The RFK Jr. Thread

Swammerdami said:

But while I've got your attention, thebeave, tell us this: Do you REALLY think Trump was being "sarcastic" when he made his ignorant comments about the virus and possible remedies?

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We could start with:
"It's no worse than a cold. We'll have the country open by Easter."
Tom

Jimmy Higgins said:

Swammerdami said:

thebeave said:

Swammerdami said:

I wont hunt down a citation (and never saw an estimate of the relevant absolute numbers of "excess deaths") but studies showed that the death rate among Republicans was MUCH higher than among Democrats, at least after vaccines were available. The Ds followed science, while the Rs went out and bought bleach for injection or whatever.

Unfortunately the excess deaths among Republican voters were insufficient to save democracy.

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It's really strange to me how not that long ago, it was the D's who were strongly anti-vaxxers, and the R's were the pro-vaxxers, particularly in my area of California. Marin County being the most prominent example.

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Apples with oranges. MMR vaccines operate against diseases which have become very rare. Herd immunity protects unvaccinated children. Not vaccinating one's kids might be a rational -- though anti-social -- decision.

This is NOT to defend anti-vaxers -- they should be condemned regardless of political stereotypes -- but it's absurd to compare reluctance to use the MMR vaccine with reluctance to take Covid-19 vaccine when that disease was readily apparent, and spreading quickly with often-lethal result.

I'm afraid Mr. beave has stretched to expose some of his own prejudices.

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I quite disagree. Being against the MMR vaccine (especially if you got it as child oneself) is quite stupid and not that much different than against the Covid-19 vaccine. Yes Covid-19 was an immediate threat and measles, mumps, rubella, etc... are further back from being a direct threat, but that is due to constant immunization.

The far left has long had an issue with science. While some aspects they have about unregulated big business and science being manipulated for corporate gain are not unfounded, those issues do not trump the fact that immunizations are the second most important development in human history, just behind the Haber-Bosch process development.

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Yep. The MMR vaccine has been around for decades, and has proven itself safe and effective. The covid vaccine was new and didn't have that advantage. Plus, the data indicated that covid was mostly a disease of the elderly. obese and/or immunocompromised. Young, healthy children were seen pretty early on not to be greatly affected by covid. So, it is somewhat understandable why a parent might be reluctant to vaccinate their kids for covid. For MMR, its more of a no-brainer.

thebeave said:

Jimmy Higgins said:

Swammerdami said:

thebeave said:

Swammerdami said:

I wont hunt down a citation (and never saw an estimate of the relevant absolute numbers of "excess deaths") but studies showed that the death rate among Republicans was MUCH higher than among Democrats, at least after vaccines were available. The Ds followed science, while the Rs went out and bought bleach for injection or whatever.

Unfortunately the excess deaths among Republican voters were insufficient to save democracy.

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It's really strange to me how not that long ago, it was the D's who were strongly anti-vaxxers, and the R's were the pro-vaxxers, particularly in my area of California. Marin County being the most prominent example.

Click to expand...

Apples with oranges. MMR vaccines operate against diseases which have become very rare. Herd immunity protects unvaccinated children. Not vaccinating one's kids might be a rational -- though anti-social -- decision.

This is NOT to defend anti-vaxers -- they should be condemned regardless of political stereotypes -- but it's absurd to compare reluctance to use the MMR vaccine with reluctance to take Covid-19 vaccine when that disease was readily apparent, and spreading quickly with often-lethal result.

I'm afraid Mr. beave has stretched to expose some of his own prejudices.

Click to expand...

I quite disagree. Being against the MMR vaccine (especially if you got it as child oneself) is quite stupid and not that much different than against the Covid-19 vaccine. Yes Covid-19 was an immediate threat and measles, mumps, rubella, etc... are further back from being a direct threat, but that is due to constant immunization.

The far left has long had an issue with science. While some aspects they have about unregulated big business and science being manipulated for corporate gain are not unfounded, those issues do not trump the fact that immunizations are the second most important development in human history, just behind the Haber-Bosch process development.

