A question for theists

[Tom Sawyer]

Not when the person he's assaulting is invincible. Then it does nothing.

Since when are humans "invincible"? Satan doesn't attack God directly, in the mythos, not even in the End Times. He attacks God's loved ones. It is more a "kidnap, rape, and torture Lois Lane" strategy.

Yes, this goes back to the whole "reading the entire sentence" thing, which you didn't do again. Nobody is discussing beating "people" or "humans", so you're not responding to my posts when you talk about that. I'm discussing beating a single individual and that individual is Superman and that is the plot you're using to overcome Superman. When that's your plot, you're not a supervillain, you're just a moron.

Satan did attack God directly. He started a revolution in Heaven to take over the place with a third of the angels on his side and that's the dumb-assed decision I'm referring to. That's the equivalent of attacking the Fortress of Solitude with a stick and you don't need to worry about the schemes of somebody who comes up with a scheme like that.

 

[Politesse]

You're asking why anyone would be afraid of Satan.

I really don't know why people worry so much about Satan.

This is like asking why Lois Lane might be afraid of Lex Luthor. While he is actively torturing her with impunity. No one is claiming that God is afraid of Satan, he has nothing to fear. But Satan, despite his stupidity, is more than capable of hurting God's pawns. If you are a pawn, it is reasonable to be afraid. Just because he is not smart - and one might ask in any case whether on occasion it is reasonable to take a stand against seemingly impossible odds even though you think the outcome will be against you - does not make him not dangerous.

 

[jab]

You're asking why anyone would be afraid of Satan.

I really don't know why people worry so much about Satan.

This is like asking why Lois Lane might be afraid of Lex Luthor. While he is actively torturing her with impunity. No one is claiming that God is afraid of Satan, he has nothing to fear. But Satan, despite his stupidity, is more than capable of hurting God's pawns. If you are a pawn, it is reasonable to be afraid. Just because he is not smart - and one might ask in any case whether on occasion it is reasonable to take a stand against seemingly impossible odds even though you think the outcome will be against you - does not make him not dangerous.

The analogy of 2 fictional situations, while amusing, is not very exact. Superman is not omniscient, or omnipotent, or psychic. So he doesn't always know what Lex Luther will do, what he is thinking of doing, or even where he is. Nor could he by a mere act of will nullify Lex Luther's past, present and future existence. All of God could do in relation to Satan.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

You're asking why anyone would be afraid of Satan.

I really don't know why people worry so much about Satan.

This is like asking why Lois Lane might be afraid of Lex Luthor. While he is actively torturing her with impunity. No one is claiming that God is afraid of Satan, he has nothing to fear. But Satan, despite his stupidity, is more than capable of hurting God's pawns. If you are a pawn, it is reasonable to be afraid. Just because he is not smart - and one might ask in any case whether on occasion it is reasonable to take a stand against seemingly impossible odds even though you think the outcome will be against you - does not make him not dangerous.

But the worry is that Satan will trick you and outwit you, not that he'll run up and punch you really hard. This requires a level of intelligence on his part which he has not displayed. Also, he wasn't taking a noble stand against seemingly impossible odds, he was a villain who's evil plan was to pick an unwinnable fight. The boy dumb.

 

[Politesse]

You're asking why anyone would be afraid of Satan.

I really don't know why people worry so much about Satan.

This is like asking why Lois Lane might be afraid of Lex Luthor. While he is actively torturing her with impunity. No one is claiming that God is afraid of Satan, he has nothing to fear. But Satan, despite his stupidity, is more than capable of hurting God's pawns. If you are a pawn, it is reasonable to be afraid. Just because he is not smart - and one might ask in any case whether on occasion it is reasonable to take a stand against seemingly impossible odds even though you think the outcome will be against you - does not make him not dangerous.

But the worry is that Satan will trick you and outwit you, not that he'll run up and punch you really hard. This requires a level of intelligence on his part which he has not displayed. Also, he wasn't taking a noble stand against seemingly impossible odds, he was a villain who's evil plan was to pick an unwinnable fight. The boy dumb.

I'm not sure what source you're going from here. The Bible doesn't say anything about Satan's motivations, so most people derive their ideas somewhat from Dante, Milton, or both. And in both treatments, Satan is a sort of anti-hero, a malfunctioning Godling who desires (and ultimately gets) the destruction of God's creations as a form of rebellion against God's authority. He isn't trying to actually destroy God, just achieve independence from his reign. "Better to reign in Hell than serve in Heaven", as Milton puts it. Something which seems like a severe moral fault from a medieval perspective, of course, sedition against one's sovereign having been among the strongest of social taboos at the time. But something that people did sometimes, anyway, regardless of the "stupidity" you would ascribe to them for it. And you live in a country that did this semi-permanently; attached to the sovereign in name perhaps, but not functionally in most respects and certainly routinely committing acts of political disobedience that would have deeply offended Dante.

And the Apocalypse of John/"Revelation" predicts that Satan will ultimately achieve the goal of independence from God's reign, along with all of his followers. He also gets tossed into a lake of fire, so it isn't all roses, but people do make physical sacrifices for ideological principles sometimes, and I do not agree that everyone who does this is stupid.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Well then, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree about what an irrelevant moron Satan is.

 

[Jobar]

[derail] I just recently heard this bit from Alan Watts concerning Satan.

[YOUTUBE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAfHFvSl3sU[/YOUTUBE]

"In the court of Heaven, Satan is the district attorney."

Seems a more sensible view to me, instead of the more common one where he'd rather reign in Hell than serve in Heaven.
[/derail]