2020 Election Results

[bilby]

The most simple explanation as to why there is regular inconsistency between polling and vote results is election fraud inflating the results in favor of republicans.

Certainly wouldn't dismiss that explanation. But there are definitely others to consider. And the reality is probably a combination of various factors.

Another possibility is that pollsters aren't that good at predicting who exactly will vote. I honestly believe that a huge part of the reason that Clinton seriously underperformed the polling is that lots of people were so confident that she'd win, they didn't bother to go vote themselves. How can pollsters accurately control for "overconfidence"?
Tom

The obvious and most democratic solution is the one we have here - make voting mandatory, and turnout becomes a non-issue.

Obviously the GOP would do pretty much anything to prevent such a disaster. But it would be great for Americans in general.

Of course, it's a secret ballot, so voting isn't actually mandatory here at all; Participation is mandatory, but there's nothing at all to prevent a voter from submitting a blank or spoiled paper as a protest. I have worked counting votes for the AEC, and some people make an art form of submitting an "informal" (ie uncountable) vote. The AEC still just tally them as informal though, so the people who write policy essays on their papers are wasting their time. Some seem to genuinely think that the Prime Minister will read what they submitted. Of course, others prefer profanity, or crude depictions of genitalia. Regardless, the informal vote is typically around five percent, and turnout is around 95%, so the vast majority of eligible voters do cast countable ballots.

 

[Patooka]

The obvious and most democratic solution is the one we have here - make voting mandatory, and turnout becomes a non-issue.

Obviously the GOP would do pretty much anything to prevent such a disaster. But it would be great for Americans in general.

Of course, it's a secret ballot, so voting isn't actually mandatory here at all; Participation is mandatory, but there's nothing at all to prevent a voter from submitting a blank or spoiled paper as a protest. I have worked counting votes for the AEC, and some people make an art form of submitting an "informal" (ie uncountable) vote. The AEC still just tally them as informal though, so the people who write policy essays on their papers are wasting their time. Some seem to genuinely think that the Prime Minister will read what they submitted. Of course, others prefer profanity, or crude depictions of genitalia. Regardless, the informal vote is typically around five percent, and turnout is around 95%, so the vast majority of eligible voters do cast countable ballots.

I don't think mandatory voting is the prime reason why voter turnout is so high in Australia. It's a component, sure, but I suspect the two big reasons are:

a) It's on a Saturday, because having elections on a Tuesday post the 18th century is just fucking stupid.

b) The democracy sausage. That's not me being flippant - I think helping a particular charity/sporting club/school etc with a $2 sandwich is a powerful incentive to vote.

I honestly suspect if a or b were to ever change, the amount of people who would just say, "Fuckit, I'll just pay the fine" would increase significantly. Not that I condone such an attitude. I think I may have mentioned before that if you don't vote, you forfeit your right to bitch about what the Government is doing.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Yeah, voting compulsory in Australia, but I’ve never bothered to vote in an election in Australia. I haven’t been fined either, so they aren’t watching too closely.

 

[bilby]

The obvious and most democratic solution is the one we have here - make voting mandatory, and turnout becomes a non-issue.

Obviously the GOP would do pretty much anything to prevent such a disaster. But it would be great for Americans in general.

Of course, it's a secret ballot, so voting isn't actually mandatory here at all; Participation is mandatory, but there's nothing at all to prevent a voter from submitting a blank or spoiled paper as a protest. I have worked counting votes for the AEC, and some people make an art form of submitting an "informal" (ie uncountable) vote. The AEC still just tally them as informal though, so the people who write policy essays on their papers are wasting their time. Some seem to genuinely think that the Prime Minister will read what they submitted. Of course, others prefer profanity, or crude depictions of genitalia. Regardless, the informal vote is typically around five percent, and turnout is around 95%, so the vast majority of eligible voters do cast countable ballots.

I don't think mandatory voting is the prime reason why voter turnout is so high in Australia. It's a component, sure, but I suspect the two big reasons are:

a) It's on a Saturday, because having elections on a Tuesday post the 18th century is just fucking stupid.

b) The democracy sausage. That's not me being flippant - I think helping a particular charity/sporting club/school etc with a $2 sandwich is a powerful incentive to vote.

I honestly suspect if a or b were to ever change, the amount of people who would just say, "Fuckit, I'll just pay the fine" would increase significantly. Not that I condone such an attitude. I think I may have mentioned before that if you don't vote, you forfeit your right to bitch about what the Government is doing.

Well I cannot argue with the power of the democracy sausage.

And Saturday voting is certainly a good idea - though maybe Sunday would be better.

But the legal requirement to vote has very strong influence not only on voters, but on the AEC and on employers, both of whom are significantly pressured not to let citizens fall afoul of the law through their negligence.

 

[bilby]

Yeah, voting compulsory in Australia, but I’ve never bothered to vote in an election in Australia. I haven’t been fined either, so they aren’t watching too closely.

Yeah, well apparently it's mandatory to drive with your headlights on when it's raining in Sweden. But I have never been fined by the Queensland police for not having my lights on, even though it's almost always raining somewhere in Sweden.

 

[Gun Nut]

Yeah, voting compulsory in Australia, but I’ve never bothered to vote in an election in Australia. I haven’t been fined either, so they aren’t watching too closely.

Yeah, well apparently it's mandatory to drive with your headlights on when it's raining in Sweden. But I have never been fined by the Queensland police for not having my lights on, even though it's almost always raining somewhere in Sweden.

Perfect grammar is something with which up I will not put. However, I believe it is that in Sweden, it's mandatory to drive with your headlights on when it's raining..