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Yep. The MMR vaccine has been around for decades, and has proven itself safe and effective. The covid vaccine was new and didn't have that advantage. Plus, the data indicated that covid was mostly a disease of the elderly. obese and/or immunocompromised. There are tens of thousands to over a hundred thousand that are dead because of their ignorance (most of it willful) on Covid-19. Thankfully Covid-19 wasn't like the Influenza epidemic around the end of WWI and children weren't harmed much by it.

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Funny how the lefty softly spins stupidity one way (but those diseases aren't an imminent threat) and then the righty softly spins stupidity in another (we didn't have decades of evidence to rely on and it only hurt the elderly anyway, Using paranoia to soft sell paranoia..).

thebeave said:

Young, healthy children were seen pretty early on not to be greatly affected by covid. So, it is somewhat understandable why a parent might be reluctant to vaccinate their kids for covid. For MMR, its more of a no-brainer.

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No brainer indeed. Thank fucking gawd we didn't have such no brainer decisions when MMR was being introduced and didn't have that decades of evidence to back it up! Back then people thought the idea of not getting needlessly sick was a smart idea.

Axulus said:

RVonse said:

Axulus said:

blastula said:

This is f

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Please watch the video I posted above. It is a sanity check for your mind. Do you find yourself agreeing with what RFK Jr. says, or is that part of your mind that screams "this is utter unhinged bullshit." going active? There is no lukewarm position here.

If you find yourself agreeing with RFK Jr. in that video, or simply unable to tell the difference, I have to break it to you but the rational part of your brain is completely broken.

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Do you believe people who have seen UFO's and say they have seen alien spacecraft are batshit crazy? Maybe they are but I don't have enough evidence to know. I know I have never seen an alien or UFO myself but does that mean these other people are batshit crazy? Eespecially when some of these sightings were recorded by our government.

I have the same problem pigeon holing RFK Jr as a nut. Namely because there are so many other ways our fascist government (completely in bed with corporations)has proven to be corrupt and non transparent. I personally do not believe the public has been told the full story about the pandemic. All we know is that the response to the pandemic was way over kill for an ordinary virus. But probably the reasonable response for a government attempting to contain a bio weapon engineered virus.

Its not fair to call RFK a nut just yet unless we uncover all the truth. And thats not easy to do unless the US and Chinese governments become a whole lot more transparent.

RFK Jr. previously compared Trump to Hitler - Politico

Trump probably considers it a compliment.

And he was able to get past this,

Jimmy Higgins said:

I quite disagree. Being against the MMR vaccine (especially if you got it as child oneself) is quite stupid and not that much different than against the Covid-19 vaccine.

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I'm afraid that you've completely missed the point. You are yourself falling for a false propaganda meme.

The point is that when the MMR vaccine was introduced, M, M & R were brutal commonplace diseases. That is no longer the case in vaccinated communities. Do I really need to Google for exact numbers to clarify the point?? A century ago the incidence of M, M or R was 5%; now it's 0.000005% in vaccinated communities. Google if you really need to know exactly how many zeroes there are there.

Vaccination carries a slight risk. The risks claimed by "rich liberals in Marin County" may be completely stupid, but there ARE some risks. Risks that vastly outweigh the risk of contracting M, M or R in a community where everyone else is vaccinated. Capische?

We do NOT insist that "rich liberals" -- to impose a partisan meme as is the wont here -- vaccinate their children, because we worry that their children will contract such a disease. They won't. They are protected by herd immunity. We mandate vaccination because we need to keep it mandatory. If upper-class "liberals" refuse to vaccinate, the middle-class will want to follow suit and if ENOUGH people refuse to vaccinate then "herd immunity" is lost.

I thought this was all very well-known. Contrary thinking is an example of political correctness by left-wingers! You want vaccinations to be mandatory which is indeed correct public policy but espouse using obviously-wrong science. The M,M,R viruses do not arise via Abiogenesis; Their occurrence is vanishingly small a community with 99.9% herd immunity.

Jimmy Higgins said:

Yes Covid-19 was an immediate threat and measles, mumps, rubella, etc... are further back from being a direct threat, but that is due to constant immunization.

