How should west respond to potential (likely) Russian invasion of Ukraine?

[pood]

I came up with a name for Putin, Raskputikov a take on the character Raskolnikov in Dostoevsky's Crime And Punishment.

Rodion Raskolnikov - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

It is later revealed that he also commits the murder as justification for his pride, as he wants to prove that he is "exceptional" in the way Napoleon was.

That is Putin. Proving to himself he is a mighty conqueror.

The novel ends quite differently than Putin will. Raskolnikov repents in a Siberia prison. Putin will never repent and I expect his end will be quite violent.

 

[ZiprHead]

Russia Fines Man Who Dyed Hair in Ukraine Flag Colors - The Moscow Times

A Moscow resident who dyed his hair in the colors of the Ukrainian flag has been found guilty of "discrediting the army" and fined, court documents showed.

www.themoscowtimes.com

Fined for yellow and blue shoes: How Russian laws smother dissent

Since the invasion of Ukraine, the measures used to clamp down on Kremlin critics have swelled.

www.bbc.com

Whataboutism? I did not say that Russia was a standard for freedom of speech and expression.
You said that the West was. Last time I checked Baltic States were the West.

Here they're the east.

 

[bilby]

Here they're the east.

From here (Long. 153°E), even the Far East is west.

 

[TV and credit cards]

The voice of Putin on this forum is making it very clear that a Russian’s path to comfort is paved with obsequiousness and mindless repetition of counterfactual Putinist propaganda.
A good gig (for a Russian) if you can get it.

I can't imagine it's a paid gig. His annual performance review would have had him on the front line a year ago.

 

[Elixir]

The voice of Putin on this forum is making it very clear that a Russian’s path to comfort is paved with obsequiousness and mindless repetition of counterfactual Putinist propaganda.
A good gig (for a Russian) if you can get it.

I can't imagine it's a paid gig. His annual performance review would have had him on the front line a year ago.

I totally disagree. I think he’s middle of the pack at least. Writes decent ZEnglish, understands some idioms- not quite like your average troll farm content generator.
Most Russians who are fluent in English are also quite dismayed by the shit that Putin is serving up to his Countrymen.
Of course the ones still stuck in Russia don’t say that.

 

[Henry-Finland]

Meanwhile in Ukraine:



Year 2022 and before the generals thought that drones are a bad joke - not anymore.
Now Ukraine has about 50 drone factories that have governmental contracts. Now they produce about 1 million drones per year.
Some 150 smaller or bigger factories have not any contracts - yet.
Within a year, they will come up to producing 4 million drones per year.

 

[Henry-Finland]

The newest about drones is discussed here:

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Do you (the usual suspect) realize that the official narrative is changing?
It's not longer your usual "Evil Putin must be stopped or we all will be living in gulags"

The narrative hasn’t changed for me. I favor stopping imperialism. I’m also against American imperialism when it happens. I think that all countries should keep their damn military within their own UN recognized boundaries unless they are directly attacked. Period. And Utin invaded a sovereign country.

Plenty of other cases.

Should you sit by and let a friend be attacked? I don't see that as required.

And then there are special cases like the US troops in Korea. Fundamentally, they are a tripwire--North Korea knows that even if they were to successfully invade South Korea that they would kill enough US troops in the process that we would respond. Is that evil?

 

[Harry Bosch]

p

Do you (the usual suspect) realize that the official narrative is changing?
It's not longer your usual "Evil Putin must be stopped or we all will be living in gulags"

The narrative hasn’t changed for me. I favor stopping imperialism. I’m also against American imperialism when it happens. I think that all countries should keep their damn military within their own UN recognized boundaries unless they are directly attacked. Period. And Utin invaded a sovereign country.

Plenty of other cases.

Should you sit by and let a friend be attacked? I don't see that as required.

And then there are special cases like the US troops in Korea. Fundamentally, they are a tripwire--North Korea knows that even if they were to successfully invade South Korea that they would kill enough US troops in the process that we would respond. Is that evil?

The difference here is South Korea invited us to help them defend their country. That’s not imperialism.

 

[bilby]

Should you sit by and let a friend be attacked?

Countries don't have friends. They have interests.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The video looks homemade.

And your point is?
It's argentinian citizen who was refused entrance into Estonia on the basis that she was a student in russian university.
She was detained, lost money on the ticket to the bus and was kicked out back to Russia.
Estonian border officers were rude obnoxious and out of control.

Doesn't exactly surprise me. People with sufficiently close ties to Russia aren't exactly welcome in a lot of the world right now.

Rejections at borders sometimes happen. I've been refused entry once--political situation inside the country, nothing to do with us. And it was more than a bus ticket at stake--we had to backtrack two countries and then go down an unsavory road. (Rule #1: Do not stop for any reason. There is no rule #2.)

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Here they're the east.

From here (Long. 153°E), even the Far East is west.

Obviously the geographers are lying, thus the Flat Earthers must be right!

I've flown to the Far East multiple times. I always go west.

