Is a vaccine mandate a racist policy?

[Shadowy Man]

You would see that patient, as they are the highest priority.

EDIT: Also, what's the point of this point scoring? If Toni believes that ERs don't routinely have more than one patient, I don't know what to tell her. She has lived in a cossetted and privileged world if she thinks that.

how many patients does an ER normally have??

In my jurisdiction, more than half of ER patients are not seen within four hours. Admittedly, it's the worst jurisdiction in Australia for ER wait times.

Canberra ED wait times are the worst in the country, but the Health Minister wants to fix it by October

It took five hours for Kathryn Harradine's six-month-old son Andy to be treated for a lung infection at Canberra Hospital's emergency department. Health Minister Rachel Stephen-Smith expects such a wait will be shorter in nine months' time.

www.abc.net.au

if one anecdote supports your narrative....

Data is not an anecdote.

yeah so aggregate the data available about getting vaccines versus no getting vaccines and let US know how you are doing, please. and "US" is every interested party before we all die.

Today, over 90% of the people in my jurisdiction have been double vaxxed, and we didn't have any vaccine mandates to get there.

It's a shame the left has been so vindictive and hateful and condescending in America that they've hardened the hearts of so many Americans against vaccination. But I'm sure indefinite house arrest will soften their hearts and minds. Good luck.

If only Joe Biden hadn’t stolen the election from kind and generous Donald Trump, we would be over this pandemic by now!

 

[none]

If only Joe Biden hadn’t stolen the election from kind and generous Donald Trump, we would be over this pandemic by now!

nah, this is an OZ issue obviously, colonial america politics is well taxing....

 

[laughing dog]

But your analogy doesn't make sense. I have never been against quarantining people who have an infectious disease. I am against quarantining people who don't have the disease.

The problem is people don't know they have Covid. It's contagious before it shows symptoms. That's why it exploded across the world while SARS was stopped.

Being vaxxed does not change your level of awareness about having COVID.

With a communicable virus, they are not only taking unnecessary risk for themselves, but for everyone around them. Just like a person who takes an unnecessary risk by driving at high speed, exceeding the speed limit, on a crowded highway. You are advocating that we let them be a danger to everyone because they might become distressed by being forced to slow down.

People without COVID are not a danger to anybody in transmitting COVID.

You don't seem to understand the key issue here--people can't know they don't have Covid, thus this comparison is irrelevant.

I understand the issue. I reject forcing other people to get a medical procedure for your benefit.

Of course there could be long term effects from having had COVID. But the people who choose not to be vaccinated have decided that they are willing to take that risk for themselves.

They can choose to take the risk for themselves--but they don't get to choose to take it for others.

How about we make it a bit more fair--a lottery. Every person who refuses the vaccine is in the lottery. Every time someone who is vaccinated dies a name is drawn and that person is executed.

Hell, why not combine the lottery with house arrest? But the execution should be televised, and particularly inhumane and gruesome, to warn all the other people who refuse to be coerced into a medical procedure on their body.

Yes, you have somehow come to the conclusion that psychological harm, no matter the extent, is worse than death. That is not a view I have seen espoused from many people. In fact, in my experience, that makes you quite unique.

No, I do not mean that all psychological harm is worse than death.

You have described the lives of people forced to be vaccinated as wretched.

Toni's indefinite house arrest plan would make the lives of the unvaccinated wretched.

We have been over this - it is not indefinite. When someone has to resort to falsehoods to make an argument, there is no argument.

 

[Metaphor]

But your analogy doesn't make sense. I have never been against quarantining people who have an infectious disease. I am against quarantining people who don't have the disease.

The problem is people don't know they have Covid. It's contagious before it shows symptoms. That's why it exploded across the world while SARS was stopped.

Being vaxxed does not change your level of awareness about having COVID.

With a communicable virus, they are not only taking unnecessary risk for themselves, but for everyone around them. Just like a person who takes an unnecessary risk by driving at high speed, exceeding the speed limit, on a crowded highway. You are advocating that we let them be a danger to everyone because they might become distressed by being forced to slow down.

People without COVID are not a danger to anybody in transmitting COVID.

You don't seem to understand the key issue here--people can't know they don't have Covid, thus this comparison is irrelevant.

