What, exactly, is CRT?

[DrZoidberg]

In the South, they teach HCRT:

View attachment 35689

Isn't preserving confederate monuments teaching people about the history of slavery?

 

[Jayjay]

In the South, they teach HCRT:

View attachment 35689

Isn't preserving confederate monuments teaching people about the history of slavery?

My understanding is that most of those monuments were originally built after the civil war.

 

[DrZoidberg]

In the South, they teach HCRT:

View attachment 35689

Isn't preserving confederate monuments teaching people about the history of slavery?

My understanding is that most of those monuments were originally built after the civil war.

Yes. For racist reasons. My understanding is that they were mostly built in the 1930'ies and crowdsourced through the KKK.

In most of Europe there was the Holocaust remembrance day yesterday. It's always good to remind ourselves that the Nazis and Germans aren't uniquely evil. This kind of evil can emerge anywhere. Normal people can do monstrous things given the right (or wrong) circumstances. These kinds of monuments remind us of that.

If we hide the dirt of our ancestors we risk repeating their mistakes.

 

[WAB]

My understanding is that most of those monuments were originally built after the civil war.

Yes. For racist reasons. My understanding is that they were mostly built in the 1930'ies and crowdsourced through the KKK.

In most of Europe there was the Holocaust remembrance day yesterday. It's always good to remind ourselves that the Nazis and Germans aren't uniquely evil. This kind of evil can emerge anywhere. Normal people can do monstrous things given the right (or wrong) circumstances. These kinds of monuments remind us of that.

If we hide the dirt of our ancestors we risk repeating their mistakes.

Good point, DrZ.

 

[DrZoidberg]

We don't need to live in a world where every piece of art is something that agrees with our own personal ideology. I'd argue that a world like that is deeply dysfunctional and broken.

Me personally, monarchy, royalty and aristocracy is deeply offensive. I work right next to the Danish royal palace. I ride my little bike through the palace grounds on the way to work each morning. I think it's pretty. I'm fully capable or holding two thoughts in my brain at the same time.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

In the South, they teach HCRT:

View attachment 35689

Isn't preserving confederate monuments teaching people about the history of slavery?

My understanding is that most of those monuments were originally built after the civil war.

Yes and we've been over this many times--that most of the monuments are teaching a false narrative--not history.

 

[KeepTalking]

Reaping the benefits of CRT.

‘Nation’s Report Card’ finds falling test scores, even pre-covid

The National Assessment of Educational Progress for decades has been measuring student performance in a variety of academic subjects to chart progress — or lack thereof, and dubbing the data the “Nation’s Report Card.” The results released Thursday, based on a nationally representative sample of children, compared scores of 9- and 13-year-olds to those in the early 1970s and in 2012.

The new report finds scores have fallen for Black and Hispanic students since 2012 and remain flat for White children, widening the racial achievement gap. This year also revealed a gender gap, as nine-year-old boys’ math scores stayed steady while girls’ scores fell compared to 2012.

So apparently telling non-White kids to blame White people for all their problems doesn't make the non-White kids do their homework.

CRT isn't being taught to kids that age now, much less in 2012. The ignorance on display in the above is astounding.

 

[KeepTalking]

My understanding is that most of those monuments were originally built after the civil war.

Yes. For racist reasons. My understanding is that they were mostly built in the 1930'ies and crowdsourced through the KKK.

In most of Europe there was the Holocaust remembrance day yesterday. It's always good to remind ourselves that the Nazis and Germans aren't uniquely evil. This kind of evil can emerge anywhere. Normal people can do monstrous things given the right (or wrong) circumstances. These kinds of monuments remind us of that.

If we hide the dirt of our ancestors we risk repeating their mistakes.

Are you saying that in Europe there are statues of Hitler, Goring, Himmler, Eichmann, and etc. are allowed to stand and be revered on public grounds in Europe? Because that is what you want to happen in the USA. The people those racists decided to revere with statues on display on public grounds are exactly analogous to Nazi leaders being revered in the same manner in Europe. It says to everyone who is not racist that "You may have won the war a century and a half ago, but we are winning the battles that matter now."

 

[DrZoidberg]

My understanding is that most of those monuments were originally built after the civil war.

