A Strong Rebuke To Those Calling For Northam To Resign

[thebeave]

The early-mid 1980's was a much different time than today. One of the bestseller books of that era was Truly Tasteless Jokes:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truly_Tasteless_Jokes

Most everyone seemed to have a copy, and the jokes were repeated, out loud, at parties, family gatherings, etc.

Also popular, was sexist and racist jokes being passed around the company office. Usually on a photocopied page that had been photocopied about a hundred times. You usually passed it around on the downlow, but I can't imagine anyone even having something like that in their possession in an office today. Instant trip to HR and probably a firing, I would think. I remember someone giving me one about a job application for mexicans (full of stereotypes). One of my good friends at work at the time, Raul, was mexican. He wanted to see what I was reading and smirking about, and he grabbed it from me. I was a bit horrified, but as he read it, he couldn't stop laughing. And I mean laughing hard. Saying things like, "My cousin is just like this!" or "This sounds like my sister!". It actually got a little uncomfortable among us white folks in the room, with him getting so hysterical.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The problem with the "Judge him by his actions now" argument, is that the category includes his reaction to the yearbook photo being exposed. And his reaction leaves no doubt in my mind that he needs to step aside. If he had apologized, and then stood up for his record in government, the way Robert Byrd did in the 2000s, he might have been able to get through it. Instead, he took his apology back, said that there was some other incident where he used blackface to imitate Michael Jackson (all you need is a red jacket and one glove to do this), and then gave a pathetic press conference where he nearly moonwalked. Simply put, when he says that he wasn't in the infamous photo, I don't believe him. And even if I did, that makes it even weirder, given that the other photos on his yearbook page are clearly intended to make him look cool.

(In truth, he should have put all of this out on his own, before it was used against him. But it's far too late for that).

Apologize for what? Last I read he checked the photo in question and it's not him.

 

[laughing dog]

Let's be clear. There is not any evidence Northam was racist at the time, or his photo was the result of racial animus. His conduct was certainly racial insensitivity and he did not exercise the best judgment in his actions.

Indeed. It's amazing to me how much of an irrational trigger "blackface" is. Human beings love dressing up at people and things unlike themselves. That's the whole point of modern Halloween (although Halloween costumes are themselves under assault by SJWs). That's the point of comedic drag, from Monty Python to Robin Williams or Tyler Perry.
But this one thing is not only off limits forever, but tars and feathers someone for life. And of course, the condemnation works in one direction only. "Whiteface" is considered perfectly acceptable.

From  Blackface

Blackface is a form of theatrical make-up used predominantly by non-black performers to represent a caricature of a black person. The practice gained popularity during the 19th century and contributed to the spread of racial stereotypes such as the "happy-go-lucky darky on the plantation" or the "dandified coon".[1] By the middle of the century, blackface minstrel shows had become a distinctive American artform, translating formal works such as opera into popular terms for a general audience.[2] Early in the 20th century, blackface branched off from the minstrel show and became a form in its own right.[3] In the United States, blackface had largely fallen out of favor by the turn of the 21st century, and is now generally considered offensive and disrespectful,[4] though the practice continues in other countries.

The Wiki article goes into more detail about how blackface is associated with negative racial stereotyping.

In short, it takes a whole lot of ignorance or just a little bit of bigotry to shrug off the use of blackface in the 1980s.

 

[untermensche]

The problem with the "Judge him by his actions now" argument, is that the category includes his reaction to the yearbook photo being exposed. And his reaction leaves no doubt in my mind that he needs to step aside. If he had apologized, and then stood up for his record in government, the way Robert Byrd did in the 2000s, he might have been able to get through it. Instead, he took his apology back, said that there was some other incident where he used blackface to imitate Michael Jackson (all you need is a red jacket and one glove to do this), and then gave a pathetic press conference where he nearly moonwalked. Simply put, when he says that he wasn't in the infamous photo, I don't believe him. And even if I did, that makes it even weirder, given that the other photos on his yearbook page are clearly intended to make him look cool.

(In truth, he should have put all of this out on his own, before it was used against him. But it's far too late for that).

Apologize for what? Last I read he checked the photo in question and it's not him.

It is on his page. The page about him.

His interest is Pediatrics. And he can't get enough of people in blackface and KKK outfits.

He gave them this picture.

