Daunte Wright shot with Taser. And by "taser," I mean, "Gun."

[Gospel]

I grew up knowing that if the cops are called it doesn't matter if you're innocent ya best BE GONE BEFORE THEY GET THERE.

 

[laughing dog]

Ah, a "whataboutism" based on race and your "truthiness" version of the facts.

Not at all.

It is a "whataboutism" injected with your biased view of the incident and cause of death.

Mr. Noor was originally sentenced to 12.5 years. The sentence was reduced to a ruling by the Mn Supreme Court

That ruling was an outrage given that he murdered an innocent woman for no reason.
Note how Keith Ellison has involved himself personally in the Potter case but has done nothing to fight for justice for Justine Damond.

The first sentence was an outrage. Mr. Chauvin's sentence is also an outrage. He murdered an innocent black man for no reason.

The stench you smell is your own bias.

Or rather the bias of Keith Ellison and of the MN Supreme Court (which is 5/7 Democratic).

First, you interject race and religion to justify your bigoted tirade. Now, it is political affiliation. Wow.

If Noor wasn't guilty of 3rd degree murder, how is Derek Chauvin?

Wow, you simply cannot stop with your obsession with race-based comparisons. It is fascinating to see you first complain that a black police officer received a too lenient sentence for killing a white woman and the complain about a white cop receiving a too severe sentence for killing a black man. I wonder what the difference is that is driving the 180 degree attitude change? Hmm....

 

[blastula]

May be heading for a hung jury. They asked the judge how long they should deliberate if can't agree. They also asked to be able to handle Potter's gun, which was allowed. The defense objected to allowing it, the state was fine with it.

 

[Gospel]

After seeing an image of Potter's Gun and Taser I can understand why the defense would object. It's easy for a Juror to just look at both of them closely and say, No F'ing way you can mistake these.

 

[laughing dog]

Apparently Potter had never used either her gun or the taser in the line of duty before.

Not sure about tasers, but vast majority of cops don't shoot their gun in anger at all throughout their careers.

Wright was pulled over by an over eager trainee for a minor infraction and killed by an officer who had never before had occasion to use either her gun or taser. Talk about a tragedy of errors.

Minor infraction that still caught a warrant. And Potter wasn't the only one who made a mistake. So did Wright.

Wright paid the ultimate price for both mistakes - Potter did not.

 

[Gospel]

I still think the charges will be dropped. Daunte's attempt to flee created a situation where Potter's attempt to stop him may not be seen as an unnecessary risk. They need to achieve beyond all doubt for that to get a guilty verdict on Second-Degree Manslaughter.

I think mistaking the Gun for Taser is where First-degree manslaughter applies and even that would be hard to achieve beyond all doubt that she was aware of her actions beforehand.

 

[Toni]

I still think the charges will be dropped. Daunte's attempt to flee created a situation where Potter's attempt to stop him may not be seen as an unnecessary risk. They need to achieve beyond all doubt for that to get a guilty verdict on Second-Degree Manslaughter.

I think mistaking the Gun for Taser is where First-degree manslaughter applies and even that would be hard to achieve beyond all doubt that she was aware of her actions beforehand.

Minnesota has a weird kind of charge that's either manslaughter or 3rd degree murder, which basically has a depraved indifference kind of condition--can't find it now. I don't think that's in the charges against Potter.

I am certain she did not mean to fire her gun at Wright. I am also certain she had a duty to know what she had in her hand before she discharged her weapon.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

White people in your area get busted for dealing drugs on the street? Where I live, not so much and it's a very, very white place.

Of course white people get busted when they deal drugs in the street. Where do you live anyway? Pleasantville?

I grew up in Stamford, CT, and I knew several white kids in my school who would habitually get caught smoking pot by the police and never even get arrested. It was a running joke in the community. Black kids on the other hand.....

Note that he said "deal drugs", not "smoke pot". Big goalpost move on your part.

 

[Toni]

White people in your area get busted for dealing drugs on the street? Where I live, not so much and it's a very, very white place.

Of course white people get busted when they deal drugs in the street. Where do you live anyway? Pleasantville?