Yes. For racist reasons. My understanding is that they were mostly built in the 1930'ies and crowdsourced through the KKK.

In most of Europe there was the Holocaust remembrance day yesterday. It's always good to remind ourselves that the Nazis and Germans aren't uniquely evil. This kind of evil can emerge anywhere. Normal people can do monstrous things given the right (or wrong) circumstances. These kinds of monuments remind us of that.

If we hide the dirt of our ancestors we risk repeating their mistakes.

Are you saying that in Europe there are statues of Hitler, Goring, Himmler, Eichmann, and etc. are allowed to stand and be revered on public grounds in Europe? Because that is what you want to happen in the USA. The people those racists decided to revere with statues on display on public grounds are exactly analogous to Nazi leaders being revered in the same manner in Europe. It says to everyone who is not racist that "You may have won the war a century and a half ago, but we are winning the battles that matter now."

Yes, pretty much. Not exactly those, but European cities are full of conquerors and rulers guilty of genocide and all manner of godawful crimes. Every single royal family in Europe, when in power, were little better than maffia organizations. We still have those monsters on our money!

Turkey is full of statues of Kemal Atatürk, and he's on their money. Both the Nazi movement and the Fascist movements were carbon copies of Atatürks Young Turk movement. Every Catholic church is as much a monument over following the example of Jesus as it is the systematic covering up of pedo boy rape.

If we remove every trace of atrocities from European cities we'd have to raise the entire continent to the ground.

Hitler is a scapegoat. There's a tacit agreement that if we remove the symbols of Nazism from Europe, then everything is fine. No, it's not. Nazism started in Münich for a good reason. That culture is still in the water over there.

Because of Muslim immigration to Sweden, it is now dangerous to be Jewish in a way not seen since WW2.

Trying to hide anything that makes us feel bad creates an intellectually impoverished and emotionally backward society. It's good being reminded of the horrors that lie within us all.

A statue over a horrible person doesn't mean that we're condoning the person or encouraging the acts. They're windows into the past. They're triggers that might make us stop and think. We all have instant access to Wikipedia.

The people who want to tear down the statues of old rulers our of favour are just repeating the book burning culture of the Nazis. We're all capable of intolerance and xenophobia.

 

[KeepTalking]

Are you saying that in Europe there are statues of Hitler, Goring, Himmler, Eichmann, and etc. are allowed to stand and be revered on public grounds in Europe? Because that is what you want to happen in the USA. The people those racists decided to revere with statues on display on public grounds are exactly analogous to Nazi leaders being revered in the same manner in Europe. It says to everyone who is not racist that "You may have won the war a century and a half ago, but we are winning the battles that matter now."

Yes, pretty much. Not exactly those

So, your answer should be no, then. Figure out why there are no statues venerating prominent Nazis in Europe, and you will also know why there should be no statues venerating Confederate leaders in the US.

 

[Elixir]

CRT isn't being taught to kids that age now, much less in 2012. The ignorance on display in the above is astounding.

If you got (that much of) it, flaunt it. Seems to be a right wing credo regarding ignorance.

 

[Politesse]

In most of Europe there was the Holocaust remembrance day yesterday. It's always good to remind ourselves that the Nazis and Germans aren't uniquely evil. This kind of evil can emerge anywhere. Normal people can do monstrous things given the right (or wrong) circumstances. These kinds of monuments remind us of that.

So what you're saying is that there are statues built in honor of Hitler, Goebbels, Mengele, and so forth all around Europe, and rather than being upset, Europeans go to those statues and learn about history from them? Funny, they must be hiding the Hitler shrines well, as I've been to Europe a few times and never noticed any of them. Or are you suggesting that they should construct some new ones, to be more like America and honor "both sides" at Holocaust memorials? If you present your "build more statues of Nazis around Norway" plan to your city council, do please re-post videos of the proceedings for us to see, I'm sure the reaction will be instructive.

 

[Trausti]

Reaping the benefits of CRT.

‘Nation’s Report Card’ finds falling test scores, even pre-covid

So apparently telling non-White kids to blame White people for all their problems doesn't make the non-White kids do their homework.

