A more honest article on the college rape mess

[AthenaAwakened]

 

[Derec]

Horribly one sided report. Ignores the danger of false accusations and watering down of definition of "sexual assault" to pretty much mean "any sex a female student regrets the next day (or year)"

 

[Bronzeage]

[vio]

Horribly one sided report. Ignores the danger of false accusations and watering down of definition of "sexual assault" to pretty much mean "any sex a female student regrets the next day (or year)"

Okay, here is your chance to make things even. The video talked about personal behavior which would reduce sexual assault. One gave advice to men, and the other to women. I'm sure we could all tell which was which. That was their purpose.

Since you think they didn't completely cover the subject, why don't you give us a short lecture on personal behavior which would help a man avoid false accusations of sexual assault. While you are working on that, I'll see if I can find a woman to give advice to other women on how to avoid making false accusations of sexual assault.

 

[RavenSky]

If the parties to a BDSM have a genuinely consensual relationship, all of your "what-ifs" will have been addressed; there will be no "well she said 'no' but I didn't think she meant it". Not every BSDM relationship requires a safe-word either. My 2nd ex and I played at BDSM (his choice, and I was top) & we didn't need a safe-word because that safe-word was "no". We never did anything that he didn't clearly, fully, soberly and verbally consent to (ask for). A true BDSM relationship includes a complete discussion about the wants and expectations of both parties, but especially the wants and expectations of "the bottom" as that is the person placed in the most vulnerable position. And the discussion is ongoing, because moods/wants change. Especially in a BDSM relationship, if there is not that crystal clear, unambiguous, consent - it is rape. The "top" doesn't get to say "well she said 'no' but I thought she meant yes" anymore than the frat boy gets to say that.

They certainly should have been addressed. That doesn't mean they were. People can be stupid about such things.

If they weren't addressed and she said "no" (which the husband fully admits she did) then he raped her. It really is that simple in this case.

 

[Metaphor]

Since you think they didn't completely cover the subject, why don't you give us a short lecture on personal behavior which would help a man avoid false accusations of sexual assault. While you are working on that, I'll see if I can find a woman to give advice to other women on how to avoid making false accusations of sexual assault.

This is not a video, but I know that when I went to University, it was the practice for staff to leave their office doors open whenever they were seeing a student in their office -- making a false charge from a student about sexual advances far less likely.

I would recommend it to any faculty member interested in reducing their chances of being falsely accused of improper sexual conduct.

 

[Bronzeage]

Since you think they didn't completely cover the subject, why don't you give us a short lecture on personal behavior which would help a man avoid false accusations of sexual assault. While you are working on that, I'll see if I can find a woman to give advice to other women on how to avoid making false accusations of sexual assault.

This is not a video, but I know that when I went to University, it was the practice for staff to leave their office doors open whenever they were seeing a student in their office -- making a false charge from a student about sexual advances far less likely.

I would recommend it to any faculty member interested in reducing their chances of being falsely accused of improper sexual conduct.

This is common sense practice on every campus I know of.

The problem with our current campus rape crisis is two people can do the exact same thing and one is a rapist and the other is not. This vagueness is the problem. To compound this, our rapist candidate is engaging in risky behavior, at a time when his own judgment is just as likely to be impaired as his potential partner/victim. The people who seem most excited about the dangers of false rape accusations are unwilling to consider how much the men in question contribute to their own problem.

It's a fallback to the old standard which allowed a man as much liberty as a woman allowed him. If she is drunk, so much the better. No one ever preached to boys or men about "saving themselves" or "losing respect", if they had sex. The murky water of drunk hookups/impaired sex is the natural environment of this problem. Any solution which depends upon women to not claim they've been raped after having impaired sex, solves nothing. If a man men is not ready to take responsibility for his behavior, he will always expose himself to this hazard.

 

[Toni]

Since you think they didn't completely cover the subject, why don't you give us a short lecture on personal behavior which would help a man avoid false accusations of sexual assault. While you are working on that, I'll see if I can find a woman to give advice to other women on how to avoid making false accusations of sexual assault.

This is not a video, but I know that when I went to University, it was the practice for staff to leave their office doors open whenever they were seeing a student in their office -- making a false charge from a student about sexual advances far less likely.

I would recommend it to any faculty member interested in reducing their chances of being falsely accused of improper sexual conduct.

This is common sense practice on every campus I know of.