I understand the issue. I reject forcing other people to get a medical procedure for your benefit.

Of course there could be long term effects from having had COVID. But the people who choose not to be vaccinated have decided that they are willing to take that risk for themselves.

They can choose to take the risk for themselves--but they don't get to choose to take it for others.

How about we make it a bit more fair--a lottery. Every person who refuses the vaccine is in the lottery. Every time someone who is vaccinated dies a name is drawn and that person is executed.

Hell, why not combine the lottery with house arrest? But the execution should be televised, and particularly inhumane and gruesome, to warn all the other people who refuse to be coerced into a medical procedure on their body.

Yes, you have somehow come to the conclusion that psychological harm, no matter the extent, is worse than death. That is not a view I have seen espoused from many people. In fact, in my experience, that makes you quite unique.

No, I do not mean that all psychological harm is worse than death.

You have described the lives of people forced to be vaccinated as wretched.

Toni's indefinite house arrest plan would make the lives of the unvaccinated wretched.

We have been over this - it is not indefinite. When someone has to resort to falsehoods to make an argument, there is no argument.

Of course it is indefinite. It doesn't have an end date.

indefinite
/ɪnˈdɛfɪnət/
Learn to pronounce
adjective
adjective: indefinite

1.
lasting for an unknown or unstated length of time.

 

[none]

But your analogy doesn't make sense. I have never been against quarantining people who have an infectious disease. I am against quarantining people who don't have the disease.

The problem is people don't know they have Covid. It's contagious before it shows symptoms. That's why it exploded across the world while SARS was stopped.

Being vaxxed does not change your level of awareness about having COVID.

With a communicable virus, they are not only taking unnecessary risk for themselves, but for everyone around them. Just like a person who takes an unnecessary risk by driving at high speed, exceeding the speed limit, on a crowded highway. You are advocating that we let them be a danger to everyone because they might become distressed by being forced to slow down.

People without COVID are not a danger to anybody in transmitting COVID.

You don't seem to understand the key issue here--people can't know they don't have Covid, thus this comparison is irrelevant.

I understand the issue. I reject forcing other people to get a medical procedure for your benefit.

Of course there could be long term effects from having had COVID. But the people who choose not to be vaccinated have decided that they are willing to take that risk for themselves.

They can choose to take the risk for themselves--but they don't get to choose to take it for others.

How about we make it a bit more fair--a lottery. Every person who refuses the vaccine is in the lottery. Every time someone who is vaccinated dies a name is drawn and that person is executed.

Hell, why not combine the lottery with house arrest? But the execution should be televised, and particularly inhumane and gruesome, to warn all the other people who refuse to be coerced into a medical procedure on their body.

Yes, you have somehow come to the conclusion that psychological harm, no matter the extent, is worse than death. That is not a view I have seen espoused from many people. In fact, in my experience, that makes you quite unique.

No, I do not mean that all psychological harm is worse than death.

You have described the lives of people forced to be vaccinated as wretched.

Toni's indefinite house arrest plan would make the lives of the unvaccinated wretched.

We have been over this - it is not indefinite. When someone has to resort to falsehoods to make an argument, there is no argument.

Of course it is indefinite. It doesn't have an end date.

indefinite
/ɪnˈdɛfɪnət/
Learn to pronounce
adjective
adjective: indefinite

1.
lasting for an unknown or unstated length of time.

like i mentioned EarLiErrrrrrr..... who cares if it's a thug?

 

[laughing dog]

But your analogy doesn't make sense. I have never been against quarantining people who have an infectious disease. I am against quarantining people who don't have the disease.

The problem is people don't know they have Covid. It's contagious before it shows symptoms. That's why it exploded across the world while SARS was stopped.

Being vaxxed does not change your level of awareness about having COVID.

With a communicable virus, they are not only taking unnecessary risk for themselves, but for everyone around them. Just like a person who takes an unnecessary risk by driving at high speed, exceeding the speed limit, on a crowded highway. You are advocating that we let them be a danger to everyone because they might become distressed by being forced to slow down.

People without COVID are not a danger to anybody in transmitting COVID.

