For Christians:If god exists why must you prove it?

[Rhea]

In fact, that’d be a great “proof” miracle, wouldn’t it. All christians planet wide simultaneously write down the definition of god, FROM god, at it matches completely.

 

[Lion IRC]

What is this thing that people call "God?'

Just use the atheist definition.

The reason that the atheist definition is so vague is because when we ask ten different Christians what they mean by God, we get twelve different answers, so it's impossible to nail down WTF anyone is talking about.

The one thing that can be agreed on, however, is that whatever the fuck it is people are referencing when using that word, it's really kind of stupid.

I don't think the atheist definition of what they don't believe in is vague.
God is the alpha and the omega. Surely that covers everything pan-atheism disbelieves in.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

The reason that the atheist definition is so vague is because when we ask ten different Christians what they mean by God, we get twelve different answers, so it's impossible to nail down WTF anyone is talking about.

The one thing that can be agreed on, however, is that whatever the fuck it is people are referencing when using that word, it's really kind of stupid.

I don't think the atheist definition of what they don't believe in is vague.
God is the alpha and the omega. Surely that covers everything pan-atheism disbelieves in.

See, that's exactly what I'm talking about. You've defined it into meaninglessness. Your definition of God isn't even something to disbelieve in because you're not giving it any characteristics. Fortunately, most Christians aren't your sect of deist wannabes and make an attempt to do something other than troll people with nonsense statements and actually have a measure of intellectual integrity, so conversations can be had with them. They can get into specifics and those specifics can be shown to be baseless.

 

[Underseer]

You’d think if there were an actual god who actually communicated, the christians would all be acquainted with the same one as each other.

The fact that Christians have to tell us about their god and Muslims have to tell us about Allah debunks their claim that there is an all-powerful, all-knowing god who wants us to be aware of his existence.

 

[Opoponax]

God is the alpha and the omega. Surely that covers everything pan-atheism disbelieves in.

My cat is the alpha and omega of all cats.

Show me that I'm wrong.

 

[Rhea]

God is the alpha and the omega.

See, that’s just so over-the-top hollywood drama, you know?
And utterly without meaning.

 

[Lion IRC]

The reason that the atheist definition is so vague is because when we ask ten different Christians what they mean by God, we get twelve different answers, so it's impossible to nail down WTF anyone is talking about.

The one thing that can be agreed on, however, is that whatever the fuck it is people are referencing when using that word, it's really kind of stupid.

I don't think the atheist definition of what they don't believe in is vague.
God is the alpha and the omega. Surely that covers everything pan-atheism disbelieves in.

See, that's exactly what I'm talking about. You've defined it into meaninglessness. Your definition of God isn't even something to disbelieve in because you're not giving it any characteristics. Fortunately, most Christians aren't your sect of deist wannabes and make an attempt to do something other than troll people with nonsense statements and actually have a measure of intellectual integrity, so conversations can be had with them. They can get into specifics and those specifics can be shown to be baseless.

I think I hit a raw nerve.
Atheists disbelieve in 1,000 different types of God(s) and yet you want to quibble about the fine details of the biblical theist God?

Surely atheists, of all people, don't want to do that whole Courtiers Reply thing.
And when they pretend as if they do it turns out to be a gutless bait and switch.
You want to discuss to nature of God about as much as PZ Myers does.

Don't make me puke.

 

[Lion IRC]

All powerful.
(Oh no Lion IRC. That's too vague.)

Ever living.
(Oh no Lion IRC. That's too vague.)

Creator of all that is seen and unseen.
(Oh no Lion IRC. That's too vague.)

How ironic that in this age of non-judgemental post-modernism and relativism, and where personal choice and ambiguity is worshipped, God is the one being commanded to emphatically declare Himself so that we can judge Him.

 

[Rhea]

All powerful.
(Oh no Lion IRC. That's too vague.)

Ever living.
(Oh no Lion IRC. That's too vague.)

Creator of all that is seen and unseen.
(Oh no Lion IRC. That's too vague.)

How ironic that in this age of non-judgemental post-modernism and relativism, and where personal choice and ambiguity is worshipped, God is the one being commanded to emphatically declare Himself so that we can judge Him.

Nah, you just misunderstand the question. What is he like?

 

[Opoponax]

All powerful.
(Oh no Lion IRC. That's too vague.)

Ever living.
(Oh no Lion IRC. That's too vague.)

Creator of all that is seen and unseen.
(Oh no Lion IRC. That's too vague.)

How ironic that in this age of non-judgemental post-modernism and relativism, and where personal choice and ambiguity is worshipped, God is the one being commanded to emphatically declare Himself so that we can judge Him.

He can do anything, he never dies, and he made/makes everything. Okay, I'll accept that for argument's sake. However, why should we worship this god?

Is it because if we don't, he'll torture us forever? Again, for argument's sake, I'll accept that as a reasonable proposition because the survival instinct insists on it. It's a horrifying proposition, but so be it.

But this god is silent and invisible. That's the problem. It's not just your god that's a no-show though; it's all of them. The Hindus have as much evidence for their gods as you do yours. Same with every other religion that's ever existed.

No one is saying you're not allowed to believe what you want. Obviously, you can. But you have to provide something better than cornball assertions about the physical prowess of your god if you want to be convincing.

And you know what? I wish God would show up. I really do. No so that I could judge him, but for many reasons I could go on about. I would certainly appreciate the appearance. Outside of that though, it's your job to convince us of the existence of your god. By saying that he's all powerful, never dies, and creates everything, you're not accomplishing anything.

