Impeachment II thread

[Elixir]

...how can he now walk away from his duty...

Practice. Lots and lots of practice.

 

[Gospel]

At least she learned her lesson and voted accordingly. Now if you don't mind I'll take my leave, it's time I start a campaign on r/Wallstreetbets to boost popcorn stocks in anticipation of the pending fallout within the republican party.

What fallout? The GOP is just fine. Over half of the GOP in the House voted to cancel EV's in states, including after the insurrection. The State Legislatures are filled with more radical GOP'ers, and McConnell et al are all about the Judges to ensure the legacy.

This continued wet dream that the GOP is on the verge of collapse is delusion. That our democracy is getting to the end point seems rather clear as well, as the Dems take inches and the GOP take yards, forcing the Dems into taking yards which will end with the GOP taking miles.

It's the social chemistry amongst their constituents sir. The main examples stereotypes being the Southern Confederacy, evangelicals & Qanon Shamans alone are enough to boost popcorn shares to new heights. Going to be entertaining seeing republicans wax lyrical for all three groups now that Trump pulled a shit-covered cat out of the bag.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

At least she learned her lesson and voted accordingly. Now if you don't mind I'll take my leave, it's time I start a campaign on r/Wallstreetbets to boost popcorn stocks in anticipation of the pending fallout within the republican party.

What fallout? The GOP is just fine. Over half of the GOP in the House voted to cancel EV's in states, including after the insurrection. The State Legislatures are filled with more radical GOP'ers, and McConnell et al are all about the Judges to ensure the legacy.

This continued wet dream that the GOP is on the verge of collapse is delusion. That our democracy is getting to the end point seems rather clear as well, as the Dems take inches and the GOP take yards, forcing the Dems into taking yards which will end with the GOP taking miles.

It's the social chemistry amongst their constituents sir. The main examples stereotypes being the Southern Confederacy, evangelicals & Qanon Shamans alone are enough to boost popcorn shares to new heights. Going to be entertaining seeing republicans wax lyrical for all three groups now that Trump pulled a shit-covered cat out of the bag.

74 million people voted for Trump. Trump doesn't have 74 million supporters. A lot of those people voted for the asshole they probably didn't like because voting for Biden was impossible. The best a tiny subset could do was vote Libertarian, which made a difference this year.

The GOP didn't hold Trump in check. The Republican voters didn't hold the GOP in check. The demographics might not matter, even with a purple Texas, as the GOP controls those legislatures and will put into effect the laws that helped Stacey Abrams from winning an election in Georgia.

 

[Gospel]

It's the social chemistry amongst their constituents sir. The main examples stereotypes being the Southern Confederacy, evangelicals & Qanon Shamans alone are enough to boost popcorn shares to new heights. Going to be entertaining seeing republicans wax lyrical for all three groups now that Trump pulled a shit-covered cat out of the bag.

74 million people voted for Trump. Trump doesn't have 74 million supporters. A lot of those people voted for the asshole they probably didn't like because voting for Biden was impossible. The best a tiny subset could do was vote Libertarian, which made a difference this year.

The GOP didn't hold Trump in check. The Republican voters didn't hold the GOP in check. The demographics might not matter, even with a purple Texas, as the GOP controls those legislatures and will put into effect the laws that helped Stacey Abrams from winning an election in Georgia.

It's water retracting prior to a tidal wave. Right now Southern confederates aren't happy with Mitch the bitch ass McConnell because Trump is their emperor & while he voted to acquit he still had to tell the truth about Trump's guilt to reassure Evangelicals that Republicans have "Christian values". Have you seen Mike Pence lately? Evangelicals still love him, while Qanon's & confederates want to hang him. The republicans are going to have a difficult time keeping constituents aligned now that all the training performed over the past 4 decades was damaged. And the only unifying element is Trump (the very person that split them). It may seem like business as usual but It's training day again. Been that ways since Trump took office (seen any solid plans/bills/etc produced solely by the republican party since then? Nope, because Trump is a minefield and everyone of them are too pussy to run over him. That's my insane take

 

[ideologyhunter]

The '24 primary scene will be a real pig show. If Trump is physically able to run, he might -- I'd give it 50/50 right now. If not, I think he'd put Don Jr. into the race and then appear with him at every rally. My humble prediction is that MAGA will be a harder sell from now on, and that rising above 40% of the national electorate will be damn near impossible.