The far left has long had an issue with science.

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No quarrel there. Posts like yours defending mandatory vaccinations for the WRONG reason are a case in point.

Jimmy Higgins said:

No brainer indeed. Thank fucking gawd we didn't have such no brainer decisions when MMR was being introduced and didn't have that decades of evidence to back it up!

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Hunh? Did you think there was 99.9% herd immunity throughout America BEFORE the vaccine?? What kind of phony "science" is America teaching these days?

thebeave said:

Yep. The MMR vaccine has been around for decades, and has proven itself safe and effective. The covid vaccine was new and didn't have that advantage. ... a no-brainer.

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I asked YOU two specific questions to test where you're coming from; this would help us evaluate your input. No answers? Too embarrassing?

Swammerdami said:

thebeave said:

Yep. The MMR vaccine has been around for decades, and has proven itself safe and effective. The covid vaccine was new and didn't have that advantage. ... a no-brainer.

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I asked YOU two specific questions to test where you're coming from; this would help us evaluate your input. No answers? Too embarrassing?

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You asked more than two questions, which two are you talking about?

And regarding the MMR vaccination, it is still important to do even if the diseases are rare in the general population. Perhaps you don't remember this? It was kind of a close call, and there is really no excuse for a measles outbreak in a 1st world country, don't you think?

What California’s 2015 Measles Outbreak Can Teach Us About Vaccine Policy

Last month, a familiar headline made its way across the country’s news outlets—measles is back.

The first case was confirmed in Clark County, Washington and quickly spread to nearby counties. As of February 27, 2019 there have been 70 documented cases in the Pacific Northwest. The majority of the cases are among unvaccinated children under the age of 10.

But this is no isolated incident. Measles has been cropping up with troubling frequency in the last several years (see Figure 1), and in 2015, California experienced its most severe measles outbreak in over a decade. With its epicenter at the Disneyland in Orange County, the outbreak ultimately infected 110 Californians and at least 15 others in neighboring states, many of whom were unvaccinated.

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thebeave said:

Swammerdami said:

thebeave said:

Yep. The MMR vaccine has been around for decades, and has proven itself safe and effective. The covid vaccine was new and didn't have that advantage. ... a no-brainer.

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I asked YOU two specific questions to test where you're coming from; this would help us evaluate your input. No answers? Too embarrassing?

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You asked more than two questions, which two are you talking about?

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They were addressed to you specifically and came at the very end of my post (#79). If you don't want to answer them, that's understandable.

thebeave said:

And regarding the MMR vaccination, it is still important to do even if the diseases are rare in the general population.

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EXACTLY as I explained in my post. Pay attention.

Swammerdami said:

thebeave said:

Swammerdami said:

thebeave said:

Yep. The MMR vaccine has been around for decades, and has proven itself safe and effective. The covid vaccine was new and didn't have that advantage. ... a no-brainer.

Click to expand...

I asked YOU two specific questions to test where you're coming from; this would help us evaluate your input. No answers? Too embarrassing?

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You asked more than two questions, which two are you talking about?

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They were addressed to you specifically and came at the very end of my post (#79). If you don't want to answer them, that's understandable.

thebeave said:

And regarding the MMR vaccination, it is still important to do even if the diseases are rare in the general population.

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EXACTLY as I explained in my post. Pay attention.

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My answer to question #1 is: I guess not.

My answer to question #2 is: I'm not sure.

Jimmy Higgins said:

the fact that immunizations are the second most important development in human history, just behind the Haber-Bosch process development.

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I agree that they are very important, but your choice of first and second place in the list of most important inventions is an opinion, not a fact.

While they would be in my top ten, both would be lower down my list than the oral contraceptive pill (which defused the population bomb), or nuclear fission (which is the technology that can prevent catastrophic carbon dioxide emmision levels), or containerized shipping (which made famine impossible without political and/or military action to cause it).

There's little point in growing more food, if it perishes before it can be distributed to the hungry.