 

[ZiprHead]

Judge Orders Arizona Republicans to Pay $18,000 for “Groundless” Election Suit

A judge from the Maricopa County Superior Court of Arizona has ordered the state’s Republican Party and its lawyers to pay over $18,000 in attorney fees that were incurred during their failed attempts to mount a legal challenge to the election results and President Joe Biden’s win in the state.

Judge John Hannah was scathing in his decision released on Friday, saying that the suit was “groundless,” partially because the Republicans sued the wrong people and because their reasons for bringing the lawsuit were “flimsy” and “improper.” The Republican Party claimed that the Arizona secretary of state had misstated the law but then named county election officials as the defendants in their suit instead of the secretary of state. It failed to acknowledge this error.

He also says in his decision that the arguments from the party’s lawyers represented “a lack of good faith” and that their questioning of the Court’s inquiries into their own arguments was “gaslighting.”

“Arizona law gives political parties a privileged position in the electoral process on which our self-government depends,” Hannah concludes. “The public has a right to expect the Arizona Republican Party to conduct itself respectfully when it participates in that process. It has failed to do so in this case.” The $18,000 in fees had previously been paid for with taxpayer money.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Yeah, voting compulsory in Australia, but I’ve never bothered to vote in an election in Australia. I haven’t been fined either, so they aren’t watching too closely.

Yeah, well apparently it's mandatory to drive with your headlights on when it's raining in Sweden. But I have never been fined by the Queensland police for not having my lights on, even though it's almost always raining somewhere in Sweden.

Perfect grammar is something with which up I will not put. However, I believe it is that in Sweden, it's mandatory to drive with your headlights on when it's raining..

In Pennsylvania I believe the law is that if you are using your windshield wipers you must have your headlights turned on.

 

[crazyfingers]

Perfect grammar is something with which up I will not put. However, I believe it is that in Sweden, it's mandatory to drive with your headlights on when it's raining..

In Pennsylvania I believe the law is that if you are using your windshield wipers you must have your headlights turned on.

Same here in massachusetts. But the cops don't just not enforce that law, they are most likely to break it. I'd guess 15%ish of regular people ignore the law. 70%ish of the cops break it.

 

[ZiprHead]

Perfect grammar is something with which up I will not put. However, I believe it is that in Sweden, it's mandatory to drive with your headlights on when it's raining..

In Pennsylvania I believe the law is that if you are using your windshield wipers you must have your headlights turned on.

Same here in massachusetts. But the cops don't just not enforce that law, they are most likely to break it. I'd guess 15%ish of regular people ignore the law. 70%ish of the cops break it.

I've noticed on my car, if the headlights are set to automatic, they come on when you use the wipers. I don't remember seeing that in the owners manual but it's cool anyway.

 

[bilby]

Yeah, voting compulsory in Australia, but I’ve never bothered to vote in an election in Australia. I haven’t been fined either, so they aren’t watching too closely.

Yeah, well apparently it's mandatory to drive with your headlights on when it's raining in Sweden. But I have never been fined by the Queensland police for not having my lights on, even though it's almost always raining somewhere in Sweden.

Perfect grammar is something with which up I will not put. However, I believe it is that in Sweden, it's mandatory to drive with your headlights on when it's raining..

That's going to make the roads very congested, and seems counterproductive. Surely it makes more sense for people to be allowed to stay at home when it's raining? Those Swedes are crazy.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

That's socialism for ya.

 

[crazyfingers]

Same here in massachusetts. But the cops don't just not enforce that law, they are most likely to break it. I'd guess 15%ish of regular people ignore the law. 70%ish of the cops break it.

I've noticed on my car, if the headlights are set to automatic, they come on when you use the wipers. I don't remember seeing that in the owners manual but it's cool anyway.

Ya. My headlights come on automatically when the wipers are on. Not for just a squert of wiper fluid but if they are set to intermittent or on, headlights are automatic.

 

[Gun Nut]

Same here in massachusetts. But the cops don't just not enforce that law, they are most likely to break it. I'd guess 15%ish of regular people ignore the law. 70%ish of the cops break it.

I've noticed on my car, if the headlights are set to automatic, they come on when you use the wipers. I don't remember seeing that in the owners manual but it's cool anyway.

Ya. My headlights come on automatically when the wipers are on. Not for just a squert of wiper fluid but if they are set to intermittent or on, headlights are automatic.

My headlights come on when I start the car and stay on for 30 seconds after I turn it off... I never even think about them.

 

[crazyfingers]

Ya. My headlights come on automatically when the wipers are on. Not for just a squert of wiper fluid but if they are set to intermittent or on, headlights are automatic.

My headlights come on when I start the car and stay on for 30 seconds after I turn it off... I never even think about them.

Ya those are probably your high beams running at low power. But your red back lights are probably still off. Mine does that too. But when my wipers go on the car switches to low beams at regular power and the back lights turn on.

 

[Elixir]

it's mandatory to drive with your headlights on when it's raining in Sweden.

How the fuck am I supposed to know when it's raining in Sweden?

 

[Shadowy Man]

it's mandatory to drive with your headlights on when it's raining in Sweden.

How the fuck am I supposed to know when it's raining in Sweden?

“Hey Siri, what’s the weather in Sweden?”

Worked for me.

 

[crazyfingers]

I invoke my Constitutional rights as an US citizen not to follow Sweden's laws when I am not in Sweden. And I am unanimous!

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I invoke my Constitutional rights as an US citizen not to follow Sweden's laws when I am not in Sweden. And I am unanimous!

That is a slippery slope man. First people in America aren't driving with wipers on when it rains in Sweden, then Americans don't vote in Australian elections, then flat out, non-hyperbolic Armageddon.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

it's mandatory to drive with your headlights on when it's raining in Sweden.

How the fuck am I supposed to know when it's raining in Sweden?

Yeah. It's surprising how hard it is to find an answer to "did it rain yesterday in [location]?"