 

[Elixir]

The '24 primary scene will be a real pig show. If Trump is physically able to run, he might -- I'd give it 50/50 right now. If not, I think he'd put Don Jr. into the race and then appear with him at every rally. My humble prediction is that MAGA will be a harder sell from now on, and that rising above 40% of the national electorate will be damn near impossible.

I differ. By 3%.
Seems like 43% is the Trump number, his watermark and recurrent theme. It's where Trump's approval rating has averaged, where his acquittal vote stood, his IQ percentile ...

Of course, looking only at the Republican party is another matter.
It must drive Republican "leaders" bonkers, knowing that near 90% of registered Republicans will not pay any attention to the fact that their adored one is and will forever remain a LOSER.
Now, having attracted every idiot and fascist to their ranks, they will have to abide by the will of the very morons they have recruited as their base, even if 43% seems to be their destiny.

 

[ronburgundy]

I see a number of people on the left attacking the Dems for the result, claiming that their failure to call witnesses was what doomed the outcome to failure. Exactly what would any witnesses have testified to that wasn't already beyond reasonable doubt from the extant evidence, such as Trump's own words, what was caught on video, etc.? And would that testimony provide enough added benefit to outweigh giving the defense a cross-examination opportunity to find a red-herring excuse that gave the Republicans cover?

Also, there was zero chance that 17 Republicans were going to have the decency and respect for rule of law and democracy to hold Trump accountable based upon the evidence. Most them paid no attention to the trial. The only thing that would have made them vote to impeach was if their polls indicated that more Republican voters would leave the party if they didn't vote to impeach than would leave if they did vote to Impeach. Given that most of the Republican base has little regard for democracy unless they are the winning majority, the GOP would have been harmed by voting to impeach, so they didn't. It's that simple and nothing in trial was going to change that. In fact, the GOP likely knew that many on the left would be dumb enough to focus their attack on the Dems for failing to get a conviction, so they knew they would see a net gain from ignoring the evidence and law and acquitting.

 

[TomC]

It's the social chemistry amongst their constituents sir. The main examples stereotypes being the Southern Confederacy, evangelicals & Qanon Shamans alone are enough to boost popcorn shares to new heights. Going to be entertaining seeing republicans wax lyrical for all three groups now that Trump pulled a shit-covered cat out of the bag.

74 million people voted for Trump. Trump doesn't have 74 million supporters. A lot of those people voted for the asshole they probably didn't like because voting for Biden was impossible. The best a tiny subset could do was vote Libertarian, which made a difference this year.

The GOP didn't hold Trump in check. The Republican voters didn't hold the GOP in check. The demographics might not matter, even with a purple Texas, as the GOP controls those legislatures and will put into effect the laws that helped Stacey Abrams from winning an election in Georgia.

It's water retracting prior to a tidal wave. Right now Southern confederates aren't happy with Mitch the bitch ass McConnell because Trump is their emperor & while he voted to acquit he still had to tell the truth about Trump's guilt to reassure Evangelicals that Republicans have "Christian values". Have you seen Mike Pence lately? Evangelicals still love him, while Qanon's & confederates want to hang him. The republicans are going to have a difficult time keeping constituents aligned now that all the training performed over the past 4 decades was damaged. And the only unifying element is Trump (the very person that split them). It may seem like business as usual but It's training day again. Been that ways since Trump took office (seen any solid plans/bills/etc produced solely by the republican party since then? Nope, because Trump is a minefield and everyone of them are too pussy to run over him. That's my insane take

I wouldn't have phrased it that way,

But totally right on.

The problem the GOP has right now(and for the foreseeable future) is that there are Republicans such as Romney and Paul Ryan. Then there are TeaPartiers, such as Trump and Margorie Greene. Those two wings of the GOP are more different from each other than the Republicans are from the neoliberal Democrats like the Clintons and Obama and Pelosi.


But neither wing of the GOP can win any important elections without the other. Their political platforms and policies just don't have enough support from the broad American electorate.