The problem with our current campus rape crisis is two people can do the exact same thing and one is a rapist and the other is not. This vagueness is the problem. To compound this, our rapist candidate is engaging in risky behavior, at a time when his own judgment is just as likely to be impaired as his potential partner/victim. The people who seem most excited about the dangers of false rape accusations are unwilling to consider how much the men in question contribute to their own problem.

It's a fallback to the old standard which allowed a man as much liberty as a woman allowed him. If she is drunk, so much the better. No one ever preached to boys or men about "saving themselves" or "losing respect", if they had sex. The murky water of drunk hookups/impaired sex is the natural environment of this problem. Any solution which depends upon women to not claim they've been raped after having impaired sex, solves nothing. If a man men is not ready to take responsibility for his behavior, he will always expose himself to this hazard.

The thing is, there are plenty of guys who deliberately target women, plying their target with much stronger drinks or drinks spiked with a little something extra--which takes some planning, btw. Or scout for someone who has been over-served to the point of not being able to resist. I've seen it happen; I've had it tried on me. Even though I rarely went to bars or large parties. I figured out real quick to always keep my drink in my hand, and to keep something in my cup at all times because someone was ALWAYS trying to fill it up more. When I wasn't quite that easy a pick, they moved to someone else. I also learned the rule to never leave a friend-or any woman--alone at a party. Never let her walk anywhere by herself, without another woman or more. Never.

No one is talking about two college kids who get a bit too drunk and wind up in bed, one or both full of regrets the next morning. I've never seen that charged, ever. And only in news accounts in distant places have I seen any case of a drunk rape victim's attackers convicted. In my town (not a very big place and EVERYTHING is in the local papers), if the victim has been drinking, charges are invariably dismissed. In one memorable case (because I knew the kid charged), charges were dismissed although he admitted dosing the girl's drink with roofies as well as plying her with some extra special pot. I wish I were making that up. Not in my town but in my county, a judge gave a 24 year old probation when he was caught in a hotel room with a twelve year old. Because the rapist had had a hard life. What kind of life puts a 12 year old in a hotel room with someone twice her age? The exceptions to the men getting off if the girl was drinking are if the men are not white and if the girl is. If the girl isn't white, it has to be an actual gang bang and she'd better be under 16. Then there might be a conviction. More likely if he is black than Asian.

There is a double standard and that double standard is 'boys will be boys' and if a girl isn't a virgin, she'd damn well better be sober. Preferably both. Being white doesn't hurt, either.

 

[Bronzeage]

Since you think they didn't completely cover the subject, why don't you give us a short lecture on personal behavior which would help a man avoid false accusations of sexual assault. While you are working on that, I'll see if I can find a woman to give advice to other women on how to avoid making false accusations of sexual assault.

This is not a video, but I know that when I went to University, it was the practice for staff to leave their office doors open whenever they were seeing a student in their office -- making a false charge from a student about sexual advances far less likely.

I would recommend it to any faculty member interested in reducing their chances of being falsely accused of improper sexual conduct.

This is common sense practice on every campus I know of.

The problem with our current campus rape crisis is two people can do the exact same thing and one is a rapist and the other is not. This vagueness is the problem. To compound this, our rapist candidate is engaging in risky behavior, at a time when his own judgment is just as likely to be impaired as his potential partner/victim. The people who seem most excited about the dangers of false rape accusations are unwilling to consider how much the men in question contribute to their own problem.

It's a fallback to the old standard which allowed a man as much liberty as a woman allowed him. If she is drunk, so much the better. No one ever preached to boys or men about "saving themselves" or "losing respect", if they had sex. The murky water of drunk hookups/impaired sex is the natural environment of this problem. Any solution which depends upon women to not claim they've been raped after having impaired sex, solves nothing. If a man men is not ready to take responsibility for his behavior, he will always expose himself to this hazard.

The thing is, there are plenty of guys who deliberately target women, plying their target with much stronger drinks or drinks spiked with a little something extra--which takes some planning, btw. Or scout for someone who has been over-served to the point of not being able to resist. I've seen it happen; I've had it tried on me.

No one is talking about two college kids who get a bit too drunk and wind up in bed, one or both full of regrets the next morning. I've never seen that charged, ever. And only in news accounts in distant places have I seen any case of a drunk rape victim's attackers convicted. In my town (not a very big place and EVERYTHING is in the local papers), if the victim has been drinking, charges are invariably dismissed. In one memorable case (because I knew the kid charged), charges were dismissed although he admitted dosing the girl's drink with roofies as well as plying her with some extra special pot. I wish I were making that up. Not in my town but in my county, a judge gave a 24 year old probation when he was caught in a hotel room with a twelve year old. Because the rapist had had a hard life. What kind of life puts a 12 year old in a hotel room with someone twice her age? The exceptions to the men getting off if the girl was drinking are if the men are not white and if the girl is. If the girl isn't white, it has to be an actual gang bang and she'd better be under 16. Then there might be a conviction. More likely if he is black than Asian.

