Black Woman calling a White Woman a "Karen"

[J842P]

So, I bet you were at the forefront defending Derec's use of dindu, am I right? Because after all, it is about behavior, not race.

I'm sure you can rub a few brain cells together and figure out the difference. Think of it as a game, a thought experiment.

Hint: Both represent abuse of privilege.

That's a distinction without a difference.

At least, it isn't the distinction you are making in your arguments, so if that is truly the distinction you are making, then make it. Don't pretend it's about the fact that it's about behavior the target can change because clearly that isn't the motivation behind your reasoning. That is clearly a rationalization you are making up. One that isn't consistent.

Of course you are not obliged to care about consistency.

 

[Angry Floof]

So, I bet you were at the forefront defending Derec's use of dindu, am I right? Because after all, it is about behavior, not race.

I'm sure you can rub a few brain cells together and figure out the difference. Think of it as a game, a thought experiment.

Hint: Both represent abuse of privilege.

That's a distinction without a difference.

At least, it isn't the distinction you are making in your arguments, so if that is truly the distinction you are making, then make it. Don't pretend it's about the fact that it's about behavior the target can change because clearly that isn't the motivation behind your reasoning. That is clearly a rationalization you are making up. One that isn't consistent.

Of course you are not obliged to care about consistency.

"Dindu" is a slur against an oppressed minority. People like Derec use it to demoralize an already demoralized population.

A "Karen" is a privileged white person who, like Derec, also likes to abuse black people by calling the cops on them for being black.

I don't give a flying shit what you call Derecs or Karens. They have nothing to fear. They are not being killed on a whim or thrown in jail because somebody got annoyed with them, and not in any danger of that happening to them. And they are utterly without a sense of empathy for human beings who don't look like them and who are relentlessly vilified in right wing media.

 

[KeepTalking]

Not equivalent at all. Doctors, by virtue of their knowledge and training, can answer any medical question better than people who are not doctors. Being white and male doesn't give anyone special perspective. In fact, white male perspective is typically oblivious to the perspectives of people who are not like them.

And no, it is not a racial slur. For fuck's sake. You can stop Karening at any time by getting a clue, or a heart, or an education, or all of the above, but you can't take off your skin. Karen's white skin is only relevant to the fact that she's a fucking racist who uses her white privilege to harass black people for no other reason than they are black and she has been indoctrinated to believe they are all criminals and she's allowed to abuse them because of their skin color.

Karens do not suffer for their skin color. They do get ridiculed and shamed for their ridiculous and shameful behavior, though.

So, I bet you were at the forefront defending Derec's use of dindu, am I right? Because after all, it is about behavior, not race.

How do you not realize that the term "dindu" is racially charged from the outset, as it is making use of a stereotypical speech pattern that is only applied to blacks? The term "Karen" is in no way similar.

 

[ZiprHead]

I just read that QAnon Karen, the woman that destroyed the mask display in a target store, has lost all her PR clients and her husband is divorcing her. She blames mental illness.

 

[J842P]

Not equivalent at all. Doctors, by virtue of their knowledge and training, can answer any medical question better than people who are not doctors. Being white and male doesn't give anyone special perspective. In fact, white male perspective is typically oblivious to the perspectives of people who are not like them.

And no, it is not a racial slur. For fuck's sake. You can stop Karening at any time by getting a clue, or a heart, or an education, or all of the above, but you can't take off your skin. Karen's white skin is only relevant to the fact that she's a fucking racist who uses her white privilege to harass black people for no other reason than they are black and she has been indoctrinated to believe they are all criminals and she's allowed to abuse them because of their skin color.

Karens do not suffer for their skin color. They do get ridiculed and shamed for their ridiculous and shameful behavior, though.

So, I bet you were at the forefront defending Derec's use of dindu, am I right? Because after all, it is about behavior, not race.

How do you not realize that the term "dindu" is racially charged from the outset, as it is making use of a stereotypical speech pattern that is only applied to blacks? The term "Karen" is in no way similar.

Of course I realize it, that's why I chose the example. "Karen" is explicitly about white women, the name is chosen because it is a stereotypical white name. It's like the term "Becky", which is a term for a "basic" young white woman/girl. Those are both chosen because they are stereotypically white names. No one denies that it's specifically a stereotype about white women.


Now, you may disagree with that, which I find incredible. Honestly, I think you are just refusing to see something that has clear racial connotations because you don't want to admit that the term has that, because it is people in your ideological side that use the term, and you see using this sort of racially charged language as wrong, and thus, you want to deny that your team is doing that. But perhaps you just honestly don't see it... Again, I find that amazing. But ok.

And it's fine, I already was able to establish that Angry Floof doesn't care because it is about white people, and she cares about "dindu" because it's about black people. At least she's honest about her reasoning. Which again, is my main point here: let's all be honest about our reasoning. Stop pretending that "Karen" isn't explicitly about white women. If you want to make some other argument, that's fine, but denying that is denying reality. To me, the only rational explanation of that is ideological blindness. But maybe I'm wrong.

