Black Opinions Don't Matter

[Jimmy Higgins]

I was listening to an NPR piece on the Wall of Mom's and I had a troubling white minded thought.

The Help was a film about black women, and how a white woman helped them. It was criticized for being about the white help, not The Help itself. What bothered me about the interview on NPR was that The Help and the criticism is suffered is exactly true about American society.

The Wall of Moms are a bunch of white women out there protecting protesters of violence against blacks. She is getting tearful over the treatment of blacks and that made me realize, a black's opinion in the US is worth shit. They have some sobby white woman on because it matters more what a white mother thinks than a black mother. It is as if a white person have knighted the black cause saying that 'Yes, your suffering is legitimately recognized.' Now African Americans might read that and think 'No shit, really? Been complaining for a while now, and there is always an excuse as to why the blacks are wrong.'

But it isn't that simple, at least for a white person. It seems to me, there is a world of difference between seeing one wrong and understanding the other. Disproportionate police violence against blacks... bad. But what is worse is that complaints of said disproportionate police violence against blacks FROM BLACKS is entirely ignored, while when whites start caring, it becomes an issue.

For instance let's go to the kneeling. When does the kneeling matter? When black players kneel? No. No one cares if the black players are kneeling. It is if the white players kneel with them. When the white player again justifies the black's cause.

And this realization hits you, when you realize, blacks aren't slaves in the US, but they aren't recognized the same way as white people either. Blacks are second class citizens.And what is worse is that active bigotry isn't the primary reason, maybe not even passive bigotry. I suppose that is the whole difference between "racism" and "bigotry". Racism is engrained into the laws and culture, and can be there is such a way, you never even notice it... if you are white. That is a very depressing epiphany!

 

[rousseau]

From a less pessimistic angle it's not necessarily that black opinions don't matter, but rather that they don't matter to racists. The reason we're seeing white people step in more and more is because those who need to hear the message aren't listening by the very nature of who they are, and who they will listen to.

To me white solidarity is exactly what we want to see. Now, will it actually accomplish anything? That's another question.

 

[Elixir]

From a less pessimistic angle it's not necessarily that black opinions don't matter, but rather that they don't matter to racists. The reason we're seeing white people step in more and more is because those who need to hear the message aren't listening by the very nature of who they are, and who they will listen to.

To me white solidarity is exactly what we want to see. Now, will it actually accomplish anything? That's another question.

That's is lamentably right, IMO. NPR had an interview with a black woman from Portland yesterday. She said pretty much the same thing; she was thankful to the wall-o-white-moms because they draw attention that no wall of black anythings - even a wall of dead black bodies - could ever garner. She went on to further praise them for the fact that when people contact the W.o.M. people, they are referred to black leaders to guide their actions.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

From a less pessimistic angle it's not necessarily that black opinions don't matter, but rather that they don't matter to racists.

That's the trap though. The point is, that racism is so ingrained, that for people that aren't bigots (and I think we need to use racism and bigotry appropriately to free from confusion) are also entrapped by the system. That is why recognition of systemic racism is crucial, because it helps make people aware that bigotry isn't the only force involved with racist policies... inertia is as well, And we get trapped in the inertia.

The reason we're seeing white people step in more and more is because those who need to hear the message aren't listening by the very nature of who they are, and who they will listen to.

And isn't this the trouble? That white people must hear it from white people! We can't trust black opinion, they are committing crimes and poor. But a white person with a college degree says it is an issue... hmm... maybe we should pay attention. Well, yeah, that black person with a degree said it was an issue a long time ago, but they are just sensitive. It isn't like it was in the 60s.

To me white solidarity is exactly what we want to see. Now, will it actually accomplish anything? That's another question.

Blacks are not first class citizens. This is a reality, a reality I really didn't understand, and honestly probably still don't get fully. Yes, I understood there was racism (passive racism). But the truth is, blacks don't matter in America, they never have. They have had to scrape for every thing in this country, and they still aren't trusted. They are poor because they are lazy and black. Whites are poor because America forgot them.