There is a double standard and that double standard is 'boys will be boys' and if a girl isn't a virgin, she'd damn well better be sober. Preferably both. Being white doesn't hurt, either.

That is not murky. There is no ambiguity to stalking and preying on a person. A predator knows what he is doing is illegal in the eyes of the law and most people. There is no simple common sense advice which will change this person's behavior. That is not the person my post addressed.

I am the one talking about two college kids who get a bit too drunk and wind up in bed, one or both full of regrets the next morning, but it seems I am the only one.

 

[Toni]

Since you think they didn't completely cover the subject, why don't you give us a short lecture on personal behavior which would help a man avoid false accusations of sexual assault. While you are working on that, I'll see if I can find a woman to give advice to other women on how to avoid making false accusations of sexual assault.

This is not a video, but I know that when I went to University, it was the practice for staff to leave their office doors open whenever they were seeing a student in their office -- making a false charge from a student about sexual advances far less likely.

I would recommend it to any faculty member interested in reducing their chances of being falsely accused of improper sexual conduct.

This is common sense practice on every campus I know of.

The problem with our current campus rape crisis is two people can do the exact same thing and one is a rapist and the other is not. This vagueness is the problem. To compound this, our rapist candidate is engaging in risky behavior, at a time when his own judgment is just as likely to be impaired as his potential partner/victim. The people who seem most excited about the dangers of false rape accusations are unwilling to consider how much the men in question contribute to their own problem.

It's a fallback to the old standard which allowed a man as much liberty as a woman allowed him. If she is drunk, so much the better. No one ever preached to boys or men about "saving themselves" or "losing respect", if they had sex. The murky water of drunk hookups/impaired sex is the natural environment of this problem. Any solution which depends upon women to not claim they've been raped after having impaired sex, solves nothing. If a man men is not ready to take responsibility for his behavior, he will always expose himself to this hazard.

The thing is, there are plenty of guys who deliberately target women, plying their target with much stronger drinks or drinks spiked with a little something extra--which takes some planning, btw. Or scout for someone who has been over-served to the point of not being able to resist. I've seen it happen; I've had it tried on me.

No one is talking about two college kids who get a bit too drunk and wind up in bed, one or both full of regrets the next morning. I've never seen that charged, ever. And only in news accounts in distant places have I seen any case of a drunk rape victim's attackers convicted. In my town (not a very big place and EVERYTHING is in the local papers), if the victim has been drinking, charges are invariably dismissed. In one memorable case (because I knew the kid charged), charges were dismissed although he admitted dosing the girl's drink with roofies as well as plying her with some extra special pot. I wish I were making that up. Not in my town but in my county, a judge gave a 24 year old probation when he was caught in a hotel room with a twelve year old. Because the rapist had had a hard life. What kind of life puts a 12 year old in a hotel room with someone twice her age? The exceptions to the men getting off if the girl was drinking are if the men are not white and if the girl is. If the girl isn't white, it has to be an actual gang bang and she'd better be under 16. Then there might be a conviction. More likely if he is black than Asian.

There is a double standard and that double standard is 'boys will be boys' and if a girl isn't a virgin, she'd damn well better be sober. Preferably both. Being white doesn't hurt, either.

That is not murky. There is no ambiguity to stalking and preying on a person. A predator knows what he is doing is illegal in the eyes of the law and most people. There is no simple common sense advice which will change this person's behavior. That is not the person my post addressed.

I am the one talking about two college kids who get a bit too drunk and wind up in bed, one or both full of regrets the next morning, but it seems I am the only one.

There are plenty of people who are deliberately conflating predatory rapists with two kids who have too much to drink and wake up with regrets. I don't think you are doing that but some are.

 

[Bronzeage]

Since you think they didn't completely cover the subject, why don't you give us a short lecture on personal behavior which would help a man avoid false accusations of sexual assault. While you are working on that, I'll see if I can find a woman to give advice to other women on how to avoid making false accusations of sexual assault.