Tom

 

[Gospel]

I see a number of people on the left attacking the Dems for the result, claiming that their failure to call witnesses was what doomed the outcome to failure. Exactly what would any witnesses have testified to that wasn't already beyond reasonable doubt from the extant evidence, such as Trump's own words, what was caught on video, etc.? And would that testimony provide enough added benefit to outweigh giving the defense a cross-examination opportunity to find a red-herring excuse that gave the Republicans cover?

Also, there was zero chance that 17 Republicans were going to have the decency and respect for rule of law and democracy to hold Trump accountable based upon the evidence. Most them paid no attention to the trial. The only thing that would have made them vote to impeach was if their polls indicated that more Republican voters would leave the party if they didn't vote to impeach than would leave if they did vote to Impeach. Given that most of the Republican base has little regard for democracy unless they are the winning majority, the GOP would have been harmed by voting to impeach, so they didn't. It's that simple and nothing in trial was going to change that. In fact, the GOP likely knew that many on the left would be dumb enough to focus their attack on the Dems for failing to get a conviction, so they knew they would see a net gain from ignoring the evidence and law and acquitting.

Blah, all the Dems need to do to fix this is make it rain Harriet Tubman's with that stimulus money ASAP saying they knew that Impeachment 2.0 is the same game as it was in 1.0 with updates. We decided to move on to get you the help you deserve with your homes while the republicans try to destroy its foundation.

But they are too dumb to do that ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[lpetrich]

Joy-Ann Pro-Democracy & Masks Reid on Twitter: "This:" / Twitter
noting
Jason Crow on Twitter: "McConnell’s post-impeachment speech is exactly why people hate politics.

Politicians saying one thing and doing the opposite.

He and the others who shirked their duty should get no credit." / Twitter

I like this:
Joy-Ann Pro-Democracy & Masks Reid on Twitter: "Happy Presidents Day to all of our living presidents who DIDN’T commit insurrection against the United States or try to get their vice presidents lynched!" / Twitter

 

[Gospel]

So much salt it's a wonder there's any left for the ocean.

 

[ZiprHead]

Lawsuit accuses Donald Trump, Giuliani and others of conspiring to incite Capitol riot

The suit alleges that Trump and others violated the 1871 Ku Klux Klan Act.

Former President Trump, his attorney Rudy Giuliani, the Proud Boys and Oath Keepers conspired to violate the 1871 Ku Klux Klan Act, which prohibits any actions designed to prevent Congress from carrying out its duties, when they incited the Jan. 6 riot at the Capitol, a new lawsuit from the chairman of the House Homeland Security Committee alleged.

The insurrection was the result of a carefully orchestrated plan by Trump, Giuliani and extremist groups like the Oath Keepers and Proud Boys, all of whom shared a common goal of employing intimidation, harassment and threats to stop the certification of the Electoral College, said Rep. Bennie Thompson, a Democrat from Mississippi.

“The Defendants each intended to prevent, and ultimately delayed, members of Congress from discharging their duty commanded by the United States Constitution to approve the results of the Electoral College in order to elect the next President and Vice President of the United States,” the lawsuit said. “Pursuing a purpose shared by Defendants Trump and Giuliani as well as Defendant Proud Boys, Defendant Oath Keepers played a leadership role of the riotous crowd and provided military-style assistance sufficient to overcome any Capitol Police resistance.”

 

[Worldtraveller]

This NAACP suit might have some teeth.

I hope the ACLU gets behind it, but NAACP already has some pretty crack lawyers.

 

[Trausti]

This NAACP suit might have some teeth.

I hope the ACLU gets behind it, but NAACP already has some pretty crack lawyers.

It has no teeth. To prove conspiracy you need to show intent and agreement. The Complaint has none of that. Just a publicity stunt.

 

[ZiprHead]

This NAACP suit might have some teeth.

I hope the ACLU gets behind it, but NAACP already has some pretty crack lawyers.

It has no teeth. To prove conspiracy you need to show intent and agreement. The Complaint has none of that. Just a publicity stunt.

Complaints generally don't include details of the evidence.

Roger Stone was at the rallies on both the fifth and the sixth. He uses the Oathkeepers as his body guards. Those same Oathkeepers that were with Stone stormed the capital.