 

[repoman]

This is a PR move.

Also they are now carrying Anerican Flag when they have been burning them just days ago and also attacking others for carrying one.

You are a sheep, Jimmy.

 

[rousseau]

That's the trap though. The point is, that racism is so ingrained, that for people that aren't bigots (and I think we need to use racism and bigotry appropriately to free from confusion) are also entrapped by the system. That is why recognition of systemic racism is crucial, because it helps make people aware that bigotry isn't the only force involved with racist policies... inertia is as well, And we get trapped in the inertia.

And isn't this the trouble? That white people must hear it from white people! We can't trust black opinion, they are committing crimes and poor. But a white person with a college degree says it is an issue... hmm... maybe we should pay attention. Well, yeah, that black person with a degree said it was an issue a long time ago, but they are just sensitive. It isn't like it was in the 60s.

To me white solidarity is exactly what we want to see. Now, will it actually accomplish anything? That's another question.

Blacks are not first class citizens. This is a reality, a reality I really didn't understand, and honestly probably still don't get fully. Yes, I understood there was racism (passive racism). But the truth is, blacks don't matter in America, they never have. They have had to scrape for every thing in this country, and they still aren't trusted. They are poor because they are lazy and black. Whites are poor because America forgot them.

To be honest I'm not sure I follow. Yes, that's exactly the trouble - racist white people must hear it from white people - but I don't know what other alternative there is?

I agree that black people are second-class citizens and that this reality permeates American culture - although I don't know what we should propose to do about it other than have the majority class (whites) start lifting up minorities.

 

[Angry Floof]

To make a society one that doesn't oppress people of color, a lot of white people need to engage in some serious humility, as in, shut our mouths and bow to black people. All of them, even the ones you perceive as crazy or criminal, all of them. Humble yourself and recognize their humanity. Period. No excuses. No whitesplaining or mansplaining. Just set yourself aside and be human.

Not everyone needs to do this, which is a good thing because obviously there are some who will never be able to reach that level of self awareness where they can see their own arrogance and conditioned privilege for what it is. Most of those people will continue on ignoring abuses of power on many fronts because they suffer zero discomfort for it, and continue believing the right wing fear mongering and violence fantasies about black people and protesters because they are certain they will never be on the wrong side of those abusers, and their hate based world view has corrupted any sense of empathy they may have been capable of.

 

[Elixir]

Yes, that's exactly the trouble - racist white people must hear it from white people - but I don't know what other alternative there is?

I agree that black people are second-class citizens and that this reality permeates American culture - although I don't know what we should propose to do about it other than have the majority class (whites) start lifting up minorities.

Yup. When someone has their knee on the neck of an unconscious person, the responsibility for the survival of the unconscious person lies with the one whose knee is on their neck, not with the unconscious person.

 

[Elixir]

Also they are now carrying Anerican Flag when they have been burning them just days ago and also attacking others for carrying one.

Who is the "they" in your vague attack upon "others"?
Is it like Trump decrying people disrespecting the flag that he disrespects?

 

[rousseau]

I've been thinking about this a lot lately as well - the fact that a kind of xenophobia doesn't just exist for outsiders beyond a country's borders, but within them too. And that xenophobia is usually rooted in economic insecurity - when people are struggling to survive, the human rights of people who aren't like them is a hard sell.

So to me one of the roots of racial tension in the U.S. is economic insecurity. When people don't feel safe they naturally side with those who are like them. A country with racial equality is an actualized, prosperous country, so if you want to attack racism you need to approach the underpinnings of the economy first. Unfortunately that's also a whole new rabbit hole to go down.

 

[Elixir]

I've been thinking about this a lot lately as well - the fact that a kind of xenophobia doesn't just exist for outsiders beyond a country's borders, but within them too. And that xenophobia is usually rooted in economic insecurity - when people are struggling to survive, the human rights of people who aren't like them is a hard sell.