And I supposedly live two days in the future (I've crossed the International Date Line westbound two more times than I've crossed it eastbound) yet I seem to be in the same present as everyone else.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

p

Do you (the usual suspect) realize that the official narrative is changing?
It's not longer your usual "Evil Putin must be stopped or we all will be living in gulags"

The narrative hasn’t changed for me. I favor stopping imperialism. I’m also against American imperialism when it happens. I think that all countries should keep their damn military within their own UN recognized boundaries unless they are directly attacked. Period. And Utin invaded a sovereign country.

Plenty of other cases.

Should you sit by and let a friend be attacked? I don't see that as required.

And then there are special cases like the US troops in Korea. Fundamentally, they are a tripwire--North Korea knows that even if they were to successfully invade South Korea that they would kill enough US troops in the process that we would respond. Is that evil?

The difference here is South Korea invited us to help them defend their country. That’s not imperialism.

Exactly--but that's not what you said.

The reality is that troops should not be sent into a country that doesn't want them there without very good reason.

 

[barbos]

Russia Fines Man Who Dyed Hair in Ukraine Flag Colors - The Moscow Times

A Moscow resident who dyed his hair in the colors of the Ukrainian flag has been found guilty of "discrediting the army" and fined, court documents showed.

www.themoscowtimes.com

Fined for yellow and blue shoes: How Russian laws smother dissent

Since the invasion of Ukraine, the measures used to clamp down on Kremlin critics have swelled.

www.bbc.com

Whataboutism? I did not say that Russia was a standard for freedom of speech and expression.
You said that the West was. Last time I checked Baltic States were the West.

Here they're the east.

Don't tell that to estonian border officer on your next visit to Tallinn

 

[barbos]

The video looks homemade.

And your point is?
It's argentinian citizen who was refused entrance into Estonia on the basis that she was a student in russian university.
She was detained, lost money on the ticket to the bus and was kicked out back to Russia.
Estonian border officers were rude obnoxious and out of control.

Doesn't exactly surprise me. People with sufficiently close ties to Russia aren't exactly welcome in a lot of the world right now.

Rejections at borders sometimes happen. I've been refused entry once--political situation inside the country, nothing to do with us. And it was more than a bus ticket at stake--we had to backtrack two countries and then go down an unsavory road. (Rule #1: Do not stop for any reason. There is no rule #2.)

Let me repeat it again. It was not simple rejection, it was border officer meltdown.

 

[barbos]

The video looks homemade.

And your point is?
It's argentinian citizen who was refused entrance into Estonia on the basis that she was a student in russian university.
She was detained, lost money on the ticket to the bus and was kicked out back to Russia.
Estonian border officers were rude obnoxious and out of control.

Damn! You should attack them for such rudeness. Sounds like a good pretext for war.

That's not out plan. Our plan is to wait until they die/emigrate out.

Russians are the ones dying. In droves. Your country is fucked up, dude.

Yes, your propaganda says that ukrainian conscripts kidnapped from the street kills russian volunteer army with 1 year training in droves.

 

[steve_bank]

Barbos The Russian Barbarian and Vlad The Russian Destroyer would make a great TV wrestling tag team combination.

 

[barbos]

Was watching ukrainian opposition channel and found this.
It's about that Budapest memorandum the usual suspects like to point out.
Someone actually read it and made a discovery that it actually does not do anything good for Ukraine and in fact it actually
can be interpreted against Ukraine.
Basically that memorandum says that countries which signed it give assurances to not use nukes against Ukraine, that's basically all. That makes sense - Ukraine gave up nukes and countries promised to not use nukes against Ukraine in exchange. (Ukraine did not actually have nukes to give up but let's ignore that)
And even that is not 100% because there is a loophole - if Ukraine allies itself with nuclear country (US) and attacks somebody who has nukes (Russia) then memorandum does not apply.
Basically Russia can use nukes in Ukraine.

 

[steve_bank]

Ukraine on the collapse of the Soc vet Union gave up nuclear weapons in ex chge for guaranteed security.

Russia annexed Crimea then invaded Ukraine.

There was no threat to Russia militarily. Ukraine decided economically to go with the EU insisted of the Russian Fed ration.

Unacceptable to Putin who wanted Ukraine integrated into the Russian Federation. Putin tried to intimidate Ukraine by weaponizing energy supplies.

Russia invaded.

Barbos can post all the videos he wants, it comes down to an unjustified invasion of Ukraine and near genocide.

If I were sitting on a war crimes tribunal I would vote to hang Putin.

 

[steve_bank]

I came up with a name for Putin, Raskputikov a take on the character Raskolnikov in Dostoevsky's Crime And Punishment.

Rodion Raskolnikov - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

It is later revealed that he also commits the murder as justification for his pride, as he wants to prove that he is "exceptional" in the way Napoleon was.

That is Putin. Proving to himself he is a mighty conqueror.

The novel ends quite differently than Putin will. Raskolnikov repents in a Siberia prison. Putin will never repent and I expect his end will be quite violent.

So what?