Covid-19 miscellany

[Swammerdami]

...
So Biden orders employees of big businesses to be vaccinated against Covid-19 or face weekly testing.

Completely fair assuming, in this executive order is also included a plan for how to finance it, and organise it in a way that doesn't unnecessarily complicate the lives of unvaccinated. Is there? If there isn't he's a fascist totalitarian bully. If it is, he's a good competent president. It would have been nice if this information was in the article.

Finance it? Aren't vaccines and tests already free? And shouldn't private companies be given their own leeway about how to organize it? I'm not given a subsidy to buy a baby-seat or to wait for signal lights to turn green; WTH do we need "financing" to examine a vaccination certificate?

But I'm not responding to your post to quibble about such trivia. To the contrary, what caught my eye was that, in your view, the difference between a brief order and one which spells out — (what exactly? the need for political commissars assigned to each private company to "organise" a vaccination order?) — is the difference between "a fascist totalitarian bully" and a "good competent" president! A dizzyingly exaggerated distinction, based on little, if anything, of substance!

Not to mention any names ( ), but some poster(s) at TFT habitually plunge from one extremist view to a completely different extremist view with shameless abandon! At some point the posts are useful only for amusement. If faced with a multiple-choice question ("Does this poster sound like (a) a left-winger, (b) a right-winger, (c) a libertarian, or (d) an authoritarian?") I would go with "(e) all of the above."

One addendum I might provide in such an executive order is mandatory jail terms for use of fake vaccine certificates. If failure to regulate commissars would make Biden "a fascist totalitarian bully" I guess my addendum would make me "a card-carrying Islamo-communist Pol Pot-worshiping slave-monger in the worst Trumpo-Clintonist tradition."

 

[TomC]

Yes. I'm also certain that it will work in his favor if he needs it at tax time (not that he will)

That's gravy, if it ever even comes to tax issues.

What Bezos did is just good business. Get people vaccinated without needing time off for the jabs, much less sick time if they get C19 and spread it to coworkers before they are symptomatic.

Really, it's Bezos taking care of Bezos. Heck, the good publicity was probably almost worth it. He kinda needed some.
Tom

 

[Trausti]

Ya know, if people lost weight, exercised, cut the carbs, and went out in the Sun that’d really be helpful. Nah, better mask forever, stay home, and get fat.

fallacy of false alternatives--these things are not mutually exclusive.
Also, you left out voluntarily inhaling smoke as a risk factor over which a person has some control.

Covid-19 death rates 10 times higher in countries where most adults are overweight, report finds

We need OSHA to mandate no donuts in the company kitchen; weekly weigh-ins; $14k fines for employees with high BMI.

 

[Shadowy Man]

Ya know, if people lost weight, exercised, cut the carbs, and went out in the Sun that’d really be helpful. Nah, better mask forever, stay home, and get fat.

fallacy of false alternatives--these things are not mutually exclusive.
Also, you left out voluntarily inhaling smoke as a risk factor over which a person has some control.

Covid-19 death rates 10 times higher in countries where most adults are overweight, report finds

We need OSHA to mandate no donuts in the company kitchen; weekly weigh-ins.

Can someone catch obesity from their coworker eating donuts? There’s a difference between personal health and public health threats. To pretend there isn’t is being disingenuous in this conversation.

 

[Trausti]

Covid-19 death rates 10 times higher in countries where most adults are overweight, report finds

We need OSHA to mandate no donuts in the company kitchen; weekly weigh-ins.

Can someone catch obesity from their coworker eating donuts? There’s a difference between personal health and public health threats. To pretend there isn’t is being disingenuous in this conversation.

Um, if we paradoxically have to protect the vaccinated from the unvaccinated - as amnesia Joe scolded us - then protection from the unhealthy is a must, as their poor body habitus permits the virus to spread.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Ya know, if people lost weight, exercised, cut the carbs, and went out in the Sun that’d really be helpful. Nah, better mask forever, stay home, and get fat.

fallacy of false alternatives--these things are not mutually exclusive.
Also, you left out voluntarily inhaling smoke as a risk factor over which a person has some control.