So to me one of the roots of racial tension in the U.S. is economic insecurity. When people don't feel safe they naturally side with those who are like them. A country with racial equality is an actualized, prosperous country, so if you want to attack racism you need to approach the underpinnings of the economy first. Unfortunately that's also a whole new rabbit hole to go down.

Economic security will remain elusive for the 98%, as long as the Trump junta continues to loot the treasury and steal everything that isn't bolted down.

 

[Toni]

I was listening to an NPR piece on the Wall of Mom's and I had a troubling white minded thought.

The Help was a film about black women, and how a white woman helped them. It was criticized for being about the white help, not The Help itself. What bothered me about the interview on NPR was that The Help and the criticism is suffered is exactly true about American society.

The Wall of Moms are a bunch of white women out there protecting protesters of violence against blacks. She is getting tearful over the treatment of blacks and that made me realize, a black's opinion in the US is worth shit. They have some sobby white woman on because it matters more what a white mother thinks than a black mother. It is as if a white person have knighted the black cause saying that 'Yes, your suffering is legitimately recognized.' Now African Americans might read that and think 'No shit, really? Been complaining for a while now, and there is always an excuse as to why the blacks are wrong.'

But it isn't that simple, at least for a white person. It seems to me, there is a world of difference between seeing one wrong and understanding the other. Disproportionate police violence against blacks... bad. But what is worse is that complaints of said disproportionate police violence against blacks FROM BLACKS is entirely ignored, while when whites start caring, it becomes an issue.

For instance let's go to the kneeling. When does the kneeling matter? When black players kneel? No. No one cares if the black players are kneeling. It is if the white players kneel with them. When the white player again justifies the black's cause.

And this realization hits you, when you realize, blacks aren't slaves in the US, but they aren't recognized the same way as white people either. Blacks are second class citizens.And what is worse is that active bigotry isn't the primary reason, maybe not even passive bigotry. I suppose that is the whole difference between "racism" and "bigotry". Racism is engrained into the laws and culture, and can be there is such a way, you never even notice it... if you are white. That is a very depressing epiphany!

My personal objection to The Help is not that a white woman helped black women but that she did it for her own purposes--to assuage her own grief and to explore her own guilt and as an act of personal ambition and rebellion--and she got to go off to NYC for her dream job with the black women whose lives were now in danger telling her she'd better go on to NYC because no man around there would ever have her now. They stayed, of course, to deal with the mess.

But still, white people must support and stand up for and recognize the absolute truth that the lives of all people, regardless of the color of their skin, their national origins or ancestry or their condition in life are of equal value and equally deserve respect, protection, recognition, encouragement, education, fair and decent housing, health care, jobs, equal treatment under the law, access to all the best that society has to offer: FULL EQUALITY.

 

[southernhybrid]

I'm a little confused at to what the actual point of this thread is meant to be. But, if it's about Portland, Portland is a city that is very, very white, with a black population of about 6%. Without the help of white folks, the BKM movement would never have gotten off the ground in Portland. I recently read an article that I'm going to link about the history of extreme racism in Portland and how most of Portland's black protesters are delighted that their white peers are marching with them and defending them as evidence that they finally recognize and understand the problem of systemic racism. You can't have a successful movement unless you have a large percentage of supporters. And, btw, some black moms have joined the line of white moms if the photos in my link are true.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/24/us/portland-oregon-protests-white-race.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage#commentsContainer

PORTLAND, Ore. — Seyi Fasoranti, a chemist who moved to Oregon from the East Coast six months ago, has watched the Black Lives Matter protests in Portland with fascination. A sea of white faces in one of the whitest major American cities has cried out for racial justice every night for nearly two months.

“It’s something I joke about with my friends,” Mr. Fasoranti, who is Black, said over the din of protest chants this week. “There are more Black Lives Matter signs in Portland than Black people.”