This is not a video, but I know that when I went to University, it was the practice for staff to leave their office doors open whenever they were seeing a student in their office -- making a false charge from a student about sexual advances far less likely.

I would recommend it to any faculty member interested in reducing their chances of being falsely accused of improper sexual conduct.

This is common sense practice on every campus I know of.

The problem with our current campus rape crisis is two people can do the exact same thing and one is a rapist and the other is not. This vagueness is the problem. To compound this, our rapist candidate is engaging in risky behavior, at a time when his own judgment is just as likely to be impaired as his potential partner/victim. The people who seem most excited about the dangers of false rape accusations are unwilling to consider how much the men in question contribute to their own problem.

It's a fallback to the old standard which allowed a man as much liberty as a woman allowed him. If she is drunk, so much the better. No one ever preached to boys or men about "saving themselves" or "losing respect", if they had sex. The murky water of drunk hookups/impaired sex is the natural environment of this problem. Any solution which depends upon women to not claim they've been raped after having impaired sex, solves nothing. If a man men is not ready to take responsibility for his behavior, he will always expose himself to this hazard.

The thing is, there are plenty of guys who deliberately target women, plying their target with much stronger drinks or drinks spiked with a little something extra--which takes some planning, btw. Or scout for someone who has been over-served to the point of not being able to resist. I've seen it happen; I've had it tried on me.

No one is talking about two college kids who get a bit too drunk and wind up in bed, one or both full of regrets the next morning. I've never seen that charged, ever. And only in news accounts in distant places have I seen any case of a drunk rape victim's attackers convicted. In my town (not a very big place and EVERYTHING is in the local papers), if the victim has been drinking, charges are invariably dismissed. In one memorable case (because I knew the kid charged), charges were dismissed although he admitted dosing the girl's drink with roofies as well as plying her with some extra special pot. I wish I were making that up. Not in my town but in my county, a judge gave a 24 year old probation when he was caught in a hotel room with a twelve year old. Because the rapist had had a hard life. What kind of life puts a 12 year old in a hotel room with someone twice her age? The exceptions to the men getting off if the girl was drinking are if the men are not white and if the girl is. If the girl isn't white, it has to be an actual gang bang and she'd better be under 16. Then there might be a conviction. More likely if he is black than Asian.

There is a double standard and that double standard is 'boys will be boys' and if a girl isn't a virgin, she'd damn well better be sober. Preferably both. Being white doesn't hurt, either.

That is not murky. There is no ambiguity to stalking and preying on a person. A predator knows what he is doing is illegal in the eyes of the law and most people. There is no simple common sense advice which will change this person's behavior. That is not the person my post addressed.

I am the one talking about two college kids who get a bit too drunk and wind up in bed, one or both full of regrets the next morning, but it seems I am the only one.

There are plenty of people who are deliberately conflating predatory rapists with two kids who have too much to drink and wake up with regrets. I don't think you are doing that but some are.

As long as the "two drunk kids" scenario is common, the predators have plenty of cover. Change that behavior and the predators have no where to hide.

 

[RavenSky]

There are plenty of people who are deliberately conflating predatory rapists with two kids who have too much to drink and wake up with regrets. I don't think you are doing that but some are.

As long as the "two drunk kids" scenario is common, the predators have plenty of cover. Change that behavior and the predators have no where to hide.

exactly

 

[Toni]

There are plenty of people who are deliberately conflating predatory rapists with two kids who have too much to drink and wake up with regrets. I don't think you are doing that but some are.

As long as the "two drunk kids" scenario is common, the predators have plenty of cover. Change that behavior and the predators have no where to hide.

I wish.

It seems to me that throughout history, the rape of women has always been seen as something that is the fault of the woman. And the rape of men and of children is largely ignored because no one wants to admit that it happens.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

No one is talking about two college kids who get a bit too drunk and wind up in bed, one or both full of regrets the next morning. I've never seen that charged, ever. And only in news accounts in distant places have I seen any case of a drunk rape victim's attackers convicted.

Except many of these "rape" complaints appear to be two drunk college kids, one of which regrets it later.

Thus don't say nobody is talking about such cases.

 

[Bronzeage]

No one is talking about two college kids who get a bit too drunk and wind up in bed, one or both full of regrets the next morning. I've never seen that charged, ever. And only in news accounts in distant places have I seen any case of a drunk rape victim's attackers convicted.

Except many of these "rape" complaints appear to be two drunk college kids, one of which regrets it later.

Thus don't say nobody is talking about such cases.

