Pro-Lifer says, "Let them die if it costs me money"

[Loren Pechtel]

When you start trotting out “ten 9/11s worth” then yes, you really are hysterical. You need to calm down.

Look at what we have spent in response to 9/11. Why is it wrong to spend 10x that on something that kills 10x as many??

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Open up the economy and the pandemic will ruin them..

How exactly will the pandemic ruin them ? Everyone drops dead in three, four weeks ? The vast, vast majority of people recover from the virus. In fact, it turns out there are many people that had it and never knew it.

Because a lot of us with some sense will be avoiding contact as much as practical whether there's a lockdown or not. Business is going to plunge.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

for the most part, only certain people are vulnerable, the very elderly etc. the youngsters are the ones that need to build up immunity. That’s not going to happen if they are sitting at home waiting on a vaccine that may never get developed.

Nope. Certainly people are much more likely to have a bad outcome, but anyone who is heavily exposed is in serious danger. That's why we are seeing a lot of twentysomethings who ignore the threat and then die of it and why we see a lot of dead doctors.

And note that the preexisting conditions are for the most part things you live a long time with. Controlled high blood pressure doesn't change your life expectancy at all--but gives you roughly a 5% chance of dying from this.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

It will be a part of life, in the future. Right now it threatens to overwhelm medical services if we let it "run its course".

No, we have already taken the steps to prevent the overwhelming of the medical services. This is why we need to ease up on the lock down. It has done its job. With the exception of a few places. NY for example.

It matters not. Most people are still scared. As long as the toilet paper shelf stays mostly empty, people are still hoarding because they are still scared. And now news of disruptions in the food supply. Instead of worrying about yoga studios opening back up, you should worry about meat processing plants shutting down.

Actually, we have an actual shortage due to the shutdown. The problem is our usage has suddenly shifted--home TP use is up, commercial TP use is way down. We have the same problem with milk--shortages while dairy farmers are dumping milk because they can't process it. The bottleneck is a lack of processing capacity for retail sale.

 

[Half-Life]

for the most part, only certain people are vulnerable, the very elderly etc. the youngsters are the ones that need to build up immunity. That’s not going to happen if they are sitting at home waiting on a vaccine that may never get developed.

Nope. Certainly people are much more likely to have a bad outcome, but anyone who is heavily exposed is in serious danger. That's why we are seeing a lot of twentysomethings who ignore the threat and then die of it and why we see a lot of dead doctors.

And note that the preexisting conditions are for the most part things you live a long time with. Controlled high blood pressure doesn't change your life expectancy at all--but gives you roughly a 5% chance of dying from this.

What we should do is open the economy. The ones who don't want to take a chance can still stay home. But, the ones who wish to take a chance can go about their business with the knowledge that it's possible to get it. Personal choice, not government mandates.

Makes a lot more sense to me. Stop having the government decide what you can and can not do. Government is inept. If you guys prefer authoritarian rule, you can go live in North Korea. That's not what I want, though. I want freedom of personal choice.

What this shutdown looks like to me is the government getting ready to have the ability to lock us down no questions asked. Make us be good little sheep. The people in Michigan are not having it, though.

 

[Half-Life]

It matters not. Most people are still scared. As long as the toilet paper shelf stays mostly empty, people are still hoarding because they are still scared. And now news of disruptions in the food supply. Instead of worrying about yoga studios opening back up, you should worry about meat processing plants shutting down.

Actually, we have an actual shortage due to the shutdown. The problem is our usage has suddenly shifted--home TP use is up, commercial TP use is way down. We have the same problem with milk--shortages while dairy farmers are dumping milk because they can't process it. The bottleneck is a lack of processing capacity for retail sale.

Then the dairy farmers should not be shipping as much milk / stores should not be ordering so much. Problem solved.

I can't tell you how many times I've seen grocery stores dumping hundreds of gallons of milk because it was past the expiration date. The solution is for the genius managers to not order as much milk.

 

[Toni]

It matters not. Most people are still scared. As long as the toilet paper shelf stays mostly empty, people are still hoarding because they are still scared. And now news of disruptions in the food supply. Instead of worrying about yoga studios opening back up, you should worry about meat processing plants shutting down.

Actually, we have an actual shortage due to the shutdown. The problem is our usage has suddenly shifted--home TP use is up, commercial TP use is way down. We have the same problem with milk--shortages while dairy farmers are dumping milk because they can't process it. The bottleneck is a lack of processing capacity for retail sale.

Then the dairy farmers should not be shipping as much milk / stores should not be ordering so much. Problem solved.

No, problem not solved. Problem not recognized (by you).

I can't tell you how many times I've seen grocery stores dumping hundreds of gallons of milk because it was past the expiration date. The solution is for the genius managers to not order as much milk.

