Breakdown In Civil Order

[Emily Lake]

I think I am a wizard

That right there invalidates every single thing that comes after it.

 

[Emily Lake]

Well, I've bought and sold pot. Bought and sold blotter acid. Bought and possessed methamphetamine. Bought and possessed opium. Drove drunk several times. I've never done a violent crime. Yeah, I was young and stupid. Now I haven't had a traffic ticket in thirty years (That could change since I've gotten the bimmer).

And do you think that you are EQUALLY AS LIKELY to rape someone as a convicted serial rapist?

 

[ZiprHead]

Well, I've bought and sold pot. Bought and sold blotter acid. Bought and possessed methamphetamine. Bought and possessed opium. Drove drunk several times. I've never done a violent crime. Yeah, I was young and stupid. Now I haven't had a traffic ticket in thirty years (That could change since I've gotten the bimmer).

And do you think that you are EQUALLY AS LIKELY to rape someone as a convicted serial rapist?

I'm as likely to rape someone as the serial rapist is in the conditions he's being kept.

 

[Emily Lake]

I do not believe that, and I don't have a clue why you imagine that I might.

I'd guess the same reason why you imagine you know what the fuck I believe.

 

[Emily Lake]

I don't think that laws to eliminate police pursuits that do more harm than good incentivise crime.

Oh, I absolutely do believe they incentivize crime. I know for a fact that it did so for my spouse.

When we lived in FL, the cops had a strict no pursuit policy for motorcycles. My spouse sped egregiously all the time. He did it in more rural areas and did so safely, but he absolutely sped like a fucking demon, well over 100 mph, multiple times a week. He would go for a ride with the absolute intention to go as fast as he could and push the limits.

When we moved to WA, the cops did NOT have that policy, and the DID pursue. Even beyond that - they communicated to each other, tracked offenders, and took action to find them while not in direct pursuit. My spouse sped ONCE... then he learned that he would be pursued and would lose his license if caught.

Guess who stopped speeding?

 

[Emily Lake]

In this thread I have learned that several members of this forum have only managed to refrain from being rapists because they haven't encountered the right circumstances.

 

[laughing dog]

I don't think that laws to eliminate police pursuits that do more harm than good incentivise crime.

Oh, I absolutely do believe they incentivize crime. I know for a fact that it did so for my spouse.

When we lived in FL, the cops had a strict no pursuit policy for motorcycles. My spouse sped egregiously all the time. He did it in more rural areas and did so safely, but he absolutely sped like a fucking demon, well over 100 mph, multiple times a week. He would go for a ride with the absolute intention to go as fast as he could and push the limits.

When we moved to WA, the cops did NOT have that policy, and the DID pursue. Even beyond that - they communicated to each other, tracked offenders, and took action to find them while not in direct pursuit. My spouse sped ONCE... then he learned that he would be pursued and would lose his license if caught.

Guess who stopped speeding?

If the FL police had taken his license number and then took action to find them while not in direct pursuit, do you think he would have stopped speeding? If your answer is "I think so", then it is not the no pursuit policy but an incompetent no pursuit policy that encourages crime.

 

[lpetrich]

I think that laughing dog is arguing that the FL police should have done what the WA police do: do coordinated pursuits.

 

[Jarhyn]

I think I am a wizard

That right there invalidates every single thing that comes after it.

As an added bonus, you are simply WRONG.

I'm sure then, if you think it invalidates anything, you can support that declaration of such with reasoning as to why.

And as an added bonus, you are simply WRONG.

We can both play the inane declaratory game where we handwave away what each other says. What you handwave away with inane declarations associated with my identity:

I know things about your mind exactly from the words that spill out of it and if you don't like people seeing into your mind through your words you can always simply stop speaking them

Complete and utter confidence, of the sort that is "100%", that YOU are better and YOU would never be bad to others is a sure enough indicator that you are not, but rather you are merely 100% blind to your own failings.

 

[Emily Lake]

If the FL police had taken his license number and then took action to find them while not in direct pursuit, do you think he would have stopped speeding? If your answer is "I think so", then it is not the no pursuit policy but an incompetent no pursuit policy that encourages crime.

I think that laughing dog is arguing that the FL police should have done what the WA police do: do coordinated pursuits.

At a certain speed, it's almost impossible to get the license plate off of a motorcycle.

But yes, if there had been actual consequences, his behavior would have been different. The lack of consequences for brazenly breaking the law definitely incentivized him to continue doing so.

 

[Emily Lake]

I'm sure then, if you think it invalidates anything, you can support that declaration of such with reasoning as to why.

Reasoning: Wizards are fictitious entities that do magic, which is also fictitious. They do not exist. Believing that you are something that does not exist, and insisting that other people should accept you as actually being a thing that does not exist is evidence of a need for psychotherapy.

 

[bilby]

Yeah, but that's because you believe that "violent criminal" is a class of unperson, rather than an action by a real human person.

STOP TELLING ME WHAT I BELIEVE.

You are wrong, completely wrong, and you are not a mind-reader. So screw off with your arrogant condescending assumptions about what I believe.

I am simply reiterating what you are telling me you believe.

If I am wrong, why do you keep saying things like:

"I absolutely 100% guarantee that I am NOT as likely to do those as certain other people are. With complete and utter confidence"?

This level of confidence is only possible if you believe that you are a fundamentally different kind of thing; I assume you believe yourself to be a person, therefore it follows from your own words that you believe criminals are not.

You may be violently opposed to either admitting it, or to having it pointed out to you. But it is nevertheless what you are telling the world you believe.

 

[bilby]

I don't think that laws to eliminate police pursuits that do more harm than good incentivise crime.

