Police Misconduct Catch All Thread

[Angry Floof]

Seriously, learn about balance of power, abuse of power, holding power accountable. We have one of the worst police forces in the world in terms of brutality and human rights and yet you'd have us believe the problem lies with the citizens they brutalize.

It amazes me that anyone person could hold this viewpoint. Just so contrary to reality.

It amazes me that anyone (anyone person?) could be so incapable of holding power accountable. Just so contrary to reality as well as contrary to humane principles, courage, honesty, and integrity, but well aligned with bigotry, fear, ignorance, and bootlicking.

World Justice Project ranks US law enforcement at #11 in the world.

Prison Policy Initiative says, "Not just “a few bad apples”: U.S. police kill civilians at much higher rates than other countries
Police violence is a systemic problem in the U.S., not simply incidental, and it happens on a scale far greater than other wealthy nations."

The Council on Foreign Relations:
* Other advanced democracies organize, fund, train, arm, and discipline their police officers differently than the United States does.
* Many countries, including the United States, struggle with police brutality and tense relations between law enforcement and minority communities.
* The United States far exceeds most wealthy democracies in killings by police, and officers seldom face legal consequences.

The Cato Institute ranks the US at 23rd in human rights. 23rd, not the #1 that blind right wing morons believe it is, utterly contrary to reality.

 

[Trausti]

Seriously, learn about balance of power, abuse of power, holding power accountable. We have one of the worst police forces in the world in terms of brutality and human rights and yet you'd have us believe the problem lies with the citizens they brutalize.

It amazes me that anyone person could hold this viewpoint. Just so contrary to reality.

It amazes me that anyone (anyone person?) could be so incapable of holding power accountable. Just so contrary to reality as well as contrary to humane principles, courage, honesty, and integrity, but well aligned with bigotry, fear, ignorance, and bootlicking.

World Justice Project ranks US law enforcement at #11 in the world.

Prison Policy Initiative says, "Not just “a few bad apples”: U.S. police kill civilians at much higher rates than other countries
Police violence is a systemic problem in the U.S., not simply incidental, and it happens on a scale far greater than other wealthy nations."

The Council on Foreign Relations:
* Other advanced democracies organize, fund, train, arm, and discipline their police officers differently than the United States does.
* Many countries, including the United States, struggle with police brutality and tense relations between law enforcement and minority communities.
* The United States far exceeds most wealthy democracies in killings by police, and officers seldom face legal consequences.

The Cato Institute ranks the US at 23rd in human rights. 23rd, not the #1 that blind right wing morons believe it is, utterly contrary to reality.

For several months, people who live in the Jordan neighborhood in north Minneapolis have been asking for more police protection. Cathy Spann is one of those residents.

“Every single night on any block in this neighborhood you can hear gunshots!” Spann said. “Every single freaking night!”

Spann and seven other residents have sued the city of Minneapolis, and they had their day in court Monday, where a judge heard their pleas for help. Attorney James Dickey is representing the residents.

8 North Minneapolis Residents Sue City For Lack Of Police Protection

Go on, tell these people they are wrong. Why would they want police brutality and violation of human rights in their neighborhood? Or is this one of the many instances where the liberal in the safe neighborhood doesn't understand how the other half lives?

 

[Angry Floof]

It amazes me that anyone (anyone person?) could be so incapable of holding power accountable. Just so contrary to reality as well as contrary to humane principles, courage, honesty, and integrity, but well aligned with bigotry, fear, ignorance, and bootlicking.

World Justice Project ranks US law enforcement at #11 in the world.

Prison Policy Initiative says, "Not just “a few bad apples”: U.S. police kill civilians at much higher rates than other countries
Police violence is a systemic problem in the U.S., not simply incidental, and it happens on a scale far greater than other wealthy nations."

The Council on Foreign Relations:
* Other advanced democracies organize, fund, train, arm, and discipline their police officers differently than the United States does.
* Many countries, including the United States, struggle with police brutality and tense relations between law enforcement and minority communities.
* The United States far exceeds most wealthy democracies in killings by police, and officers seldom face legal consequences.