 

[ruby sparks]

I just read that QAnon Karen, the woman that destroyed the mask display in a target store, has lost all her PR clients and her husband is divorcing her. She blames mental illness.

Whose mental illness?

If her own then fair enough. She's at least owning her own issues.

 

[Angry Floof]

And it's fine, I already was able to establish that Angry Floof doesn't care because it is about white people, and she cares about "dindu" because it's about black people.

Yes, exactly. White people do not need to be protected from black people. I will always care more about oppressed and abused people than I do about stunted fucking bigots who get off on abusing people they think can't or won't fight back. I will always care much less about the feelings of people who abuse their privilege and power to abuse others. Thanks for admitting that you don't care, that you'd rather ignore systemic abuse of black people by white people under a false pretense of treating people equally.

At least she's honest about her reasoning. Which again, is my main point here: let's all be honest about our reasoning. Stop pretending that "Karen" isn't explicitly about white women. If you want to make some other argument, that's fine, but denying that is denying reality. To me, the only rational explanation of that is ideological blindness. But maybe I'm wrong.

You are wrong, yes. It's about racism. White people have nothing to fear from black people. That's why Karens and Derecs are so comfortable treating black people as if they have a god given right to abuse them without a second thought. White people don't face the same fears and risks even though they live in the same society as the majority white people. No one is hurting white people by calling out their racist, prejudiced, callous sense of entitlement to abuse black people. Die mad about it.

 

[KeepTalking]

How do you not realize that the term "dindu" is racially charged from the outset, as it is making use of a stereotypical speech pattern that is only applied to blacks? The term "Karen" is in no way similar.

Of course I realize it, that's why I chose the example. "Karen" is explicitly about white women, the name is chosen because it is a stereotypical white name. It's like the term "Becky", which is a term for a "basic" young white woman/girl. Those are both chosen because they are stereotypically white names. No one denies that it's specifically a stereotype about white women.

And following your logic, the term "John" is a stereotypical white name, so when we refer to those men who frequent prostitutes as "Johns" then we are being racist against white men. No, that doesn't hold water, the example you use must not be as universal as you think it is . "Karens" are "Karens" because of their behavior, in the same way "Johns" are "Johns" because of their behavior.

Now, you may disagree with that, which I find incredible.

I do disagree, which is why we are having this discussion, but what you find to be incredible has very little to do with the discussion at hand.

Honestly, I think you are just refusing to see something that has clear racial connotations because you don't want to admit that the term has that, because it is people in your ideological side that use the term, and you see using this sort of racially charged language as wrong, and thus, you want to deny that your team is doing that.

I am glad you are being honest, but I would prefer that you keep assumptions about my ideology out of this, and just stick with the things I say

But perhaps you just honestly don't see it... Again, I find that amazing. But ok.

Or perhaps I actually have given my position some thought, articulated my thinking, and provided examples as well as counter examples. I have even noted that I have seen at least one person use the term in a manner that seems sexist/racist, though this occurred after my initial posts in this thread, and I am still of the opinion that "Karen" is not necessarily racist or sexist.

And it's fine, I already was able to establish that Angry Floof doesn't care because it is about white people, and she cares about "dindu" because it's about black people.

Would it surprise you that I think you have actually failed to establish anything of the sort, and that you are being quite uncharitable with regard to your characterization of the things AF

At least she's honest about her reasoning.

I don't think AF agrees with your characterization of their reasoning, but I will let you two hash that out on your own.

Which again, is my main point here: let's all be honest about our reasoning. Stop pretending that "Karen" isn't explicitly about white women.

It isn't pretense. Stop ascribing false motivations to people just because you don't agree with them.

If you want to make some other argument, that's fine, but denying that is denying reality.

I don't want to make some other argument. I feel my argument is perfectly valid, and reflects reality.

To me, the only rational explanation of that is ideological blindness. But maybe I'm wrong.

You are wrong.

 

[Elixir]

How do you not realize that the term "dindu" is racially charged from the outset...

Of course I realize it

Hmm. Aren't you one of those Trumpdindunuffins?

 

[ZiprHead]

Of course I realize it, that's why I chose the example. "Karen" is explicitly about white women, the name is chosen because it is a stereotypical white name. It's like the term "Becky", which is a term for a "basic" young white woman/girl. Those are both chosen because they are stereotypically white names. No one denies that it's specifically a stereotype about white women.

Sorry, no, the name Karen was not chosen because it is a stereotypical white woman name. It originates from the Karen Walker character on Will and Grace played by Megan Mullaly.

 

[ruby sparks]

Of course I realize it, that's why I chose the example. "Karen" is explicitly about white women, the name is chosen because it is a stereotypical white name. It's like the term "Becky", which is a term for a "basic" young white woman/girl. Those are both chosen because they are stereotypically white names. No one denies that it's specifically a stereotype about white women.