Isn't this a problem, though? There are a lot of hungry people who really could use that milk. Why is it better to dump milk or meat or produce or whatever rather than to ensure that it goes to people who cannot afford to buy milk, fresh produce, meat for themselves? Why is it better to dump/waste food than to feed people?

 

[Half-Life]

Then the dairy farmers should not be shipping as much milk / stores should not be ordering so much. Problem solved.

No, problem not solved. Problem not recognized (by you).

I can't tell you how many times I've seen grocery stores dumping hundreds of gallons of milk because it was past the expiration date. The solution is for the genius managers to not order as much milk.

Isn't this a problem, though? There are a lot of hungry people who really could use that milk. Why is it better to dump milk or meat or produce or whatever rather than to ensure that it goes to people who cannot afford to buy milk, fresh produce, meat for themselves? Why is it better to dump/waste food than to feed people?

You can't think of the problem? If food is consumed past the expiration date and someone gets sick, they could sue the company. That's one factor. The other factor is that people wouldn't go shopping. They would just say, "I'm waiting til tonight when you give it away for free."

2 problems right there off the top of my head.

 

[lpetrich]

It’s unremarkable that these now unnecessary diktats are so appealing to leftists. They are enjoying it like pigs in mud.

What a fun sight. Right-wingers complaining that they are being treated the way that they want to treat others. It's like the Southern plantation owners during the Civil War who objected to the Confederate government requisitioning slaves and crops. They objected that it made them feel like slaves.

When you start trotting out “ten 9/11s worth” then yes, you really are hysterical. You need to calm down.

TSwizzle, what do you think think the numbers are?

What we should do is open the economy.

Dangerous.

The ones who don't want to take a chance can still stay home.

And be deprived of any way to be supported when doing so, right?

But, the ones who wish to take a chance can go about their business with the knowledge that it's possible to get it.

And risk infecting others.

Personal choice, not government mandates.

I love it when right-wingers sound like anarchists.

Makes a lot more sense to me. Stop having the government decide what you can and can not do. Government is inept. If you guys prefer authoritarian rule, you can go live in North Korea. That's not what I want, though. I want freedom of personal choice.

Anarchist rhetoric. Why not check out Somalia?

What this shutdown looks like to me is the government getting ready to have the ability to lock us down no questions asked. Make us be good little sheep. The people in Michigan are not having it, though.

Boo hoo hoo hoo hoo.

 

[fromderinside]

Oh Sluggo you're so fine. You're so fine I hope you really find your mind. Oh Sluggo. Oh Sluggo.

Brown shirts take to streets to root out science and humanity to make way for unfettered rape by the self interested.

No more democracy. Give us plutocracy.

 

[Elixir]

No more democracy. Give us plutocracy.

Aren't we already ruled by dogs?

 

[Rhea]

I find it remarkable that many right-wingers are complacent about the COVID-19 virus. One would expect them to be especially fearful of it, but they are not.

I suspect there's a correlation that's being overlooked. I suspect (but have no proof) that it's more a case of urban versus rural fear levels than it is political persuasion. COVID is having a devastating effect on urban areas, where social distancing is difficult to maintain and where population density makes transmission very effective. Additionally, stay-at-home orders in urban areas are more likely to be highly disruptive to every day life. For people in more rural settings, there's not as much social contact to begin with, and people tend to be more naturally isolated. It stands to reason that people in urban areas would have a higher level of fear and stress related to COVID than people in rural areas.

I think this is the more likely driver of the difference you're observing, with political preference being a correlated effect than a cause.

I think there is some reliance on this myth in the rural areas, but it is nevertheless a myth. Hence their danger
(posting from rural area)
Yes we have more room around our houses.
BUT
- our schools are just as crowded, 25-30 kids to a class, school buses full.
- Our grocery stores only exist every 5-10 miles. So the stores are still full, and we still stand in line.
- Our movie theaters are the same density as urban ones.
- Our restaurants put tables just as close together
- Our churches are just as mega.

Once we get home, it is easy-peasy to self-isolate. And the one thing we DON'T have is public transportation. But in very many ways, we are just as "crowded" as NYC and DC.


The measure of this is in counties like mine are that people don't take it very seriously, then one funeral happens with an out of town guest and 100 people are infected and 20 dead representing a rate equal to Fairfax county, VA.

But the myth to them is that we're all safe.

 

[Rhea]

Taking a stay at home order and turning it into a recommendation to appease the mouth breathers will further endanger those of us who have enough sense to stay at home when we do have to go out for groceries and other necessities.

