in bigoted derails and persistently embracing fake news.

Meh. It's a fairly natural and understandable reaction. Berating the person who doesn't understand the dynamic is very unlikely to change their mind. What's your objective? Do you want to change minds and effect change... or do you want to make someone feel defensive and attacked?

 

[laughing dog]

Meh. It's a fairly natural and understandable reaction.

Not really. Especially when the fake news point is shown but the point is continued.

Berating the person who doesn't understand the dynamic is very unlikely to change their mind. What's your objective? Do you want to change minds and effect change... or do you want to make someone feel defensive and attacked?

Neither, because no discussion board is going to change a bigot's mind. I want them to understand that decent people do not fall for the bigotry.

 

[Emily Lake]

Meh. It's a fairly natural and understandable reaction.

Not really. Especially when the fake news point is shown but the point is continued.

That wasn't the reaction I was referring to.

Berating the person who doesn't understand the dynamic is very unlikely to change their mind. What's your objective? Do you want to change minds and effect change... or do you want to make someone feel defensive and attacked?

Neither, because no discussion board is going to change a bigot's mind. I want them to understand that decent people do not fall for the bigotry.

Why? What do you get out of insisting that they're a bigot, and taking pains to make sure they understand how much better than them you think you are? What does that accomplish, other than making you feel superior?