A discussion of the “biology” of sex, by gender

[Emily Lake]

The bolded is my main gripe with the article. The article hinges on the point that women are 'socialized' to ignore their pain, but where's the evidence?

This is one of those things that I doubt anyone has done any research on... simply because it's pretty much the way it has always been. Consider:

The first time you have sex, you should expect it to hurt some... but don't worry, you'll get past it.
Sure, if you're not all the way aroused, entry can be painful or uncomfortable, but as things get moving, you'll moisten up and it'll be okay.
If you're petite, that means it'll be a nice tight squeeze for your man - and he'll really enjoy that. And since women are supposed to really crave giant enormous penises, it's just expected that you'll occasionally end up with your cervix being beat up some... we'll try to adjust a bit so the bruising of that particular organ isn't as bad.

These are essentially things I have actually been told by actual men in the course of actual sex. At no point have I ever told a guy "Well, I understand that this hurts your penis, but don't worry about it, once we get going you'll enjoy it, it'll work out just fine!"

Oh, and let's add to that... the approach that women don't have to have an orgasm to enjoy sex, it's okay if a woman doesn't climax. But hey, men get blue-balls, so it's really important that they get full satisfaction so that they aren't left in pain

 

[Emily Lake]

If your belief is that women require a penis to experience sexual pleasure or orgasm, you are quite mistaken. If you believe that all female partners are eager for their male partners to use ED drugs, you are sadly mistaken. Quite a few women would be happy to dispense with intercourse altogether.

This is particularly true in older couples, where menopause reduces natural lubrication as well as libido. For women, sex when not aroused and fully lubricated is almost always painful sex.

And contrary to the popular myth... most women I have talked to don't want 4 hours of uninterrupted sex. All that does is leave us sore and bruised the next day. A skilled partner could indulge in 25 minutes of foreplay and about 5 minutes of sex, and we'd be very, very, very well-satisfied.

 

[Emily Lake]

My mother always said, if there were a third gender, most women would marry it.

I think your mother is very wise.

 

[Emily Lake]

i'm not saying "ha ha, men are so bad at sex" isn't common both in actual reality and in terms of pop-culture quips, i'm just saying that both the fact that so many men are terrible at sex and the fact it's been just sort of accepted as a thing like "shrug... what're you gonna do?" are both really fucked up and weird to me and hard for me to figure out why people find that an acceptable way of being.

i wasn't in any way directing my previous post or this post at you specifically, merely that you expressed an idea that i am seemingly alone in finding baffling, and i commented on it partially because it made me think of it, and maybe partially to see if anyone agrees with me or if i'm the only nutcase out there who thinks that way.

I don't think you're alone in that... it's just that a large number of the people who share your bafflement are women.

 

[prideandfall]

I find this very strange. What exactly is so shitty that you would compare this to using the term "nigger knife"?

well, to be clear, specifically that both are things that society deemed acceptable at one point.
with one of them, society eventually figured out that's not cool and changed its attitude about it... and i would hope that eventually society will change its attitude towards the other as well.
in the mean time, for me standing in the middle of our current cultural zeitgeist about sex i feel like i'm standing in the deep south going "don't you people know you can't do that? jeez"

I mean, essentially you have a situation in the world were most people aren't particularly good at sex, but most man will be fine with any sex at all, but most women wont be (all though I would say the majority of people, male or female, are not particularly good at sex).

well, i'd argue that to be "good at sex" on a physical level a woman's partner needs to be specifically skilled and learned in how to be good at it (or lucky enough to have a knack for it without any notable instruction), and to be "good at sex" for a man on a physical level you need a hole that's preferably moist into which we can thrust repeatedly.

there are obviously going to be extreme outliers to this, but as a general rule i think that most men can only be good at sex if they try, whereas most women can only be bad at sex if they try.

 

[rousseau]

The bolded is my main gripe with the article. The article hinges on the point that women are 'socialized' to ignore their pain, but where's the evidence?