But the editors of the medical school yearbook are the people that made the decision to keep it. So they must have not been all that offended. I suspect they were pinkish and pale. What is called "white" as if it were something pleasant.

 

[southernhybrid]

It appears as if the gov did lie. The NYTimes had an article this morning about the yearbook.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/05/us/northam-yearbook.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage

NORFOLK, Va. — The inoffensive images show photographs of aspiring doctors in white lab coats tending to patients, or lounging on the beach in swimsuits, or posing with family members in their Sunday best. But as one flips through the yearbooks at Eastern Virginia Medical School, shocking images pop up, too. Ku Klux Klan attire on one page. Confederate outfits on another.

When reports emerged that Gov. Ralph Northam of Virginia had a racist photograph on his page in the 1984 yearbook, it not only sent his political career into a tailspin, it also cast a negative light on a tradition at the elite school that turned ugly.

For years, each graduating student was given half a page in the yearbook to leave behind memories. Some inserted poetry. Others left reminiscences. There were photos submitted by the graduates, some heartwarming and others jarring in their insensitivity.

In 1984 alone, besides the picture on Mr. Northam’s page of a man in blackface posing next to someone in a K.K.K. robe, there were at least two other images of blackface in other parts of the yearbook. There was also a picture of a man wearing a sombrero and a woman in Japanese attire at what seemed to be a costume party.

And it gets worse...

One photo featured a professor holding a mug that read: “We can’t get fired! Slaves have to be sold.”

And a male student grabbed a female mannequin’s breast in one picture with the caption, “I try never to divulge my true feelings while examining my patients!”

The tradition carried on with little fanfare until 2014, when Dr. Richard V. Homan, two years after becoming the medical school’s president, learned that there were photos of students wearing Confederate outfits and flags in the 2013 yearbook. Concerned that the images could offend and portray the school in a negative light, he ended the publication of yearbooks.

 

[Worldtraveller]

I've read a bit more about this, and watched the follow up and reactions by Northam.

My opinion has changed. I think he should resign.

Not because he acted like an idiot in college. But because he tried to deny it, deflect, and rationalize it now.

 

[southernhybrid]

I've read a bit more about this, and watched the follow up and reactions by Northam.

My opinion has changed. I think he should resign.

Not because he acted like an idiot in college. But because he tried to deny it, deflect, and rationalize it now.

After reading the article I linked to, I agree with you. He knew how racist the school was and he had to have known about that photo. Unless you're senile, you don't forget shit like that.

 

[laughing dog]

The problem with the "Judge him by his actions now" argument, is that the category includes his reaction to the yearbook photo being exposed. And his reaction leaves no doubt in my mind that he needs to step aside. If he had apologized, and then stood up for his record in government, the way Robert Byrd did in the 2000s, he might have been able to get through it. Instead, he took his apology back, said that there was some other incident where he used blackface to imitate Michael Jackson (all you need is a red jacket and one glove to do this), and then gave a pathetic press conference where he nearly moonwalked. Simply put, when he says that he wasn't in the infamous photo, I don't believe him. And even if I did, that makes it even weirder, given that the other photos on his yearbook page are clearly intended to make him look cool.

(In truth, he should have put all of this out on his own, before it was used against him. But it's far too late for that).

Apologize for what? Last I read he checked the photo in question and it's not him.

Wrong. Gov. Northam said he is not in the photo which is not the same as him not being in the photo. Which begs the questions of
1) Why did he first apologize for being in the photo,
2) Why is that photo included in his page of a yearbook, and
3) Why he felt he had to wear blackface to win a moonwalking contest.

IMO, Mumbles nailed it. At best, Northam botched his mea culpa. His credibility at this point is low. He is embarrassing the VA Democratic party and the Democrats in general. He cannot run for re-election. For now, any national ambitions are unrealistic. Resignation is probably the best avenue for his party and himself unless he can come up with a good reason why that picture is on his yearbook page. Given the content in the NY Times article posted by southernhybrid, that seems like a very daunting task for him.

 

[untermensche]

It appears as if the gov did lie. The NYTimes had an article this morning about the yearbook.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/05/us/northam-yearbook.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage

NORFOLK, Va. — The inoffensive images show photographs of aspiring doctors in white lab coats tending to patients, or lounging on the beach in swimsuits, or posing with family members in their Sunday best. But as one flips through the yearbooks at Eastern Virginia Medical School, shocking images pop up, too. Ku Klux Klan attire on one page. Confederate outfits on another.