The Cato Institute ranks the US at 23rd in human rights. 23rd, not the #1 that blind right wing morons believe it is, utterly contrary to reality.

For several months, people who live in the Jordan neighborhood in north Minneapolis have been asking for more police protection. Cathy Spann is one of those residents.

“Every single night on any block in this neighborhood you can hear gunshots!” Spann said. “Every single freaking night!”

Spann and seven other residents have sued the city of Minneapolis, and they had their day in court Monday, where a judge heard their pleas for help. Attorney James Dickey is representing the residents.

8 North Minneapolis Residents Sue City For Lack Of Police Protection

Go on, tell these people they are wrong. Why would they want police brutality and violation of human rights in their neighborhood? Or is this one of the many instances where the liberal in the safe neighborhood doesn't understand how the other half lives?

Yeah, that's the ticket.

Anyone can find individual examples to support what they want to see, and this one you picked doesn't relate in any way to the fact that police all over the country are violent thugs to people they think can't or won't fight back. This local story has no relevance to the reality that US police are some of the most brutal in the so-called free world.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The reality is most fields develop concise terms for things they deal with. Verbose terms such as yours always lose out.

Those terms are not "Concise." They are GROTESQUE.

The two are not incompatible.

And you are not in that field.

So? I try to use the terms of any field I'm talking about.

And moreover in many fields where they have a term like that it is obviously considered inappropriate for lay people to use the term outside of its field.

Why?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Again, what a fantasy you live in. Police brutalize people regardless of what they have done. Sometimes the person poses a threat, but often they don't and cops kill or beat them anyway, and then after the fact come up with past crimes or minor, non-threatening nonsense and pretend they were scared.

Seriously, try to be a better human and learn to hold power and authority accountable.

Nice job of distorting the picture.

When police shoot or employ other obviously lethal force it's almost always justified. They aren't making things up.

The problem comes from lesser force. George Floyd is a prime example--it's pretty obvious they wanted to hurt him a bit because of his behavior when arrested. Those are the cases with a high rate of not being justified.

When you lump them you portray a very different picture than reality.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Have you not been paying attention? Note how the problem went way down when the feds quit stirring the pot.

Feds weren't "stirring the pot". The Antifa riots were going on long before Trump sent in the feds.

And note that some targets of left wing violence were federal. ICE building for example or a federal courthouse.

Before the feds got involved it was a minor issue. After the feds quit it again became a minor issue.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Seriously, learn about balance of power, abuse of power, holding power accountable. We have one of the worst police forces in the world in terms of brutality and human rights and yet you'd have us believe the problem lies with the citizens they brutalize.

You are seriously out of touch with the world with this claim.

It amazes me that anyone (anyone person?) could be so incapable of holding power accountable. Just so contrary to reality as well as contrary to humane principles, courage, honesty, and integrity, but well aligned with bigotry, fear, ignorance, and bootlicking.

World Justice Project ranks US law enforcement at #11 in the world.

Foot, meet bullet. You just showed that the US barely misses being in the top 10 percent. How do you reconcile that with claiming "one of the worst"??

 

[Angry Floof]

Seriously, learn about balance of power, abuse of power, holding power accountable. We have one of the worst police forces in the world in terms of brutality and human rights and yet you'd have us believe the problem lies with the citizens they brutalize.

You are seriously out of touch with the world with this claim.

You're right. I should have said, "in the developed world" or "among the wealthiest nations." There's no excuse.

Learn to hold power accountable, Loren.

 

[Worldtraveller]

The reality is most fields develop concise terms for things they deal with. Verbose terms such as yours always lose out.

Those terms are not "Concise." They are GROTESQUE.
And you are not in that field.
And moreover in many fields where they have a term like that it is obviously considered inappropriate for lay people to use the term outside of its field.

No matter what excuse you want to give the police for using it, it NEVER changes how cruel and disturbing it is when YOU use it, on this forum.

Also, he was just following orders....

