barbos
Contributor
They did not have nuclear weapons. And they returned them in exchange for not being sanctioned to death.
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How should west respond to potential (likely) Russian invasion of Ukraine?
- Thread starter Harry Bosch
- Start date
Copernicus
Industrial Grade Linguist
How could Ukraine return weapons, if they did not have them?
No, they voluntarily gave them up for a solemn pledge by the Russian Federation to respect their sovereignty and a commitment by the UK and the US to guarantee their security if that commitment were reneged on. It was reneged on. The US and UK responded appropriately. Because of Russian aggression building against Ukrainian sovereignty from Russia, the NATO alliance also got involved in defending Ukrainian sovereignty. Russia violated its own commitment when it invaded sovereign Ukrainian territory on the pretext of helping partisan groups within Ukraine's border. Russian aggression and Russian expansionism brought this mess on Russia itself.
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steve_bank
Diabetic retinopathy and poor eyesight. Typos ...
Russia is a serous economic threat to the American auto maker.
California versus Russian GDP. California has about 40 million people.
While I do not like the Chinese political system, the Chinese people get a lot of credit for in a shirt period transformed China from a backwards poor failed state to a modern global economy. They are industrious, hard working, and creative.
Contrast with Russia which is stagnant. Putin insists on standing apart from the world economy inched of working with the western systems as a partner.
China has a long history going back to ancient times. Technology in the ancient world, manufacturing technology even mass production.
The Russian revolution got rid of the educated monarchy, aristocracy, and the middle class that made things go and kept the peasants. Maybe Russia ssimply lacks the cultual DNA and hstory to do what China did.
California versus Russian GDP. California has about 40 million people.
While I do not like the Chinese political system, the Chinese people get a lot of credit for in a shirt period transformed China from a backwards poor failed state to a modern global economy. They are industrious, hard working, and creative.
Contrast with Russia which is stagnant. Putin insists on standing apart from the world economy inched of working with the western systems as a partner.
China has a long history going back to ancient times. Technology in the ancient world, manufacturing technology even mass production.
The Russian revolution got rid of the educated monarchy, aristocracy, and the middle class that made things go and kept the peasants. Maybe Russia ssimply lacks the cultual DNA and hstory to do what China did.
barbos
Contributor
Yes, his views evolved.
Henry-Finland
Senior Member
This video:
- 1710 Russian casualties in one day.
- VIDEO: Russian soldiers tell how their drunk commander caused 90% of deaths of the personnel
The commander tries now to eliminate the rest of his troops as they do not obey the drunken commander.
- The Akhmat commander tells how they have won the war against NATO.
- Russians try everything before the mud season.
- New Ukrainian anti-drone weapons
- Oil company Yukos, the former vice-president “jumped out of a window”…
- Year 1994: Clinton is asked “if he would be willing to support Ukraine’s integrity if Russia seized Crimea after UA gave up its nuclear arsenal.
(Do you guess the answer? Did he answer?)
-Etc .etc.
SLD
Contributor
680,000 casualties so far, over 118,000 KIA. Greatest loss of Russians since the end of WWII.
Actually not so many Russians, because Putin tries to put this on other ethnicities. Now he’s asking for North Korean personnel. Insane.
Your military sucks. The latest reports are of a drunk Russian commander getting so many killed he decided to send them all to their deaths so they wouldn’t complain. Your military has a bunch of drunk commanders. At some point you have to be concerned that they will turn on their masters.
TV and credit cards
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bilby
Fair dinkum thinkum
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Sure, but there's only so much wealth you can get from laundering shirts, so they had to diversify.
Harry Bosch
Contributor
There would be a lot more Russian soldiers and Ukrainians alive today if they had kept their nukes.
TV and credit cards
Contributor
Moldova move a little closer to EU membership in spite of Russian meddling. Fugitive oligarch Elon Musk Ilan Shor tried to buy enough votes to sway the referendum but it was not enough. Moldova will now write into its constitution, EU accession as its goal.
President Maia Sandu looks poised to be reelected as president this next month.
Fuck you Russia.
President Maia Sandu looks poised to be reelected as president this next month.
Fuck you Russia.
steve_bank
Diabetic retinopathy and poor eyesight. Typos ...
I listened to he several times in interviews. Seems reparable. Small Moldova telling Russia to fuck off.
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steve_bank
Diabetic retinopathy and poor eyesight. Typos ...
I meant 'seems remarkable'.
barbos
Contributor
barbos
Contributor
No, they did not. Expectation was to get 80%, instead they got 50.5 and even that number was achieved by ...... huge moldavan diasporas in the west which was more than likely fake votes. It is a fiasco.
barbos
Contributor
Actually they said that to Sandu. She basically confirmed that by blaming poor results on Russia.
barbos
Contributor
barbos
Contributor
These nukes were never theirs. They were soviet (russian) nukes which happened to be stationed in Ukraine (among other republics) And if by some miracle Ukraine were able to keep them then there would have been shitload of dead New Yorkers.
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Copernicus
Industrial Grade Linguist
In Soviet mythological lore, all of the Soviet Socialist Republics were equal, so none of them really owned the nuclear weapons. They were held collectively by the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. When the Soviet Union collapsed, those weapons within sovereign boundaries of the republics became their property, not Russia's. The US and its allies wanted the Russian Federation to inherit all of those weapons, so the agreement was for Ukraine to voluntarily give them up in exchange for a pledge to recognize Ukrainian independent sovereignty. Russia took the weapons and then failed to abide by its side of the agreement. It was as simple as that. If Ukraine had retained them, Russia would not have dared to invade Ukrainian territory.
In reality, however, the Soviet Union was always a sham. It was just a reconstituted version of the old Russian Empire, with Russians treated as the real masters within its boundaries. So revanchists like barbos feel entitled to ownership not just of the nuclear weapons, but the actual occupied territories of the former Russo-Soviet empire.