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Enacting Equality - Undoing Racial Injustice

Rhea

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Note: This thread is to discuss how equality can be brought to fruition.

THIS THREAD STIPULATES that racial inequality exists and has manifested in financial inequality, inequality of opportunity, inequality in justice, inequality in health.
If you do not stipulate this as true for the sake of this discussion, then go start your own thread about WHETHER racial inequality exists.

This thread STIPULATES that racial financial inequality exists. That racial opportunity inequality exists.



So for all those who wish to discuss mechanisms of change having stipulated that the inequality exists:


What are some methods and acts that can change inequality to equality? How long do they need to come to fruition? What cost needs to be borne to accomplish these things? I am thinking of things like
  • Improving educaational equality by providing more resources to low-income schools. Property taxes as school funding is inherently unequal and creates/perpetuates inequality.
  • Improving health equality by funding studies into why there are differences in health outcomes, or by funding nutrition education and nutrition availability.


Things llike that. Thoughts?
 
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Note: This thread is to discuss how equality can be brought to fruition.

THIS THREAD STIPULATES that racial inequality exists and has manifested in financial inequality, inequality of opportunity, inequality in justice, inequality in health.
If you do not stipulate this as true for the sake of this discussion, then go start your own thread about WHETHER racial inequality exists.

This thread STIPULATES that racial financial inequality exists. That racial opportunity inequality exists.



So for all those who wish to discuss mechanisms of change having stipulated that the inequality exists:


What are some methods and acts that can change inequality to equality? How long do they need to come to fruition? What cost needs to be borne to accomplish these things? I am thinking of things like
  • Improving educaational equality by providing more resources to low-income schools. Property taxes as school funding is inherently unequal and creates/perpetuates inequality.
  • Improving health equality by funding studies into why there are differences in health outcomes, or by funding nutrition education and nutrition availability.


Things llike that. Thoughts?

Improving health outcomes is always worth striving for. Things like pre-natal and ante-natal health for new mothers& infants can make a huge difference and benefit to the lives & communities that had little before hand.

I have already been impressed by how microloans for small businesses, usually home based,can make a difference when properly targeted and managed.
 
I think one part of it is understanding that the U.S. is a culturally plural country. You've tried to be a melting pot, but I think the reality is that the U.S. is made up of a number of ethnically distinct sub-groups that are competing with each other for resources. This is a major topic of study on the continent of Africa, because actual ethnic groups are so broad and at odds with each other politically.

It's an important point because the question isn't so much - what do we need to do to enact equality - it's how do we achieve those outcomes politically in a culturally plural society. And maybe the recognition that this 'how' varies greatly pending on which state we're talking about.
 
Poverty is a huge problem in minority neighborhoods so let's start there. Decreasing poverty will help both poor black and poor white citizens.

1. Increase the minimum wage and then adjust it yearly based on inflation. This will help the black community the most, but poor white folks will also benefit from this.

2. Provide some form of UHC. It doesn't have to be single payer. There are many ways to provide UHC. We just need to work towards the goal of having all citizens having access to medical care.

3. Teach nutrition in the schools, starting at a very young age. Obesity is a huge problem in poorer communities, especially in areas that are primarily made up of minorities. Perhaps if chidden are taught good basic nutritions and if school lunches are more nutritious, children will establish better eating habits, leading to better health outcomes.

4.Improve training, salaries and educational requirements for policing and hold police responsible for inappropriate actions.

5. Provide programs that encourage more minorities to go into teaching and medicine. We need more black medical providers. From what I've read and been told, there are a lot of black men who don't feel comfortable with a white provider. I'm happy to say that there are far more black nurses then there were when I started my own career, but there are still too few black physicians and NPs. Recruit more. Racism is a fairly big problem in health care. Black patients are often treated differently from white patients. That needs to change.

6. Decriminalize recreational drugs. I read yesterday that about 50% of current inmates are there for drug charges. That's insane. Why are we locking up people for using drugs which are often less harmful than ETOH. While statistically, just as many white people use illegal recreational drugs as black people, black folks are arrested and jailed at a much higher rate than their white peers. The entire prison system needs a drastic overhaul. That is an area where racism is very obvious. If drugs were decriminalized or made legal, this would save a huge amount of public funding, some of which could be used to provide rehab to those who want help, needle exchange programs, safe spaces to use hard core drugs for those who don't feel they can be helped etc.