 

[ZiprHead]

[TWEET]<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Imagine if this cop knew Jiu Jitsu, what more extensive damage could he do? I’m looking forward to wading into <a href="https://twitter.com/GspotMMA?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@GspotMMA</a>’s topic on the tonight’s <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/SHOTSFIRED?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#SHOTSFIRED</a> recording... <a href="https://t.co/96bJXB0jXO">pic.twitter.com/96bJXB0jXO</a></p>— Michael Morgan (@mikewhoatv) <a href="https://twitter.com/mikewhoatv/status/1321504072726388736?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 28, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>[/TWEET]

Dalia Kafi, the victim, had been arrested for breaching a court-ordered curfew and was held at the CPS arrest processing unit when she was injured by Dunn’s use of force.

Kafi was 26 at the time.

A 30-year officer who witnessed the violent incident called it the “worst use of force” he’d ever seen. On Monday, provincial court Judge Michelle Christopher agreed to release the video of the incident to members of the media.

https://percolately.com/constable-face-first-excessive-force/?fbclid=IwAR0z-whCcwMXdW_b034zhPI0npQ_eD-a5X6I8VjekE2WCLbQZKlYL-vXilE

 

[ZiprHead]

Third LMPD officer pleads guilty to sexual abuse of minor in Explorer program

A third Louisville Metro Police officer has pleaded guilty to sexually abusing a minor in the Explorer Scout program for youths aspiring to be in law enforcement.

Brad Schuhmann, a former Explorer adviser, admitted Monday in U.S. District Court in Louisville that he sexually abused a scout in 2010, the year he was sworn in as an officer.

A grand jury indicted Schuhmann on Nov. 3 on a misdemeanor count of "deprivation of rights under color of law."

The civil rights violation is punishable by up to a year in prison. Federal prosecutors said in court Monday they're recommending a penalty at the lowest end of sentencing guidelines.

U.S. District Judge Rebecca Grady Jennings will ultimately decide his sentence. Per the plea agreement, Schuhmann will have to register as a sex offender.

 

[Gospel]

Personally, I believe the police are needed and should get paid more than what they are. I also believe that any officer who breaks the law should be held accountable. I also don't know how widespread police corruption is but I do know that it's a thing from first hand experience and actual cases that led to convictions. Does anyone here believe that our police force gets it right &/or does the lawful thing every time? I doubt that there is anyone on this board that believes that so what's the deal here? Is it a disagreement with the amount of corruption? Is it the amount of times an officer is found to be in the wrong? Is it a case by case argument where the disagreement is whether or not this or that instance was lawful? Forgive me for being the simple man that I am, but I just don't get what the debate is really about here. Don't agree with or support BLM because they speak out against police in cases that you believe the police were justified? That's cool but what about those cases where the police aren't justified? I understand the anger from those advocating for the victims, the victims (if their alive to show it) & the loved ones of victims of police brutality. I also understand the anger from those advocating for the safety of officers, advocating for our officers killed in the line of duty, & their loved ones. I just fail to see how the two are at odds with one another over anything other than legal & statistical matters.

Edit: Changed one word bold.

 

[Angry Floof]

Personally, I believe the police are needed and should get paid more than what they are. I also believe that any officer who breaks the law should be held accountable. I also don't know how widespread police corruption is but I do know that it's a thing from first hand experience and actual cases that led to convictions. Does anyone here believe that our police force gets it right &/or does the lawful thing every time? I doubt that there is anyone on this board that believes that so what's the deal here? Is it a disagreement with the amount of corruption? Is it the amount of times an officer is found to be in the wrong? Is it a case by case argument where the disagreement is whether or not this or that instance was lawful? Forgive me for being the simple man that I am, but I just don't get what the debate is really about here. Don't agree with or support BLM because they speak out against police in cases that you believe the police were justified? That's cool but what about those cases where the police aren't justified? I understand the anger from those advocating for the victims, the victims (if their alive to show it) & the loved ones of victims of police brutality. I also understand the anger from those advocating for the safety of officers, advocating for our officers killed in the line of duty, & their loved ones. I just fail to see how the two are at odds with one another over anything other than legal & statistical matters.

Edit: Changed one word bold.