Loud advocacy has been a hallmark of Portland life for decades, but unlike past protests over environmental policies or foreign wars, racism is a more complicated topic in Oregon, one that is intertwined with demographics and the state’s legacy of some of the most brutal anti-Black laws in the nation.

During 56 straight nights of protests here, throngs of largely white protesters have raised their fists in the air and chanted, “This is not a riot, it’s a revolution.” They have thrown water bottles at the federal courthouse, tried to pry off the plywood that protects the entrance and engaged in running battles with police officers through clouds of tear gas. In recent nights, the number of protesters has swollen into the thousands.

“I feel the most protected that I ever have in my city,” Mr. Igwé said during a Wednesday night protest that lasted well into Thursday morning. “White people can’t understand what we’ve been through completely, but they are trying to empathize. That’s a beginning.”

“There’s massive racial disparities around wealth, health care, schools and criminal legal systems that white Portlanders just don’t understand.”

Yet on the streets this week in Portland there was optimism among Black protest leaders who generally spoke admiringly of the large white crowds, which were reinvigorated last week after clashes with federal riot police officers who are protecting a U.S. courthouse and other buildings.

Xavier Warner, a Black protest organizer, called the predominance of white protesters “a beautiful thing” that speaks to the progressive ethos in the city.

It seems silly to object to white people who are starting to understand systemic racism joining in the BLM movement. It's a little bit like when I was in my late teens and marched against the Viet Nam War. Sometimes veterans from that war would come back home and join us in the antiwar march. We were thrilled to have them join us.

Now that might not be the best example of what I'm trying to explain, but the point is that the more people you have in a movement, the more chances you have of being taken seriously. Portland is so white, that the Black residents literally needed the support of the white community.

I realize that some Black individuals resent the number of white people joining in this movement, but they seem to be in the minority. MLK was right. We need to reach a time when people are never judged by the color of their skin. That goes both ways. Race is only a social construct anyway, so why not work to change the concept of race and start viewing each other as part of the human race. ( Okay. I admit it. I am still a little bit idealistic. ) I'm used to living in a black majority city and white there is still a problem with racism, I am well aware of it, and I enjoy having black neighbors and friends and appreciate that they don't hold my skin color against me.

If I've totally missed the point of what the OP is trying to say, I apologize.

 

[thebeave]

I was listening to an NPR piece on the Wall of Mom's and I had a troubling white minded thought.

The Help was a film about black women, and how a white woman helped them. It was criticized for being about the white help, not The Help itself. What bothered me about the interview on NPR was that The Help and the criticism is suffered is exactly true about American society.

The Wall of Moms are a bunch of white women out there protecting protesters of violence against blacks. She is getting tearful over the treatment of blacks and that made me realize, a black's opinion in the US is worth shit. They have some sobby white woman on because it matters more what a white mother thinks than a black mother. It is as if a white person have knighted the black cause saying that 'Yes, your suffering is legitimately recognized.' Now African Americans might read that and think 'No shit, really? Been complaining for a while now, and there is always an excuse as to why the blacks are wrong.'

But it isn't that simple, at least for a white person. It seems to me, there is a world of difference between seeing one wrong and understanding the other. Disproportionate police violence against blacks... bad. But what is worse is that complaints of said disproportionate police violence against blacks FROM BLACKS is entirely ignored, while when whites start caring, it becomes an issue.

For instance let's go to the kneeling. When does the kneeling matter? When black players kneel? No. No one cares if the black players are kneeling. It is if the white players kneel with them. When the white player again justifies the black's cause.

And this realization hits you, when you realize, blacks aren't slaves in the US, but they aren't recognized the same way as white people either. Blacks are second class citizens.And what is worse is that active bigotry isn't the primary reason, maybe not even passive bigotry. I suppose that is the whole difference between "racism" and "bigotry". Racism is engrained into the laws and culture, and can be there is such a way, you never even notice it... if you are white. That is a very depressing epiphany!