Covid-19 death rates 10 times higher in countries where most adults are overweight, report finds

We need OSHA to mandate no donuts in the company kitchen; weekly weigh-ins; $14k fines for employees with high BMI.

Great link. Enjoyed the read.

 

[Shadowy Man]

Covid-19 death rates 10 times higher in countries where most adults are overweight, report finds

We need OSHA to mandate no donuts in the company kitchen; weekly weigh-ins.

Can someone catch obesity from their coworker eating donuts? There’s a difference between personal health and public health threats. To pretend there isn’t is being disingenuous in this conversation.

Um, if we paradoxically have to protect the vaccinated from the unvaccinated - as amnesia Joe scolded us - then protection from the unhealthy is a must, as their poor body habitus permits the virus to spread.

Do you have evidence that unfit people actually spread the virus more, or just that unfit people with comorbidities themselves have worse reactions (including death) to the virus?

Besides, correlation isn’t causation. It could just be that the countries that have higher obesity rates also have higher rates of people who are refusing vaccines.

It *is* interesting that the same people who complain about the unknown (likely nonexistent) long term effects of the vaccine are many of the same people who should definitely concern themselves with the known long term health effects of obesity and high cholesterol.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Um, if we paradoxically have to protect the vaccinated from the unvaccinated - as amnesia Joe scolded us - then protection from the unhealthy is a must, as their poor body habitus permits the virus to spread.

Do you have evidence that unfit people actually spread the virus more, or just that unfit people with comorbidities themselves have worse reactions (including death) to the virus?

Besides, correlation isn’t causation. It could just be that the countries that have higher obesity rates also have higher rates of people who are refusing vaccines.

It *is* interesting that the same people who complain about the unknown (likely nonexistent) long term effects of the vaccine are many of the same people who should definitely concern themselves with the known long term health effects of obesity and high cholesterol.

Being overweight can be seen as a measure of complacency. Maybe complacency accounts for both obesity and vaccine refuseniks. So indirectly, perhaps obesity correlates with virus spread, if indeed there are more obese persons around. But I don't think an individual having a high BMI makes them more infectious. That sounds kinda silly actually.

 

[untermensche]

Ya know, if people lost weight, exercised, cut the carbs, and went out in the Sun that’d really be helpful. Nah, better mask forever, stay home, and get fat.

fallacy of false alternatives--these things are not mutually exclusive.
Also, you left out voluntarily inhaling smoke as a risk factor over which a person has some control.

Covid-19 death rates 10 times higher in countries where most adults are overweight, report finds

We need OSHA to mandate no donuts in the company kitchen; weekly weigh-ins; $14k fines for employees with high BMI.

OSHA deals with workplace safety not poor eating habits.

 

[Swammerdami]

Um, if we paradoxically have to protect the vaccinated from the unvaccinated - as amnesia Joe scolded us - then protection from the unhealthy is a must, as their poor body habitus permits the virus to spread.

I wonder if the right-wing chorus — presumably pro-business if their "ideology" is sensical at all — is aware that businesses are delighted with Biden's vaccination-or-test mandate. Workplaces with healthy workers are better for corporate profits (and better for national prosperity) than workplaces where employees are sick or dead.

 

[crazyfingers]

Um, if we paradoxically have to protect the vaccinated from the unvaccinated - as amnesia Joe scolded us - then protection from the unhealthy is a must, as their poor body habitus permits the virus to spread.

I wonder if the right-wing chorus — presumably pro-business if their "ideology" is sensical at all — is aware that businesses are delighted with Biden's vaccination-or-test mandate. Workplaces with healthy workers are better for corporate profits (and better for national prosperity) than workplaces where employees are sick or dead.

Here's who loves Biden's vaccine mandate: The companies that have to enforce it

https://www.cnn.com/2021/09/10/business/biden-vaccine-mandate/index.html

Yup. For a lot of reasons but with the hiring issues, it levels the playing field.

If I was head of a business I'd be applauding this too,

I could finally do the right thing and have OSHA regulations to back me up.

 

[ZiprHead]

You can be tested weekly if you don’t want to be vaccinated.

I don’t think it’s a bad idea if a company were to implement that, but the federal government has no basis to require it.

Wrong.