First They Guarded Roger Stone. Then They Joined the Capitol Attack.

At least six people who had provided security for Roger Stone entered the Capitol during the Jan. 6 attack, according to a New York Times investigation.

Videos show the group guarding Mr. Stone, a longtime friend of former President Donald J. Trump, on the day of the attack or the day before. All six of them are associated with the Oath Keepers, a far-right anti-government militia that is known to provide security for right-wing personalities and protesters at public events.

Mr. Stone, a convicted felon who was pardoned by Mr. Trump, has a long history as a self-proclaimed “dirty trickster” political operative who has lived by the edicts of attack, admit nothing, deny everything, and counterattack. He posted a message online denying involvement in “the lawless acts at the Capitol.”

We combed through hundreds of videos and photos, and drew on research from an online monitoring group called the Capitol Terrorists Exposers to track the security team that surrounded Mr. Stone on Jan. 5 and 6.

Here’s how they went from guarding him to standing inside the Capitol building on Jan. 6.

Details in the link.

 

[Trausti]

Complaints generally don't include details of the evidence.

A complaint still needs to allege facts to support whatever is being alleged. Conspiracy is a legal term with legal elements. This Complaint doesn't even try. https://naacp.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/Thompson-v.-Trump-Complaint-FILED.pdf

Alt F "intent" or "knowingly." Nada. Zip. This Complaint tells a story of Trump and his supporters contesting an election. That's it. That's not conspiracy.

 

[ZiprHead]

Complaints generally don't include details of the evidence.

A complaint still needs to allege facts to support whatever is being alleged. Conspiracy is a legal term with legal elements. This Complaint doesn't even try. https://naacp.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/Thompson-v.-Trump-Complaint-FILED.pdf

Alt F "intent" or "knowingly." Nada. Zip. This Complaint tells a story of Trump and his supporters contesting an election. That's it. That's not conspiracy.

 

[Trausti]

Complaints generally don't include details of the evidence.

A complaint still needs to allege facts to support whatever is being alleged. Conspiracy is a legal term with legal elements. This Complaint doesn't even try. https://naacp.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/Thompson-v.-Trump-Complaint-FILED.pdf

Alt F "intent" or "knowingly." Nada. Zip. This Complaint tells a story of Trump and his supporters contesting an election. That's it. That's not conspiracy.

View attachment 31932

Allegedly inciting a crowd is not conspiracy. The Complaint says there was a "unified plan" but gives no facts to support that. There is no factual allegation whatsoever in the Complaint that Trump or his Campaign knowingly or intentionally agreed with others to break into the Capital building and stop the vote counting. You kinda need that if you charge - as the congress member does - a conspiracy by Trump and others to stop Congress from counting the electoral votes.

 

[ZiprHead]

View attachment 31932

Allegedly inciting a crowd is not conspiracy. The Complaint says there was a "unified plan" but gives no facts to support that. There is no factual allegation whatsoever in the Complaint that Trump or his Campaign knowingly or intentionally agreed with others to break into the Capital building. You kinda need that if you charge - as the congress member does - a conspiracy by Trump and others to stop Congress from counting the electoral votes.

There's far more details further below in the complaint. Obviously Trump and Giulliani conspired, they were on the same stage spreading the same message. Both the PB and the OK discussed and shared their plan on internet message boards, primarily Parler. That's also conspiracy.

 

[Trausti]

View attachment 31932

Allegedly inciting a crowd is not conspiracy. The Complaint says there was a "unified plan" but gives no facts to support that. There is no factual allegation whatsoever in the Complaint that Trump or his Campaign knowingly or intentionally agreed with others to break into the Capital building. You kinda need that if you charge - as the congress member does - a conspiracy by Trump and others to stop Congress from counting the electoral votes.

There's far more details further below in the complaint. Obviously Trump and Giulliani conspired, they were on the same stage spreading the same message. Both the PB and the OK discussed and shared their plan on internet message boards, primarily Parler. That's also conspiracy.

Huh? Trump and Giulliani conspired to what? The claim against Trump and Giulliani fizzles if you cannot show intent and agreement with the other parties to break into Congress and stop the counting of the electoral votes.