My personal objection to The Help is not that a white woman helped black women but that she did it for her own purposes--to assuage her own grief and to explore her own guilt and as an act of personal ambition and rebellion--and she got to go off to NYC for her dream job with the black women whose lives were now in danger telling her she'd better go on to NYC because no man around there would ever have her now. They stayed, of course, to deal with the mess.

But still, white people must support and stand up for and recognize the absolute truth that the lives of all people, regardless of the color of their skin, their national origins or ancestry or their condition in life are of equal value and equally deserve respect, protection, recognition, encouragement, education, fair and decent housing, health care, jobs, equal treatment under the law, access to all the best that society has to offer: FULL EQUALITY.

Maybe the white people could make signs and chant, "All Lives Matter". On second thought,...maybe not.

 

[Trausti]

Black Opinions Don't Matter

 

[Toni]

I was listening to an NPR piece on the Wall of Mom's and I had a troubling white minded thought.

The Help was a film about black women, and how a white woman helped them. It was criticized for being about the white help, not The Help itself. What bothered me about the interview on NPR was that The Help and the criticism is suffered is exactly true about American society.

The Wall of Moms are a bunch of white women out there protecting protesters of violence against blacks. She is getting tearful over the treatment of blacks and that made me realize, a black's opinion in the US is worth shit. They have some sobby white woman on because it matters more what a white mother thinks than a black mother. It is as if a white person have knighted the black cause saying that 'Yes, your suffering is legitimately recognized.' Now African Americans might read that and think 'No shit, really? Been complaining for a while now, and there is always an excuse as to why the blacks are wrong.'

But it isn't that simple, at least for a white person. It seems to me, there is a world of difference between seeing one wrong and understanding the other. Disproportionate police violence against blacks... bad. But what is worse is that complaints of said disproportionate police violence against blacks FROM BLACKS is entirely ignored, while when whites start caring, it becomes an issue.

For instance let's go to the kneeling. When does the kneeling matter? When black players kneel? No. No one cares if the black players are kneeling. It is if the white players kneel with them. When the white player again justifies the black's cause.

And this realization hits you, when you realize, blacks aren't slaves in the US, but they aren't recognized the same way as white people either. Blacks are second class citizens.And what is worse is that active bigotry isn't the primary reason, maybe not even passive bigotry. I suppose that is the whole difference between "racism" and "bigotry". Racism is engrained into the laws and culture, and can be there is such a way, you never even notice it... if you are white. That is a very depressing epiphany!

My personal objection to The Help is not that a white woman helped black women but that she did it for her own purposes--to assuage her own grief and to explore her own guilt and as an act of personal ambition and rebellion--and she got to go off to NYC for her dream job with the black women whose lives were now in danger telling her she'd better go on to NYC because no man around there would ever have her now. They stayed, of course, to deal with the mess.

But still, white people must support and stand up for and recognize the absolute truth that the lives of all people, regardless of the color of their skin, their national origins or ancestry or their condition in life are of equal value and equally deserve respect, protection, recognition, encouragement, education, fair and decent housing, health care, jobs, equal treatment under the law, access to all the best that society has to offer: FULL EQUALITY.

Maybe the white people could make signs and chant, "All Lives Matter". On second thought,...maybe not.

White people declaring all lives matter generally mean that lives of people like them matter more. Black lives didn’t matter when black people were placed in chains in the hulls of ships, sailor thousands of miles from their homes, forbidden to speak their own languages, have their own names, marry, read and write, were beaten, raped, murdered with impunity, were bought and sold like cattle, were forbidden to drink from the same fountains, go to the same schools or hospitals, VOTE, marry whom they chose. Black lives didn’t matter when crosses were burned in front of their homes, when their churches were burned, when their children murdered. Their lives didn’t matter when they were directed into substandard housing and substandard loans and substandard schools and substandard jobs. They didn’t matter when Tamir Rice was murdered by police officers or when George Floyd begged for mercy with a cop’s knee on his neck. Or thousands of other times.