Sorry, no, the name Karen was not chosen because it is a stereotypical white woman name. It originates from the Karen Walker character on Will and Grace played by Megan Mullaly.

First time I've heard that. Watched that show. Don't remember that character fitting the tropes now being used. Nor does wiki mention it:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karen...xact origins of the,been coopted by white men.

"The term may have originated on Black Twitter as a meme used to describe white women who "tattle on Black kids' lemonade stands""

 

[laughing dog]

For what it is worth, there is at least one black woman named Karen who does not think it is slur or sexist.

My name is Karen. I would like to register a complaint.

My name has been everywhere on the Internet in recent weeks, with #Karen trending on Twitter, flooding TikTok and becoming the subject of social media memes. #AndThenKarenSnapped also became a viral trend, describing white women losing their tempers. In the past several years, “Karen” has come to represent a certain archetype of middle-aged white female privilege — or the new n-word, depending on whom you ask. Yup, “Karen” is the new black......
As a millennial black Karen, and a child of immigrants, I find the brouhaha hilarious and twisted. “Karen” is not and will never be an oppressive slur. Anyone who disagrees can take it up with my manag … — I mean, with history......
But this is not an exclusively American phenomenon. Cultures from around the world use common names to describe archetypal behaviors. Is “Karen” gendered? Yes, it’s a girl’s name. But sexist? Nah....
Dehumanizing slurs don’t gain their cruel power overnight. They are part and parcel of generations of violence, erasure and discrimination. Calling the Karen meme the new n-word or asserting that it is a sexist slur only trivializes actual violence and discrimination that destroy lives and communities.

And to invent oppression when none is happening to you? Well, as a Karen, I just have to say — that is peak Karen behavior.

 

[Gospel]

White people screaming about racism from black people is so hilarious to me. Only after you let Black people sell you like any other piece of property, change your name and language erase your culture, rape & kill your women, men and childrenwhile all of these activities are backed by the US government for 240ish years will i take the bullshit seriously. Fuck you.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

White people screaming about racism from black people is so hilarious to me. Only after you let Black people sell you like any other piece of property, change your name and language erase your culture, rape & kill your women, men and childrenwhile all of these activities are backed by the US government for 240ish years will i take the bullshit seriously. Fuck you.

So you think it should be the Hatfields and the McCoys forever?

 

[Gospel]

White people screaming about racism from black people is so hilarious to me. Only after you let Black people sell you like any other piece of property, change your name and language erase your culture, rape & kill your women, men and childrenwhile all of these activities are backed by the US government for 240ish years will i take the bullshit seriously. Fuck you.

So you think it should be the Hatfields and the McCoys forever?

Never herd of them.

 

[laughing dog]

White people screaming about racism from black people is so hilarious to me. Only after you let Black people sell you like any other piece of property, change your name and language erase your culture, rape & kill your women, men and childrenwhile all of these activities are backed by the US government for 240ish years will i take the bullshit seriously. Fuck you.

So you think it should be the Hatfields and the McCoys forever?

240ish years is not forever.

 

[Gospel]

White people screaming about racism from black people is so hilarious to me. Only after you let Black people sell you like any other piece of property, change your name and language erase your culture, rape & kill your women, men and childrenwhile all of these activities are backed by the US government for 240ish years will i take the bullshit seriously. Fuck you.

So you think it should be the Hatfields and the McCoys forever?

240ish years is not forever.

hahaha. But seriously, What is the logic? I mean what has black racism against whites done that has affected the lives of millions of white people over the course of two centuries? I'd think at least half a century would be the bear minimum to says it some sort of systematic problem that requires 250,000 white folks marching down the street with picket signs demanding reform. Oh wait, there was no 250,000 man/woman march against black racists huh? Google was no help either.

 

[Elixir]

...what has black racism against whites done that has affected the lives of millions of white people over the course of two centuries?

I remember a lot of white guys being lynched for looking at a black woman.
No, wait... that's not right.
Never mind.

 

[RVonse]

Calling a woman a bitch or cunt is misogyny. Call her a Karen and you’re cool and witty. But only if she’s White.

 

[Rhea]

Calling a woman a bitch or cunt is misogyny. Call her a Karen and you’re cool and witty. But only if she’s White.

See, I just don’t see that. Take a goth white woman, and call her a “Karen,” and it doesn’t work. Take a hippy and call her a “Karen,” and again, it’s clear you’re not using “Karen” like veryone else. Say Marilyn Monroe is a “Karen,” and people will “wut?” you. Call RBG a ‘Karen” and people will roll their eyes. A fat white southern redneck woman smoking a cheroot, sorry, also not a Karen.


So no it is not a word that implies all white women. Not even a majority of them. Not even by the people who use “Karen.” So how can it be a racial slur?

This sounds like the kind of argument that says, “How come she got into Harvard with an A- GPA and I didn’t get in wiith a D+? Huh? Where’s the fairness for the poeple who didn’t get A-plusses? Oppression!