I grew up in Stamford, CT, and I knew several white kids in my school who would habitually get caught smoking pot by the police and never even get arrested. It was a running joke in the community. Black kids on the other hand.....

Note that he said "deal drugs", not "smoke pot". Big goalpost move on your part.

Oh get off it Loren. I think you’ve reached your mansplaining Toni limit for the year.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

After seeing an image of Potter's Gun and Taser I can understand why the defense would object. It's easy for a Juror to just look at both of them closely and say, No F'ing way you can mistake these.

Yeah. They shouldn't be looking at the gun or the taser. Rather, they should have mockups of the part of the weapon that is gripped, but the rest of the weapon missing. She wasn't looking at her gun, what it looks like is of no relevance. These cases have made me wonder if the real problem is the design of the taser--it's designed a lot like a gun because form follows function. Fine when looked at independently, but when you're dealing with both guns and tasers I wonder if the similarity will increase the chance of confusion.

 

[Derec]

Wright paid the ultimate price for both mistakes - Potter did not.

Sure he did. And his family will probably profit from his mistakes to the tune of millions. Daunte's body was scarcely cold when they hired that hearse chaser Crump.

 

[Derec]

It is a "whataboutism" injected with your biased view of the incident and cause of death.

Just mindlessly repeating "whataboutism" like a mantra does not make it so.

The first sentence was an outrage.

As in too short? He should be in prison for at least as long as Chauvin. Also, why is AG Garner not prosecuting Noor federally like he did with Chauvin?

Mr. Chauvin's sentence is also an outrage. He murdered an innocent black man for no reason.

Floyd was a lot of things (e.g. armed robber, fentanyl fiend, meth head) but innocent he was not.

First, you interject race and religion to justify your bigoted tirade. Now, it is political affiliation. Wow.

The MN Supreme Court is unbalanced ideologically.
And race and religion certainly play a role in how the court saw the issue.
A white non-Muslim cop shooting and murdering an innocent black woman who called 911 would never in a million years be able to get away with mere five years in prison. Black Muslim privilege is strong in Minnesota.

Wow, you simply cannot stop with your obsession with race-based comparisons.

It's not an obsession when race and religion make a difference in how police shootings are handled.
Had Noor been white and a kafir and Damond black, first there would have been riots and Minneapolis would be burning and second he would be treated more like Chauvin with aggressive prosecution, a long sentence plus federal prosecution as well.
But because he is black and Muslim and his victim white, he is treated with kid gloves.

It is fascinating to see you first complain that a black police officer received a too lenient sentence for killing a white woman and the complain about a white cop receiving a too severe sentence for killing a black man.

Cops shooting people should be treated invariant of their race and the race of people they shoot. Why is that controversial? There should be no affirmative action in the criminal justice system!

I wonder what the difference is that is driving the 180 degree attitude change? Hmm....

There is no attitude change. It is consistent. Relative to Noor, Chauvin was treated overly harshly. Relative to Chauvin, Noor was treated very leniently. Same attitude, just different perspective.

 

[laughing dog]

It is a "whataboutism" injected with your biased view of the incident and cause of death.

Just mindlessly repeating "whataboutism" like a mantra does not make it so.

This thread is about the Daunte Wright shooting. The other shootings have nothing to do with this. You brought the other shooting for a "whatabout" whine.

The first sentence was an outrage.

As in too short? He should be in prison for at least as long as Chauvin. Also, why is AG Garner not prosecuting Noor federally like he did with Chauvin?

You mean why was Noor not charged with violating civil rights? Hmmm.

Mr. Chauvin's sentence is also an outrage. He murdered an innocent black man for no reason.

Floyd was a lot of things (e.g. armed robber, fentanyl fiend, meth head) but innocent he was not.

There you go again - Mr. Floyd was innocent of any crime at the time until proven guilty.

First, you interject race and religion to justify your bigoted tirade. Now, it is political affiliation. Wow.

The MN Supreme Court is unbalanced ideologically.
And race and religion certainly play a role in how the court saw the issue.
A white non-Muslim cop shooting and murdering an innocent black woman who called 911 would never in a million years be able to get away with mere five years in prison. Black Muslim privilege is strong in Minnesota.