Don’t go claiming that all lives matter until the lives of black people actually matter enough that they are treated as though they matter as much as white people.

 

[Trausti]

White people declaring all lives matter generally mean that lives of people like them matter more.

No. Quit projecting.

 

[Trausti]

I was listening to an NPR piece on the Wall of Mom's and I had a troubling white minded thought.

The Help was a film about black women, and how a white woman helped them. It was criticized for being about the white help, not The Help itself. What bothered me about the interview on NPR was that The Help and the criticism is suffered is exactly true about American society.

The Wall of Moms are a bunch of white women out there protecting protesters of violence against blacks. She is getting tearful over the treatment of blacks and that made me realize, a black's opinion in the US is worth shit. They have some sobby white woman on because it matters more what a white mother thinks than a black mother. It is as if a white person have knighted the black cause saying that 'Yes, your suffering is legitimately recognized.' Now African Americans might read that and think 'No shit, really? Been complaining for a while now, and there is always an excuse as to why the blacks are wrong.'

But it isn't that simple, at least for a white person. It seems to me, there is a world of difference between seeing one wrong and understanding the other. Disproportionate police violence against blacks... bad. But what is worse is that complaints of said disproportionate police violence against blacks FROM BLACKS is entirely ignored, while when whites start caring, it becomes an issue.

For instance let's go to the kneeling. When does the kneeling matter? When black players kneel? No. No one cares if the black players are kneeling. It is if the white players kneel with them. When the white player again justifies the black's cause.

And this realization hits you, when you realize, blacks aren't slaves in the US, but they aren't recognized the same way as white people either. Blacks are second class citizens.And what is worse is that active bigotry isn't the primary reason, maybe not even passive bigotry. I suppose that is the whole difference between "racism" and "bigotry". Racism is engrained into the laws and culture, and can be there is such a way, you never even notice it... if you are white. That is a very depressing epiphany!

My personal objection to The Help is not that a white woman helped black women but that she did it for her own purposes--to assuage her own grief and to explore her own guilt and as an act of personal ambition and rebellion--and she got to go off to NYC for her dream job with the black women whose lives were now in danger telling her she'd better go on to NYC because no man around there would ever have her now. They stayed, of course, to deal with the mess.

But still, white people must support and stand up for and recognize the absolute truth that the lives of all people, regardless of the color of their skin, their national origins or ancestry or their condition in life are of equal value and equally deserve respect, protection, recognition, encouragement, education, fair and decent housing, health care, jobs, equal treatment under the law, access to all the best that society has to offer: FULL EQUALITY.

Maybe the white people could make signs and chant, "All Lives Matter". On second thought,...maybe not.

Don't say all lives matter!

Black Lives Matter ‘Activists’ are Heartlessly Trolling A Dead Woman’s Facebook Page

BLM now mutherfucker.

 

[repoman]

That picture proves little to me in general.

Two things first, I don't like when extreme outlier non famous white sickos are used to cast all whites as assholes. Second, why it seems like lighter blacks have a bigger chip on their shoulder.

 

[southernhybrid]

BLM isn't about white lives not mattering. It's just about how Black folks have been the victims of overly aggressive policing due to systemic racism. So, to me, as a White person, the movement is simply asking that Black people be treated the same as White people and that no negative assumptions about them will be used by the police. Statistically, far more Black citizens, often those who are innocent or have been suspected of committing a non violent crime are treated ruthlessly by law enforcement. Even when they aren't physical harmed, they are often harassed for no apparent reason, other than racist views held by too many police. That's the problem that needs to change. But, I would think the posters here are smart enough to understand that.

To me, my fellow White peers, who object to BLM as a term are either totally clueless or hold some racist views that they might not even be aware of. I've sure known plenty of clueless white people in my life who were unaware of their racism. I've known them because for some reason they think they can use racist terms or make negative assumptions about Black people in front of me because I'm white and they assume I'm like them. I always disagree with their biased assumptions.