You don't seem to understand the key issue here--people can't know they don't have Covid, thus this comparison is irrelevant.

I understand the issue. I reject forcing other people to get a medical procedure for your benefit.

Of course there could be long term effects from having had COVID. But the people who choose not to be vaccinated have decided that they are willing to take that risk for themselves.

They can choose to take the risk for themselves--but they don't get to choose to take it for others.

How about we make it a bit more fair--a lottery. Every person who refuses the vaccine is in the lottery. Every time someone who is vaccinated dies a name is drawn and that person is executed.

Hell, why not combine the lottery with house arrest? But the execution should be televised, and particularly inhumane and gruesome, to warn all the other people who refuse to be coerced into a medical procedure on their body.

Yes, you have somehow come to the conclusion that psychological harm, no matter the extent, is worse than death. That is not a view I have seen espoused from many people. In fact, in my experience, that makes you quite unique.

No, I do not mean that all psychological harm is worse than death.

You have described the lives of people forced to be vaccinated as wretched.

Toni's indefinite house arrest plan would make the lives of the unvaccinated wretched.

We have been over this - it is not indefinite. When someone has to resort to falsehoods to make an argument, there is no argument.

Of course it is indefinite. It doesn't have an end date.

indefinite
/ɪnˈdɛfɪnət/
Learn to pronounce
adjective
adjective: indefinite

1.
lasting for an unknown or unstated length of time

Fascinating, you resort to pedantry but omit the other definitions like "not clearly expressed or defined; vague." which "when the pandemic is over" is not. Is it possible to get a post that is devoid of straw man or disingenuousity from you?

 

[Toni]

1 it is in the news papers, it's common knowledge
2 the staff at the wherever can say there is a delay in care due to covid, there aren't any services we can offer YOU at this time
3 yeah he guessed that what he was reading in the papers was true after getting to the hospital and they refused care
Did he ask why?

He wasn't refused care. His son's care was triaged. He wrote:

"The ER was overwhelmed with unvaccinated COVID patients".

I can't tell from looking at somebody their vaccination status or their COVID status. It would be a rare talent indeed.

But I don't think he has that ability. Nor do I think somebody told him the presenting problems and medical history of the people in the ER. I think he guessed.

Triage only happens when medical capabilities are currently overloaded. (Note that "medical capabilities" is very broad in this context.)

Triage happens all day, every day, in every hospital emergency room on earth.

For fuck's sake the level of mental gymnastics. ARE YOU NOT DIZZY?

Really? You sure about that? You've been to exactly how many ERs? FWIW, I can attest that 'triage' doesn't happen at every ER every day of the year. AT least twice I brought in a child with an injury needing immediate medical help and....we were seen right away because there was literally no one in the waiting area when we went in. No. One.

Yes, I am sure of it. Every ER room needs and has a triage system.

Not quite what you wrote above....

And it is used every day in every ER room, even when only one person is presenting with a problem.

What triage procedure is applied when there is only one patient?

You would see that patient, as they are the highest priority.

EDIT: Also, what's the point of this point scoring? If Toni believes that ERs don't routinely have more than one patient, I don't know what to tell her. She has lived in a cossetted and privileged world if she thinks that.

Again, not what I wrote. I simply pointed out your inconsistency or rather the imprecision of your words.

You know, I grew up with sisters and I raised teenagers. These sorts of games bored me decades ago. Your participation does not make it more interesting.

 

[Metaphor]

But your analogy doesn't make sense. I have never been against quarantining people who have an infectious disease. I am against quarantining people who don't have the disease.

The problem is people don't know they have Covid. It's contagious before it shows symptoms. That's why it exploded across the world while SARS was stopped.

Being vaxxed does not change your level of awareness about having COVID.

With a communicable virus, they are not only taking unnecessary risk for themselves, but for everyone around them. Just like a person who takes an unnecessary risk by driving at high speed, exceeding the speed limit, on a crowded highway. You are advocating that we let them be a danger to everyone because they might become distressed by being forced to slow down.

People without COVID are not a danger to anybody in transmitting COVID.

You don't seem to understand the key issue here--people can't know they don't have Covid, thus this comparison is irrelevant.

I understand the issue. I reject forcing other people to get a medical procedure for your benefit.

