Ah dun voted fer th' anti-immigrant guy, now ah can't hire no immigrants! It ain't fair!

[Elixir]

Lawns should be illegal in Arizona and Florida.

Ideally, monoculture lawns should be frowned upon (illegal?), period. There are plenty of plants - even indigenous ones in most areas - that will thrive under local conditions, support insect and bird life and still look ok and be soft to the touch and underfoot. Even here in the high desert (bordering on a riparian corridor, granted) we've been able to crowd out the cactus and tumbleweed near the house, and have a fairly thick covering of gamma grasses and native buffalo grass along with dandelions* and other nameless green things. It took about 20 years to strike a balance, but it's low maintenance, high diversity, and actually looks like a lawn from more than 15 feet away.

*(I'm not allowed to mow the dandelions until later in the season because a neighbor across the river has bees, and dandelions are their primary early food. I get honey outa the deal, just for not mowing!)

 

[Opoponax]

I have a very hard time believing he is paying people $17 an hour for that!

$12 an hour is still a good wage for that work.

And in Kentucky???

He's probably trying to pay more like $8, at most. Because for $12, you can still get a lot of people to do that work.

What a load of shit.

 

[jonatha]

I have a very hard time believing he is paying people $17 an hour for that!

$12 an hour is still a good wage for that work.

And in Kentucky???

He's probably trying to pay more like $8, at most. Because for $12, you can still get a lot of people to do that work.

What a load of shit.

In May 2017 the median and mean hourly wage in the Lexington-Fayette County MSA for landscaping and groundskeeping workers were $12.54 and $13.21, respectively.

https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes_30460.htm#37-0000

 

[Derec]

He's probably trying to pay more like $8, at most.

I was at a Wendy's the other day. They are hiring. The big banner says "up to $8". Damn!

 

[braces_for_impact]

In many cases, working for a landscaping company or the fast food industry is never going to get you anywhere. When I was much younger, I worked landscaping for a bit. I was also a mover, and I used to work with a roofing crew. Often, this is hard, dangerous work, and frankly, many of these employers don't give a rat's ass about you because you are easily replaceable. There's little to nothing put into safety, and many of them pay cash under the table, so you're easy to screw. But lets say you work at this hard ass job for 10 years. Where will you most likely be? If you're actually lucky, you may have gotten a small promotion or two, but you're still not making much more than when you started. After 20 years of this type of work many are spent and their bodies don't work so great anymore? Now what? How much savings do you really have after 20 years of 12 bucks an hour?

Originally posted by Derec

Yes, not everybody can do it, but I am sure there are plenty of people who could do the work who think living off government benefits is just fine with them. When in a grocery store I often see young, able-bodied people pay with food stamps. They could work at your lawn-care business instead. Although it would require moving to Bumfuck, Ga.

I have no doubt you notice this quite often. What amazes me is how many times I have heard better off white people say the same thing with regards to employment, or transportation, or any number obstacles that could just be overcome if they just weren't so lazy. I have so very often heard these same people exclaim how they themselves are above such things. They so often have an excuse and feel entitled to better, for less effort.

Of course you reason this way. You simply don't think racism exists in except very rare circumstances, and you imagine everyone running the same race. The problem is, some got a really big head start in that race, but will never admit to such, because that means that maybe, just maybe they aren't so talented and smart and thrifty as they think they are. Nope, better to ignore it all, insist it simply doesn't exist, that all is fair.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I have a very hard time believing he is paying people $17 an hour for that!

$12 an hour is still a good wage for that work.

And in Kentucky???

He's probably trying to pay more like $8, at most. Because for $12, you can still get a lot of people to do that work.

What a load of shit.

In May 2017 the median and mean hourly wage in the Lexington-Fayette County MSA for landscaping and groundskeeping workers were $12.54 and $13.21, respectively.

https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes_30460.htm#37-0000

As others have said, it isn't the easiest of jobs. Especially when working outside. But $12 certainly isn't chicken feed either. Of course, those that might want to jump at it could have issues passing the drug test.

 

[Politesse]

In Kentucky maybe. $12/hr certainly isn't anything you could keep a family alive on out here in California. And they definitely try to play the same legal/illegal immigrant exploitation game with the wages. Our local human travesties are the source of your affordable broccoli, apricots, celery, garlic, pistachios, almonds, and olives.

 

[scombrid]

*(I'm not allowed to mow the dandelions until later in the season because a neighbor across the river has bees, and dandelions are their primary early food. I get honey outa the deal, just for not mowing!)

Sorry for the derail but plants are more fun than politics.

Our entire front yard is mimosa strigillosa. Bees love it and it blooms from March/April to November/December. Wild coffee as a hedge is also very popular with bees.

http://www.birdsandblooms.com/blog/groundcovers-instead-grass/

 

[southernhybrid]

I run a small lawn care business, and have for many years. But I've never hired illegals.
The real problem is finding people who are able to do hard physical labor in extreme heat, and willing to do that for low wages. People just are not willing to pay the sort of money it would take to pay wages commensurate with the difficulty of the job. I know.

Yes, not everybody can do it, but I am sure there are plenty of people who could do the work who think living off government benefits is just fine with them. When in a grocery store I often see young, able-bodied people pay with food stamps. They could work at your lawn-care business instead. Although it would require moving to Bumfuck, Ga.

Maybe one day we will have lawn-care robots, and the only work I'd have to do is maintaining them. But I keep up with that sort of thing, and we're still a long way from that.

Roombas have been around for years. What's the problem adopting that technology to the outdoors? Even if it could only replace the big mower and you still have to do edge and shrubbery trimming by hand, it would still mean significant savings, no?