You have no evidence to support your wildass claims about race and religion influence in these cases or Black Muslim privilege in Minnesota. Your imagination about counterfactual situations only reveals your biases and nothing else.

Wow, you simply cannot stop with your obsession with race-based comparisons.

It's not an obsession when race and religion make a difference in how police shootings are handled.
Had Noor been white and a kafir and Damond black, first there would have been riots and Minneapolis would be burning and second he would be treated more like Chauvin with aggressive prosecution, a long sentence plus federal prosecution as well.
But because he is black and Muslim and his victim white, he is treated with kid gloves.

Your imagination about counterfactual events is not relevant to a discussion about real events.

It is fascinating to see you first complain that a black police officer received a too lenient sentence for killing a white woman and the complain about a white cop receiving a too severe sentence for killing a black man.

Cops shooting people should be treated invariant of their race and the race of people they shoot. Why is that controversial? There should be no affirmative action in the criminal justice system!

As usual, you missed the point.

I wonder what the difference is that is driving the 180 degree attitude change? Hmm....

There is no attitude change. It is consistent. Relative to Noor, Chauvin was treated overly harshly. Relative to Chauvin, Noor was treated very leniently. Same attitude, just different perspective.

That is truly impressive spin. The Noor events and the Chauvin events are vastly different. Noor was a relative rookie officer and he made a split second mistake (like Potter). Once Noor fired his weapon there was nothing he could to do. On the otherhand, Chauvin was a veteran officer who made an 8 minute plus mistake and who could have stopped at any time but refused to, even when the victim and bystanders pleaded for him to ease up.

I agree that Noor was treated too leniently. I do not agree that Chauvin was treated too harshly.

 

[Derec]

People who are well off and/or educated also tend to be knowledgeable about their rights, and more willing to stand up for them.

They are also less likely to do something really stupid when interacting with police. Not a guarantee, but less likely.

 

[Toni]

It is a "whataboutism" injected with your biased view of the incident and cause of death.

Just mindlessly repeating "whataboutism" like a mantra does not make it so.

The first sentence was an outrage.

As in too short? He should be in prison for at least as long as Chauvin. Also, why is AG Garner not prosecuting Noor federally like he did with Chauvin?

Mr. Chauvin's sentence is also an outrage. He murdered an innocent black man for no reason.

Floyd was a lot of things (e.g. armed robber, fentanyl fiend, meth head) but innocent he was not.

First, you interject race and religion to justify your bigoted tirade. Now, it is political affiliation. Wow.

The MN Supreme Court is unbalanced ideologically.
And race and religion certainly play a role in how the court saw the issue.
A white non-Muslim cop shooting and murdering an innocent black woman who called 911 would never in a million years be able to get away with mere five years in prison. Black Muslim privilege is strong in Minnesota.

Wow, you simply cannot stop with your obsession with race-based comparisons.

It's not an obsession when race and religion make a difference in how police shootings are handled.
Had Noor been white and a kafir and Damond black, first there would have been riots and Minneapolis would be burning and second he would be treated more like Chauvin with aggressive prosecution, a long sentence plus federal prosecution as well.
But because he is black and Muslim and his victim white, he is treated with kid gloves.

It is fascinating to see you first complain that a black police officer received a too lenient sentence for killing a white woman and the complain about a white cop receiving a too severe sentence for killing a black man.

Cops shooting people should be treated invariant of their race and the race of people they shoot. Why is that controversial? There should be no affirmative action in the criminal justice system!

I wonder what the difference is that is driving the 180 degree attitude change? Hmm....

There is no attitude change. It is consistent. Relative to Noor, Chauvin was treated overly harshly. Relative to Chauvin, Noor was treated very leniently. Same attitude, just different perspective.

Seriouly, Derec, you are ill informed and pretty blatant in your biases.

Noor's longer sentence was vacated by the MN Supreme Court. I'm not a lawyer but my reading of the statute that he was convicted under did not actually fit the circumstances of his crime. Noor made a horrible, horrible mistake and it cost a woman her life. He was duly convicted of multiple charges and sentenced in accordance with those charges. Chauvin killed Floyd over the course of 10 minutes while Floyd begged for his life, in front of witnesses. Relative to their crimes, Chauvin's was many times worse.