CRT isn't being taught to kids that age now, much less in 2012. The ignorance on display in the above is astounding.

This was for 2019-2020. 2012 was simply the comparison year.

 

[laughing dog]

Reaping the benefits of CRT.

‘Nation’s Report Card’ finds falling test scores, even pre-covid

So apparently telling non-White kids to blame White people for all their problems doesn't make the non-White kids do their homework.

CRT isn't being taught to kids that age now, much less in 2012. The ignorance on display in the above is astounding.

This was for 2019-2020. 2012 was simply the comparison year.

As long as we are going to confuse correlation with causation, I say it is the result of the Trump Presidency. After all, we know that occurred while there is no little evidence that CRT was taught, let alone widely spread, in the schools.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Zoidberg mentioned a bunch of other statues, too, some of which do exist. But, no, not Hitler and his posse. Here I think is another factor to consider:

History is written by the victors.​

Hitler won and then he lost. His teams wrote their own history and propagandized until the chickens came home to roost. BUT don't think of the sentence as merely what happens upon victories of conquest or war, but also the other way around--accepted history defines winners and losers. A successful rewrite or hiding history can transform culture.

This part, I think, is where we are with CRT, anti-CRT, neo-confederate movement et cetera. We know conservatives project. It's been neo-confederates rewriting the history to make their ancestors into noble losers, looking for sympathy, denial, and even continuation of their own power structures. A study of racism, especially of CURRENT EVENTS, but not strictly current events, is a direct challenge to them, and of history, it's an attack on their foundations. If those powerful white persons were present as students in the social studies classrooms, they'd answer facts with "yeah but" and denials and other political tricks to maintain the power structure. The legislation makes it far easier as the teachers are forced to do the "yeah but" and both sides themselves. The vague "makes white children feel bad" is also a catch-all for parents to exert pressure.

This is really covered pretty well in the other thread on anti-anti-racist legislation with documentation on the Moms For Liberty movement and how they are trying to ban books in the schools. Of course we will continue to see gaslighting from the right-wing, regardless of documented evidence.

 

[Trausti]

This was for 2019-2020. 2012 was simply the comparison year.

As long as we are going to confuse correlation with causation, I say it is the result of the Trump Presidency. After all, we know that occurred while there is no little evidence that CRT was taught, let alone widely spread, in the schools.

Well, okay. If CRT is not being taught there’s no reason to oppose laws keeping it out of schools, right? Just status quo.

 

[Politesse]

This was for 2019-2020. 2012 was simply the comparison year.

As long as we are going to confuse correlation with causation, I say it is the result of the Trump Presidency. After all, we know that occurred while there is no little evidence that CRT was taught, let alone widely spread, in the schools.

Well, okay. If CRT is not being taught there’s no reason to oppose laws keeping it out of schools, right? Just status quo.

Except that censorship is fundamentally inimical to democracy.

 

[laughing dog]

This was for 2019-2020. 2012 was simply the comparison year.

As long as we are going to confuse correlation with causation, I say it is the result of the Trump Presidency. After all, we know that occurred while there is no little evidence that CRT was taught, let alone widely spread, in the schools.

Well, okay. If CRT is not being taught there’s no reason to oppose laws keeping it out of schools, right? Just status quo.

Since one of the reasons for these laws is to stifle education, there is a reason to oppose them. Not to mention that pointless laws are a waste of time.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

In the South, they teach HCRT:

View attachment 35689

Maybe I haven't been keeping up, but is there really a movement to not teach slavery at all as part of a History class in the South? My understanding is the objections are mostly based on HOW it is being taught, which is something worthy of discussion.

Ah yes... the "how it's being taught." argument. And how is it being taught?

 

[KeepTalking]

Reaping the benefits of CRT.

‘Nation’s Report Card’ finds falling test scores, even pre-covid

So apparently telling non-White kids to blame White people for all their problems doesn't make the non-White kids do their homework.

CRT isn't being taught to kids that age now, much less in 2012. The ignorance on display in the above is astounding.

This was for 2019-2020. 2012 was simply the comparison year.

So not "pre-covid" as you tried to preface it.

If you want an explanation, the one you tried to hide with your incorrect prefacing is more likely.