 Jacobson v. Massachusetts

Jacobson v. Massachusetts, 197 U.S. 11 (1905), was a United States Supreme Court case in which the Court upheld the authority of states to enforce compulsory vaccination laws. The Court's decision articulated the view that individual liberty is not absolute and is subject to the police power of the state.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

If there isn't he's a fascist totalitarian bully.

Fascism isn't ordering people to do safe things during a pandemic. That's not what fascism is.

Just because you personally agree with what a fascist is doing doesn't mean it isn't fascism. It just means you agree with what a fascist is doing.

Right now, the Biden administration was humiliated by the Taliban. Since they can't do anything about that, they're taking it out on a different target they can more easily do something about. Classic transference.

 

[ZiprHead]

Man drives into workers at COVID vaccination clinic during brazen attack in California

Colorado Officials Shut Down Vaccine Clinics After Staff Face Harassment

So now the people that abhor cancel culture are trying to cancel people's ability to get the vaccine.

 

[ZiprHead]

If there isn't he's a fascist totalitarian bully.

Fascism isn't ordering people to do safe things during a pandemic. That's not what fascism is.

Just because you personally agree with what a fascist is doing doesn't mean it isn't fascism. It just means you agree with what a fascist is doing.

Right now, the Biden administration was humiliated by the Taliban. Since they can't do anything about that, they're taking it out on a different target they can more easily do something about. Classic transference.

We've been humiliated by the Taliban for twenty years.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

Just because you personally agree with what a fascist is doing doesn't mean it isn't fascism. It just means you agree with what a fascist is doing.

Right now, the Biden administration was humiliated by the Taliban. Since they can't do anything about that, they're taking it out on a different target they can more easily do something about. Classic transference.

We've been humiliated by the Taliban for twenty years.

"WE" have not. The United States military, yes. Those who supported this war, yes. Those who abandoned their anti-war position the day Obama was inaugurated, yet. Those who said the whole time that the US should not be doing this, no.

But we're edging into derail territory now.

 

[untermensche]

If there isn't he's a fascist totalitarian bully.

Fascism isn't ordering people to do safe things during a pandemic. That's not what fascism is.

Just because you personally agree with what a fascist is doing doesn't mean it isn't fascism. It just means you agree with what a fascist is doing.

Right now, the Biden administration was humiliated by the Taliban. Since they can't do anything about that, they're taking it out on a different target they can more easily do something about. Classic transference.

This insanity that taking strong measures to fight a pandemic we have been living with for two years that has killed hundreds of thousands is fascism is an idea so far in outer space I never thought I would hear it from adults.

But this comes from the same people who claim traffic lights are fascism.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

Just because you personally agree with what a fascist is doing doesn't mean it isn't fascism. It just means you agree with what a fascist is doing.

Right now, the Biden administration was humiliated by the Taliban. Since they can't do anything about that, they're taking it out on a different target they can more easily do something about. Classic transference.

This insanity that taking strong measures to fight a pandemic we have been living with for two years that has killed hundreds of thousands is fascism is an idea so far in outer space I never thought I would hear it from adults.

But this comes from the same people who claim traffic lights are fascism.

Aren't you the one who claims to be some sort of anarchist?

 

[untermensche]

Just because you personally agree with what a fascist is doing doesn't mean it isn't fascism. It just means you agree with what a fascist is doing.

Right now, the Biden administration was humiliated by the Taliban. Since they can't do anything about that, they're taking it out on a different target they can more easily do something about. Classic transference.

This insanity that taking strong measures to fight a pandemic we have been living with for two years that has killed hundreds of thousands is fascism is an idea so far in outer space I never thought I would hear it from adults.

But this comes from the same people who claim traffic lights are fascism.

Aren't you the one who claims to be some sort of anarchist?

Anarchism is not anarchy.

It is not the insane belief that dealing with public health emergencies is fascism.

Nobody can be forced to get the vaccine but nobody is immune from the consequences of choosing not to get it.

Choices have consequences.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

Aren't you the one who claims to be some sort of anarchist?

Anarchism is not anarchy.

It is not the insane belief that dealing with public health emergencies is fascism.

Nobody can be forced to get the vaccine but nobody is immune from the consequences of choosing not to get it.

I forgot, government isn't government when you agree with it.