Do I think that Justine Dammond was a better person than George Floyd? Almost certainly she was. But the trials are not about how good or bad the victim was. The trials are about how bad the crime was and whether the accused is guilty and what they are guilty of. Not what the victim is guilty of.

George Floyd paid for his crimes years before his death. Now it's Chauvin's turn to pay for his crimes.

 

[Derec]

You mean why was Noor not charged with violating civil rights? Hmmm.

Yes, that's exactly what I mean. White people have civil rights too, you know.

There you go again - Mr. Floyd was innocent of any crime at the time until proven guilty.

This is pure sophistry. Obviously nobody is convicted of a crime in question at the time of police interaction itself. That does not mean Floyd was innocent in the same sense Damond was. He was still a suspect being placed into custody. Damond called 911. A very big difference.

You have no evidence to support your wildass claims about race and religion influence in these cases or Black Muslim privilege in Minnesota.

The attorney general is a black Muslim with ties to Nation of Islam.
At the same time he is very aggressive against white cops (he personally overrode the local DA and upgraded charges against Potter) but far less aggressive against Noor.

Your imagination about counterfactual events is not relevant to a discussion about real events.

Thinking about what would happen if circumstances (race, religion) were different is very much relevant to questions about bias.

As usual, you missed the point.

No. You have. As usual.

That is truly impressive spin. The Noor events and the Chauvin events are vastly different.

Yes. Floyd was a suspect. Damond was not. Floyd's overdose and ill health played a role in his death. No such contributing circumstances were present with Damond.

Noor was a relative rookie officer and he made a split second mistake (like Potter).

Big difference with Potter is that she was right to go for a taser while Noor had no grounds to pull any weapon at Damond.

Once Noor fired his weapon there was nothing he could to do. On the otherhand, Chauvin was a veteran officer who made an 8 minute plus mistake and who could have stopped at any time but refused to, even when the victim and bystanders pleaded for him to ease up.

I am not saying Chauvin did nothing wrong. But that he has to serve 25 years while Noor will be out in 5 is sickening.

I agree that Noor was treated too leniently. I do not agree that Chauvin was treated too harshly.

Well at least we agree on one thing.

 

[Derec]

Seriouly, Derec, you are ill informed and pretty blatant in your biases.

BS.

Noor's longer sentence was vacated by the MN Supreme Court. I'm not a lawyer but my reading of the statute that he was convicted under did not actually fit the circumstances of his crime.

The MN Supreme Court has a 5-2 leftist bias. I am not a lawyer either, but their reasoning sounded like a reach to me. And five year sentence for what he did is outrageous. Even 12 years, the original sentence, was too lenient.

Noor made a horrible, horrible mistake and it cost a woman her life. He was duly convicted of multiple charges and sentenced in accordance with those charges. Chauvin killed Floyd over the course of 10 minutes while Floyd begged for his life, in front of witnesses. Relative to their crimes, Chauvin's was many times worse.

I disagree. Noor had no grounds to use any force on Damond. Chauvin at least had grounds to use force against Floyd because he resisted arrest. Furthermore, Floyd's overdose and poor health contributed to his death, something not given with Damond.
Noor's 3rd degree murder conviction should not have been vacated by the leftist court. Or are politically biased courts only a problem when the bias is a conservative one like in the current SCOTUS?

Do I think that Justine Dammond was a better person than George Floyd? Almost certainly she was. But the trials are not about how good or bad the victim was.

Why then is the prosecution in the Potter trial so eager to paint St. Daunte in a positive light?
Same thing happened with George Floyd who is being treated as a hero with statues of him being raised at the same time as statues of US presidents are being removed as being "controversial". It's disgusting!

The trials are about how bad the crime was and whether the accused is guilty and what they are guilty of. Not what the victim is guilty of.

What the shootee has been doing very much plays a role in whether force (and what level of force) was justified and thus plays a role in the crime. With Damond, no force was justified. With Floyd and Wright, some force was clearly justified. That Noor may well be spending the shortest amount of time in prison out of these three is pure racial politics, nothing more.