Mouth breathers or not, people are suffering extreme hardships because they have had their livelihoods taken away from them unnecessarily. It's enough already. It's time to ease up and start allowing some businesses to open. Keeping the "stay at home/shelter in place" order because of mass hysteria is unnecessary and unjust.

Almost 40 THOUSAND people are DEAD.

Granted, the Trumpster has said no words of empathy or sorrow.
But if that's "Hysteria" to you also, then you appear to have a pretty cold heart.

 

[Rhea]

I find it remarkable that many right-wingers are complacent about the COVID-19 virus. One would expect them to be especially fearful of it, but they are not.

I suspect there's a correlation that's being overlooked. I suspect (but have no proof) that it's more a case of urban versus rural fear levels than it is political persuasion. COVID is having a devastating effect on urban areas, where social distancing is difficult to maintain and where population density makes transmission very effective. Additionally, stay-at-home orders in urban areas are more likely to be highly disruptive to every day life. For people in more rural settings, there's not as much social contact to begin with, and people tend to be more naturally isolated. It stands to reason that people in urban areas would have a higher level of fear and stress related to COVID than people in rural areas.

I think this is the more likely driver of the difference you're observing, with political preference being a correlated effect than a cause.

To some extent you're right--in the truly rural areas the transmission threat is low. However, that's not that many people. Most of the objectors have to be suburban reds.

Good point. If the dead are not too many people to worry about, then the bankrupted are also not too many people to worry about, amirite?

 

[Rhea]

We are at war with an unthinking, unfeeling enemy that can replicate itself trillions of times in a single day within a single host, and jump from one host to another with little effort. We have no defense against this enemy. No treatment, no vaccine. The only way to fight this enemy is to stop its spread, until we are able to build up our defenses. Lifting stay-home restrictions would simply kill many, many more people, cause untold misery, and reduce our healthcare system to tatters. And do nothing to bring the economy back. We are in deep shit and we need to put up with the stench until we have stopped it. We have no other choice.

Quoted for Truth.

 

[TSwizzle]

Almost 40 THOUSAND people are DEAD.

So what’s the acceptable level before we get back to our lives ? 30k ? 20k ? What we looking at here, when no one dies, ever ?

 

[Rhea]

When you start trotting out “ten 9/11s worth” then yes, you really are hysterical. You need to calm down.

So 30,000 dead in a few months doesn't bother you at all. At what point will you begin to be slightly concerned? A hundred thousand? A million?

I am very concerned. But not to the point that society should come to a standstill. This virus is going to have to run its course. We tolerate tens of thousands of deaths from flu every year with barely a murmur. This is just going to be part of life now.

Yes, we tolerate in a year what we've seen now in two months. And that's what we've seen WITH LOCKDOWN. Do the math.
I for one am hoping this wakes people the fuck up about getting their flu vaccine and staying home when sick. Those tens of thousands bother me, too. But these are much worse. We can already do the math. Here's a picture for you.

 

[Rhea]

It will be a part of life, in the future. Right now it threatens to overwhelm medical services if we let it "run its course".

No, we have already taken the steps to prevent the overwhelming of the medical services. This is why we need to ease up on the lock down. It has done its job. With the exception of a few places. NY for example.

Curious what data you are using to determine that it has "done its job" and "it's time to ease up".
How did you conclude that? using what measures? Please be specific. Convince me.

 

[Rhea]

Then the dairy farmers should not be shipping as much milk / stores should not be ordering so much. Problem solved.

I can't tell you how many times I've seen grocery stores dumping hundreds of gallons of milk because it was past the expiration date. The solution is for the genius managers to not order as much milk.

It is clear when one listens to mainstream media (not extreme wing media) because they take the time to explain that the cows must be milked, whether someone buys it or not. If they fail to do this, they will have no product when the market opens up. The mainstream media carefully explains to those without the farming knowledge, or the knowledge of EVERY WOMAN who has nursed a child, that lactation is not a faucet that you turn on and off. (Halfie could ask his wife and he'd know better). Anyone who watches only FOX news would never know this because they lie to their audience for very obvious reasons. We can see here how well it works to keep their audience ignorant.

And many of the other industries face similar constraints. Such as not being able to immediately package for retail use instead of commercial (restaurant/school). You can't plan to be ready when the economy comes back if you destroy your means of production.

 

[Rhea]

Almost 40 THOUSAND people are DEAD.

So what’s the acceptable level before we get back to our lives ? 30k ? 20k ? What we looking at here, when no one dies, ever ?

No, that would be a false dichotomy and a straw man. That's beneath you.


Instead, in my opinion, whether we are in control or not. In control of how fast it is spreading, in control of how many we can take in hospitals, in control of knowing who even has it.

Until we are in control of those things, we can't even calculate. It's that simple.