The disagreement is between people who object to police abusing their power, which they do routinely because they are trained to dehumanize citizens, and people who worship authority and think that authority figures are not to be questioned. You can tell the latter because the first thing they typically say about a police brutality story is that the victim had a criminal record or jaywalked or some shit, so therefore police were right to murder them in the street.

 

[Gospel]

I've seen that here (cough Derec) multiple times so I concede that's a thing here. I just don't think the folks who are guilty of doing that here actually believes the police or 100% infallible all of the time. They are disagreeing in that instance at specific time (mostly too early) for whatever reason whether we find their reasoning agreeable or not. I haven't seen any real discussion here on the topic other than two or more people having a one way conversation. What I mean is there are no concessions or better put acknowledgements (expressed understanding?) of opposing views. It's mainly some weird I can't be bested by the other sides argument sort of thing. I'm trying but I'm struggling to express myself here hahahaha.

 

[Angry Floof]

I've seen that here (cough Derec) multiple times so I concede that's a thing here. I just don't think the folks who are guilty of doing that here actually believes the police or 100% infallible all of the time. They are disagreeing in that instance at specific time (mostly too early) for whatever reason whether we find their reasoning agreeable or not. I haven't seen any real discussion here on the topic other than two or more people having a one way conversation. What I mean is there are no concessions or better put acknowledgements (expressed understanding?) of opposing views. It's mainly some weird I can't be bested by the other sides argument sort of thing. I'm trying but I'm struggling to express myself here hahahaha.

For some, maybe. For me, it's holding power accountable, and some people are incapable of that if it's a cop except in the most blatant of cases, but even then they'll first exhaust all possible excuses for the police.

No authoritarian, fascist, tyrannical regime can exist among people who protect the weakest among us and question authority.

 

[Gospel]

I've seen that here (cough Derec) multiple times so I concede that's a thing here. I just don't think the folks who are guilty of doing that here actually believes the police or 100% infallible all of the time. They are disagreeing in that instance at specific time (mostly too early) for whatever reason whether we find their reasoning agreeable or not. I haven't seen any real discussion here on the topic other than two or more people having a one way conversation. What I mean is there are no concessions or better put acknowledgements (expressed understanding?) of opposing views. It's mainly some weird I can't be bested by the other sides argument sort of thing. I'm trying but I'm struggling to express myself here hahahaha.

For some, maybe. For me, it's holding power accountable, and some people are incapable of that if it's a cop except in the most blatant of cases, but even then they'll first exhaust all possible excuses for the police.

No authoritarian, fascist, tyrannical regime can exist among people who protect the weakest among us and question authority.

but even then they'll first exhaust all possible excuses for the police.

I don't see an issue with that especially in the courts. I just wish it was done across the board (for civilian and police). The issue, and obviously you know this, is the accountability for law enforcement part.

No authoritarian, fascist, tyrannical regime can exist among people who protect the weakest among us and question authority.

I agree. I feel my options are to be better than them at every corner of the world without mimicking them. The civil rights movement comes to mind as an example of fighting an enemy and winning without resembling them. A lot of lives were taken for the benefits we have today. Clearly by benefits I do not mean to imply that the freedoms obtained weren't birth rights to begin with. Freedom ain't some fucking reward for the civil rights movement it shouldn't have been withheld in the first place. But I digress. I agree and find a lot of your posts agreeable as well.

 

[Angry Floof]

My first comment was about ordinary people, not courts. But at that level of courts and governments, accountability and justice are sorely lacking.

Not sure what you mean about not mimicking fascists. No one who opposes fascists or questions authority has oppressed the powerless or sucked up to the powerful against the powerless. It's kind of in the definitions.

 

[Gospel]

My first comment was about ordinary people, not courts. But at that level of courts and governments, accountability and justice are sorely lacking.

Not sure what you mean about not mimicking fascists. No one who opposes fascists or questions authority has oppressed the powerless or sucked up to the powerful against the powerless. It's kind of in the definitions.