George Floyd paid for his crimes years before his death. Now it's Chauvin's turn to pay for his crimes.

And Noor should be paying for his crime in full. He should not be getting a discount for being of politically correct race and religion.

 

[atrib]

White people in your area get busted for dealing drugs on the street? Where I live, not so much and it's a very, very white place.

Of course white people get busted when they deal drugs in the street. Where do you live anyway? Pleasantville?

I grew up in Stamford, CT, and I knew several white kids in my school who would habitually get caught smoking pot by the police and never even get arrested. It was a running joke in the community. Black kids on the other hand.....

Note that he said "deal drugs", not "smoke pot". Big goalpost move on your part.

These kids were also selling pot to kids at school, and that makes them dealers. One of the potheads actually played bass in our band for a short time before we kicked him out, because he showed up for practice one Sunday morning with a big bag of pot wrapped in a grocery/paper bag under his arm. Rich kids with too much money and parents who were never around - lets deal some drugs, because the cops are never going to come after us.

Don't be an apologetic for racist police brutality.

 

[Toni]

Seriouly, Derec, you are ill informed and pretty blatant in your biases.

BS.

Noor's longer sentence was vacated by the MN Supreme Court. I'm not a lawyer but my reading of the statute that he was convicted under did not actually fit the circumstances of his crime.

The MN Supreme Court has a 5-2 leftist bias. I am not a lawyer either, but their reasoning sounded like a reach to me. And five year sentence for what he did is outrageous. Even 12 years, the original sentence, was too lenient.

Noor made a horrible, horrible mistake and it cost a woman her life. He was duly convicted of multiple charges and sentenced in accordance with those charges. Chauvin killed Floyd over the course of 10 minutes while Floyd begged for his life, in front of witnesses. Relative to their crimes, Chauvin's was many times worse.

I disagree. Noor had no grounds to use any force on Damond. Chauvin at least had grounds to use force against Floyd because he resisted arrest. Furthermore, Floyd's overdose and poor health contributed to his death, something not given with Damond.
Noor's 3rd degree murder conviction should not have been vacated by the leftist court. Or are politically biased courts only a problem when the bias is a conservative one like in the current SCOTUS?

Do I think that Justine Dammond was a better person than George Floyd? Almost certainly she was. But the trials are not about how good or bad the victim was.

Why then is the prosecution in the Potter trial so eager to paint St. Daunte in a positive light?
Same thing happened with George Floyd who is being treated as a hero with statues of him being raised at the same time as statues of US presidents are being removed as being "controversial". It's disgusting!

The trials are about how bad the crime was and whether the accused is guilty and what they are guilty of. Not what the victim is guilty of.

What the shootee has been doing very much plays a role in whether force (and what level of force) was justified and thus plays a role in the crime. With Damond, no force was justified. With Floyd and Wright, some force was clearly justified. That Noor may well be spending the shortest amount of time in prison out of these three is pure racial politics, nothing more.

George Floyd paid for his crimes years before his death. Now it's Chauvin's turn to pay for his crimes.

And Noor should be paying for his crime in full. He should not be getting a discount for being of politically correct race and religion.

Please get off the George Floyd was in ill health and that was why he died garbage barge. Floyd is hardly the only person who has died as a direct result of police kneeling on their necks. His was just the most recent, most egregious because it happened in front of a crowd of people begging for Floyd's life while Chauvin and fellow officers looked smug--which was recorded and hit the internet.

Noor did have zero grounds for using force on Dammond. It was a panicked mistake and is closer to what happened with Potter/Wright than Chauvin and Floyd. Despite what you think, you know close to nothing about Minnesota politics. Frankly, if Noor had been white and especially if Dammond had been black, I doubt he would have faced or been convicted of charges. Noor was under extra scrutiny because he is Somali-American.

 

[Gospel]

Noor was under extra scrutiny because he is Somali-American.

And the cynical side of me says he was one of the first sources of change in Minneapolis. In other words how they treated him put pressure on white officers in the coming days. But that's just cynical me not basing things on facts.