I'll ask you the same question I've posed to others. How could a young college man protect himself from accusations of rape, when in the light of day, it is revealed he was impaired and had sex with a woman who was unable to give full consent?

 

[J842P]

No one is talking about two college kids who get a bit too drunk and wind up in bed, one or both full of regrets the next morning. I've never seen that charged, ever. And only in news accounts in distant places have I seen any case of a drunk rape victim's attackers convicted.

Except many of these "rape" complaints appear to be two drunk college kids, one of which regrets it later.

Thus don't say nobody is talking about such cases.

I'll ask you the same question I've posed to others. How could a young college man protect himself from accusations of rape, when in the light of day, it is revealed he was impaired and had sex with a woman who was unable to give full consent?

The surest way to protect oneself from false accusations of rape is to refrain from sexual activity entirely. To be even more sure, one should avoid as much social contact as possible.

 

[Bronzeage]

No one is talking about two college kids who get a bit too drunk and wind up in bed, one or both full of regrets the next morning. I've never seen that charged, ever. And only in news accounts in distant places have I seen any case of a drunk rape victim's attackers convicted.

Except many of these "rape" complaints appear to be two drunk college kids, one of which regrets it later.

Thus don't say nobody is talking about such cases.

I'll ask you the same question I've posed to others. How could a young college man protect himself from accusations of rape, when in the light of day, it is revealed he was impaired and had sex with a woman who was unable to give full consent?

The surest way to protect oneself from false accusations of rape is to refrain from sexual activity entirely. To be even more sure, one should avoid as much social contact as possible.

That's one way, but I made it through adolescence and young manhood, with plenty of sex and was never accused of rape. Do I have some kind of secret, or was I just lucky?

 

[J842P]

No one is talking about two college kids who get a bit too drunk and wind up in bed, one or both full of regrets the next morning. I've never seen that charged, ever. And only in news accounts in distant places have I seen any case of a drunk rape victim's attackers convicted.

Except many of these "rape" complaints appear to be two drunk college kids, one of which regrets it later.

Thus don't say nobody is talking about such cases.

I'll ask you the same question I've posed to others. How could a young college man protect himself from accusations of rape, when in the light of day, it is revealed he was impaired and had sex with a woman who was unable to give full consent?

The surest way to protect oneself from false accusations of rape is to refrain from sexual activity entirely. To be even more sure, one should avoid as much social contact as possible.

That's one way, but I made it through adolescence and young manhood, with plenty of sex and was never accused of rape. Do I have some kind of secret, or was I just lucky?

Being accused of rape, falsely or otherwise, is a relatively uncommon occurrence, a few high profile cases notwithstanding. I suppose in a sense you were "just lucky," but only in a trivial sense.

 

[Bronzeage]

That's one way, but I made it through adolescence and young manhood, with plenty of sex and was never accused of rape. Do I have some kind of secret, or was I just lucky?

Being accused of rape, falsely or otherwise, is a relatively uncommon occurrence, a few high profile cases notwithstanding. I suppose in a sense you were "just lucky," but only in a trivial sense.

This is one of those cases where one makes their luck. False rape accusations are very rare and the people who worry most about it, generally follow your advice on how to avoid it. Why they continue to sound the alarm is a mystery, but I don't think it's because they just love people.

This is one of the thorniest problems with the issue. It is a real problem wherever there are a lot of young people living in close quarters and it needs to be addressed, but the actions of a small faction of misogynists make it difficult.

 

[Toni]

No one is talking about two college kids who get a bit too drunk and wind up in bed, one or both full of regrets the next morning. I've never seen that charged, ever. And only in news accounts in distant places have I seen any case of a drunk rape victim's attackers convicted.

Except many of these "rape" complaints appear to be two drunk college kids, one of which regrets it later.

Thus don't say nobody is talking about such cases.

Plenty are conflating a guy who's had a few drinks and then targets some girl who is falling down drunk or who ensures the girl gets falling down drunk with a couple of drunk college kids who wake up with a big 'oops.' Plenty insist that the first situation is really the second situation, because we all know that women don't know what they want or can't admit it.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Except many of these "rape" complaints appear to be two drunk college kids, one of which regrets it later.

Thus don't say nobody is talking about such cases.

I'll ask you the same question I've posed to others. How could a young college man protect himself from accusations of rape, when in the light of day, it is revealed he was impaired and had sex with a woman who was unable to give full consent?

If she's drunk enough to go home with him I don't see how she's too drunk to consent.