And, while I totally agree that there is systemic racism in many areas of the US, it helps to also elevate poor white communities. Perhaps I feel that way because I live in city where mixed race relationships and children are extremely common. Lift up those who are in poverty so that poor white folks won't feel neglected. Attacking poverty lifts people of all ethnic backgrounds.

But, one of the best ways to help decrease racism is to encourage people to have integrated schools, work places and neighborhoods. I live in a neighborhood that has become far more integrated over the past few years. I love it. I think it helps white people who may never have had much contact with black people get to know them and understand that we are all human and our cultural differences should be appreciated, not condemned. It also helps black people realize that white people aren't all hateful racists and we welcome diversity into our neighborhoods. Yes. I'm being idealistic, but one needs to be idealistic if we think we can tackle systemic racism.
 
Poverty is still a huge problem in white neighborhoods and in rural America, which is largely white. As controversial as this will be, the best way to promote racial equality is to help everyone out of poverty. A whole lot of white people resent Affirmative Action and therefore black people because they see affirmative action as giving special privileges to people because of the color of their skin. Of course, white people get special privileges every day of their lives but when you are struggling to keep a roof over your head and food in your kids' bellies and hate the thought of your kid not facing the same means taking a job in the city far away, it's easy to see why people look for any easy target to resent. Of course poor white people are treated better than poor black people and in many ways, better than middle class or wealthy black people. But when you are sitting at or near the bottom with few options to help yourself out, it's really easy to look for easy targets. Racists have done such a good job convincing a lot of people that black people's problems are their own damn fault and that ANYBODY can succeed if they are just willing to put in the effort that it's easier to see faults with people who look a little different than your family.

The real problem is that wages have been stagnant for far too long and that basic human needs such as good health care, good education and decent housing are out of reach for far too many working people. Of all races. Yes, it has hit black and brown people harder but that does not make it more tolerable to working poor white people who struggle mightily to survive.

In general terms, people who are well educated tend to be less racist and more tolerant, period. It's not universally true but in general, it is true.

And honestly: we have got to do something about the drug problem in this country. Ironically, I am not talking about legalizing everything. I don't think that's the right approach. Extremely expanded mental health care is a huge part of the solution.
 
Improving health outcomes is always worth striving for. Things like pre-natal and ante-natal health for new mothers& infants can make a huge difference and benefit to the lives & communities that had little before hand.

I have already been impressed by how microloans for small businesses, usually home based,can make a difference when properly targeted and managed.

But how do you address the health inequality of those outcomes? If you improve them, but still leave Black Americans with lowER quality, then there is a problem. How do you make sure that this improved outcome is available to everyone?
 
Poverty is a huge problem in minority neighborhoods so let's start there. Decreasing poverty will help both poor black and poor white citizens.

1. Increase the minimum wage and then adjust it yearly based on inflation. This will help the black community the most, but poor white folks will also benefit from this.

2. Provide some form of UHC. It doesn't have to be single payer. There are many ways to provide UHC. We just need to work towards the goal of having all citizens having access to medical care.

3. Teach nutrition in the schools, starting at a very young age. Obesity is a huge problem in poorer communities, especially in areas that are primarily made up of minorities. Perhaps if chidden are taught good basic nutritions and if school lunches are more nutritious, children will establish better eating habits, leading to better health outcomes.

4.Improve training, salaries and educational requirements for policing and hold police responsible for inappropriate actions.

5. Provide programs that encourage more minorities to go into teaching and medicine. We need more black medical providers. From what I've read and been told, there are a lot of black men who don't feel comfortable with a white provider. I'm happy to say that there are far more black nurses then there were when I started my own career, but there are still too few black physicians and NPs. Recruit more. Racism is a fairly big problem in health care. Black patients are often treated differently from white patients. That needs to change.

6. Decriminalize recreational drugs. I read yesterday that about 50% of current inmates are there for drug charges. That's insane. Why are we locking up people for using drugs which are often less harmful than ETOH. While statistically, just as many white people use illegal recreational drugs as black people, black folks are arrested and jailed at a much higher rate than their white peers. The entire prison system needs a drastic overhaul. That is an area where racism is very obvious. If drugs were decriminalized or made legal, this would save a huge amount of public funding, some of which could be used to provide rehab to those who want help, needle exchange programs, safe spaces to use hard core drugs for those who don't feel they can be helped etc.

