Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

[lpetrich]

More of TNC's statement. He made a flub about Civil-War soldiers living into "this century" when he meant the 20th cy.

Which started almost 120 years ago. The civil war and slavery ended over 150 years ago. TNC is nothing but a black racist who wants to capitalize on his racism.

He isn't exactly describing how lazy and criminal honkies supposedly are, or defending black supremacy, or calling for the enslavement of the honkies.

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on Twitter: "This is what the United States is doing in the name of the American people. It’s child abuse, it’s indefensible, and we cannot wring our hands out of discomfort with the reality of the situation. We must have the courage to see this for what it is. #CloseTheCamps #AbolishICE https://t.co/rGX4IhFmsA" / Twitter noting Brad Heath on Twitter: "The Trump administration argued court Tuesday that the government is not required to give soap or toothbrushes to children apprehended at the U.S.-Mexico border and can have them sleep on concrete floors in frigid, overcrowded cells. [url]https://t.co/bgPVgIzCQR https://t.co/M9Vg56dNNA" / Twitter[/url]

The Intercept on Twitter: "“He should apologize to the children that have been separated from their parents,” said Rep. @AOC of GOP leader Kevin McCarthy, who demanded she apologize for calling ICE detention centers “concentration camps.” [url]https://t.co/zf2Zdt9diu by @nicholasballasy https://t.co/jjLXI0bjcV" / Twitter[/url] noting The Intercept on Twitter: "“He should apologize to the children that have been separated from their parents,” said Rep. @AOC of GOP leader Kevin McCarthy, who demanded she apologize for calling ICE detention centers “concentration camps.” [url]https://t.co/zf2Zdt9diu by @nicholasballasy https://t.co/jjLXI0bjcV" / Twitter[/url]
"I think he should apologize for the deliberate conflation and attack on these terms. I think he should apologize for the conditions that he's supporting on the border. He should apologize to the children that have been separated from their parents. He should apologize for his support for widespread human rights abuses. That's what he should apologize for. And until he stops supporting the absolute dehumanizing conditions on our border, I will not apologize for holding him to account for that."

 

[ZiprHead]

Just to note here that the only way to apply for asylum is to do so after crossing the border. It cannot be done in their home country or anywhere else. I think that would be a good case for changing the rules.

As far as I know, you can do it at a consulate. But that would defeat the purpose of getting into US, giving birth to anchor babies and avoiding deportation once their bogus asylum request is denied.

No, you cannot.

You may apply for asylum if you are at a port of entry or in the United States. You may apply for asylum regardless of your immigration status and within one year of your arrival to the United States.

https://www.uscis.gov/humanitarian/refugees-asylum/asylum/questions-and-answers-asylum-eligibility-and-applications

 

[Derec]

No, you cannot.

Well they should change that. Current rules are stupid. Especially the one where those who already entered illegally can still cry "asylum" if they are caught within a year of entry.

I do not think you or any defending these fake-ass "asylum seekers" believe that they are legitimate asylum seekers fleeing legitimate persecution and not just looking for jobs and government benefits. You just like mass migration and want to see more of it.

 

[ZiprHead]

No, you cannot.

Well they should change that. Current rules are stupid. Especially the one where those who already entered illegally can still cry "asylum" if they are caught within a year of entry.

I do not think you or any defending these fake-ass "asylum seekers" believe that they are legitimate asylum seekers fleeing legitimate persecution and not just looking for jobs and government benefits. You just like mass migration and want to see more of it.

I agree. I said the same thing when you first responded to the point.

 

[lpetrich]

In Defense of AOC's 'Concentration Camp' Comment - The Atlantic - "A great deal of communication is based on metaphor." - nice article on that subject.

AOC Isn't Interested in American Exceptionalism - The Atlantic - "Ocasio-Cortez’s “concentration camps” comment questions an old orthodoxy: that only other countries—and not the U.S.—are capable of evil."

Because for the first time in decades, the left is mounting a serious challenge to American exceptionalism.

American exceptionalism does not merely connote cultural and political uniqueness. It connotes moral superiority. Embedded in exceptionalist discourse is the belief that, because America has a special devotion to democracy and freedom, its sins are mostly incidental. The greatest evils humankind has witnessed, in places such as the Nazi death camps, are far removed from anything Americans would ever do. America’s adversaries commit crimes; America merely stumbles on its way to doing the right thing. This distinction means that, in mainstream political discourse, the ugliest terms—fascism, dictatorship, tyranny, terrorism, imperialism, genocide—are generally reserved for phenomena beyond America’s shores.