Ordinary people operate the courts and every level of government. But I understand what you mean by ordinary people. I just do not see an issue with exhausting all possible excuses** for the police. It's just an issue when a person (more specifically a fellow forum user) doesn't do the same for the civilian. In by opinion exhausting all possibilities should be welcome in our courtrooms/forums and to my knowledge they are if evidence supports it.

No one who opposes fascists or questions authority has oppressed the powerless? I don't know if that's true. My anecdotal experience with antiracists and anti-fascists' in my circle is I can't have a conversation that exhausts all possibilities with them without being accused of being an apologist so there's that. But I guess by oppression you may mean on a much larger scale than simple dialogue between friends family &/or a forum user.

**I don't characterize them as excuses

Edit: Tweaked some words to improve delivery. I really need to proof read.

 

[Angry Floof]

My first comment was about ordinary people, not courts. But at that level of courts and governments, accountability and justice are sorely lacking.

Not sure what you mean about not mimicking fascists. No one who opposes fascists or questions authority has oppressed the powerless or sucked up to the powerful against the powerless. It's kind of in the definitions.

Ordinary people operate the courts and every level of government. But I understand that you were talking about ordinary people. I just do not see an issue with exhausting all possible excuses** for the police. It's just an issue when a person (more specifically a fellow forum user) doesn't do the same for the civilian. In by opinion exhausting all possibilities should be welcome in our courtrooms and to my knowledge they are if evidence supports it.

**I don't characterize them as excuses

When I say exhausting all excuses, I'm just talking about a mentality where they are just not willing to accept that police are wrong and even if they agree to some level of wrongdoing on the part of police, they will downplay it and return the focus to the "criminal" and why it was fine for police to execute them in the streets.

No one who opposes fascists or questions authority has oppressed the powerless? I don't know if that's true. My anecdotal experience with antiracists and anti-fascists' in my circle is I can't have a conversation that exhausts all possibilities with them without being accused of being an apologist so there's that. But I guess by oppression you may mean on a much larger scale than simple dialogue between friends family &/or a forum user.

If you think that someone behaving badly or being wrong in a conversation with you or being bullheaded or rude or adamant or angry or mean or upset or even irrational on the topic equates to fascism itself, then I would say you do not know what fascism is and I would invite you to find out. In fact, I would say it is imperative that you be clear on this and not inadvertently be distracted from actual fascist activities on the part of the powerful.

I get this reaction a lot. I know I come off strong and have a sharp tongue. I know I'm angry. I know people often react to me emotionally, as if they are being hurt by my anger or sharp words. And often they will try to use this offendedness at my tone as evidence that I'm "just as bad" or some shit.

I beg of you, and everyone else, please stop thinking that any behavior you don't like or that scares you or hurts your feelings or you perceive to be irrational or wrong or mean is fascism or right wing authoritarianism. IT. IS. NOT. No matter how badly behaved you think someone is in the moment during an argument or during times of unrest and polarization, none of that equates to fascism. None of it makes someone a right wing authoritarian or authoritarian follower. Words have meanings. Please. For fuck's sake, no one is obligated to make themselves more appealing or "nicer" to you in their manner or tone or temper in order for you to accept that they are not RWA or supporters of fascism of any flavor.

 

[Gospel]

When I say exhausting all excuses, I'm just talking about a mentality where they are just not willing to accept that police are wrong and even if they agree to some level of wrongdoing on the part of police, they will downplay it and return the focus to the "criminal" and why it was fine for police to execute them in the streets.

No one who opposes fascists or questions authority has oppressed the powerless? I don't know if that's true. My anecdotal experience with antiracists and anti-fascists' in my circle is I can't have a conversation that exhausts all possibilities with them without being accused of being an apologist so there's that. But I guess by oppression you may mean on a much larger scale than simple dialogue between friends family &/or a forum user.

If you think that someone behaving badly or being wrong in a conversation with you or being bullheaded or rude or adamant or angry or mean or upset or even irrational on the topic equates to fascism itself, then I would say you do not know what fascism is and I would invite you to find out.

I don't think that nor do I feel anything you described in the rest of your comment (thanks for checking?). What I meant to imply is the oppression is entirely over the dialog.