And, while I totally agree that there is systemic racism in many areas of the US, it helps to also elevate poor white communities. Perhaps I feel that way because I live in city where mixed race relationships and children are extremely common. Lift up those who are in poverty so that poor white folks won't feel neglected. Attacking poverty lifts people of all ethnic backgrounds.

But, one of the best ways to help decrease racism is to encourage people to have integrated schools, work places and neighborhoods. I live in a neighborhood that has become far more integrated over the past few years. I love it. I think it helps white people who may never have had much contact with black people get to know them and understand that we are all human and our cultural differences should be appreciated, not condemned. It also helps black people realize that white people don't aren't all hateful racists and we welcome diversity into our neighborhoods. Yes. I'm being idealistic, but one needs to be idealistic if we think we can tackle systemic racism.

^ This is the answer.

I saw an interview with the CEO of one of the large Eastern banks, JP Morgan I think, who was introduced as the only head of a major bank during both the 2007 Great Recession and today's COVID-19 economic crash, already a certain economic depression. He was saying that his bank was introducing a program that would encourage the one sure path to reduce poverty in the US, technical training. I want to tell him that the only way to reduce poverty is obvious, to pay the poor more for the hard work that they already do. That poverty is an economic problem, not a problem of the lack of training or incentive for those who are poor. Technical training is a wonderful way for individuals to better themselves but is not a way

We have to pushback on this widely accepted narrative the bank CEO is pushing, a long way toward blaming the poor for their own poverty.

Racism is a problem that I have no answer for. My parents ill-equipped me for dealing with the problem. They were white political conservatives in the segregated South, Texas, in the 1950s and 60s, but they infused in me by their behavior and consistent messaging that the entire concept of race is baseless, an invention to enable the social and economic derogation of a group of people by another group. This doesn't go well when talking to people whose worldviews are based on the surety of the existence of different races with different characters.

I believe that like me you live in Atlanta. If so, (and if not I have to blame my faulty old man memory,) you see that the current generation is much further along to solve the problem than my generation (boomers) ever was, because in my parts of the city, Midtown and Gwinnett county, every fourth or fifth young couple you see are interracial. It is hard to hate an entire so-called race when your grandchildren are members of it. Or your friends' and neighbors' grandchildren are.
 
Improving health outcomes is always worth striving for. Things like pre-natal and ante-natal health for new mothers& infants can make a huge difference and benefit to the lives & communities that had little before hand.

I have already been impressed by how microloans for small businesses, usually home based,can make a difference when properly targeted and managed.


But how do you address the health inequality of those outcomes? If you improve them, but still leave Black Americans with lowER quality, then there is a problem. How do you make sure that this improved outcome is available to everyone?

Is that possible? Give two kids--one white, one black--a basketball and let them shoot a free throw. How do you make sure that they both make the basket? They were both given equal opportunities, but how do you make sure they have equal outcomes?
 
Improving health outcomes is always worth striving for. Things like pre-natal and ante-natal health for new mothers& infants can make a huge difference and benefit to the lives & communities that had little before hand.

I have already been impressed by how microloans for small businesses, usually home based,can make a difference when properly targeted and managed.


But how do you address the health inequality of those outcomes? If you improve them, but still leave Black Americans with lowER quality, then there is a problem. How do you make sure that this improved outcome is available to everyone?

Is that possible? Give two kids--one white, one black--a basketball and let them shoot a free throw. How do you make sure that they both make the basket? They were both given equal opportunities, but how do you make sure they have equal outcomes?

The stipulation set forth in the OP is to avoid observations like this and assume any disparity is due to unseen evilness.
 
Improving health outcomes is always worth striving for. Things like pre-natal and ante-natal health for new mothers& infants can make a huge difference and benefit to the lives & communities that had little before hand.

I have already been impressed by how microloans for small businesses, usually home based,can make a difference when properly targeted and managed.


But how do you address the health inequality of those outcomes? If you improve them, but still leave Black Americans with lowER quality, then there is a problem. How do you make sure that this improved outcome is available to everyone?

Is that possible? Give two kids--one white, one black--a basketball and let them shoot a free throw. How do you make sure that they both make the basket? They were both given equal opportunities, but how do you make sure they have equal outcomes?