Of course there could be long term effects from having had COVID. But the people who choose not to be vaccinated have decided that they are willing to take that risk for themselves.

They can choose to take the risk for themselves--but they don't get to choose to take it for others.

How about we make it a bit more fair--a lottery. Every person who refuses the vaccine is in the lottery. Every time someone who is vaccinated dies a name is drawn and that person is executed.

Hell, why not combine the lottery with house arrest? But the execution should be televised, and particularly inhumane and gruesome, to warn all the other people who refuse to be coerced into a medical procedure on their body.

Yes, you have somehow come to the conclusion that psychological harm, no matter the extent, is worse than death. That is not a view I have seen espoused from many people. In fact, in my experience, that makes you quite unique.

No, I do not mean that all psychological harm is worse than death.

You have described the lives of people forced to be vaccinated as wretched.

Toni's indefinite house arrest plan would make the lives of the unvaccinated wretched.

We have been over this - it is not indefinite. When someone has to resort to falsehoods to make an argument, there is no argument.

Of course it is indefinite. It doesn't have an end date.

indefinite
/ɪnˈdɛfɪnət/
Learn to pronounce
adjective
adjective: indefinite

1.
lasting for an unknown or unstated length of time

Fascinating, you resort to pedantry but omit the other definitions like "not clearly expressed or defined; vague." which "when the pandemic is over" is not. Is it possible to get a post that is devoid of straw man or disingenuousity from you?

First, it does not need to fit the other definitions if it fits the first.

Second, 'when the pandemic is over' is ludicrously vague, so it fits the second definition too.

Is it possible to get a post from you that isn't pointless, pedantic, persnickety, and wrong?

 

[Metaphor]

1 it is in the news papers, it's common knowledge
2 the staff at the wherever can say there is a delay in care due to covid, there aren't any services we can offer YOU at this time
3 yeah he guessed that what he was reading in the papers was true after getting to the hospital and they refused care
Did he ask why?

He wasn't refused care. His son's care was triaged. He wrote:

"The ER was overwhelmed with unvaccinated COVID patients".

I can't tell from looking at somebody their vaccination status or their COVID status. It would be a rare talent indeed.

But I don't think he has that ability. Nor do I think somebody told him the presenting problems and medical history of the people in the ER. I think he guessed.

Triage only happens when medical capabilities are currently overloaded. (Note that "medical capabilities" is very broad in this context.)

Triage happens all day, every day, in every hospital emergency room on earth.

For fuck's sake the level of mental gymnastics. ARE YOU NOT DIZZY?

Really? You sure about that? You've been to exactly how many ERs? FWIW, I can attest that 'triage' doesn't happen at every ER every day of the year. AT least twice I brought in a child with an injury needing immediate medical help and....we were seen right away because there was literally no one in the waiting area when we went in. No. One.

Yes, I am sure of it. Every ER room needs and has a triage system.

Not quite what you wrote above....

And it is used every day in every ER room, even when only one person is presenting with a problem.

What triage procedure is applied when there is only one patient?

You would see that patient, as they are the highest priority.

EDIT: Also, what's the point of this point scoring? If Toni believes that ERs don't routinely have more than one patient, I don't know what to tell her. She has lived in a cossetted and privileged world if she thinks that.

Again, not what I wrote. I simply pointed out your inconsistency or rather the imprecision of your words.

You know, I grew up with sisters and I raised teenagers. These sorts of games bored me decades ago. Your participation does not make it more interesting.

My words were not imprecise. ERs engage in triage all day every day. It is a fundamental background process, even when there is only a single presenting patient.

 

[Toni]

Probably as the kid's screaming in the waiting room, the intake nurse is trying to explain why they cannot rush the kid in for treatment right away cuz of the dumb fucks who suddenly WANT to trust medical science and medical professionals please don't sue us.
This is why the mandates are necessary, as a measure of self defense. The 'psychological' harm they may suffer pales in vomparison to the very real harm they are inflicting.

If a nurse disclosed somebody's private medical information (their vaccination status) to strangers, that nurse ought be disciplined.