 

[Rhea]

All powerful.
(Oh no Lion IRC. That's too vague.)

Ever living.
(Oh no Lion IRC. That's too vague.)

Creator of all that is seen and unseen.
(Oh no Lion IRC. That's too vague.)

How ironic that in this age of non-judgemental post-modernism and relativism, and where personal choice and ambiguity is worshipped, God is the one being commanded to emphatically declare Himself so that we can judge Him.

And you know what? I wish God would show up. I really do. No so that I could judge him, but for many reasons I could go on about. I would certainly appreciate the appearance. Outside of that though, it's your job to convince us of the existence of your god. By saying that he's all powerful, never dies, and creates everything, you're not accomplishing anything.

See I can't bring myself to "wish he would show up," because I can't dredge up even a single iota of feeling that anything outside of Lion's imagination even exists. So I don't need Lion's fantasy to "show up," that just... doesn't compute. Especially when his fantasy is completely different from every other "christian's" fantasy. So there's no "he" that is even described to show up.

I just wish if those religionists wanted to talk about their fantasies that they would even make sense, you know? I can only stare at Lion blankly and wonder, "what?"

 

[Angry Floof]

How ironic that in this age of non-judgemental post-modernism and relativism, and where personal choice and ambiguity is worshipped, God is the one being commanded to emphatically declare Himself so that we can judge Him.

How ironic that religious zealots don't seem to grasp that it is Christians who are judged, not the god concept, and they are judged by the batshittery and conflict they bring to the world, although the god concept thing is always a good conversation to have when questioning people's ideas of right and wrong in a god or in a human.

 

[Keith&Co.]

See I can't bring myself to "wish he would show up," because I can't dredge up even a single iota of feeling that anything outside of Lion's imagination even exists.

I think there's an implicit 'If God Is Real' there, though.

If there really is/are God(s), I would really appreciate it if they would reveal themselves, to take the discussion out of the hands of
a) their believers
2) someone else's believers
*) Non believers

Salt is real. The properties of salt can be independently verified, the uses of salt explored in parallel by anyone interested, and most claims of salt applications can be experimentally measured. At least, until you get into the guy who writes letters to the editor about the salt-toothpaste conspiracy, but he's an obvious loon exactly because it's an outrageous claim for an everyday material.
Red Mercury is less easy to fully understand as not everyone has a sample to use for basing their descriptions on, or establishing their claims of how it behaves in cole slaw. We have to START with the letter to the editor guy and his description of red mercury being used in chemtrail calibration devices.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

See, that's exactly what I'm talking about. You've defined it into meaninglessness. Your definition of God isn't even something to disbelieve in because you're not giving it any characteristics. Fortunately, most Christians aren't your sect of deist wannabes and make an attempt to do something other than troll people with nonsense statements and actually have a measure of intellectual integrity, so conversations can be had with them. They can get into specifics and those specifics can be shown to be baseless.

I think I hit a raw nerve.
Atheists disbelieve in 1,000 different types of God(s) and yet you want to quibble about the fine details of the biblical theist God?

Surely atheists, of all people, don't want to do that whole Courtiers Reply thing.
And when they pretend as if they do it turns out to be a gutless bait and switch.
You want to discuss to nature of God about as much as PZ Myers does.

Don't make me puke.

Yes, because the Biblical god is the one which is prevalent in our society, so that's the one which is central to our discussions because there's no real conversations being had about the other ones.

If Aztec beliefs were the majority, atheists would be talking a lot about how Quetzalcoatl is fictional and spring will come about whether or not you cut out some virgin's heart, so why not just let her go? If Greek Pantheism was the big thing, we'd be talking about how there's not really a Poseidon so nobody's getting the bull anyways, so can we skip the sacrifice and just have the boat leave already - I've got a meeting to get to. Since nobody is talking about those gods or doing anything in their names, our disbelief in them isn't something which comes up.

I would love our society to get to a place where Jesus would be as irrelevant as those thousand other ones. When that happens, I'll be overjoyed to pay as much attention to him as I do to Artemis.

 

[Lion IRC]

You don't make Jesus less relevant by talking about Him.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

You don't make Jesus less relevant by talking about Him.

I don't know. Seems to be working fine, so I don't see what data you're basing your conclusions on.

https://religionnews.com/2018/12/10/religion-declining-in-importance-for-many-americans-especially-for-millennials/

Having conversations about the basic dumbassery of religion is marginalizing it amongst the new generations. Having information available to counter the weird claims theists make about things like the age of the Earth and the need for religion as a basis of morality and all the other garbage they spew out makes it easier for people to not accept these weird claims simply because some authority figure asserts them.

The darkness of religious thought is best countered by the light of facts. I will continue to do my part.

 

[Lion IRC]

Well you go right on ahead and keep talking about Him if you want.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Well you go right on ahead and keep talking about Him if you want.

Thank you. I will.

 

[Rhea]

I can't dredge up even a single iota of feeling that anything outside of Lion's imagination even exists.

I think there's an implicit 'If God Is Real' there, though.

If there really is/are God(s), I would really appreciate it if they would reveal themselves, to take the discussion out of the hands of

I get stuck in this loop with them,
yeah, but *if* squares were round...
They aren’t
yeah, but *if* they were
They aren’t
yeah, but *if* they were, wouldn’t you believe in them
I cannot picture this scenario.

 

[Keith&Co.]

I get stuck in this loop with them,

Aw, you don't accept a hypothetical for the sake of discussion, then let them suddenly reveal that it's a bait and switch? You're so heartles.


But i was talking about Opoponax's statement, anyway.