You don't do it with one person, you do it with 100,000,000 or more people. That's how.
They won't all make the basket, but if the numbers at the end of the day are not nearly equal, then causes for that inequality need to be ferreted out and addressed.
Saying the problem is intractable because white people are just better basketball players, is a convenient falsehood, aka BULLSHIT.
 
Is that possible? Give two kids--one white, one black--a basketball and let them shoot a free throw. How do you make sure that they both make the basket? They were both given equal opportunities, but how do you make sure they have equal outcomes?

You don't do it with one person, you do it with 100,000,000 or more people. That's how.
They won't all make the basket, but if the numbers at the end of the day are not nearly equal, then causes for that inequality need to be ferreted out and addressed.
Saying the problem is intractable because white people are just better basketball players, is a convenient falsehood, aka BULLSHIT.

I don't believe I said that the problem is intractable because white people are just better basketball players.
 
Is that possible? Give two kids--one white, one black--a basketball and let them shoot a free throw. How do you make sure that they both make the basket? They were both given equal opportunities, but how do you make sure they have equal outcomes?

The stipulation set forth in the OP is to avoid observations like this and assume any disparity is due to unseen evilness.
WTF? Unequal outcomes that are undesirable should be avoided. This has nothing whatsoever to do with "evilness" - it has to do with basic human decency. If group X has worse health outcomes with the same available resources, the OP is asking what can society do to improve those health outcomes.
 
Not all kids need to be able to hit the free throw. But everybody should still get to have good education, good health care and decent housing and good food. Anyone who breaks a rule gets the same compassion and mercy, necessary components of justice. Remember,not everyone wants to hit that freethrow. Some would rather be guards. Some will be better at the three pointers and really can’t deal with the pressure of the free throw. Some would rather be in the pep squad. Someone has to keep score. Someone needs to be the coach, the trainer, the red. Some would rather write about the game—or give the play by play. Some would rather be reading a book. At least one will ask why the ball needs to go through the basket anyways. Who is going to design, sew and wash the uniforms? Some people would rather play chess or soccer or climb a tree. Or fish. Grow flowers or beans. Sit under a tree and contemplate their navel. Or your navel. Someone will be the team manager. Someone will mostly warm the bench. It a million other things.

Not everyone will be good st sinking a shot, no matter how much they practice. Some will never care about making a free throw.

Some will feel happiest in a large city. Others will prefer the quiet of a rural life. Some will be nomads, explorers. Dreamers. Somevwill want to live in the biggest, fanciest house on the block. Others will prefer a cozy little cottage or an efficiency somewhere. Some will see success measured in how much stuff they own. Or how much (whatever) they control. Others in how many friends they have or how thin they are or millions of other things.

We need them all. and all of them need good education, good health care, good opportunities for the life they want to live. And equal protection under the law. Regardless of whether they are rich or poor. Healthy or not so healthy. Some will need many chances and others will get it, whatever ‘it’ is the first time.

We can’t and should not expect or even desire an equal outcome if that’s measured by success from the free throw line. We should expect that everybody has a good education, good health care, a decent home and sufficient good food and clean water. And equal protection under the law.
 
FYI, in case this is confusing for anyone, free-throws are not a healthcare outcome.

That was a derail, I am ignoring it.
 
Poverty is a huge problem in minority neighborhoods so let's start there. Decreasing poverty will help both poor black and poor white citizens.

1. Increase the minimum wage and then adjust it yearly based on inflation. This will help the black community the most, but poor white folks will also benefit from this.

No. The problem is far more a lack of hours worked than the rate they work at. Raising it just makes it harder to get in the labor force.

2. Provide some form of UHC. It doesn't have to be single payer. There are many ways to provide UHC. We just need to work towards the goal of having all citizens having access to medical care.

What I would like to see is to take the ACA, tie the max deductible and stop-loss to x% of AGI and provide a government subsidy for the amount of the cheapest policy you qualify for. You don't take any action, you're auto-placed in that plan. Employers may provide better coverage, if they do that subsidy goes to them.

3. Teach nutrition in the schools, starting at a very young age. Obesity is a huge problem in poorer communities, especially in areas that are primarily made up of minorities. Perhaps if chidden are taught good basic nutritions and if school lunches are more nutritious, children will establish better eating habits, leading to better health outcomes.