But I doubt the nurse did. I think the person who posted the appendicitis story simply assumed the vaccination status (and COVID diagnosis) of a large number of people in the ER. It's a great party trick. In Australia, we're so behind the times we use PCR testing for a COVID diagnosis.

No HIPPA violation. It would be illegal for a nurse to disclose that patient X is unvaccinated. It is not illegal for the nurse to say that most of the patients are unvaccinated--that does not identify anyone's medical information.

COVID19 is a reportable disease. Statistics about reportable diseases (there are about 20 such diseases in the US) are collected and provided to state, local and territorial health departments in order to identify outbreaks and to control the spread of the disease. Such stats are routinely reported in news media, including local news in my town. In the US, COVID19 case statistics, including positive cases, hospitalizations and deaths due to COVID19 are collected and reported by county within each state. Sometimes, they are reported by city within a county as well. This data is easy to access and in fact, has been accessed and linked on this forum. So please quit pretending that someone violated HIPPA to know that their care/their loved one's care was compromised because the ER was overwhelmed by COVID19. In fact I know people who did get transferred by ambulance to another hospital because the one they showed up for with their emergency was full of COVID patients.

 

[Toni]

1 it is in the news papers, it's common knowledge
2 the staff at the wherever can say there is a delay in care due to covid, there aren't any services we can offer YOU at this time
3 yeah he guessed that what he was reading in the papers was true after getting to the hospital and they refused care
Did he ask why?

He wasn't refused care. His son's care was triaged. He wrote:

"The ER was overwhelmed with unvaccinated COVID patients".

I can't tell from looking at somebody their vaccination status or their COVID status. It would be a rare talent indeed.

But I don't think he has that ability. Nor do I think somebody told him the presenting problems and medical history of the people in the ER. I think he guessed.

Triage only happens when medical capabilities are currently overloaded. (Note that "medical capabilities" is very broad in this context.)

Triage happens all day, every day, in every hospital emergency room on earth.

For fuck's sake the level of mental gymnastics. ARE YOU NOT DIZZY?

Really? You sure about that? You've been to exactly how many ERs? FWIW, I can attest that 'triage' doesn't happen at every ER every day of the year. AT least twice I brought in a child with an injury needing immediate medical help and....we were seen right away because there was literally no one in the waiting area when we went in. No. One.

Yes, I am sure of it. Every ER room needs and has a triage system.

Not quite what you wrote above....

And it is used every day in every ER room, even when only one person is presenting with a problem.

What triage procedure is applied when there is only one patient?

You would see that patient, as they are the highest priority.

EDIT: Also, what's the point of this point scoring? If Toni believes that ERs don't routinely have more than one patient, I don't know what to tell her. She has lived in a cossetted and privileged world if she thinks that.

Again, not what I wrote. I simply pointed out your inconsistency or rather the imprecision of your words.

You know, I grew up with sisters and I raised teenagers. These sorts of games bored me decades ago. Your participation does not make it more interesting.

My words were not imprecise. ERs engage in triage all day every day. It is a fundamental background process, even when there is only a single presenting patient.

Definition; Triage: (in medical use) the assignment of degrees of urgency to wounds or illnesses to decide the order of treatment of a large number of patients or casualties.

One is not a large number

 

[Metaphor]

1 it is in the news papers, it's common knowledge
2 the staff at the wherever can say there is a delay in care due to covid, there aren't any services we can offer YOU at this time
3 yeah he guessed that what he was reading in the papers was true after getting to the hospital and they refused care
Did he ask why?

He wasn't refused care. His son's care was triaged. He wrote:

"The ER was overwhelmed with unvaccinated COVID patients".

I can't tell from looking at somebody their vaccination status or their COVID status. It would be a rare talent indeed.

But I don't think he has that ability. Nor do I think somebody told him the presenting problems and medical history of the people in the ER. I think he guessed.

Triage only happens when medical capabilities are currently overloaded. (Note that "medical capabilities" is very broad in this context.)

Triage happens all day, every day, in every hospital emergency room on earth.

For fuck's sake the level of mental gymnastics. ARE YOU NOT DIZZY?

Really? You sure about that? You've been to exactly how many ERs? FWIW, I can attest that 'triage' doesn't happen at every ER every day of the year. AT least twice I brought in a child with an injury needing immediate medical help and....we were seen right away because there was literally no one in the waiting area when we went in. No. One.