This is one of those things that I doubt anyone has done any research on... simply because it's pretty much the way it has always been. Consider:

The first time you have sex, you should expect it to hurt some... but don't worry, you'll get past it.
Sure, if you're not all the way aroused, entry can be painful or uncomfortable, but as things get moving, you'll moisten up and it'll be okay.
If you're petite, that means it'll be a nice tight squeeze for your man - and he'll really enjoy that. And since women are supposed to really crave giant enormous penises, it's just expected that you'll occasionally end up with your cervix being beat up some... we'll try to adjust a bit so the bruising of that particular organ isn't as bad.

These are essentially things I have actually been told by actual men in the course of actual sex. At no point have I ever told a guy "Well, I understand that this hurts your penis, but don't worry about it, once we get going you'll enjoy it, it'll work out just fine!"

Oh, and let's add to that... the approach that women don't have to have an orgasm to enjoy sex, it's okay if a woman doesn't climax. But hey, men get blue-balls, so it's really important that they get full satisfaction so that they aren't left in pain

The problem here is that anecdotal evidence and the subjective opinions do not mean evidence. It's very easy to claim something is true, but that does not mean that it's actually true, and until there is solid evidence we don't really know the full reason behind the behavior.

This type of thing is well documented, in almost any scenario people find it obvious what the reason for something is, but data very often reveals that reason to be wrong. So until there is data it's better to not make claims and misinform people based on your political leanings.

 

[Keith&Co.]

Speaking for myself, I enjoy having sex with men.

Oh, sure.
I got the impression she liked some activity with men, it was the long-term relationships where problems cropped up, mostly due to differences in the approaches to relationships. The old 'women are from venus, men are trying to find them on mars' thing.

 

[Toni]

The bolded is my main gripe with the article. The article hinges on the point that women are 'socialized' to ignore their pain, but where's the evidence?

This is one of those things that I doubt anyone has done any research on... simply because it's pretty much the way it has always been. Consider:

The first time you have sex, you should expect it to hurt some... but don't worry, you'll get past it.
Sure, if you're not all the way aroused, entry can be painful or uncomfortable, but as things get moving, you'll moisten up and it'll be okay.
If you're petite, that means it'll be a nice tight squeeze for your man - and he'll really enjoy that. And since women are supposed to really crave giant enormous penises, it's just expected that you'll occasionally end up with your cervix being beat up some... we'll try to adjust a bit so the bruising of that particular organ isn't as bad.

These are essentially things I have actually been told by actual men in the course of actual sex. At no point have I ever told a guy "Well, I understand that this hurts your penis, but don't worry about it, once we get going you'll enjoy it, it'll work out just fine!"

Oh, and let's add to that... the approach that women don't have to have an orgasm to enjoy sex, it's okay if a woman doesn't climax. But hey, men get blue-balls, so it's really important that they get full satisfaction so that they aren't left in pain

The problem here is that anecdotal evidence and the subjective opinions do not mean evidence. It's very easy to claim something is true, but that does not mean that it's actually true, and until there is solid evidence we don't really know the full reason behind the behavior.

This type of thing is well documented, in almost any scenario people find it obvious what the reason for something is, but data very often reveals that reason to be wrong. So until there is data it's better to not make claims and misinform people based on your political leanings.

The thing is, when it comes to sex, the only data that counts is what a specific individual likes with a specific individual at a specific point in time under specific conditions.

It doesn’t matter if 99% of the women responding to 100 surveys said they liked it or what the last 17 girls you shagged said they liked it; it only matters what the person you’re currently shagging likes.

That’s the only data point that matters.

 

[Emily Lake]

The problem here is that anecdotal evidence and the subjective opinions do not mean evidence. It's very easy to claim something is true, but that does not mean that it's actually true, and until there is solid evidence we don't really know the full reason behind the behavior.

Ha ha ha ha ha...

Seriously? Well, I suppose the anecdotal evidence and subjective opinions of oppressed minorities in the 1940s really didn't mean anything. I mean, it definitely didn't mean that it was actually true that black people were treated differently and expected to just be okay with it. I mean, we don't really know the full reason behind the behavior, right?

Sheesh.

 

[rousseau]

The problem here is that anecdotal evidence and the subjective opinions do not mean evidence. It's very easy to claim something is true, but that does not mean that it's actually true, and until there is solid evidence we don't really know the full reason behind the behavior.