Nutrition and life skills in general.

5. Provide programs that encourage more minorities to go into teaching and medicine. We need more black medical providers. From what I've read and been told, there are a lot of black men who don't feel comfortable with a white provider. I'm happy to say that there are far more black nurses then there were when I started my own career, but there are still too few black physicians and NPs. Recruit more. Racism is a fairly big problem in health care. Black patients are often treated differently from white patients. That needs to change.

"Encourage" is one of those meaningless ideas that sound good. It doesn't do squat in the modern world, its failure just "evidence" of deep seated discrimination and quickly ends up with legally sanctioned discrimination (aka "affirmative action").

6. Decriminalize recreational drugs. I read yesterday that about 50% of current inmates are there for drug charges. That's insane. Why are we locking up people for using drugs which are often less harmful than ETOH. While statistically, just as many white people use illegal recreational drugs as black people, black folks are arrested and jailed at a much higher rate than their white peers. The entire prison system needs a drastic overhaul. That is an area where racism is very obvious. If drugs were decriminalized or made legal, this would save a huge amount of public funding, some of which could be used to provide rehab to those who want help, needle exchange programs, safe spaces to use hard core drugs for those who don't feel they can be helped etc.

I hate "decriminalize". Legal or not legal, no gray areas. Anything non-addictive, legal. Those with hostile use potential, tread with caution. Addictive, but not hostile, legal by prescription, addiction is explicitly a valid reason for a prescription and declared not to be malpractice.

And, while I totally agree that there is systemic racism in many areas of the US, it helps to also elevate poor white communities. Perhaps I feel that way because I live in city where mixed race relationships and children are extremely common. Lift up those who are in poverty so that poor white folks won't feel neglected. Attacking poverty lifts people of all ethnic backgrounds.

Take this a bit farther. We shouldn't be trying to help black people, we should be trying to help those in poverty whatever color their skin is.

But, one of the best ways to help decrease racism is to encourage people to have integrated schools, work places and neighborhoods. I live in a neighborhood that has become far more integrated over the past few years. I love it. I think it helps white people who may never have had much contact with black people get to know them and understand that we are all human and our cultural differences should be appreciated, not condemned. It also helps black people realize that white people aren't all hateful racists and we welcome diversity into our neighborhoods. Yes. I'm being idealistic, but one needs to be idealistic if we think we can tackle systemic racism.

The problem comes when you mix students of very different ability. That just causes parents who care about their kids education to put their kids in private school or move away.

And I'll add 7: Quit this focus on race. It's used to deflect blame from internal problems and thus does a lot to perpetuate the issue.
 
Is that possible? Give two kids--one white, one black--a basketball and let them shoot a free throw. How do you make sure that they both make the basket? They were both given equal opportunities, but how do you make sure they have equal outcomes?

You don't do it with one person, you do it with 100,000,000 or more people. That's how.
They won't all make the basket, but if the numbers at the end of the day are not nearly equal, then causes for that inequality need to be ferreted out and addressed.
Saying the problem is intractable because white people are just better basketball players, is a convenient falsehood, aka BULLSHIT.

I don't believe I said that the problem is intractable because white people are just better basketball players.

I inferred it, having seen similar analogies used to overtly or subtly imply it. My point stands; if you want to solve the problem, you look at the big picture, not this or that miscreant.
 
And I'll add 7: Quit this focus on race. It's used to deflect blame from internal problems and thus does a lot to perpetuate the issue.

TThe thread stipulates that racial inequality exists. If you want to aregue that point, start your own thread. This one is to hear discussion on how to fix the inequality, and “just ignore it,” is the worst answer I can think of.
 
Poverty is a huge problem in minority neighborhoods so let's start there. Decreasing poverty will help both poor black and poor white citizens.

1. Increase the minimum wage and then adjust it yearly based on inflation. This will help the black community the most, but poor white folks will also benefit from this.

2. Provide some form of UHC. It doesn't have to be single payer. There are many ways to provide UHC. We just need to work towards the goal of having all citizens having access to medical care.

3. Teach nutrition in the schools, starting at a very young age. Obesity is a huge problem in poorer communities, especially in areas that are primarily made up of minorities. Perhaps if chidden are taught good basic nutritions and if school lunches are more nutritious, children will establish better eating habits, leading to better health outcomes.