Yes, I am sure of it. Every ER room needs and has a triage system.

Not quite what you wrote above....

And it is used every day in every ER room, even when only one person is presenting with a problem.

What triage procedure is applied when there is only one patient?

You would see that patient, as they are the highest priority.

EDIT: Also, what's the point of this point scoring? If Toni believes that ERs don't routinely have more than one patient, I don't know what to tell her. She has lived in a cossetted and privileged world if she thinks that.

Again, not what I wrote. I simply pointed out your inconsistency or rather the imprecision of your words.

You know, I grew up with sisters and I raised teenagers. These sorts of games bored me decades ago. Your participation does not make it more interesting.

My words were not imprecise. ERs engage in triage all day every day. It is a fundamental background process, even when there is only a single presenting patient.

Definition; Triage: (in medical use) the assignment of degrees of urgency to wounds or illnesses to decide the order of treatment of a large number of patients or casualties.

One is not a large number

ERs engage in triage all day every day. It is a fundamental background process, even when there is only a single presenting patient.

 

[Toni]

1 it is in the news papers, it's common knowledge
2 the staff at the wherever can say there is a delay in care due to covid, there aren't any services we can offer YOU at this time
3 yeah he guessed that what he was reading in the papers was true after getting to the hospital and they refused care
Did he ask why?

He wasn't refused care. His son's care was triaged. He wrote:

"The ER was overwhelmed with unvaccinated COVID patients".

I can't tell from looking at somebody their vaccination status or their COVID status. It would be a rare talent indeed.

But I don't think he has that ability. Nor do I think somebody told him the presenting problems and medical history of the people in the ER. I think he guessed.

Triage only happens when medical capabilities are currently overloaded. (Note that "medical capabilities" is very broad in this context.)

Triage happens all day, every day, in every hospital emergency room on earth.

For fuck's sake the level of mental gymnastics. ARE YOU NOT DIZZY?

Really? You sure about that? You've been to exactly how many ERs? FWIW, I can attest that 'triage' doesn't happen at every ER every day of the year. AT least twice I brought in a child with an injury needing immediate medical help and....we were seen right away because there was literally no one in the waiting area when we went in. No. One.

Yes, I am sure of it. Every ER room needs and has a triage system.

Not quite what you wrote above....

And it is used every day in every ER room, even when only one person is presenting with a problem.

What triage procedure is applied when there is only one patient?

You would see that patient, as they are the highest priority.

EDIT: Also, what's the point of this point scoring? If Toni believes that ERs don't routinely have more than one patient, I don't know what to tell her. She has lived in a cossetted and privileged world if she thinks that.

Again, not what I wrote. I simply pointed out your inconsistency or rather the imprecision of your words.

You know, I grew up with sisters and I raised teenagers. These sorts of games bored me decades ago. Your participation does not make it more interesting.

My words were not imprecise. ERs engage in triage all day every day. It is a fundamental background process, even when there is only a single presenting patient.

Definition; Triage: (in medical use) the assignment of degrees of urgency to wounds or illnesses to decide the order of treatment of a large number of patients or casualties.

One is not a large number

ERs engage in triage all day every day. It is a fundamental background process, even when there is only a single presenting patient.

Have you ever worked in an ER? Does triage mean something different in Australia compared with the definition I provided?

Triage is practiced when acute care needs cannot be addressed due to limited resources. It directs care to those who need it most and can benefit from it most. Triage needs to balance multiple and sometimes contradictory needs simultaneously. Granted, in most large cities, ERs are frequently crowded with patients with needs ranging from minor to acute/life threatening, even when there is not a raging pandemic.

You are wrong that ALL ERs practice triage all day every day. That's simply untrue in the US.

 

[none]

oh he's a combat medic.... makes sure there are blanks... here you go..."it's cold"

 

[laughing dog]

But your analogy doesn't make sense. I have never been against quarantining people who have an infectious disease. I am against quarantining people who don't have the disease.

The problem is people don't know they have Covid. It's contagious before it shows symptoms. That's why it exploded across the world while SARS was stopped.