This type of thing is well documented, in almost any scenario people find it obvious what the reason for something is, but data very often reveals that reason to be wrong. So until there is data it's better to not make claims and misinform people based on your political leanings.

The thing is, when it comes to sex, the only data that counts is what a specific individual likes with a specific individual at a specific point in time under specific conditions.

It doesn’t matter if 99% of the women responding to 100 surveys said they liked it or what the last 17 girls you shagged said they liked it; it only matters what the person you’re currently shagging likes.

That’s the only data point that matters.

The problem here is that anecdotal evidence and the subjective opinions do not mean evidence. It's very easy to claim something is true, but that does not mean that it's actually true, and until there is solid evidence we don't really know the full reason behind the behavior.

Ha ha ha ha ha...

Seriously? Well, I suppose the anecdotal evidence and subjective opinions of oppressed minorities in the 1940s really didn't mean anything. I mean, it definitely didn't mean that it was actually true that black people were treated differently and expected to just be okay with it. I mean, we don't really know the full reason behind the behavior, right?

Sheesh.

Neither of these posts followed my post as it was intended. Unfortunately, I'm just not up for another conversation about gender issues, I've been down this road too many times before and I know where it leads (to a lot of time spent for no reason).

 

[Playball40]

I stopped asking my wife how it was for her after she said "How was what ?".

Cheeky mare

it's so fucking bizarre to me being part of a culture where that sort of mentality is considered even remotely acceptable...

i'm not saying that to call you out tswizzle, it's a very common generalization to make about the relationship between husbands and wives, but it just boggles my mind.

Got to defend Twizzle here. Sometimes little jokes between spouses about sex are actually GOOD for the relationship. I've been married long enough to know there are going to be AWESOME encounters with my husband, but there are also going to be meh encounters and occasionally not worth the effort times (by both of us)....Here's the thing, my husband and I know and trust each other well enough to not be offended by it and even laugh when either of us make a joke about it. Come on........haven't you ever accidentally tooted in an inopportune moment...? OMG, it's funny!!

 

[Jon Osterman]

well, i'd argue that to be "good at sex" on a physical level a woman's partner needs to be specifically skilled and learned in how to be good at it (or lucky enough to have a knack for it without any notable instruction), and to be "good at sex" for a man on a physical level you need a hole that's preferably moist into which we can thrust repeatedly.

there are obviously going to be extreme outliers to this, but as a general rule i think that most men can only be good at sex if they try, whereas most women can only be bad at sex if they try.

That's utter bullshit, and very offensive.

 

[Rhea]

That goes both ways though. I have never really enjoyed sex, but you can't really say that after the act, can you? If they ask how it was for you, you need to say it was great. Anything else is just rude.

Then it sounds like you have to ask something other than, “was that good?”. Maybe someone could write a magazine article about it and men would be eager to read.

Like maybe, “what do you like?” And then if the answer isn’t the thing you did last week, then you’ve learned something.

 

[Rhea]

it's the ultimate joke IMO, the dichotomy between men and women when it comes to sex (this is obviously a broad generalization and there are of course exceptions on both sides but as a general rule i think these statements are reasonably true):
it's a struggle for men to get sex, but 100% of the time it's the most amazing thing that ever happened to you.
women can get sex at the drop of a hat, but it's a total crap shoot (with the odds against you) that it will be any good, worth your time, or actually satisfying.

Lotta truth to that in first encounters. Luckily (I think) the odds improve in long-term healthy relationships.

 

[Rhea]

i'm not saying "ha ha, men are so bad at sex" isn't common both in actual reality and in terms of pop-culture quips, i'm just saying that both the fact that so many men are terrible at sex and the fact it's been just sort of accepted as a thing like "shrug... what're you gonna do?" are both really fucked up and weird to me and hard for me to figure out why people find that an acceptable way of being.

i wasn't in any way directing my previous post or this post at you specifically, merely that you expressed an idea that i am seemingly alone in finding baffling, and i commented on it partially because it made me think of it, and maybe partially to see if anyone agrees with me or if i'm the only nutcase out there who thinks that way.

You are not alone - that’s the basis of the OP and the article that spawned it.