Then the Vietnam War, where the Left denounced the US's involvement in it as a great evil. Some leftists, like Noam Chomsky, seemed to consider it evidence for another kind of American exceptionalism, that the US is a uniquely evil nation.

In recent years, however, a resurgent left fueled by an influx of Millennial voters has launched a new challenge to exceptionalist discourse. Partly, it’s because a higher percentage of Millennials are people of color, who generally look more skeptically on America’s claims of moral innocence. Partly, it’s because the financial crisis has cast doubt on whether America’s economic model is preferable to those practiced in other nations. Younger Americans—a majority of whom embrace “socialism”—believe it’s not. Most of all, the challenge to exceptionalism is a response to Trump.

The generational divide is evident in polls. A 2017 Pew Research Center survey found that Americans over the age of 65 were 37 points more likely to say the “U.S. stands above all other countries in the world” than that “there are other countries that are better than the U.S.” Americans under 30 split in the opposite direction. By a margin of 16 points, they said some other countries were better. A similar divide separates liberals and conservatives. While conservatives affirm America’s superiority by a margin of almost 10 to one, liberals reject it by more than two to one.

Part of it is much of the Left talking about Trump's presidency as having fascist tendencies. Including AOC herself, someone who sometimes seems surprisingly thoughtful for people in politics.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

It's hard to completely fault Trump for this considering the separation policy was put in place by the Democrats, not the Republicans.

So how much do you fault him for?

No idea. But, when illegals are arrested for being illegal, they have to put the kid somewhere. That's what the Democrats said and put in place.

But you shouldn't throw away the records of where the kid is.

An appropriate punishment would be throwing away the identity of the person who did it. They lose all property, bank accounts, their citizenship etc.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

It's not illegal to apply for asylum at the border.

It is to do it fraudulently. "Asylum" is just a ploy to facilitate illegal migration, just like in Europe. You and other open-border types know that as well as anyone, but won't admit it.

Sorry, but gangs have made such a mess of central America that a lot of the asylum requests are legitimate. People are fleeing attempts to force them to join the gangs. The fact that the persecution isn't from a state actor is irrelevant.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

It's not illegal to apply for asylum at the border.

It is to do it fraudulently. "Asylum" is just a ploy to facilitate illegal migration, just like in Europe. You and other open-border types know that as well as anyone, but won't admit it.

In America, people are considered innocent until proven guilty.

If you can prove beyond a reasonable doubt that an asylum seeker lied on their application, then you can say they did something illegal. But if all they did was show up at the border and apply for entry, that's not a crime no matter how much it upsets some folks.

I agree that we have to modernize our immigration and work permit system, especially considering how easy it is these days for people to travel thousands of miles and cross multiple borders. But I don't see immigrants as a threat to our way of life or destined to be burdens on our society. They're just people like my grandfather, coming to America for a chance to improve their lives and that of their children. And we have plenty of room, especially where I live.

With open borders they would be a threat to our way of life because there would be too many of them. In moderation, though, they're a good thing. Immigration selects for superior individuals. (On the other hand, substantial emigration is very bad for a place. If you see a lot of emigration expect the place to turn into a shithole.)

 

[Loren Pechtel]

We have Help Wanted signs all over town. Now that Trump has cut the H-1B visa program, all those folks from other countries wanting to work in the US can't get to the jobs that need them. So if you're willing to provide transportation, sure, send them up.

***ETA: this should probably go into the Immigrant Concentration Camps thread. Any follow up of mine will be posted there.

Are you that out of touch with reality?!?!

H-1Bs are for skilled immigrants with degrees, the people showing up at the southern border are not such. Less H-1Bs says nothing about whether you have jobs for the refugees.

Personally, I partially agree with cutting back on H-1Bs. There has been a huge amount of abuse, large numbers of H-1Bs were simply a way of undercutting US wages and not due to true need. Somehow I doubt His Flatulence has done a good job of sorting the wheat from the chaff, though. Now, the deliberate slow-rolling of H-4s (work visas for the spouses of H-1Bs) is another matter, there's no reason for it.