Being vaxxed does not change your level of awareness about having COVID.

With a communicable virus, they are not only taking unnecessary risk for themselves, but for everyone around them. Just like a person who takes an unnecessary risk by driving at high speed, exceeding the speed limit, on a crowded highway. You are advocating that we let them be a danger to everyone because they might become distressed by being forced to slow down.

People without COVID are not a danger to anybody in transmitting COVID.

You don't seem to understand the key issue here--people can't know they don't have Covid, thus this comparison is irrelevant.

I understand the issue. I reject forcing other people to get a medical procedure for your benefit.

Of course there could be long term effects from having had COVID. But the people who choose not to be vaccinated have decided that they are willing to take that risk for themselves.

They can choose to take the risk for themselves--but they don't get to choose to take it for others.

How about we make it a bit more fair--a lottery. Every person who refuses the vaccine is in the lottery. Every time someone who is vaccinated dies a name is drawn and that person is executed.

Hell, why not combine the lottery with house arrest? But the execution should be televised, and particularly inhumane and gruesome, to warn all the other people who refuse to be coerced into a medical procedure on their body.

Yes, you have somehow come to the conclusion that psychological harm, no matter the extent, is worse than death. That is not a view I have seen espoused from many people. In fact, in my experience, that makes you quite unique.

No, I do not mean that all psychological harm is worse than death.

You have described the lives of people forced to be vaccinated as wretched.

Toni's indefinite house arrest plan would make the lives of the unvaccinated wretched.

We have been over this - it is not indefinite. When someone has to resort to falsehoods to make an argument, there is no argument.

Of course it is indefinite. It doesn't have an end date.

indefinite
/ɪnˈdɛfɪnət/
Learn to pronounce
adjective
adjective: indefinite

1.
lasting for an unknown or unstated length of time

Fascinating, you resort to pedantry but omit the other definitions like "not clearly expressed or defined; vague." which "when the pandemic is over" is not. Is it possible to get a post that is devoid of straw man or disingenuousity from you?

First, it does not need to fit the other definitions if it fits the first.

Second, 'when the pandemic is over' is ludicrously vague, so it fits the second definition too.

Is it possible to get a post from you that isn't pointless, pedantic, persnickety, and wrong?

Wow, not only did you prove my point, you added a "No U R".

Only the impossibly obtuse or the desperate to save face would claim "when the pandemic is over" is "ludicrously vague".

 

[none]

1 it is in the news papers, it's common knowledge
2 the staff at the wherever can say there is a delay in care due to covid, there aren't any services we can offer YOU at this time
3 yeah he guessed that what he was reading in the papers was true after getting to the hospital and they refused care
Did he ask why?

He wasn't refused care. His son's care was triaged. He wrote:

"The ER was overwhelmed with unvaccinated COVID patients".

I can't tell from looking at somebody their vaccination status or their COVID status. It would be a rare talent indeed.

But I don't think he has that ability. Nor do I think somebody told him the presenting problems and medical history of the people in the ER. I think he guessed.

Triage only happens when medical capabilities are currently overloaded. (Note that "medical capabilities" is very broad in this context.)

Triage happens all day, every day, in every hospital emergency room on earth.

For fuck's sake the level of mental gymnastics. ARE YOU NOT DIZZY?

Really? You sure about that? You've been to exactly how many ERs? FWIW, I can attest that 'triage' doesn't happen at every ER every day of the year. AT least twice I brought in a child with an injury needing immediate medical help and....we were seen right away because there was literally no one in the waiting area when we went in. No. One.

Yes, I am sure of it. Every ER room needs and has a triage system.

Not quite what you wrote above....

And it is used every day in every ER room, even when only one person is presenting with a problem.

What triage procedure is applied when there is only one patient?

You would see that patient, as they are the highest priority.

EDIT: Also, what's the point of this point scoring? If Toni believes that ERs don't routinely have more than one patient, I don't know what to tell her. She has lived in a cossetted and privileged world if she thinks that.

Again, not what I wrote. I simply pointed out your inconsistency or rather the imprecision of your words.

You know, I grew up with sisters and I raised teenagers. These sorts of games bored me decades ago. Your participation does not make it more interesting.