 

[TSwizzle]

Sometimes little jokes between spouses about sex are actually GOOD for the relationship. I've been married long enough to know there are going to be AWESOME encounters with my husband, but there are also going to be meh encounters and occasionally not worth the effort times (by both of us)....Here's the thing, my husband and I know and trust each other well enough to not be offended by it and even laugh when either of us make a joke about it. Come on........haven't you ever accidentally tooted in an inopportune moment...? OMG, it's funny!!

Indeed. I've been married a long time and there is a fair bit of banter back and forth about it. I'll say to my wife, "are you up for it tonight" and she will reply "what, on a school night ?" other things like "pull my nightie down when your done" and so it goes on.

But on a slightly more serious note, you do hear some "right on" comedy that like to disparage married couples. I've hear the "how do you get your girlfriend to stop giving blowjobs ? Marry them" badoom tish. Meaningless quips based on nothing at all really.

I do like Seinfled when that is on the topic of sex. Elaine having a struggle as to whether her boyfriend is "sponge worthy". And her boyfriend that doesn't do "everything" between the sheets. Funny stuff. But I'm a Seinfeld fan, other people may not find it funny at all.

 

[prideandfall]

Got to defend Twizzle here.

defend them against what? from whom?

 

[ruby sparks]

Sometimes little jokes between spouses about sex are actually GOOD for the relationship. I've been married long enough to know there are going to be AWESOME encounters with my husband, but there are also going to be meh encounters and occasionally not worth the effort times (by both of us)....Here's the thing, my husband and I know and trust each other well enough to not be offended by it and even laugh when either of us make a joke about it. Come on........haven't you ever accidentally tooted in an inopportune moment...? OMG, it's funny!!

Indeed. I've been married a long time and there is a fair bit of banter back and forth about it. I'll say to my wife, "are you up for it tonight" and she will reply "what, on a school night ?" other things like "pull my nightie down when your done" and so it goes on.

But on a slightly more serious note, you do hear some "right on" comedy that like to disparage married couples. I've hear the "how do you get your girlfriend to stop giving blowjobs ? Marry them" badoom tish. Meaningless quips based on nothing at all really.

I do like Seinfled when that is on the topic of sex. Elaine having a struggle as to whether her boyfriend is "sponge worthy". And her boyfriend that doesn't do "everything" between the sheets. Funny stuff. But I'm a Seinfeld fan, other people may not find it funny at all.

I read somewhere that certain types of food can significantly reduce a woman's sexual appetite.

One of them, apparently, is wedding cake.

Boom boom.

 

[Emily Lake]

Neither of these posts followed my post as it was intended. Unfortunately, I'm just not up for another conversation about gender issues, I've been down this road too many times before and I know where it leads (to a lot of time spent for no reason).

Hmm. Are you aware that you have no obligation to participate in discussions of gender issues? You're welcome to simply not take part at all.

 

[rousseau]

Sometimes little jokes between spouses about sex are actually GOOD for the relationship. I've been married long enough to know there are going to be AWESOME encounters with my husband, but there are also going to be meh encounters and occasionally not worth the effort times (by both of us)....Here's the thing, my husband and I know and trust each other well enough to not be offended by it and even laugh when either of us make a joke about it. Come on........haven't you ever accidentally tooted in an inopportune moment...? OMG, it's funny!!

Indeed. I've been married a long time and there is a fair bit of banter back and forth about it. I'll say to my wife, "are you up for it tonight" and she will reply "what, on a school night ?" other things like "pull my nightie down when your done" and so it goes on.

But on a slightly more serious note, you do hear some "right on" comedy that like to disparage married couples. I've hear the "how do you get your girlfriend to stop giving blowjobs ? Marry them" badoom tish. Meaningless quips based on nothing at all really.

I do like Seinfled when that is on the topic of sex. Elaine having a struggle as to whether her boyfriend is "sponge worthy". And her boyfriend that doesn't do "everything" between the sheets. Funny stuff. But I'm a Seinfeld fan, other people may not find it funny at all.

I read somewhere that certain types of food can significantly reduce a woman's sexual appetite.

One of them, apparently, is wedding cake.

Boom boom.

I've been with my partner for 5 years and we're not married yet. Can assure you it's not wedding cake.