(Note that while we don't hear much about there's also a lot of abuse with J-1s. Even when dirty employers are caught they get a slap on the wrist with a wet noodle.)

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Fox News is demanding AOC apologize to America for her hateful fear mongering propaganda of Trump running concentration camps.

In other news, Faux Noise reported that the sun rose in the west.

Remember the recent thread on here from finding that the majority of "news" on Faux Noise was false? (And that takes effort given how much news is obvious.)

 

[Loren Pechtel]

It doesn't matter where they make their request so long as it's legal for them to make it there. Which means it doesn't matter if they request entry from their home countries or at the US border. There's a process, and they are following it.

Just to note here that the only way to apply for asylum is to do so after crossing the border. It cannot be done in their home country or anywhere else. I think that would be a good case for changing the rules.

False. The proper way to apply for asylum is at a point of entry.

However, His Flatulence went to a policy of slow-rolling or outright denial of treaty obligations so the asylum seekers switched to an approach of sneaking across and then surrendering.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I know how it works in my state, and debt collectors can legally garnish your wages and/or bank accounts and attach liens to your property.

Whether or not paying off the minimum makes sense depends on the terms of the loan. For example, when I was paying off my student debt, there was no advantage in paying it off early - the total amount you paid was identical. On the otherhand, it did make sense to pay off my mortgage early, since it reduced the overall payments.

Not to mention many of those people had to get co-signers, usually parents or grandparents, to help them get their loans. Stop payment and the lender goes after the parents or grandparents. And why aren't student loans eligible for bankruptcy?

Yeah, this is what happens if you don't pay--they go after the cosigner.

However, there's a very good reason they aren't eligible for bankruptcy--if they were you would see a lot of strategic bankruptcies. The pain of a bankruptcy on your record is nowhere near the pain of paying back large student loans.

 

[Arctish]

We have Help Wanted signs all over town. Now that Trump has cut the H-1B visa program, all those folks from other countries wanting to work in the US can't get to the jobs that need them. So if you're willing to provide transportation, sure, send them up.

***ETA: this should probably go into the Immigrant Concentration Camps thread. Any follow up of mine will be posted there.

Are you that out of touch with reality?!?!

H-1Bs are for skilled immigrants with degrees, the people showing up at the southern border are not such. Less H-1Bs says nothing about whether you have jobs for the refugees.

I am very much in touch with reality. The reality where I live is those H-1B visa holders work as waiters, housekeepers, banquet chefs, souvenir store clerks, front desk clerks, fish processors, etc., and most have second jobs, too. H-1B visa holders in other states do similar work (I met one from Jamaica working in a gas station convenience store outside Yellowstone earlier this month). Some have degrees and some are still in college. Some have specialized skills like picking crabmeat. None of them need their degrees to perform the work they do.

If you can ring up sales on a cash register, scrub a toilet, or clean a fish, you can do the work the H-1B visa holders do.

Personally, I partially agree with cutting back on H-1Bs. There has been a huge amount of abuse, large numbers of H-1Bs were simply a way of undercutting US wages and not due to true need. Somehow I doubt His Flatulence has done a good job of sorting the wheat from the chaff, though. Now, the deliberate slow-rolling of H-4s (work visas for the spouses of H-1Bs) is another matter, there's no reason for it.

(Note that while we don't hear much about there's also a lot of abuse with J-1s. Even when dirty employers are caught they get a slap on the wrist with a wet noodle.)

I agree that the Trump Administration has done a piss-poor job of determining how many H-1B visas to make available, and who to give them to. That's par for the course with this President. And I agree that employers knowingly violating the law get off too easy. But I don't agree we were handing out too many work visas. It's not easy to fine tune the program due to the natural rise and fall of consumer demand, but having jobs go unfilled benefits no one.

 

[steve_bank]

For decades tech companies have been bringing in H1B engineers that work below market value.

Technically they only use them to fill jobs that can't be filled by Americans. They get around it by posting jobs with qualifications no one can meet, then bring someone in under the radar.

As to AOC she continues to show she is just an inexperienced ideologue with little actual knowledge.