Oh, I absolutely do believe they incentivize crime. I know for a fact that it did so for my spouse.

When we lived in FL, the cops had a strict no pursuit policy for motorcycles. My spouse sped egregiously all the time. He did it in more rural areas and did so safely, but he absolutely sped like a fucking demon, well over 100 mph, multiple times a week. He would go for a ride with the absolute intention to go as fast as he could and push the limits.

When we moved to WA, the cops did NOT have that policy, and the DID pursue. Even beyond that - they communicated to each other, tracked offenders, and took action to find them while not in direct pursuit. My spouse sped ONCE... then he learned that he would be pursued and would lose his license if caught.

Guess who stopped speeding?

You have it backwards. The intent to commit the crime was already present in both cases; The law did nothing to incentivise crime in either case.

It did, however, disincentivise crime in the latter case.

Now, if the law was such that you felt you could easily get away with killing someone, would that fact make you more likely to kill someone?

I suspect you already kill as many people as you please. And that that number is zero.

Good law disincentivises bad behaviour; But bad law never provides an incentive for it. That comes from individual circumstances.

 

[bilby]

In this thread I have learned that several members of this forum have only managed to refrain from being rapists because they haven't encountered the right circumstances.

And if you had been paying attention, you would understand that that includes YOU.

But you don't understand that, because you believe that "violent criminal" is a class of unperson, rather than an action by a real human person.

There's no other possible explanation for your absolute refusal to even entertain the possibility that you could ever commit violent crimes.

You can't simultaneously claim that you do not think that, and yet suggest that it's unthinkable that all, or even many, people might be rapists or murderers in the wrong circumstances.

 

[Trausti]

In this thread I have learned that several members of this forum have only managed to refrain from being rapists because they haven't encountered the right circumstances.

And if you had been paying attention, you would understand that that includes YOU.

But you don't understand that, because you believe that "violent criminal" is a class of unperson, rather than an action by a real human person.

There's no other possible explanation for your absolute refusal to even entertain the possibility that you could ever commit violent crimes.

You can't simultaneously claim that you do not think that, and yet suggest that it's unthinkable that all, or even many, people might be rapists or murderers in the wrong circumstances.

You’re just trying to normalize your apparent internal demons. Don’t project on us, Dude.

 

[Emily Lake]

I am simply reiterating what you are telling me you believe.

You are absolutely not. You are telling me what you INFER that I believe, and you are incorrect in your inference. So, stop telling me that you know more about what I believe than I do, it's bullshit and it's insulting.

If I am wrong, why do you keep saying things like:

"I absolutely 100% guarantee that I am NOT as likely to do those as certain other people are. With complete and utter confidence"?

I can also absolutely 100% guarantee that I am NOT as likely to win a race as Usain Bolt. With complete and utter confidence.

Do you think that I believe Usain Bolt is subhuman?

This level of confidence is only possible if you believe that you are a fundamentally different kind of thing; I assume you believe yourself to be a person, therefore it follows from your own words that you believe criminals are not.

Not even remotely true, not even remotely rational. It follows from my words that I do not have the capacity to do those things. No more so than I have the capacity to beat Usain Bolt in a foot race.

You may be violently opposed to either admitting it, or to having it pointed out to you. But it is nevertheless what you are telling the world you believe.

Your ESP skills are massively lacking. Just stop already.

The sheer unmitigated arrogance of some asshole on the internet who does not actually know me insisting that he knows my thoughts better than I do based on his fucked-up interpretation of my written words, colored by his own biases and beliefs is just astonishing.

 

[Emily Lake]

And if you had been paying attention, you would understand that that includes YOU.

I disagree, quite strongly.

But you don't understand that, because you believe that "violent criminal" is a class of unperson, rather than an action by a real human person.

I believe no such thing.

There's no other possible explanation for your absolute refusal to even entertain the possibility that you could ever commit violent crimes.

There are many other possible explanations; you are unwilling to consider any other possible explanation that doesn't conform to your existing belief.

You can't simultaneously claim that you do not think that, and yet suggest that it's unthinkable that all, or even many, people might be rapists or murderers in the wrong circumstances.

I *don't* think that many people might be rapists or murderers in the wrong circumstances. I believe that an extremely small number of people would be rapists or murderers in the *wrong* circumstances. I also think that the vast majority of people who are rapists and murderers would be highly likely to be rapists and murderers NO MATTER THE CIRCUMSTANCES. At the very best, I think that some people who are rapists and murderers might not have committed those crimes if they had been DENIED THE OPPORTUNITY.

We are not blank slates. Nurture has influence on many things, but so does nature.

 

[bilby]

I am pretty sure that almost everyone can run. And that given the motivation and training, that pretty much everyone could run very fast.

Of course, most couldn't run as fast as Mr Bolt; But then, most murderers couldn't complete with the people who have killed millions. That doesn't make them incapable of murder.

If you don't want people to think you believe things, you need to stop saying things that clearly and obviously imply those beliefs.

Or you could continue your Egyptian river cruise.

 

[Emily Lake]

Stop telling me what you *think* I believe, based on your own fucked up beliefs! You are wrong. I know my brain better than you do, and you are simply wrong.

 

[bilby]

I also think that the vast majority of people who are rapists and murderers would be highly likely to be rapists and murderers NO MATTER THE CIRCUMSTANCES. At the very best, I think that some people who are rapists and murderers might not have committed those crimes if they had been DENIED THE OPPORTUNITY.

And that right there is EXACTLY what I have been saying that you believe, and what you have been denying you believe.

But you DO believe it.

And you are wrong. Very, very wrong.