(There's also little point in debating the relative importance of the top ten, or even top hundred, developments, inventions and technologies; Without any of them, we would be joined using an inclined plane wound helically about a central axis).

thebeave said:

it is somewhat understandable why a parent might be reluctant to vaccinate their kids for covid. For MMR, its more of a no-brainer.

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It's not understandable that we, as a society, are so commited to individualism as to consider a parent's opinion about what is best for their child to be more important than the demonstrated welfare of every child in our society.

The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one.

Even if we accept the dubious premise that an individual parent is improving his child's overall chances of a long and healthy life, by not vaccinating their child, we must nevertheless recognize that this is only true if most other parents choose to vaccinate theirs.

Being the only parent to refuse is (perhaps) better for your child; Being one of many to refuse is (definitely) worse for your child than vaccinating would have been.

So refusing to vaccinate is placing a bet that you are in a very small minority of selfish people. If selfishness is common, vaccination is the wiser choice.

Are you confident that selfishness is very rare? Are you truly confident that you are exceptionally and extremely selfish, and that almost everyone is less selfish than you are?

That seems like a poor bet (and like a very odd thing to be bragging about, though that's a different discussion).

I tend to think that Dentists know a lot more about fluoridated water then the brainworm guy does, especially greedy corporate dentists. So, this one's for you Rvonse.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/rfk-jr-fluoride-dental-company-stocks/#

Robert F. Kennedy Jr.'s concerns about the health effects of fluoride may already be helping some Americans — investors in dental services companies.

Shares in Dentsply Sirona, Envista, Henry Schein Patterson Companies, and other providers of dental products are jumping, with Wall Street betting that a potential push by the incoming Trump administration to remove fluoride from the nation's drinking water could spur demand for the companies' services.

Kennedy, tapped by President-elect Donald Trump to lead the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, said on social media just ahead of the November 5 presidential election that Trump would rid fluoride from the public water supply on his first day in office. Kennedy, a noted vaccine skeptic, has described fluoride as an "industrial waste" and linked it to arthritis, neurological deficiencies in children and other serious health problems.

"The thought here is RFK will bring to HHS a voice that is in favor of reducing, or eliminating, the amount of fluoridation that is added to drinking water," Don Bilson, Gordon Haskett's head of event-driven research, told investors in a report, according to NBC News. "This will, in turn, lead to an acceleration of tooth decay and more dental visits."

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People are saying, in Trump’s America, a Kennedy assassinates you.

Heard on the internet: Trump could make RFK Jr a sirham sirham sandwich and and he would eat it.

blastula said:

RFK Jr. previously compared Trump to Hitler - Politico

Trump probably considers it a compliment.

And he was able to get past this,

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I’m guessing JD Vance still doesn’t like Trump.

ZiprHead said:

Heard on the internet: Trump could make RFK Jr a sirham sirham sandwich and and he would eat it.

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Huh? Which one of them would eat it?
Trump made his first sandwich for someone else just weeks ago, and it dominated a news cycle.

Saw a comment: "fluoridation is a great thing. It's Floridation we should be worried about."

RVonse said:

Do you believe people who have seen UFO's and say they have seen alien spacecraft are batshit crazy? Maybe they are but I don't have enough evidence to know. I know I have never seen an alien or UFO myself but does that mean these other people are batshit crazy? Eespecially when some of these sightings were recorded by our government.

I have the same problem pigeon holing RFK Jr as a nut. Namely because there are so many other ways our fascist government (completely in bed with corporations)has proven to be corrupt and non transparent. I personally do not believe the public has been told the full story about the pandemic. All we know is that the response to the pandemic was way over kill for an ordinary virus. But probably the reasonable response for a government attempting to contain a bio weapon engineered virus.

Its not fair to call RFK a nut just yet unless we uncover all the truth. And thats not easy to do unless the US and Chinese governments become a whole lot more transparent.

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This without a doubt the stupidest argument you have ever made. "RFK Jnr is not a nut because aliens might be real".

Let me provide you with the best piece of free advice you will ever receive; channelling Lauren Boebert is the best way to have one lose an argument and look incredibly stupid.

We're so fucked. Such is the price of not making science and critical thinking education a priority.