When reports emerged that Gov. Ralph Northam of Virginia had a racist photograph on his page in the 1984 yearbook, it not only sent his political career into a tailspin, it also cast a negative light on a tradition at the elite school that turned ugly.

For years, each graduating student was given half a page in the yearbook to leave behind memories. Some inserted poetry. Others left reminiscences. There were photos submitted by the graduates, some heartwarming and others jarring in their insensitivity.

In 1984 alone, besides the picture on Mr. Northam’s page of a man in blackface posing next to someone in a K.K.K. robe, there were at least two other images of blackface in other parts of the yearbook. There was also a picture of a man wearing a sombrero and a woman in Japanese attire at what seemed to be a costume party.

And it gets worse...

One photo featured a professor holding a mug that read: “We can’t get fired! Slaves have to be sold.”

And a male student grabbed a female mannequin’s breast in one picture with the caption, “I try never to divulge my true feelings while examining my patients!”

The tradition carried on with little fanfare until 2014, when Dr. Richard V. Homan, two years after becoming the medical school’s president, learned that there were photos of students wearing Confederate outfits and flags in the 2013 yearbook. Concerned that the images could offend and portray the school in a negative light, he ended the publication of yearbooks.

Yes I'm sure that ended the underlying feelings. A meaningless PR move. How about just expecting better behavior from medical students?

 

[blastula]

Virginia Attorney General Mark Herring, second in line to be governor, admits he wore blackface

3rd in line is the Republican house speaker.

 

[Angry Floof]

I've read a bit more about this, and watched the follow up and reactions by Northam.

My opinion has changed. I think he should resign.

Not because he acted like an idiot in college. But because he tried to deny it, deflect, and rationalize it now.

My reasons for thinking he should resign are not about Northam personally. If anyone is sincere about wanting to end racism in our society, they have to necessarily want to end the behaviors that make a racist society possible. White students wearing black face and KKK garb is exactly that sort of behavior, along with numerous other seemingly harmless "distasteful" acts.

Want to end the systemic racism that oppresses, demonizes, brutalizes, murders, erases, and punishes blacks? Well, THIS is what it looks like! Holding people accountable for what feeds systemic racism. We will never, ever end racism if we continue giving a pass to racist behavior.

It's the same as the #metoo movement. If you've been a creep, you're very much in danger of going down hard. If you've engaged in black face, same thing. It's not about you, it's about all of us. This is what accountability looks like.

 

[southernhybrid]

Unfortunately, I don't think racism will ever end, but the current president has brought it out into the open, just when some of us thought we were making progress. But, I also worry that the Dems may have screwed themselves with this decision to require purity from all Democratic politicians.

Yes I'm sure that ended the underlying feelings. A meaningless PR move. How about just expecting better behavior from medical students?

Medical students? It's male doctors in general, not all of them but plenty of them. Let me share something that happened when I was a public health nurse in SC.

We were having a health fair and I was chaperoning a middle aged white doctor, who was examining a young, black woman. While doing the breast exam, he said to her, "You sure weren't standing in the back of the line when they handed out boobs." I was disgusted, and apologized to the patient. Women feel uncomfortable as it is when they are being examined by male physicians, but this behavior made me wonder if that young woman would ever feel like having another exam after that.

There have been numerous reports and studies concerning the sexual assault and harassment from male doctors towards both patients and female nurses. Of course, there are many who act professional, but all of my friends and I do whatever we can to avoid having to receive care from male providers, unless it's absolutely necessary. For example, orthopedic doctors are usually male.

One more thing. The Lt. Gov has been accused of sexual assault. Is he going to be driven out before there is more evidence. Finally, the Attorney General of Va., who would be next in line if the other two resign, just admitted that he dressed in black face at a party when he was in college. That was in 1980. All of this behavior is wrong, but when do we forgive people for the wrong behavior they committed decades ago? As I said in another post, a lot of white people are or were clueless when it comes to things like this.

 

[laughing dog]

At least the AG of VA issued an apology for acting like an insensitive ass instead of trying to explain away the incredibly clueless boorish behavior.

I think most people are fair minded about this kind of stuff. If you say "I screwed up when I was young, but I am better person now" and can show that, this stuff blows over.

 

[PyramidHead]

Virginia Attorney General Mark Herring, second in line to be governor, admits he wore blackface

3rd in line is the Republican house speaker.