 

[lpetrich]

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on Twitter: "This President needs to be impeached." / Twitter - 75.4K Retweets 344.4K Likes as of this writing
AOC herself has 4.4M Followers

Angela Belcamino on Twitter: "@AOC Donald Trump has over 60 million "followers" and can't get this many likes on a tweet. The majority of America wants impeachment. The majority did not vote for this mess." / Twitter

 

[Trausti]

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on Twitter: "This President needs to be impeached." / Twitter - 75.4K Retweets 344.4K Likes as of this writing
AOC herself has 4.4M Followers

Angela Belcamino on Twitter: "@AOC Donald Trump has over 60 million "followers" and can't get this many likes on a tweet. The majority of America wants impeachment. The majority did not vote for this mess." / Twitter

Base policy on the number of likes for a tweet. That's infallible logic right there.

 

[Half-Life]

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on Twitter: "This President needs to be impeached." / Twitter - 75.4K Retweets 344.4K Likes as of this writing
AOC herself has 4.4M Followers

Angela Belcamino on Twitter: "@AOC Donald Trump has over 60 million "followers" and can't get this many likes on a tweet. The majority of America wants impeachment. The majority did not vote for this mess." / Twitter

In the other thread, I was called out for citing youtube comments as credibility. But here you are, citing Twitter likes as credibility. That tweet even says Trump can't get that many likes, which implies Trump is only right when he gets likes.

 

[ZiprHead]

Another example of Derec pulling the ladder up behind him.

I never said I want to end immigration altogether. But it needs to be legal and based on reasonable standards. Not the chaos of 100,000s of people flooding the border every month.

Funny how the "reasonable standards" are the ones that got you in but not others.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Another example of Derec pulling the ladder up behind him.

I never said I want to end immigration altogether. But it needs to be legal and based on reasonable standards. Not the chaos of 100,000s of people flooding the border every month.

Funny how the "reasonable standards" are the ones that got you in but not others.

Pffft. Economic migrants.

 

[lpetrich]

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on Twitter: "Warning: The Trump admin is expected to begin ICE raids across the country TOMORROW, targeting people for round up. NOW is the time for us to come together: - Check in w/ your neighbors - Share “Know Your Rights” info - If you see ICE, report to @UNITEDWEDREAM 1-844-363-1423 https://t.co/UgWK0Km3sl" / Twitter
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on Twitter: "Please share this info widely & make sure your neighbors have it. If your home can be a safe space or haven for others, let your neighbors and community know - even if it’s just to relax in the stress of this time. Plan, prepare, + protect our neighbors. https://t.co/IXow1nTO4s" / Twitter
- Lots of stuff about legal rights, like the 5th Amendment, wanting an arrest warrant, not letting anyone in, and the like.
But pResident tRump recently backed off from those raids for the next two weeks.

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on Twitter: "The GOP has supported building mass concentration camps on the southern border. Kids & families are dying. Now they want money for more - w/ ZERO negotiation on how $ is spent. We can’t do that. They‘ve shown that when they get more money, they build more camps. #CloseTheCamps https://t.co/DYhXuU9Crz" / Twitter noting Congresswoman Rashida Tlaib on Twitter: ""We cannot turn our backs on the abuses taking place on our own soil, executed by our own government." A joint statement from @RepPressley, @Ilhan, @RepAOC, & I. #NotOneDollar https://t.co/Mdw7ezmBct" / Twitter

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on Twitter: "Reminder this admin is CHOOSING to round up refugees seeking asylum, fighting to not give children toothpaste or soap & making people sleep on dirt floors. They say it’s bc of a lack of . You know what saves money? Not putting masses of people in internment in the first place." / Twitter

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on Twitter: "#CloseTheCamps https://t.co/FL4KV3sLqk" / Twitter noting Erica L. Green on Twitter: "“Children as young as 7 and 8, many of them wearing clothes caked with snot and tears, are caring for infants they’ve just met.Toddlers without diapers are relieving themselves in their pants. Teenage mothers are wearing clothes stained with breast milk.” https://t.co/bDLkMyRiCT" / Twitter
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on Twitter: "When a powerful entity is trying to grow a system of human rights abuse (which is what this is) it’s on ALL of us, from smallest to biggest, to throw sand in the gears and stop it. We cannot be compliant with child abuse. These judges are astounded at the argument for it https://t.co/8oYxndP9OA" / Twitter noting NowThis on Twitter: "A Trump official tried to argue that detained children don’t need soap, toothbrushes, or beds to be ‘safe and sanitary’ while in Border Patrol custody https://t.co/sRFPZsDbwy" / Twitter