My words were not imprecise. ERs engage in triage all day every day. It is a fundamental background process, even when there is only a single presenting patient.

your words are stupid.

 

[Metaphor]

But your analogy doesn't make sense. I have never been against quarantining people who have an infectious disease. I am against quarantining people who don't have the disease.

The problem is people don't know they have Covid. It's contagious before it shows symptoms. That's why it exploded across the world while SARS was stopped.

Being vaxxed does not change your level of awareness about having COVID.

With a communicable virus, they are not only taking unnecessary risk for themselves, but for everyone around them. Just like a person who takes an unnecessary risk by driving at high speed, exceeding the speed limit, on a crowded highway. You are advocating that we let them be a danger to everyone because they might become distressed by being forced to slow down.

People without COVID are not a danger to anybody in transmitting COVID.

You don't seem to understand the key issue here--people can't know they don't have Covid, thus this comparison is irrelevant.

I understand the issue. I reject forcing other people to get a medical procedure for your benefit.

Of course there could be long term effects from having had COVID. But the people who choose not to be vaccinated have decided that they are willing to take that risk for themselves.

They can choose to take the risk for themselves--but they don't get to choose to take it for others.

How about we make it a bit more fair--a lottery. Every person who refuses the vaccine is in the lottery. Every time someone who is vaccinated dies a name is drawn and that person is executed.

Hell, why not combine the lottery with house arrest? But the execution should be televised, and particularly inhumane and gruesome, to warn all the other people who refuse to be coerced into a medical procedure on their body.

Yes, you have somehow come to the conclusion that psychological harm, no matter the extent, is worse than death. That is not a view I have seen espoused from many people. In fact, in my experience, that makes you quite unique.

No, I do not mean that all psychological harm is worse than death.

You have described the lives of people forced to be vaccinated as wretched.

Toni's indefinite house arrest plan would make the lives of the unvaccinated wretched.

We have been over this - it is not indefinite. When someone has to resort to falsehoods to make an argument, there is no argument.

Of course it is indefinite. It doesn't have an end date.

indefinite
/ɪnˈdɛfɪnət/
Learn to pronounce
adjective
adjective: indefinite

1.
lasting for an unknown or unstated length of time

Fascinating, you resort to pedantry but omit the other definitions like "not clearly expressed or defined; vague." which "when the pandemic is over" is not. Is it possible to get a post that is devoid of straw man or disingenuousity from you?

First, it does not need to fit the other definitions if it fits the first.

Second, 'when the pandemic is over' is ludicrously vague, so it fits the second definition too.

Is it possible to get a post from you that isn't pointless, pedantic, persnickety, and wrong?

Wow, not only did you prove my point, you added a "No U R".

Only the impossibly obtuse or the desperate to save face would claim "when the pandemic is over" is "ludicrously vague".

It was vague when Toni said it originally and it's still vague.

But as I said, it is irrelevant. Toni wants a regime of indefinite house arrest, because her house arrest regime lasts for an unknown or unstated length of time.

 

[KeepTalking]

It's a shame the left has been so vindictive and hateful and condescending in America that they've hardened the hearts of so many Americans against vaccination. But I'm sure indefinite house arrest will soften their hearts and minds. Good luck.

That is 100% pure unadulterated bullshit. You need to stop consuming the conservative media coming out of the US. Vaccine hesitancy in the US has absolutely nothing to do with the left being hateful and condescending, and everything to do with the right spreading misinformation and outright lies, starting with their cult leader Donald Trump, and eventually spiraling out of their control.

 

[KeepTalking]

My words were not imprecise. ERs engage in triage all day every day. It is a fundamental background process, even when there is only a single presenting patient.

Definition; Triage: (in medical use) the assignment of degrees of urgency to wounds or illnesses to decide the order of treatment of a large number of patients or casualties.

One is not a large number

ERs engage in triage all day every day. It is a fundamental background process, even when there is only a single presenting patient.

Translation: You must respect my definitions while I ignore yours.

 

[KeepTalking]

But as I said, it is irrelevant. Toni wants a regime of indefinite house arrest, because her house arrest regime lasts for an unknown or unstated length of time.

Backed into a corner, the wild metaphor retreats to their favored strawman.