Holy shit what is it with this cphort of Democratic blobs and blackface, it's like crack cocaine for them or something. I was listening to a podcast that made a good point about Northam's admitted use of blackface for a Michael Jackson costume in the 80's... like, do you really need to put on blackface at that point? Wouldn't people know who you were supposed to be, in 1984, if you showed up dressed as MJ, who by the way looked like this at the time:



Do you really need *blackface* to pull off a decent costume of that guy, who at best had a medium tan compared to most white people? Any excuse to get that blackface, man, it's a compulsion with these types.

 

[James Madison]

It's not just poor taste. The extremes exist because the substrate is made of non-extremes, you know, just "distasteful" stuff.

Blackface and KKK hoods are blatant, visible messages of hate no matter how much you want to downplay them. There are victims - every black person in America is harmed by this shit.

It's because tiny "distasteful" sexist behaviors are tolerated that predators find it so easy to brutalize women.

It's because tiny "distasteful" homophobic behaviors are tolerated that LGBTQ people are brutalized.

It's precisely because tiny "distasteful" things like black face and KKK costumes are tolerated that people of color are brutalized.

A highly visible stand taken by people in power to support the least powerful is a profound raising of the bar in what we will tolerate as a nation. This is one substantial way that meaningful cultural sea change begins to happen. We fucking mean it.

One powerful white man being held accountable on a front page, national level is a loud and clear statement. Northam's career is not the important part of this particular issue, and he himself should understand that.

And by the way, I am a citizen of Virginia.

It is undoubtedly unclear that "tiny distasteful sexist behaviors...distasteful homophobic behaviors...distasteful things like black face and KKK costumes" are a cause for the brutalizing of women, LGBTQ and blacks. The non-violent, non-criminal, behaviors are not a cause for the violent, criminal behaviors of "brutalizing" women, blacks, and LGBTQ.

Northam has publicly been denounced for the behavior, initially apologized publicly (his subsequent lying and vacillating are good reasons to boot him), confessed his error, and his more recent conduct suggests he is a different person. The "cultural sea change" is also attainable by Northam being "held accountable on a front page," along with others. It is because of the "cultural sea change" Northam has been held accountable publicly, derided publicly, condemned publicly, and humiliated publicly.

The message is clear. The type of behavior engaged in by Northam 35 or more years ago is not acceptable.

 

[poster]

I think costume parties are dumb, especially these kinds.

Seriously, would you vote for any of those people for office?

 

[Derec]

The early-mid 1980's was a much different time than today. One of the bestseller books of that era was Truly Tasteless Jokes:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truly_Tasteless_Jokes

Most everyone seemed to have a copy, and the jokes were repeated, out loud, at parties, family gatherings, etc.

Also popular, was sexist and racist jokes being passed around the company office. Usually on a photocopied page that had been photocopied about a hundred times. You usually passed it around on the downlow, but I can't imagine anyone even having something like that in their possession in an office today. Instant trip to HR and probably a firing, I would think. I remember someone giving me one about a job application for mexicans (full of stereotypes). One of my good friends at work at the time, Raul, was mexican. He wanted to see what I was reading and smirking about, and he grabbed it from me. I was a bit horrified, but as he read it, he couldn't stop laughing. And I mean laughing hard. Saying things like, "My cousin is just like this!" or "This sounds like my sister!". It actually got a little uncomfortable among us white folks in the room, with him getting so hysterical.

Like I said, it was a time less insufferably politically correct than our own.

P.S.: Should Elizabeth Warren resign from Senate for this?
Washington Post: Warren listed race as 'American Indian' on Texas bar registration

P.P.S.: How has this not been referenced in this thread yet?

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

The Lieutenant governor has now been accused of sexual assault.

 

[Treedbear]

Virginia Attorney General Mark Herring, second in line to be governor, admits he wore blackface

3rd in line is the Republican house speaker.

"That conduct clearly shows that, as a young man, I had a callous and inexcusable lack of awareness and insensitivity to the pain my behavior could inflict on others. It was really a minimization of both people of color, and a minimization of a horrific history I knew well even then,"

Now that's how to go about taking responsiibility. Most politicians assume simply saying "I'm sorry" automatically covers everything.

 

[blastula]

Yes, Herring did better, and hopefully not just because he had the opportunity of seeing how not to handle it.