Do you not realize that many of the working poor receive SNAP benefits? Many of the young women I worked with before I retired were getting help from SNAP. One told me she was embarrassed about having to use that benefit when she went to the grocery store. I told her that since her employer only paid her 8 dollars an hour for her very difficult work, she should not be ashamed and consider SNAP as welfare for employers. If her employer paid her more, she wouldn't need SNAP to help her pay for groceries. The same for kids on CHIP or Medicaid. Most of their parents work. I know this because it's very difficult and sometimes impossible to get any "welfare" benefits if you're not disabled. Even those with dependent children are limited in what benefits they can receive. Most people want to work, but most jobs for low skilled workers pay shit.

 

[Politesse]

Yes, not everybody can do it, but I am sure there are plenty of people who could do the work who think living off government benefits is just fine with them. When in a grocery store I often see young, able-bodied people pay with food stamps. They could work at your lawn-care business instead. Although it would require moving to Bumfuck, Ga.

Roombas have been around for years. What's the problem adopting that technology to the outdoors? Even if it could only replace the big mower and you still have to do edge and shrubbery trimming by hand, it would still mean significant savings, no?

Do you not realize that many of the working poor receive SNAP benefits? Many of the young women I worked with before I retired were getting help from SNAP. One told me she was embarrassed about having to use that benefit when she went to the grocery store. I told her that since her employer only paid her 8 dollars an hour for her very difficult work, she should not be ashamed and consider SNAP as welfare for employers. If her employer paid her more, she wouldn't need SNAP to help her pay for groceries. The same for kids on CHIP or Medicaid. Most of their parents work. I know this because it's very difficult and sometimes impossible to get any "welfare" benefits if you're not disabled. Even those with dependent children are limited in what benefits they can receive. Most people want to work, but most jobs for low skilled workers pay shit.

Indeed. When I was in college, I was working three crappy jobs, and still had to borrow money to make my rent toward the end. I'm still paying the consequences; I have a reasonably good job now, but more than a third of my income goes to paying the debts I incurred to get that job. Being poor is expensive as hell. People who have never tried it have no idea how expensive it is. Screw "handouts". If someone thinks that getting $100 a year in EITC and a few dozen bucks of food stamps a month somehow erases the costs of poverty - who think that spending 110% of your earned income on rent and food, having no savings account, and getting a pittance thrown at you by Daddy gov't as though that somehow solves your problem is easy street - that's just proof that the rich aren't as smart as they freaking think they are.

And I was lucky. I'm male. I'm white in appearance. I never had kids. I never went to jail. I only had to live like that for a few years, and no one counts it against me now. I always had a checking account. I'll have retirement down the line. Most of my students can't say all of those things, and they're trying anyway. In my opinion someone who has never been without it doesn't really understand what money is, let alone how it works and who it is always working for.

 

[Toni]

Lawns should be illegal in Arizona and Florida.

Why Florida?

AZ, NM and S.CA, I understand, but not FL.

 

[scombrid]

Lawns should be illegal in Arizona and Florida.

Why Florida?

AZ, NM and S.CA, I understand, but not FL.

Long dry season on the peninsula. Closest weather station to me is Melbourne. Long term average at that station is 3 inches or less of accumulated rain per month from November through April. A good many of us live on relic sand dunes with soils that are categorized on soils maps as "excessively drained".

 

[scombrid]

When in a grocery store I often see young, able-bodied people pay with food stamps.

Most that I see paying with EBT card are women with kids and I bet they have at least part time jobs. Typically they are in the store same time as me; they are on their way home from work with the kids they just picked up from school. I don't see many people with EBT cards that I would send to work in the fields.

 

[scombrid]

Sometimes this happens in summer. This is a map of accumulated rainfall in August 2013. Actually every august from 2010 to 2017 except 2012 has been exceptionally dry in Brevard County. It's irrigate or die for a lawn in that situation.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Lawns should be illegal in Arizona and Florida.

Why Florida?

AZ, NM and S.CA, I understand, but not FL.

Long dry season on the peninsula. Closest weather station to me is Melbourne. Long term average at that station is 3 inches or less of accumulated rain per month from November through April. A good many of us live on relic sand dunes with soils that are categorized on soils maps as "excessively drained".

Yeah, if Florida got their rain over the span of a year equally, they'd be fine. "Excessively drained"... I would have said "desiccated", though that would be a bit of an exaggeration.

- - - Updated - - -

When in a grocery store I often see young, able-bodied people pay with food stamps.

Often? How often are you watching how people pay for things?

 

[bleubird]

http://www.businessinsider.com/how-much-higher-the-federal-minimum-wage-should-be-2017-12
Just sayin'.

 

[bleubird]

Lawns are a stupid waste of land and resource.

 

[braces_for_impact]

When in a grocery store I often see young, able-bodied people pay with food stamps.

Most that I see paying with EBT card are women with kids and I bet they have at least part time jobs. Typically they are in the store same time as me; they are on their way home from work with the kids they just picked up from school. I don't see many people with EBT cards that I would send to work in the fields.

Actually, you have to work in many of those cases to be eligible for SNAP. I do like how Derec assumed they didn't. What many fail to understand is that there will always be a few that try to game the system, but living off of SNAP or TANF isn't fun.

 

[Elixir]

When in a grocery store I often see young, able-bodied people pay with food stamps.

Most that I see paying with EBT card are women with kids and I bet they have at least part time jobs. Typically they are in the store same time as me; they are on their way home from work with the kids they just picked up from school. I don't see many people with EBT cards that I would send to work in the fields.

Actually, you have to work in many of those cases to be eligible for SNAP. I do like how Derec assumed they didn't. What many fail to understand is that there will always be a few that try to game the system, but living off of SNAP or TANF isn't fun.

Yeah, if they were real productive members of society, they'd have chosen to be billionaires. Then they could do some serious sucking on the government teat.

 

[James Brown]

Poverty envy.