4.Improve training, salaries and educational requirements for policing and hold police responsible for inappropriate actions.

5. Provide programs that encourage more minorities to go into teaching and medicine. We need more black medical providers. From what I've read and been told, there are a lot of black men who don't feel comfortable with a white provider. I'm happy to say that there are far more black nurses then there were when I started my own career, but there are still too few black physicians and NPs. Recruit more. Racism is a fairly big problem in health care. Black patients are often treated differently from white patients. That needs to change.

6. Decriminalize recreational drugs. I read yesterday that about 50% of current inmates are there for drug charges. That's insane. Why are we locking up people for using drugs which are often less harmful than ETOH. While statistically, just as many white people use illegal recreational drugs as black people, black folks are arrested and jailed at a much higher rate than their white peers. The entire prison system needs a drastic overhaul. That is an area where racism is very obvious. If drugs were decriminalized or made legal, this would save a huge amount of public funding, some of which could be used to provide rehab to those who want help, needle exchange programs, safe spaces to use hard core drugs for those who don't feel they can be helped etc.

And, while I totally agree that there is systemic racism in many areas of the US, it helps to also elevate poor white communities. Perhaps I feel that way because I live in city where mixed race relationships and children are extremely common. Lift up those who are in poverty so that poor white folks won't feel neglected. Attacking poverty lifts people of all ethnic backgrounds.

But, one of the best ways to help decrease racism is to encourage people to have integrated schools, work places and neighborhoods. I live in a neighborhood that has become far more integrated over the past few years. I love it. I think it helps white people who may never have had much contact with black people get to know them and understand that we are all human and our cultural differences should be appreciated, not condemned. It also helps black people realize that white people aren't all hateful racists and we welcome diversity into our neighborhoods. Yes. I'm being idealistic, but one needs to be idealistic if we think we can tackle systemic racism.

Those are ideas that will help all poor people, but which parts are there to reduce inequality? If it is worse being poor and black than being poor and white, how has this helped the fact that Black Americans face inequality. Is it enough to say, “you’re still unequal, but you’re better off than you were before; you’re still peddling uphill and someone has put your brakes on, but at least you have a bike now, right?”
 
Note: This thread is to discuss how equality can be brought to fruition.

THIS THREAD STIPULATES that racial inequality exists and has manifested in financial inequality, inequality of opportunity, inequality in justice, inequality in health.
If you do not stipulate this as true for the sake of this discussion, then go start your own thread about WHETHER racial inequality exists.

This thread STIPULATES that racial financial inequality exists. That racial opportunity inequality exists.



So for all those who wish to discuss mechanisms of change having stipulated that the inequality exists:


What are some methods and acts that can change inequality to equality? How long do they need to come to fruition? What cost needs to be borne to accomplish these things? I am thinking of things like
  • Improving educaational equality by providing more resources to low-income schools. Property taxes as school funding is inherently unequal and creates/perpetuates inequality.

True but state wide funding also creates and perpetuates vast inequalities, no matter the racial make up of the student body. Written by someone who lives in a state that attempted to dispel property tax inequalities--and failed to do so. Wealthy suburbs still are able to pass referendum in order to supplement student funding. Rural districts still have large expenses for transportation not borne by suburban and urban schools. And so on.


[*]Improving health equality by funding studies into why there are differences in health outcomes, or by funding nutrition education and nutrition availability.


Things llike that. Thoughts?

We have HeadStart, which still does carry some stigma.

Universal preschool would help but would help the most is economic integration of neighborhoods and schools. Most people have trouble demonizing people they actually know or foisting horrific racial stereotypes upon them when they live next door.
 
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Improving health outcomes is always worth striving for. Things like pre-natal and ante-natal health for new mothers& infants can make a huge difference and benefit to the lives & communities that had little before hand.

I have already been impressed by how microloans for small businesses, usually home based,can make a difference when properly targeted and managed.

But how do you address the health inequality of those outcomes? If you improve them, but still leave Black Americans with lowER quality, then there is a problem. How do you make sure that this improved outcome is available to everyone?

I am not exactly what you mean by inequality of outcomes?

Any programmes should be available to all regardless of location, skin colour, religion etc.
Certain groups, due to particular circumstances, may require differing emphases or content but these are not insurmountable.
 
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